Yeah, not seeing red lights isn't an excuse to rear end a car.
Also on some cars that we're behind, it's literally impossible to tell if they are braking or not because your headlights light them up like they're on, and the sun washes out the lights during the day.
I have to say, people who claim to have mad driving skills because they learnt on a farm (especially as little kids) really bother me
I mean you've probably got some valuable off-roading skills there, but driving in a paddock is easy. No traffic signals, no other cars, low speeds, minimal visual distractions...even the road into town is a cakewalk. I have quite a few friends who learnt to drive out in the sticks, and when they moved to a real city that had more than one set of traffic lights and multilane roads, they were absolutely terrifying to be in a car with. Couldn't merge properly, changed lanes like they were trying get themselves killed, bewildered and enraged by dedicated turning lanes and roundabouts... gah. They improved after a while, but the fact remains that it requires a lot more skill to drive well in a busy city than anywhere else.
People around here go out to rural areas to take their driving test if they want an easy ride of it *shrug*
Well if you are in part referring to my post where I mentioned I'd learned to drive on the farm I would say that I never claimed to have 'mad skills' or anything of the sort. My point was that I'd already learned to drive well before any formal testing or road use was required, whereas most of my urban friends (small town or large city) appeared to have never driven a vehicle at all prior to starting the licence process in their 20s. Your experiences with rural drivers is one thing, but to counter, I've found my urban trained friends to be generally rather poor drivers in town or inter city, mainly on the basis that they lack confidence, which may be attributed to their often later in life and hesitant learning process.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my 15 year record of no accidents or infringements in the three countries I've driven in more than incidentally. I don't think this means I'm a great driver, on the contrary I'm pretty average
Sigh. We do it for the same reason every truck driver ever does it. Because there's less wear on the brake pads and rotors. And, no, it doesn't cause any additional, measurable wear to the transmission.
When I use my brake to slow down, my brake lights turn on, indicating to the car behind me clearly that I'm slowing down.
When you play games to avoid using the brakes, do the brake lights still go on?
It isn't "playing games"
and you will slow down much slower than if you were using the brakes.
So if they hit you, odds are they were going to hit you anyway
All right, so in the off chance that I need to slam on my brakes, there is no space next to me to change lanes, and there is no one behind me who will hit me, what is the difference in stopping distance between braking and engine braking?
I think its going to be pretty nominal.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
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The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
When I use my brake to slow down, my brake lights turn on, indicating to the car behind me clearly that I'm slowing down.
When you play games to avoid using the brakes, do the brake lights still go on?
It isn't "playing games"
and you will slow down much slower than if you were using the brakes.
So if they hit you, odds are they were going to hit you anyway
All right, so in the off chance that I need to slam on my brakes, there is no space next to me to change lanes, and there is no one behind me who will hit me, what is the difference in stopping distance between braking and engine braking?
I think its going to be pretty nominal.
what
what do you even mean
do you mean slamming it into 1st to brake in an emergency situation? because if so that is monumentally retarded, and no-one said anything along the lines of that being what to do.
Engine braking is used when approaching a give way or a stop light, to shed speed before actually braking.
You know you can engine brake an automatic car right?
Shhh. Man, don't you know an automatic drives for you? You have no control and can't do anything fancy like "engine brake" or "accelerate" or "Turn corners".
Seriously I've lurked here for probobly 5 years, and shrike, I don't think I've ever seen someone so out of line on ignorance as you are, and on something so stupid as a manual transmission.
Here is a clue - the ammount of torque you are applying to the front or rear wheels is an important factor in maintaining traction, and control over your vehicle, the automatic transmission provides only an approximation of this, through an intermidiary that looks more or less like a fluid driven hellraiser cube. In short, your delivery of power is at the whim of a simple mechanical computer, and it's not smart or robust enough to always be in the correct gear to get you out of trouble.
You have done nothing in this entire thread aside from illustrate in writing how awful you are on the road, along with half the people circlejerking about enforced speed limits pushed on people who don't need them to drive responsibly, while espousing your hatred for various dangers and behavior that your own ignorant style of vehicle operation directly causes.
Seriously, I see another nerf herf derf speed limit in the passing lane post I might vomit. Way to be completely out of touch with reality, and profusely prolific about it in text.
Get educated before you spout off about something, my word.
I don't even drive a manual transmission car right now for the record, I'm just not totally ignorant as to how they function, and am ABLE to drive one well, because I bothered to learn how they operate, instead of just spouting off misinformation and rage about people who also decided to pick up this skill. Seriously, two things I'm seeing everywhere in this thread are pretty much the brightest red flags when identifying a poor driver in this thread-
1) they don't mind giving up control of thier own vehicle to an automatic system they have limited control over.
2) They don't even understand the systems they already have in the vehicle they currently operate, and actively dislike that people do.
There is a class of driver that decided perhaps more intimate knowledge of the multi-ton death machine they are driving around at 60mph was important to glean. You did not decide this. Yet you feel you can judge this descision from your position of complete ignorance.
Meanwhile you sit getting into arguments with people who obviously know more about the vehicle you push around every day than you do, because you CHOOSE to remain ignorant out of some misguided hatred of controlling your cars own torque output? You think this makes any of you seem more intelligent / informed?
It's always funny to see people attacked because they bothered to pick up a skill you were too ignorant/lazy/dumb to develop. And yeah, people who cba to learn stick or even understand the concept of power transmission on the vehicle they regularly drive around, when there is every opportunity to do so? Yeah That classifies as dumb.
I only hate people who ignore the rules of the road or don't signal properly. It's almost wasted technology. This automatic/transmission debate can go to hell.
There should be new technology to replace cars altogether.
Seriously I've lurked here for probobly 5 years, and shrike, I don't think I've ever seen someone so out of line on ignorance as you are, and on something so stupid as a manual transmission.
Here is a clue - the ammount of torque you are applying to the front or rear wheels is an important factor in maintaining traction, and control over your vehicle, the automatic transmission provides only an approximation of this, through an intermidiary that looks more or less like a fluid driven hellraiser cube. In short, your delivery of power is at the whim of a simple mechanical computer, and it's not smart or robust enough to always be in the correct gear to get you out of trouble.
You have done nothing in this entire thread aside from illustrate in writing how awful you are on the road, along with half the people circlejerking about enforced speed limits pushed on people who don't need them to drive responsibly, while espousing your hatred for various dangers and behavior that your own ignorant style of vehicle operation directly causes.
Seriously, I see another nerf herf derf speed limit in the passing lane post I might vomit. Way to be completely out of touch with reality, and profusely prolific about it in text.
Get educated before you spout off about something, my word.
I don't even know who you are talking to here. You are attributing some strange fucking shit to me I've never said.
You also just have the weirdest ideas about driving an automatic.
You know, maybe just when you try and paint people who bothered to learn manual transmissions as somehow ignorant with your flippant comments when you are obviously the one totally ignorant of how your own vehicle operates outside 'derrr me press pedal and gooooooo!!!!!'
And if I attributed anything you didn't say to you, I'm not sorry, because the ignorant in this thread all melts together into one big steaming pile as far as I'm concerned, and you're still pouring something into it.
But you know, hey, keep hating on all those 'hipsters' who decided to educate themselves as to how vehicles work fools. Just know it includes everyone who delivers every good to every store you ever buy.
You know, maybe just when you try and paint people who bothered to learn manual transmissions as somehow ignorant with your flippant comments when you are obviously the one totally ignorant of how your own vehicle operates outside 'derrr me press pedal and gooooooo!!!!!'
And if I attributed anything you didn't say to you, I'm not sorry, because the ignorant in this thread all melts together into one big steaming pile as far as I'm concerned, and you're still pouring something into it.
But you know, hey, keep hating on all those 'hipsters' who decided to educate themselves as to how vehicles work fools. Just know it includes everyone who delivers every good to every store you ever buy.
I don't think anyone is calling you ignorant.
I think we are making fun of how much importance you place in minor, potentially even imperceptible, differences in "performance".
It doesn't help your case when you say hilariously crazy shit like an automatic making you not in control of the car.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
See, and right there, with that post, you've illustrated you are ignorant of the tangent topic simply because you don't understand how either form of transmission actually works.
Go read wikipedia or howstuffworks.com for around 30 minutes, test drive a manual transmission car, and come back, so you can actually reply with non-ignorance and first hand information.
Hillariously crazy is how ignorant you ARE about the differences between the two styles of gearbox you are attempting to discuss, and saying people who know stick are somehow crazy when they understand the differences in an obviously much more clear way than you do.
Guess what, when someone tells me thier stick shift car has more direct control over throttle, speed, and handling, they are correct, and saying otherwise is simply painting you as more and more ignorant for as long as you persist in your idiocy.
Ohh, there's differences. They are just incredibly small and unimportant ones.
When you talk about "more direct control' and blah blah blah, you make it sound like it might actually matter for the vast vast majority of driving anyone does.
Yeah, again, obviously never even bothered to figure out how either gearbox actually works did you. Seriously, go drive one, then you will be qualified to at least comment. If you think the difference between an auto and a manual is small and inconsequential, go TRY AND DRIVE ONE. You will quickly learn otherwise, or, and this is what I expect will happen to you, narp narp, it's too hard, I don't understand why it's so jerky, wah, wah, then give up and go back to whatever tardy daily pattern you typically hurr durr your way through.
reddeath on
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
You know, maybe just when you try and paint people who bothered to learn manual transmissions as somehow ignorant with your flippant comments when you are obviously the one totally ignorant of how your own vehicle operates outside 'derrr me press pedal and gooooooo!!!!!'
And if I attributed anything you didn't say to you, I'm not sorry, because the ignorant in this thread all melts together into one big steaming pile as far as I'm concerned, and you're still pouring something into it.
But you know, hey, keep hating on all those 'hipsters' who decided to educate themselves as to how vehicles work fools. Just know it includes everyone who delivers every good to every store you ever buy.
I don't think anyone is calling you ignorant.
I think we are making fun of how much importance you place in minor, potentially even imperceptible, differences in "performance".
It doesn't help your case when you say hilariously crazy shit like an automatic making you not in control of the car.
Dude, you seriously making yourself sound goddamn retarded.
A minor and imperceptible differences in performance? Really?! If that's the case then how come every Motorsport out there, sanes drag racing and mud car racing(which doesn't even have a transmission), uses a gear box that allows the driver to choose their desire gears?
Don't you have any concept on the importance of having control on where you are at on the powerband with regards to your ability to efficiently control your car through corners?
A traditional automatic transmission gives you no control over the powerband, hell most cars with an auto doesn't even get you a tachometer. Having that control means a lot whenever you're really trying have your car perform. Being able to be in a selected gear and have it stay there, no matter the conditions is a god send. An automatic transmission is programmed to shift under fixed parameters (mostly towards max fuel economy), so while the automatic transmission is forcing you to shift up (disrupting the balance of the car) when you really want to stay in a lower gear, in a manual transmission you can stay in that gear until your engine blows.
Yes there is DSG transmission and CVT and all sorts of other acronyms. DSG is truly a replacement for the traditional manual transmission, but have you ever gotten one of these things serviced? It costs a frigging ton and I rather have less efficient shifting and spend a lot less servicing a traditional manual transmission.
Does any of this matter for the average joe who spends 10's of thousand of dollars on something that, as far as they're concern, runs on 'magic'? No, it doesn't. But saying that a slushbox gives you the same amount of control over you car as a manual transmission is utter false. There is no arguing that fact, the sole purpose of an automatic transmission is to trade away performance for convenience.
Yeah, again, obviously never even bothered to figure out how either gearbox actually works did you. Seriously, go drive one, then you will be qualified to at least comment. If you think the difference between an auto and a manual is small and inconsequential, go TRY AND DRIVE ONE. You will quickly learn otherwise, or, and this is what I expect will happen to you, narp narp, it's too hard, I don't understand why it's so jerky, wah, wah, then give up and go back to whatever tardy daily pattern you typically hurr durr your way through.
I've driven both. Manual is more work for no real advantage in normal everyday driving.
People don't drag race or off-road to work or to school or to the grocery store.
Dude, you seriously making yourself sound goddamn retarded.
A minor and imperceptible differences in performance? Really?! If that's the case then how come every Motorsport out there, sanes drag racing and mud car racing(which doesn't even have a transmission), uses a gear box that allows the driver to choose their desire gears?
Don't you have any concept on the importance of having control on where you are at on the powerband with regards to your ability to efficiently control your car through corners?
A traditional automatic transmission gives you no control over the powerband, hell most cars with an auto doesn't even get you a tachometer. Having that control means a lot whenever you're really trying have your car perform. Being able to be in a selected gear and have it stay there, no matter the conditions is a god send. An automatic transmission is programmed to shift under fixed parameters (mostly towards max fuel economy), so while the automatic transmission is forcing you to shift up (disrupting the balance of the car) when you really want to stay in a lower gear, in a manual transmission you can stay in that gear until your engine blows.
Yes there is DSG transmission and CVT and all sorts of other acronyms. DSG is truly a replacement for the traditional manual transmission, but have you ever gotten one of these things serviced? It costs a frigging ton and I rather have less efficient shifting and spend a lot less servicing a traditional manual transmission.
Does any of this matter for the average joe who spends 10's of thousand of dollars on something that, as far as they're concern, runs on 'magic'? No, it doesn't. But saying that a slushbox gives you the same amount of control over you car as a manual transmission is utter false. There is no arguing that fact, the sole purpose of an automatic transmission is to trade away performance for convenience.
See, the thing is, none of this actually matters for someone commuting to work or driving to a friend's house or whatever else the vast majority of people actually do with their cars on a regular basis.
Seriously, two things I'm seeing everywhere in this thread are pretty much the brightest red flags when identifying a poor driver in this thread-
1) they don't mind giving up control of thier own vehicle to an automatic system they have limited control over.
2) They don't even understand the systems they already have in the vehicle they currently operate, and actively dislike that people do.
These two things have nothing to do with how well someone drives. At all. Of all the stupid statements flaoting around in this thread you've been complaining about, this is quite possibly the dumbest one in here :?
Obviously a lie. If you'd driven both you'd understand exactly what the extra control buys you. Unless you gave up before you actually learned to properly operate the stickshift vehicle.
'Powerband' isn't just a wank word, It's a technical word describing the behavior of your internal combustion engine. Perhaps if you do a bit more reading, you will understand how having absolutely no say in where you are in your 'powerband' could potentially be dangerous.
Example - In my charger srt8, which is an automatic, I've noticed it persistently changes between 2nd and 3rd gear around one particular curve on my way home from work. This is not normally a problem, but when it is raining(and thusly snowing, or the sun is looking at me funny), this shift, simply occuring, causes a loss of traction due to the drivetrain upset from a shift. This behavior will only occur in a vehicle with an automatic transmission, because nobody shifts from 2nd to 3rd at the apex of a turn, because shit like that makes you spin out, because it's bad, retarded driving.
The fact you don't grasp the basic idea and concept of NOT BEING ABLE TO DIRECTLY CONTROL YOUR DRIVETRAIN AS A NEGATIVE makes you appear more and more stupid as the thread progresses.
And sorry, if you don't believe the willingness to give up control of your vehicle, and a total lack of understanding as to how it operates effects the quality of a driver, you are seriously developmentally disabled. It surprises me you were able to drag your mongloid junk-stinking paw over the keyboard articulately enough to slap out a response if you don't think those two things matter.
And nothing you just said there proves either of those points. For something like rally driving? Yeah, you'd absolutely have a point. If you're drving around like you're in a damn rally in your day to day life though someone should take your liscense from you.
Also? The whole over the top insult thing is cute and all but if you could knock it off that'd be awesome.
How about start showing some basic evidence of cognition and I might stop thinking of you as a lesser form of life because you never bothered to get educated before spouting your moronic opinions?
And I'll tell you this right now, I have NO motivation to be polite in the face of your abject stupidity considering the length of time I lurked before, I will likely go right back to doing it after addressing your distressing and seemingly limitless ignorance on this subject.
People sure do love to be on bandwagons, seemingly the more idiotic the better.
And I agree with you, but you could die at the bottom of a well for all I care. I'm not here to apologize for being crass in the face of amazing idiocy, only to call out said amazing idiocy in the most hateful way possible, then vanish into the ether. Thanks for your concern, I'm glad you aren't a dumbshit on the road like these people.
How about start showing some basic evidence of cognition and I might stop thinking of you as a lesser form of life because you never bothered to get educated before spouting your moronic opinions?
And I'll tell you this right now, I have NO motivation to be polite in the face of your abject stupidity considering the length of time I lurked before, I will likely go right back to doing it after addressing your distressing and seemingly limitless ignorance on this subject.
People sure do love to be on bandwagons, seemingly the more idiotic the better.
Hah, wow. Do you realize that until I had to call you out on your bullshit I hadn't participated in the asinine automatic vs manual debate at all? I guess forum names, avatars and sigs aren't enough for you to differentiate identities :?
I'm not the one who stated that not being intimately familiar with driving a stick indicates someone is a bad driver. So until you can actually back that up? Stop hypocritically accusing others of being ignorant.
Obviously a lie. If you'd driven both you'd understand exactly what the extra control buys you. Unless you gave up before you actually learned to properly operate the stickshift vehicle.
'Powerband' isn't just a wank word, It's a technical word describing the behavior of your internal combustion engine. Perhaps if you do a bit more reading, you will understand how having absolutely no say in where you are in your 'powerband' could potentially be dangerous.
Example - In my charger srt8, which is an automatic, I've noticed it persistently changes between 2nd and 3rd gear around one particular curve on my way home from work. This is not normally a problem, but when it is raining(and thusly snowing, or the sun is looking at me funny), this shift, simply occuring, causes a loss of traction due to the drivetrain upset from a shift. This behavior will only occur in a vehicle with an automatic transmission, because nobody shifts from 2nd to 3rd at the apex of a turn, because shit like that makes you spin out, because it's bad, retarded driving.
The fact you don't grasp the basic idea and concept of NOT BEING ABLE TO DIRECTLY CONTROL YOUR DRIVETRAIN AS A NEGATIVE makes you appear more and more stupid as the thread progresses.
And sorry, if you don't believe the willingness to give up control of your vehicle, and a total lack of understanding as to how it operates effects the quality of a driver, you are seriously developmentally disabled. It surprises me you were able to drag your mongloid junk-stinking paw over the keyboard articulately enough to slap out a response if you don't think those two things matter.
Nice...so first if somebody disagrees with you it's because they obviously haven't driven both manual and automatic. Then, if they have, it's because they're just an idiot.
I drove a manual (actually two different manuals) for well over a decade. I drive an automatic now (and had driven one previously). Honestly, the difference is pretty minimal 99.9% of the time. The other 0.1%, it's not critical.
But who knows, maybe I just never learned to do it "properly."
I have to say, people who claim to have mad driving skills because they learnt on a farm (especially as little kids) really bother me
I mean you've probably got some valuable off-roading skills there, but driving in a paddock is easy. No traffic signals, no other cars, low speeds, minimal visual distractions...even the road into town is a cakewalk. I have quite a few friends who learnt to drive out in the sticks, and when they moved to a real city that had more than one set of traffic lights and multilane roads, they were absolutely terrifying to be in a car with. Couldn't merge properly, changed lanes like they were trying get themselves killed, bewildered and enraged by dedicated turning lanes and roundabouts... gah. They improved after a while, but the fact remains that it requires a lot more skill to drive well in a busy city than anywhere else.
People around here go out to rural areas to take their driving test if they want an easy ride of it *shrug*
Well if you are in part referring to my post where I mentioned I'd learned to drive on the farm I would say that I never claimed to have 'mad skills' or anything of the sort. My point was that I'd already learned to drive well before any formal testing or road use was required, whereas most of my urban friends (small town or large city) appeared to have never driven a vehicle at all prior to starting the licence process in their 20s. Your experiences with rural drivers is one thing, but to counter, I've found my urban trained friends to be generally rather poor drivers in town or inter city, mainly on the basis that they lack confidence, which may be attributed to their often later in life and hesitant learning process.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my 15 year record of no accidents or infringements in the three countries I've driven in more than incidentally. I don't think this means I'm a great driver, on the contrary I'm pretty average
You don't have to have claimed to have mad skills, my central point is that there's nothing particularly advantageous about learning to drive in a paddock or learning while you're still barely able to see over the steering wheel. It doesn't give you any more than a bit of a feel for being in a vehicle (at low speeds, and not on a normal driving surface!), which is not a major learning hurdle. And given the rather high rate of youth-vs-vehicle farm deaths and injuries (exaggerated by the existence of quad bikes, but still), I consider it a pretty risky idea to let under-15's behind the wheel of anything that isn't a pushbike. Cherry-picking anecdotes about your city-slicker friends and then speculating wildly about their alleged underlying failures of personality isn't going to change that.
Wait, my dad used to sit me on his lap and let me steer when I was... well, shit, let's just say it's one of the earliest memories I have in life. This eventually progressed to driving around the block sitting on a couple of phone books with him in the passenger seat.
Are you saying that at 18 years old, I wouldn't have had an appreciably superior command of the vehicle compared to someone who'd never driven until they started their license testing?
Obviously a lie. If you'd driven both you'd understand exactly what the extra control buys you. Unless you gave up before you actually learned to properly operate the stickshift vehicle.
'Powerband' isn't just a wank word, It's a technical word describing the behavior of your internal combustion engine. Perhaps if you do a bit more reading, you will understand how having absolutely no say in where you are in your 'powerband' could potentially be dangerous.
Example - In my charger srt8, which is an automatic, I've noticed it persistently changes between 2nd and 3rd gear around one particular curve on my way home from work. This is not normally a problem, but when it is raining(and thusly snowing, or the sun is looking at me funny), this shift, simply occuring, causes a loss of traction due to the drivetrain upset from a shift. This behavior will only occur in a vehicle with an automatic transmission, because nobody shifts from 2nd to 3rd at the apex of a turn, because shit like that makes you spin out, because it's bad, retarded driving.
The fact you don't grasp the basic idea and concept of NOT BEING ABLE TO DIRECTLY CONTROL YOUR DRIVETRAIN AS A NEGATIVE makes you appear more and more stupid as the thread progresses.
And sorry, if you don't believe the willingness to give up control of your vehicle, and a total lack of understanding as to how it operates effects the quality of a driver, you are seriously developmentally disabled. It surprises me you were able to drag your mongloid junk-stinking paw over the keyboard articulately enough to slap out a response if you don't think those two things matter.
Nice...so first if somebody disagrees with you it's because they obviously haven't driven both manual and automatic. Then, if they have, it's because they're just an idiot.
I drove a manual (actually two different manuals) for well over a decade. I drive an automatic now (and had driven one previously). Honestly, the difference is pretty minimal 99.9% of the time. The other 0.1%, it's not critical.
But who knows, maybe I just never learned to do it "properly."
The big thing about everything he says is that he never says how or why that little bit of control one gains with a manual is in any way beneficial. Any question is just answered by more mouth foaming about ignorance, which I expect will be his response when I inquire as to what kind of psychopath needs to pass someone going the speed limit.
Also this argument is silly. What you should really be pushing for are meters that test if you have a BAC over a certain amount before you can start the vehicle if you are a new driver (of any age), and then retest in 5 minutes.
The cost to install them would be ginormous, but the tech does exist.
Also anyone that's driven a manual knows that automatics sometimes do stupid things, as does electronic assist steering, traction control, and a million other features that cars have these days. But you compensate for the stupid so that you keep the normally beneficial.
The only big difference between an automatic and a manual (once you get the hang of it) is that in town driving sucks in a manual... oh but you'll get better gas mileage.
Wait, my dad used to sit me on his lap and let me steer when I was... well, shit, let's just say it's one of the earliest memories I have in life. This eventually progressed to driving around the block sitting on a couple of phone books with him in the passenger seat.
Are you saying that at 18 years old, I wouldn't have had an appreciably superior command of the vehicle compared to someone who'd never driven until they started their license testing?
Perhaps. But not where it counts when it comes to some of the most important shit: traffic and lots of other shit going on
Which was, I gathered, The Cat's point. Driving around on country roads? That shits EASY. That's like the grade school of driving. The worst you get stuck with is windy roads, and that's only an issue in certain areas.
Wait, my dad used to sit me on his lap and let me steer when I was... well, shit, let's just say it's one of the earliest memories I have in life. This eventually progressed to driving around the block sitting on a couple of phone books with him in the passenger seat.
Are you saying that at 18 years old, I wouldn't have had an appreciably superior command of the vehicle compared to someone who'd never driven until they started their license testing?
Not enough for to matter. There's nothing inherently superior about someone who was let behind the wheel at a very young age, simple as that. Bragging about how you slid out of the womb and promptly parallel-parked your ass in the crib is silly.
No bragging intended, I just wanted to clarify that that was indeed what you were saying, because that's downright silly.
Someone who has been driving for many years naturally will have a quicker response time, and a better feel for things (ie. blind spots, braking distances).
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When I use my brake to slow down, my brake lights turn on, indicating to the car behind me clearly that I'm slowing down.
When you play games to avoid using the brakes, do the brake lights still go on?
It isn't "playing games"
and you will slow down much slower than if you were using the brakes.
So if they hit you, odds are they were going to hit you anyway
Also on some cars that we're behind, it's literally impossible to tell if they are braking or not because your headlights light them up like they're on, and the sun washes out the lights during the day.
Well if you are in part referring to my post where I mentioned I'd learned to drive on the farm I would say that I never claimed to have 'mad skills' or anything of the sort. My point was that I'd already learned to drive well before any formal testing or road use was required, whereas most of my urban friends (small town or large city) appeared to have never driven a vehicle at all prior to starting the licence process in their 20s. Your experiences with rural drivers is one thing, but to counter, I've found my urban trained friends to be generally rather poor drivers in town or inter city, mainly on the basis that they lack confidence, which may be attributed to their often later in life and hesitant learning process.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my 15 year record of no accidents or infringements in the three countries I've driven in more than incidentally. I don't think this means I'm a great driver, on the contrary I'm pretty average
Sigh. We do it for the same reason every truck driver ever does it. Because there's less wear on the brake pads and rotors. And, no, it doesn't cause any additional, measurable wear to the transmission.
All right, so in the off chance that I need to slam on my brakes, there is no space next to me to change lanes, and there is no one behind me who will hit me, what is the difference in stopping distance between braking and engine braking?
I think its going to be pretty nominal.
what
what do you even mean
do you mean slamming it into 1st to brake in an emergency situation? because if so that is monumentally retarded, and no-one said anything along the lines of that being what to do.
Engine braking is used when approaching a give way or a stop light, to shed speed before actually braking.
Shhh. Man, don't you know an automatic drives for you? You have no control and can't do anything fancy like "engine brake" or "accelerate" or "Turn corners".
Here is a clue - the ammount of torque you are applying to the front or rear wheels is an important factor in maintaining traction, and control over your vehicle, the automatic transmission provides only an approximation of this, through an intermidiary that looks more or less like a fluid driven hellraiser cube. In short, your delivery of power is at the whim of a simple mechanical computer, and it's not smart or robust enough to always be in the correct gear to get you out of trouble.
You have done nothing in this entire thread aside from illustrate in writing how awful you are on the road, along with half the people circlejerking about enforced speed limits pushed on people who don't need them to drive responsibly, while espousing your hatred for various dangers and behavior that your own ignorant style of vehicle operation directly causes.
Seriously, I see another nerf herf derf speed limit in the passing lane post I might vomit. Way to be completely out of touch with reality, and profusely prolific about it in text.
Get educated before you spout off about something, my word.
1) they don't mind giving up control of thier own vehicle to an automatic system they have limited control over.
2) They don't even understand the systems they already have in the vehicle they currently operate, and actively dislike that people do.
There is a class of driver that decided perhaps more intimate knowledge of the multi-ton death machine they are driving around at 60mph was important to glean. You did not decide this. Yet you feel you can judge this descision from your position of complete ignorance.
Meanwhile you sit getting into arguments with people who obviously know more about the vehicle you push around every day than you do, because you CHOOSE to remain ignorant out of some misguided hatred of controlling your cars own torque output? You think this makes any of you seem more intelligent / informed?
It's always funny to see people attacked because they bothered to pick up a skill you were too ignorant/lazy/dumb to develop. And yeah, people who cba to learn stick or even understand the concept of power transmission on the vehicle they regularly drive around, when there is every opportunity to do so? Yeah That classifies as dumb.
I only hate people who ignore the rules of the road or don't signal properly. It's almost wasted technology. This automatic/transmission debate can go to hell.
There should be new technology to replace cars altogether.
I don't even know who you are talking to here. You are attributing some strange fucking shit to me I've never said.
You also just have the weirdest ideas about driving an automatic.
They always are.
And if I attributed anything you didn't say to you, I'm not sorry, because the ignorant in this thread all melts together into one big steaming pile as far as I'm concerned, and you're still pouring something into it.
But you know, hey, keep hating on all those 'hipsters' who decided to educate themselves as to how vehicles work fools. Just know it includes everyone who delivers every good to every store you ever buy.
I don't think anyone is calling you ignorant.
I think we are making fun of how much importance you place in minor, potentially even imperceptible, differences in "performance".
It doesn't help your case when you say hilariously crazy shit like an automatic making you not in control of the car.
Go read wikipedia or howstuffworks.com for around 30 minutes, test drive a manual transmission car, and come back, so you can actually reply with non-ignorance and first hand information.
Hillariously crazy is how ignorant you ARE about the differences between the two styles of gearbox you are attempting to discuss, and saying people who know stick are somehow crazy when they understand the differences in an obviously much more clear way than you do.
Guess what, when someone tells me thier stick shift car has more direct control over throttle, speed, and handling, they are correct, and saying otherwise is simply painting you as more and more ignorant for as long as you persist in your idiocy.
When you talk about "more direct control' and blah blah blah, you make it sound like it might actually matter for the vast vast majority of driving anyone does.
It doesn't.
Dude, you seriously making yourself sound goddamn retarded.
A minor and imperceptible differences in performance? Really?! If that's the case then how come every Motorsport out there, sanes drag racing and mud car racing(which doesn't even have a transmission), uses a gear box that allows the driver to choose their desire gears?
Don't you have any concept on the importance of having control on where you are at on the powerband with regards to your ability to efficiently control your car through corners?
A traditional automatic transmission gives you no control over the powerband, hell most cars with an auto doesn't even get you a tachometer. Having that control means a lot whenever you're really trying have your car perform. Being able to be in a selected gear and have it stay there, no matter the conditions is a god send. An automatic transmission is programmed to shift under fixed parameters (mostly towards max fuel economy), so while the automatic transmission is forcing you to shift up (disrupting the balance of the car) when you really want to stay in a lower gear, in a manual transmission you can stay in that gear until your engine blows.
Yes there is DSG transmission and CVT and all sorts of other acronyms. DSG is truly a replacement for the traditional manual transmission, but have you ever gotten one of these things serviced? It costs a frigging ton and I rather have less efficient shifting and spend a lot less servicing a traditional manual transmission.
Does any of this matter for the average joe who spends 10's of thousand of dollars on something that, as far as they're concern, runs on 'magic'? No, it doesn't. But saying that a slushbox gives you the same amount of control over you car as a manual transmission is utter false. There is no arguing that fact, the sole purpose of an automatic transmission is to trade away performance for convenience.
I've driven both. Manual is more work for no real advantage in normal everyday driving.
People don't drag race or off-road to work or to school or to the grocery store.
See, the thing is, none of this actually matters for someone commuting to work or driving to a friend's house or whatever else the vast majority of people actually do with their cars on a regular basis.
These two things have nothing to do with how well someone drives. At all. Of all the stupid statements flaoting around in this thread you've been complaining about, this is quite possibly the dumbest one in here :?
'Powerband' isn't just a wank word, It's a technical word describing the behavior of your internal combustion engine. Perhaps if you do a bit more reading, you will understand how having absolutely no say in where you are in your 'powerband' could potentially be dangerous.
Example - In my charger srt8, which is an automatic, I've noticed it persistently changes between 2nd and 3rd gear around one particular curve on my way home from work. This is not normally a problem, but when it is raining(and thusly snowing, or the sun is looking at me funny), this shift, simply occuring, causes a loss of traction due to the drivetrain upset from a shift. This behavior will only occur in a vehicle with an automatic transmission, because nobody shifts from 2nd to 3rd at the apex of a turn, because shit like that makes you spin out, because it's bad, retarded driving.
The fact you don't grasp the basic idea and concept of NOT BEING ABLE TO DIRECTLY CONTROL YOUR DRIVETRAIN AS A NEGATIVE makes you appear more and more stupid as the thread progresses.
And sorry, if you don't believe the willingness to give up control of your vehicle, and a total lack of understanding as to how it operates effects the quality of a driver, you are seriously developmentally disabled. It surprises me you were able to drag your mongloid junk-stinking paw over the keyboard articulately enough to slap out a response if you don't think those two things matter.
Also? The whole over the top insult thing is cute and all but if you could knock it off that'd be awesome.
And I'll tell you this right now, I have NO motivation to be polite in the face of your abject stupidity considering the length of time I lurked before, I will likely go right back to doing it after addressing your distressing and seemingly limitless ignorance on this subject.
People sure do love to be on bandwagons, seemingly the more idiotic the better.
I agree with you, and you're making me look bad.
Hah, wow. Do you realize that until I had to call you out on your bullshit I hadn't participated in the asinine automatic vs manual debate at all? I guess forum names, avatars and sigs aren't enough for you to differentiate identities :?
I'm not the one who stated that not being intimately familiar with driving a stick indicates someone is a bad driver. So until you can actually back that up? Stop hypocritically accusing others of being ignorant.
Or drive at 60mph on city streets in the rain.
Nice...so first if somebody disagrees with you it's because they obviously haven't driven both manual and automatic. Then, if they have, it's because they're just an idiot.
I drove a manual (actually two different manuals) for well over a decade. I drive an automatic now (and had driven one previously). Honestly, the difference is pretty minimal 99.9% of the time. The other 0.1%, it's not critical.
But who knows, maybe I just never learned to do it "properly."
You don't have to have claimed to have mad skills, my central point is that there's nothing particularly advantageous about learning to drive in a paddock or learning while you're still barely able to see over the steering wheel. It doesn't give you any more than a bit of a feel for being in a vehicle (at low speeds, and not on a normal driving surface!), which is not a major learning hurdle. And given the rather high rate of youth-vs-vehicle farm deaths and injuries (exaggerated by the existence of quad bikes, but still), I consider it a pretty risky idea to let under-15's behind the wheel of anything that isn't a pushbike. Cherry-picking anecdotes about your city-slicker friends and then speculating wildly about their alleged underlying failures of personality isn't going to change that.
Are you saying that at 18 years old, I wouldn't have had an appreciably superior command of the vehicle compared to someone who'd never driven until they started their license testing?
The big thing about everything he says is that he never says how or why that little bit of control one gains with a manual is in any way beneficial. Any question is just answered by more mouth foaming about ignorance, which I expect will be his response when I inquire as to what kind of psychopath needs to pass someone going the speed limit.
Also this argument is silly. What you should really be pushing for are meters that test if you have a BAC over a certain amount before you can start the vehicle if you are a new driver (of any age), and then retest in 5 minutes.
The cost to install them would be ginormous, but the tech does exist.
Also anyone that's driven a manual knows that automatics sometimes do stupid things, as does electronic assist steering, traction control, and a million other features that cars have these days. But you compensate for the stupid so that you keep the normally beneficial.
The only big difference between an automatic and a manual (once you get the hang of it) is that in town driving sucks in a manual... oh but you'll get better gas mileage.
Perhaps. But not where it counts when it comes to some of the most important shit: traffic and lots of other shit going on
Which was, I gathered, The Cat's point. Driving around on country roads? That shits EASY. That's like the grade school of driving. The worst you get stuck with is windy roads, and that's only an issue in certain areas.
Not enough for to matter. There's nothing inherently superior about someone who was let behind the wheel at a very young age, simple as that. Bragging about how you slid out of the womb and promptly parallel-parked your ass in the crib is silly.
Someone who has been driving for many years naturally will have a quicker response time, and a better feel for things (ie. blind spots, braking distances).