SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Final fight talk:
I FUCKING DID IT. Oh my God. I thought I was going to fail again and then they started retreating. I FEEL SO GOOD. I KEPT IT ON HARD TOO. YAY. Thanks for the advice!
I FUCKING DID IT. Oh my God. I thought I was going to fail again and then they started retreating. I FEEL SO GOOD. I KEPT IT ON HARD TOO. YAY. Thanks for the advice!
Yay! Now soak in the ending!
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firewaterwordSatchitanandaPais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
How could you people skip the awesome music in the credits anyway?
Been humming that damn hymn like a loon for two days now...
I feel that since there are so many of you beating the game recently I will repost the Youtube Koopah posted earlier in the thread. It is not perfect but it gets most of the story correct.
A) When the Luteces grew a conscience, Comstock tried to have them killed and they became interdimensional beings
When they dragged Booker from his dimension into Comstock's he suddenly remembered both his actions and Comstock's, so his brain created new memories where none existed before, which is why he had no memory of his daughter or who actually made the "deal" with him.
#1 makes you wonder if when they became trans universal beings, the same thing happened in other universes. If so, then maybe some of their teleporting was just alternate versions of Luteces. Of course it wouldn't matter any since due to the Many Worlds Interpretation there would be an infinite number of Luteces that could easily traverse the multiverse.
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I don't know whether to dig into the last few pages and watch that video or just think about it by myself. The game feels like a private, unique journey. I'm not sure if I want to break that feeling.
I don't know whether to dig into the last few pages and watch that video or just think about it by myself. The game feels like a private, unique journey. I'm not sure if I want to break that feeling.
The game is very dependent on:
1) How much you pay attention.
2) Gathering up at least some of the voice recordings and watching at least some of the stereoscopes.
That is why I attribute most of the offsite "I dont get it. It is an ending that doesnt make sense" reviews to individuals who rushed through the game like it was Call of Duty.
Jubal77 on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I have finished the game.
Serious ending spoilers plus some neckbeard and screenshots.
The ending, objectively, starting from Rapture and the death of Songbird up to Booker getting baptized to death, starts good and consistent with the physics thing that keeps cropping up throughout the game, then gets weird after the lighthouse section, then begins to run into wibbly wobbly timey wimey Lost series "narrative box" territory, then confuses earlier sexual tension between Booker and Elizabeth by revealing Booker to be Elizabeth's father, her being Anna thusly renamed Elizabeth by Comstock who is actually Booker and then he gets murdered by his daughter and her time clones to end the cycle created by Lutece and Wounded Knee or somesuch which ends everything that happened in the game and invalidates everything you did, do and ever will do in this game forever.
If you think about it, everything you did in Columbia is rendered completely meaningless because it all gets erased utterly from time.
This game is amazing on a lot of levels, from combat to atmosphere and story and depth, and it is definitely one of the best games I have played in a while. But, you can't really ignore the bullshit final battle with the Vox airfleet (I died 3 times on Hard before I got it after having no real issues with any of the other fights since the Ghost battles in Emporia), some of the inconsistencies in themes and how they are sidelined in the end by phyiscs and multiverse overtures, how the game feels rushed story wise at the end with some baddies being inconsistent in their actual positioning compared to how they were supposed to be in the game (which is to say, some baddies were left to the end and seemed out of place or misused, like the Ghost and the Silent Boys or whatever they are called), and how the actual ending itself, which starts out with this:
And this:
And this:
And moves to this:
And this:
And this:
Becomes lol Booker is Comstock, we decided to make it you who was the real villain, your now dead by your daughter(s) hand(s) and everything you did is now chronologically meaningless, it's the multiverse's fault, Columbia was just a cool setting to tell a story that had nothing to do with Columbia and all it's jingoism and class struggle and the like ultimately, etc.
I have to wonder why, and what thought process went into taking all the great ideas and themes that went into this game and it's premise, and all the work and love and attention that went into Columbia as a city, and then have it all just become entirely meaningless because TIME PHYSICS YOU ARE YOUR OWN ENEMY THIS IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING.
Non spoiler TDLR; I liked the first part of the ending, and did not like the second part of the ending. If I had written it, it would have turned out differently. I think Ken Levine and his team took on way too many themes and dollars and expectations at once and had to cram it all together in five years, and made an almost perfect game out of it, which is incredible. I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
This whole experience has certainly been a thing.
+3
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Just beat the game really fantastic, it totally lived up to my expectations.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
I get everything about having to kill Booker-as-Comstock in order to prevent him from helping raise Columbia and eventually take Anna/Elizabeth. However, why would killing the Booker at the end accomplish this? It's not like ending-Booker is the same person as the Booker who accepts his Baptism and becomes Comstock. But it seems to imply exactly this, that if Elizabeth(s) don't drown Booker at the end, he'll turn into Comstock. I don't know, logically it just didn't make sense to me why they had to kill Booker at the end.
I don't know whether to dig into the last few pages and watch that video or just think about it by myself. The game feels like a private, unique journey. I'm not sure if I want to break that feeling.
The game is very dependent on:
1) How much you pay attention.
2) Gathering up at least some of the voice recordings and watching at least some of the stereoscopes.
That is why I attribute most of the offsite "I dont get it. It is an ending that doesnt make sense" reviews to individuals who rushed through the game like it was Call of Duty.
Ending:
I listened to quite a few of the voxphones and kinetoscopes. Not all of them, I didn't get the achievements unfortunately but I think probably an above average amount. I think the ending makes sense but there's so much to keep in my head that I'm having trouble.
Also holy shit the post-credit scene is a damn knife twist.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Also there was a hidden achievement for beating the game on Hard! So glad I kept trying!
Serious ending spoilers plus some neckbeard and screenshots.
The ending, objectively, starting from Rapture and the death of Songbird up to Booker getting baptized to death, starts good and consistent with the physics thing that keeps cropping up throughout the game, then gets weird after the lighthouse section, then begins to run into wibbly wobbly timey wimey Lost series "narrative box" territory, then confuses earlier sexual tension between Booker and Elizabeth by revealing Booker to be Elizabeth's father, her being Anna thusly renamed Elizabeth by Comstock who is actually Booker and then he gets murdered by his daughter and her time clones to end the cycle created by Lutece and Wounded Knee or somesuch which ends everything that happened in the game and invalidates everything you did, do and ever will do in this game forever.
If you think about it, everything you did in Columbia is rendered completely meaningless because it all gets erased utterly from time.
This game is amazing on a lot of levels, from combat to atmosphere and story and depth, and it is definitely one of the best games I have played in a while. But, you can't really ignore the bullshit final battle with the Vox airfleet (I died 3 times on Hard before I got it after having no real issues with any of the other fights since the Ghost battles in Emporia), some of the inconsistencies in themes and how they are sidelined in the end by phyiscs and multiverse overtures, how the game feels rushed story wise at the end with some baddies being inconsistent in their actual positioning compared to how they were supposed to be in the game (which is to say, some baddies were left to the end and seemed out of place or misused, like the Ghost and the Silent Boys or whatever they are called), and how the actual ending itself, which starts out with this:
And this:
And this:
And moves to this:
And this:
And this:
Becomes lol Booker is Comstock, we decided to make it you who was the real villain, your now dead by your daughter(s) hand(s) and everything you did is now chronologically meaningless, it's the multiverse's fault, Columbia was just a cool setting to tell a story that had nothing to do with Columbia and all it's jingoism and class struggle and the like ultimately, etc.
I have to wonder why, and what thought process went into taking all the great ideas and themes that went into this game and it's premise, and all the work and love and attention that went into Columbia as a city, and then have it all just become entirely meaningless because TIME PHYSICS YOU ARE YOUR OWN ENEMY THIS IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING.
Non spoiler TDLR; I liked the first part of the ending, and did not like the second part of the ending. If I had written it, it would have turned out differently. I think Ken Levine and his team took on way too many themes and dollars and expectations at once and had to cram it all together in five years, and made an almost perfect game out of it, which is incredible. I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
This whole experience has certainly been a thing.
^This probably best sums up my feelings towards the game.^
Too many themes at once, none adequately explored.
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Just beat the game really fantastic, it totally lived up to my expectations.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
I get everything about having to kill Booker-as-Comstock in order to prevent him from helping raise Columbia and eventually take Anna/Elizabeth. However, why would killing the Booker at the end accomplish this? It's not like ending-Booker is the same person as the Booker who accepts his Baptism and becomes Comstock. But it seems to imply exactly this, that if Elizabeth(s) don't drown Booker at the end, he'll turn into Comstock. I don't know, logically it just didn't make sense to me why they had to kill Booker at the end.
Another valid point; the game assumes through Elizabeth that Booker becoming Comstock as a commentary on human free will versus determinism is a sure bet; whether he takes the baptism or not he will become Comstock eventually and kidnap his own daughter.
Just beat the game really fantastic, it totally lived up to my expectations.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
I get everything about having to kill Booker-as-Comstock in order to prevent him from helping raise Columbia and eventually take Anna/Elizabeth. However, why would killing the Booker at the end accomplish this? It's not like ending-Booker is the same person as the Booker who accepts his Baptism and becomes Comstock. But it seems to imply exactly this, that if Elizabeth(s) don't drown Booker at the end, he'll turn into Comstock. I don't know, logically it just didn't make sense to me why they had to kill Booker at the end.
The game at several points:
Shows the ramifications of individuals being killed on different timelines. It causes a "tear". This is shown most blatantly with Chen. It is also shown through the nose bleeds that Booker experiences. The kind of paradox you describe happens in most games that visit dimension travel. In the end I just attribute the ending to "plugging the hole" as the Booker that you play ceremoniously dies during his baptism and thus stopping the divergence.
Also Core did you miss seeing the:
Big Daddy and Little Sister in Rapture?
Jubal77 on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Just beat the game really fantastic, it totally lived up to my expectations.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
I get everything about having to kill Booker-as-Comstock in order to prevent him from helping raise Columbia and eventually take Anna/Elizabeth. However, why would killing the Booker at the end accomplish this? It's not like ending-Booker is the same person as the Booker who accepts his Baptism and becomes Comstock. But it seems to imply exactly this, that if Elizabeth(s) don't drown Booker at the end, he'll turn into Comstock. I don't know, logically it just didn't make sense to me why they had to kill Booker at the end.
Another valid point; the game assumes through Elizabeth that Booker becoming Comstock as a commentary on human free will versus determinism is a sure bet; whether he takes the baptism or not he will become Comstock eventually and kidnap his own daughter.
Basically this point is a metaphor for Comstock's birth. They decided that they had to kill Comstock at this point in time. I'm not really sure of the specifics of the timelines though. When our Booker is drowned it seems like he had already undergone the baptism normally. It doesn't seem like the what we experienced actually happened on the timeline. In normal time travel plots you'd expect them to return to the actual event rather than some kind of metaphor, but maybe that's just the nature of Elizabeth's powers?
Maybe the point she brought us to is, for practical purposes, that point in time.
I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
Too true, the ending sure leaves a lot to be discussed.
Speaking of which, there is one thing that just occurred to me:
The smothering of Booker is an act done in order to stop the "birth" of Comstock but, aren't there a lot of Bookers? The sequence would seem to indicate that there are numerous Bookers following the path to the end, but by drowning the one the player's controlling is when the Annas/Elizabeths from the split lines start disappearing. Did all the Bookers finally converge into one entity at the very end to cause that or were they all just drowned out at the same time? I'd think it'd have to be one of the two since otherwise, the drowning of just one Booker wouldn't completely stop the events that come to pass.
+1
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
Other things about the game's story that I thought were a bit off:
Daisy Fitzroy kind of got shafted by just being a person who riles up the horde of disenfranchised and becoming a paranoid Stalin character and then getting killed off too early to actually provide the kind of moral counterbalance to Comstock that I expected she would at the end.
We never see Saltonstall even though he was an interesting selling point of the E3 2010 trailer and he was mentioned here and there in the game and eventually presumed killed and scalped by the Vox. He would have been a worthy adversary.
We never see the bounty hunter guy. What's up with that?
Why do we never get to see any parts of the city fall out of the sky? Would have been cool.
A younger presidential Comstock like we saw in earlier concepts of the game may have been a better choice for focusing more on a grounded, republican Columbia rather then a born again New Eden in the sky, and that that may have been a better way to go with the story's focus from the get go, so as not to stray too far into time and physics and more abstract concepts, away from the rest of the game's themes which fit in more with the spirit of Columbia as a city of contrasts and hyper Americanized hypocrisy.
I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
Too true, the ending sure leaves a lot to be discussed.
Speaking of which, there is one thing that just occurred to me:
The smothering of Booker is an act done in order to stop the "birth" of Comstock but, aren't there a lot of Bookers? The sequence would seem to indicate that there are numerous Bookers following the path to the end, but by drowning the one the player's controlling is when the Annas/Elizabeths from the split lines start disappearing. Did all the Bookers finally converge into one entity at the very end to cause that or were they all just drowned out at the same time? I'd think it'd have to be one of the two since otherwise, the drowning of just one Booker wouldn't completely stop the events that come to pass.
For me:
It is one of those weird issues with Dimension Travel paradoxes. They traveled to a time before the actual time divergence happened. And so this may mean that when they did so Booker became the Booker before he became Comstock or "sold my daughter for debt" Booker. So in essence he did become all other Bookers because none other existed at that point before the Baptism choice.
Jubal77 on
+1
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I think the ending was very satisfying regardless. I really really want to see where they go with this. I want more Bioshock.
+4
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Just beat the game really fantastic, it totally lived up to my expectations.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
I get everything about having to kill Booker-as-Comstock in order to prevent him from helping raise Columbia and eventually take Anna/Elizabeth. However, why would killing the Booker at the end accomplish this? It's not like ending-Booker is the same person as the Booker who accepts his Baptism and becomes Comstock. But it seems to imply exactly this, that if Elizabeth(s) don't drown Booker at the end, he'll turn into Comstock. I don't know, logically it just didn't make sense to me why they had to kill Booker at the end.
The game at several points:
Shows the ramifications of individuals being killed on different timelines. It causes a "tear". This is shown most blatantly with Chen. It is also shown through the nose bleeds that Booker experiences. The kind of paradox you describe happens in most games that visit dimension travel. In the end I just attribute the ending to "plugging the hole" as the Booker that you play ceremoniously dies during his baptism and thus stopping the divergence.
Also Core did you miss seeing the:
Big Daddy and Little Sister in Rapture?
I did see this and got a kick out of that whole part. I was beaming.
The Vox airfleet is attacking our airship and I've failed twice now. God damn motherfucking shit the songbird's cooldown timer needs to be less. This is super hard!
The huge zepplins should be your main priority as soon as they appear. If you stay towards the back of battlefield near where you enter, you can take down the zepplins with songbird as soon as they fly by before they can even launch anyone down. Just hunker down, watch both sides of the area and keep your eyes open. If you don't destroy them they will just keep launching an endless supply of patriots and mans.
If you take too long and they do launch patriots before you can hit them with songbird, use him on the floor of the arena to have him slam down and murder everything. His subsequent cooldown will end before the next round of patriots is launched, and then you can have him take out the zepplin.
Re: Last fight
I've tried this unsuccessfully, multiple times. At least on Hard, I don't believe it is possible to destroy the zeppelins before they launch patriots.
I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
Too true, the ending sure leaves a lot to be discussed.
Speaking of which, there is one thing that just occurred to me:
The smothering of Booker is an act done in order to stop the "birth" of Comstock but, aren't there a lot of Bookers? The sequence would seem to indicate that there are numerous Bookers following the path to the end, but by drowning the one the player's controlling is when the Annas/Elizabeths from the split lines start disappearing. Did all the Bookers finally converge into one entity at the very end to cause that or were they all just drowned out at the same time? I'd think it'd have to be one of the two since otherwise, the drowning of just one Booker wouldn't completely stop the events that come to pass.
For me:
It is one of those weird issues with Dimension Travel paradoxes. They traveled to a time before the actual time divergence happened. And so this may mean that when they did so Booker became the Booker before he became Comstock or "sold my daughter for debt" Booker. So in essence he did become all other Bookers because none other existed at that point before the Baptism choice.
Yeah, I can see that.
Also, I feel like the only one here who didn't have any major problems with the final fight. I kinda even enjoyed it a bit.
SciJo on
+1
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Just beat the game really fantastic, it totally lived up to my expectations.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
I get everything about having to kill Booker-as-Comstock in order to prevent him from helping raise Columbia and eventually take Anna/Elizabeth. However, why would killing the Booker at the end accomplish this? It's not like ending-Booker is the same person as the Booker who accepts his Baptism and becomes Comstock. But it seems to imply exactly this, that if Elizabeth(s) don't drown Booker at the end, he'll turn into Comstock. I don't know, logically it just didn't make sense to me why they had to kill Booker at the end.
The game at several points:
Shows the ramifications of individuals being killed on different timelines. It causes a "tear". This is shown most blatantly with Chen. It is also shown through the nose bleeds that Booker experiences. The kind of paradox you describe happens in most games that visit dimension travel. In the end I just attribute the ending to "plugging the hole" as the Booker that you play ceremoniously dies during his baptism and thus stopping the divergence.
Also Core did you miss seeing the:
Big Daddy and Little Sister in Rapture?
I did see this and got a kick out of that whole part. I was beaming.
I fucking loved that part. I think regardless of any issues with the plot, the point where you destroy the siphon onwards is a mindbending exhilarating experience that engaged me more adeptly than any other videogame plot has ever achieved.
+1
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
Too true, the ending sure leaves a lot to be discussed.
Speaking of which, there is one thing that just occurred to me:
The smothering of Booker is an act done in order to stop the "birth" of Comstock but, aren't there a lot of Bookers? The sequence would seem to indicate that there are numerous Bookers following the path to the end, but by drowning the one the player's controlling is when the Annas/Elizabeths from the split lines start disappearing. Did all the Bookers finally converge into one entity at the very end to cause that or were they all just drowned out at the same time? I'd think it'd have to be one of the two since otherwise, the drowning of just one Booker wouldn't completely stop the events that come to pass.
For me:
It is one of those weird issues with Dimension Travel paradoxes. They traveled to a time before the actual time divergence happened. And so this may mean that when they did so Booker became the Booker before he became Comstock or "sold my daughter for debt" Booker. So in essence he did become all other Bookers because none other existed at that point before the Baptism choice.
Yeah, I can see that.
Also, I feel like the only one here who didn't have any major problems with the final fight. I kinda even enjoyed it a bit.
When I was actually winning the final fight was crazy and fun.
But it took me awhile to get fast enough and not use the songbird's attack ineffectively. I'm so used to being cautious during combat and that is just not going to work for this fight.
I have absolutely no idea where people are picking up on "sexual tension" between Booker and Elizabeth. I don't remember one event even remotely suggesting that.
PSN ID : HBoxx
+3
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Also the ending:
Did anybody else flip out over how well animated the walkways were while moving from lighthouse to lighthouse? This game is so well made.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I have absolutely no idea where people are picking up on "sexual tension" between Booker and Elizabeth. I don't remember one event even remotely suggesting that.
Haven't heard that.
There is the one scene when she changes but it's glossed over pretty quickly. I don't think there is much, if any.
So I'm like 20 hour in and they're still introducing new enemy types.
The phonograph head dudes.
Told you I was savoring this!
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
To clarify some more:
The time and physics of the ending on it's own, barring a few mental gymnastics, is fine, even good. But, when you contrast it with the rest of the game on the whole, and it's setting and themes, it just doesn't quite fit right. Themes like racism and class struggle are more grounded in lived, real human experience and are known as consistent, measurable historical and social forces.
Time and the nature of reality is just as interesting if not more so but is much more abstract, subjective to a degree, open to interpretation, very complex and ultimately means more to what we might call God then it would mean to us, at least in terms of direct experience.
We don't experience time like it is presented here, and it leaves a strange taste in the mouth.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I have absolutely no idea where people are picking up on "sexual tension" between Booker and Elizabeth. I don't remember one event even remotely suggesting that.
Some of their dialogue.
The way their relationship evolves over time and becomes more intimate prior to Booker becoming aware of her as his daughter.
The bit with the corset in Comstock House after the tornado.
I have absolutely no idea where people are picking up on "sexual tension" between Booker and Elizabeth. I don't remember one event even remotely suggesting that.
event? maybe not, but interest was there
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
In Comstock House:
I snuck past all of them after I attempted to kill the first one you meet on the first floor and was denied and then had to fight... whatever the hell those people wearing Founder masks were. Fuck that place was the creepiest part of the game bar none; I felt like I was in an American McGee's Alice game for a moment and Elizabeth was Alice.
God those kids are creepy. I did a lot of sneaking and then running away in that area. No fucking way am I gonna stick around.
Are you referring to those statue like things that are triggered by the alarm guys? They are rather annoying to fight because they take so much damage. Though, I found that with my fully upgraded possession I could essentially one shot them because they'd just commit suicide after the possession runs out. Doesn't mean I fought any of them past the first sequence.
Though, is it even possible to avoid fighting them in that initial part? The alarm guy is standing right in the damn way of the button you HAVE to press.
The time and physics of the ending on it's own, barring a few mental gymnastics, is fine, even good. But, when you contrast it with the rest of the game on the whole, and it's setting and themes, it just doesn't quite fit right. Themes like racism and class struggle are more grounded in lived, real human experience and are known as consistent, measurable historical and social forces.
Time and the nature of reality is just as interesting if not more so but is much more abstract, subjective to a degree, open to interpretation, very complex and ultimately means more to what we might call God then it would mean to us, at least in terms of direct experience.
We don't experience time like it is presented here, and it leaves a strange taste in the mouth.
Well said sir. I guess the only response I could say to this would be:
Q: Why do you not want churches?
A: They will teach us to quarrel about God, as the Catholics and Protestants do on the Nez Perce Reservation, and other places. We do not want to learn that. We may quarrel with men sometimes about things here on earth, but we never quarrel about God. We do not want to learn that.
Chief Joseph
In the end I dispel the obvious paradoxes and take the game at face value. It is much easier that way and makes the game much more enjoyable.
RE End game mobs:
Those fucking masking wearing mofos. I went into that part of the game severely under equipped as I didnt refill my ammo and not having Elizabeth meant I had issues with that portion of the game. I just ended up sneaking past those fog horn mobs. And at the end when I turned around and there was the one looking at me in the face I had a serious, outloud, WTF moment.
Jubal77 on
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
I'm really glad the people who say "if it were me writing it, it sure would have been different!" because we sure would get a lot more terrible stories that way.
Are you the magic man?
+2
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
The time and physics of the ending on it's own, barring a few mental gymnastics, is fine, even good. But, when you contrast it with the rest of the game on the whole, and it's setting and themes, it just doesn't quite fit right. Themes like racism and class struggle are more grounded in lived, real human experience and are known as consistent, measurable historical and social forces.
Time and the nature of reality is just as interesting if not more so but is much more abstract, subjective to a degree, open to interpretation, very complex and ultimately means more to what we might call God then it would mean to us, at least in terms of direct experience.
We don't experience time like it is presented here, and it leaves a strange taste in the mouth.
This is kind of a cop-out but one of the themes of Columbia is Manifest Destiny :P
I mean Columbia's purpose seemed to have a strong basis in prophecy. One outcome of its actions, declaring war on the United States and maybe the world, is explicit early on. I think this 'destiny' ties in with the multiverse theme and I think the multiverse theme is a suitable 'truth' which lies behind the lie of Columbia and Comstock. You know, America isn't special. Our own timeline isn't special. This is how it really works, etc.
Posts
Yay! Now soak in the ending!
Been humming that damn hymn like a loon for two days now...
* - yay sarks! Good on ya.
Jesus Fucking Christ.
Cool game, might have to go through it again
The game is very dependent on:
2) Gathering up at least some of the voice recordings and watching at least some of the stereoscopes.
That is why I attribute most of the offsite "I dont get it. It is an ending that doesnt make sense" reviews to individuals who rushed through the game like it was Call of Duty.
If you think about it, everything you did in Columbia is rendered completely meaningless because it all gets erased utterly from time.
This game is amazing on a lot of levels, from combat to atmosphere and story and depth, and it is definitely one of the best games I have played in a while. But, you can't really ignore the bullshit final battle with the Vox airfleet (I died 3 times on Hard before I got it after having no real issues with any of the other fights since the Ghost battles in Emporia), some of the inconsistencies in themes and how they are sidelined in the end by phyiscs and multiverse overtures, how the game feels rushed story wise at the end with some baddies being inconsistent in their actual positioning compared to how they were supposed to be in the game (which is to say, some baddies were left to the end and seemed out of place or misused, like the Ghost and the Silent Boys or whatever they are called), and how the actual ending itself, which starts out with this:
And this:
And this:
And moves to this:
And this:
And this:
Becomes lol Booker is Comstock, we decided to make it you who was the real villain, your now dead by your daughter(s) hand(s) and everything you did is now chronologically meaningless, it's the multiverse's fault, Columbia was just a cool setting to tell a story that had nothing to do with Columbia and all it's jingoism and class struggle and the like ultimately, etc.
I have to wonder why, and what thought process went into taking all the great ideas and themes that went into this game and it's premise, and all the work and love and attention that went into Columbia as a city, and then have it all just become entirely meaningless because TIME PHYSICS YOU ARE YOUR OWN ENEMY THIS IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING.
Non spoiler TDLR; I liked the first part of the ending, and did not like the second part of the ending. If I had written it, it would have turned out differently. I think Ken Levine and his team took on way too many themes and dollars and expectations at once and had to cram it all together in five years, and made an almost perfect game out of it, which is incredible. I think this game will be discussed, remembered, loved for it's many merits and hated/questioned/pondered/even defended for it's ending for a long time.
This whole experience has certainly been a thing.
I do have one question about the end though:
ENDING SPOILERS:
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Ending:
Also holy shit the post-credit scene is a damn knife twist.
^This probably best sums up my feelings towards the game.^
Too many themes at once, none adequately explored.
The game at several points:
Also Core did you miss seeing the:
Maybe the point she brought us to is, for practical purposes, that point in time.
Too true, the ending sure leaves a lot to be discussed.
Speaking of which, there is one thing that just occurred to me:
We never see Saltonstall even though he was an interesting selling point of the E3 2010 trailer and he was mentioned here and there in the game and eventually presumed killed and scalped by the Vox. He would have been a worthy adversary.
We never see the bounty hunter guy. What's up with that?
Why do we never get to see any parts of the city fall out of the sky? Would have been cool.
A younger presidential Comstock like we saw in earlier concepts of the game may have been a better choice for focusing more on a grounded, republican Columbia rather then a born again New Eden in the sky, and that that may have been a better way to go with the story's focus from the get go, so as not to stray too far into time and physics and more abstract concepts, away from the rest of the game's themes which fit in more with the spirit of Columbia as a city of contrasts and hyper Americanized hypocrisy.
For me:
I did see this and got a kick out of that whole part. I was beaming.
Re: Last fight
Yeah, I can see that.
Also, I feel like the only one here who didn't have any major problems with the final fight. I kinda even enjoyed it a bit.
When I was actually winning the final fight was crazy and fun.
PSN ID : HBoxx
Haven't heard that.
Told you I was savoring this!
Time and the nature of reality is just as interesting if not more so but is much more abstract, subjective to a degree, open to interpretation, very complex and ultimately means more to what we might call God then it would mean to us, at least in terms of direct experience.
We don't experience time like it is presented here, and it leaves a strange taste in the mouth.
I took about 13 hours altogether. Towards the end I was getting pretty lazy with exploring.
Regarding new enemies late in the game:
The way their relationship evolves over time and becomes more intimate prior to Booker becoming aware of her as his daughter.
The bit with the corset in Comstock House after the tornado.
Which I guess she kinda is anyway but yeah.
Though, is it even possible to avoid fighting them in that initial part? The alarm guy is standing right in the damn way of the button you HAVE to press.
Well said sir. I guess the only response I could say to this would be:
A: They will teach us to quarrel about God, as the Catholics and Protestants do on the Nez Perce Reservation, and other places. We do not want to learn that. We may quarrel with men sometimes about things here on earth, but we never quarrel about God. We do not want to learn that.
Chief Joseph
In the end I dispel the obvious paradoxes and take the game at face value. It is much easier that way and makes the game much more enjoyable.
RE End game mobs:
I mean Columbia's purpose seemed to have a strong basis in prophecy. One outcome of its actions, declaring war on the United States and maybe the world, is explicit early on. I think this 'destiny' ties in with the multiverse theme and I think the multiverse theme is a suitable 'truth' which lies behind the lie of Columbia and Comstock. You know, America isn't special. Our own timeline isn't special. This is how it really works, etc.