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Scalpers.

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Posts

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I dunno, the scalpers didn't annoy me personally. I was waiting for someone outside the convention center, and instead of being confronted by a scalper once, I was looking at the scalper annoying everyone around him for 5 minutes. From that perspective, it's actually funny because the guy looks so pathetic.

    Djiem on
  • adesteradester Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    adester wrote: »
    Honestly they should number the badges and possible bring back the hologram.

    And I'm sorry Mcdermott if you think of your time in life as a money machine. To everyone their own.

    Sorry if I just broke to you the idea that when people you don't know do spend their time doing things for you, they might want to get compensated. Also, Santa isn't real.

    I understand compensation. I am generous with it.
    I'm sorry if I push your some of your buttons Mcdermott.
    I just don't see everything I do as an hourly wage or base myself off some pay scale.

    adester on
  • ConstantCupcakeConstantCupcake Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I have a real problem with both the scalpers out front and the scalpers on the internet. That being said, thanks so much to Robert who generously sold me a 3-day pass for my best friend Friday morning for under face value, a batch of cookies, and some coffee. Made my whole weekend and reminded me right of the bat why I love the pax community!

    ConstantCupcake on
  • omeromeomerome Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I saw a couple too and they kept asking me for my pass. I just told them no and kept it moving.

    Ignore them and eventually they will lose business and hopefully just stop harassing people imo.

    omerome on
  • SurlyDuffSurlyDuff Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Having the scalpers out there didn't bother me. Honestly, I thought it was kind of an affirmation that PAX and gaming culture in general has arrived.

    SurlyDuff on
  • AverageToasterAverageToaster Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    MelesMeles wrote: »
    kazuo wrote: »
    shurgh

    gotta hustle everyday. if you don't buy passes on-time, it's your fault.

    don't hate 'cause someone is trying to get theirs.

    -1

    The scalpers have no right to make money off PAX. It isn't their event. It's the same reason that I can't sell t-shirts with a PAX logo. I didn't do the work, I don't get to make the money.

    according to the doctrine of First Sale (Title 17: Chapter 1 U.S. Code) an artist, publisher, manufacturer or creator of a given product is only guaranteed the right of first sale on that item, and not from any future transactions.

    You can resell your shirt with the pax logo you just cant sell it saying you made it, you are simply reselling it.

    AverageToaster on
  • edgeofbladeedgeofblade Warlock Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I'll go ahead and take the very controversial position that they are indeed doing work, and their customers are paying them for it...

    I deem this discussion to be very intelligent.

    Scalpers extract the TRUE value out of the badges. If you want to look at it this way, scalpers are a healthy part of the economy. If PA wanted to put the scalpers out of business, they would have to charge considerably more... and they would look like they were greedy profiteers. But the scalpers are a symptom of nice people.

    Try going to SXSW, where the tickets cost at a bare minimum $375 for early bird film-only, $900 for an early-bird platinum badge, and $1250 for a walk-up platinum. Try Googling "SXSW Scalpers" and then do "PAX Scalpers". It's like night and day...

    edgeofblade on
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  • ZecroZecro Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    >Scalpers extract the TRUE value out of the badges

    Yep, it's the market value. Supply and demand, Introductory Economics kind of stuff.

    People pay more for parking their cars at PAX than they do for the event.

    Because of the nature of the event, making it profit-driven destroys the spirit of the event. That's the real issue: since PA is not profiting nearly as much as they could be, someone else is.

    The only thing we can do to make scalpers not profit is to not buy from them.

    PA can make a small number of day passes available at the door which would undercut the scalping considerably if it was not announced beforehand. The scalpers buy ten passes only to get to the event they think is sold out and see that there are passes available. Maybe it wouldn't work so great because once the reserve is sold then scalpers are in business again...

    Zecro on
  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    It might be nice if there was an official window for people to sell back/donate passes back to PAX who can then resell it to people who still need passes. That might help reduce the number of scalpers.

    I had a couple friends who had other plans on Sunday so they sold off their pass for $20 on Saturday.

    Dracil on
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  • BuraisuBuraisu Psychomancer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Zecro wrote: »
    People pay more for parking their cars at PAX than they do for the event.
    People who don't look for cheap parking, pay more then PAX. Others pay $10 a day or less.

    Buraisu on
    47uk6agplx83.png
  • trickycooljtrickycoolj Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Buraisu wrote: »
    Zecro wrote: »
    People pay more for parking their cars at PAX than they do for the event.
    People who don't look for cheap parking, pay more then PAX. Others pay $10 a day or less.

    No kidding, the overflow garage was only $10/day payment up front. I carpool with 4 people each day and we trade off driving so I was only out about $15 for transportation costs only because we did BYOC and needed to be in the main garage for loading purposes.

    trickycoolj on
  • ZionadZionad CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    MelesMeles wrote: »
    kazuo wrote: »
    shurgh

    gotta hustle everyday. if you don't buy passes on-time, it's your fault.

    don't hate 'cause someone is trying to get theirs.

    -1

    The scalpers have no right to make money off PAX. It isn't their event. It's the same reason that I can't sell t-shirts with a PAX logo. I didn't do the work, I don't get to make the money.

    So what's the difference between this and a used game sale? Someone already paid for that ticket anyway already, right? He's just selling used badges!

    Bazinga!

    I for one am glad the scalpers are there (to a degree). It just means that I will always have a way into PAX if other plans - which had gotten in the way - free up last minute and I'm able to go suddenly. The problem is that they were shady and aggressive/rude. I wonder if pax reg could start a used ticket exchange or something at the door that you could go to, to tell registration that you are done for the weekend so that they can sell additional badges on a first come basis. I'd definitely be in favor of that.

    Zionad on
    I do it all for the pew pew
  • Silvestri99Silvestri99 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Buraisu wrote: »
    Zecro wrote: »
    People pay more for parking their cars at PAX than they do for the event.
    People who don't look for cheap parking, pay more then PAX. Others pay $10 a day or less.

    No kidding, the overflow garage was only $10/day payment up front. I carpool with 4 people each day and we trade off driving so I was only out about $15 for transportation costs only because we did BYOC and needed to be in the main garage for loading purposes.

    I parked up the street on Capital Hill for $6 each day. It was a 5 minute walk to the convention center. In fact on Sunday I grabbed a street spot for free. You just have to get there early enough to look around.

    Silvestri99 on
  • lindethierlindethier Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I noticed them while making my swag drop runs back to my hotel, but they didn't bug me while I was there. I agree with one of the previous posters though, they are taking up space in such a crowded choke point, that was the only thing that annoyed me about them. (I know, it was only a couple of guys, but still).

    lindethier on
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  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Zionad wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    MelesMeles wrote: »
    kazuo wrote: »
    shurgh

    gotta hustle everyday. if you don't buy passes on-time, it's your fault.

    don't hate 'cause someone is trying to get theirs.

    -1

    The scalpers have no right to make money off PAX. It isn't their event. It's the same reason that I can't sell t-shirts with a PAX logo. I didn't do the work, I don't get to make the money.

    So what's the difference between this and a used game sale? Someone already paid for that ticket anyway already, right? He's just selling used badges!

    Bazinga!

    I for one am glad the scalpers are there (to a degree). It just means that I will always have a way into PAX if other plans - which had gotten in the way - free up last minute and I'm able to go suddenly. The problem is that they were shady and aggressive/rude. I wonder if pax reg could start a used ticket exchange or something at the door that you could go to, to tell registration that you are done for the weekend so that they can sell additional badges on a first come basis. I'd definitely be in favor of that.

    No, this is like the guy who rings up a dozen preorders of the hot new game at the only game store in town for a hundred miles and also buys the extra copies the store orders as soon as the store opens, then stands outside or craigslists it for a $10-$250 profit. See the difference?

    Scalpers aren't just this wonderful positive force that "balances" the market. They can function just as well in a balanced market by unbalancing it by causing an artificial scarcity of the properly priced product/service that shouldn't exist in the first place so that they can charge a higher price.

    Used game markets, on the other hand, function in an *opposite* manner, by causing a *surplus* of the item in question, reducing its price.

    Dracil on
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  • LTAcostaLTAcosta Boston, MARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    eye-shuh wrote: »
    They won't buy passes early. The Enforcers were pretty vigilant in making sure they were at least following the law and not scalping the passes for higher than they could be regularly purchased through PA.

    This actually isnt true... Although the enforcers were probably trying, they weren't succeeding. I saw one of the scalpers turn down an offer of $60 dollars for a single day pass. He told the girl he was charging $80 per day, and to go get 20 more dollars.

    LTAcosta on
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  • chupamiubrechupamiubre Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dracil wrote: »
    Zionad wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    MelesMeles wrote: »
    kazuo wrote: »
    shurgh

    gotta hustle everyday. if you don't buy passes on-time, it's your fault.

    don't hate 'cause someone is trying to get theirs.

    -1

    The scalpers have no right to make money off PAX. It isn't their event. It's the same reason that I can't sell t-shirts with a PAX logo. I didn't do the work, I don't get to make the money.

    So what's the difference between this and a used game sale? Someone already paid for that ticket anyway already, right? He's just selling used badges!

    Bazinga!

    I for one am glad the scalpers are there (to a degree). It just means that I will always have a way into PAX if other plans - which had gotten in the way - free up last minute and I'm able to go suddenly. The problem is that they were shady and aggressive/rude. I wonder if pax reg could start a used ticket exchange or something at the door that you could go to, to tell registration that you are done for the weekend so that they can sell additional badges on a first come basis. I'd definitely be in favor of that.

    No, this is like the guy who rings up a dozen preorders of the hot new game at the only game store in town for a hundred miles and also buys the extra copies the store orders as soon as the store opens, then stands outside or craigslists it for a $10-$250 profit. See the difference?

    Scalpers aren't just this wonderful positive force that "balances" the market. They can function just as well in a balanced market by unbalancing it by causing an artificial scarcity of the properly priced product/service that shouldn't exist in the first place so that they can charge a higher price.

    Used game markets, on the other hand, function in an *opposite* manner, by causing a *surplus* of the item in question, reducing its price.

    That person then needs to learn how to use amazon. Honestly if some kid who could not be bothered to buy a pax pass for the some 8 months registration was open for then i say take him for all hes worth. This is not blizcon where passes sell out in seconds this is pax where passes are on sale for months and are cheap. Now if you you want to say they are in my way or annoying fine but don't cry about the poor poor people who could not be bothered to buy a pass. This is pax shit sells out yo.

    chupamiubre on
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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    But what about people who buy a lot of passes in advance with the sole intention of selling them at a higher price? They create a "sell out" situation sooner than it should be and make getting into PAX a harder and less pleasant situation for people. They are indirectly making PAX a worse event for many people, and this is wrong, seeing how PAX is supposed to be THE fun and welcoming community event for gamers all around.

    Djiem on
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  • chupamiubrechupamiubre Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Djiem wrote: »
    But what about people who buy a lot of passes in advance with the sole intention of selling them at a higher price? They create a "sell out" situation sooner than it should be and make getting into PAX a harder and less pleasant situation for people. They are indirectly making PAX a worse event for many people, and this is wrong, seeing how PAX is supposed to be THE fun and welcoming community event for gamers all around.

    While i agree with you in theory, with some 30k passes being sold it would very hard to run into said condition. At least at this point in the game.

    chupamiubre on
    <ZeroHourHero> I have a tiny penis
    <Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
    <prox> i work for dicks
    #paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
  • aiouaaioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    LTAcosta wrote: »
    eye-shuh wrote: »
    They won't buy passes early. The Enforcers were pretty vigilant in making sure they were at least following the law and not scalping the passes for higher than they could be regularly purchased through PA.

    This actually isnt true... Although the enforcers were probably trying, they weren't succeeding. I saw one of the scalpers turn down an offer of $60 dollars for a single day pass. He told the girl he was charging $80 per day, and to go get 20 more dollars.

    Sadly, scalping is in fact perfectly legal in seattle.
    Relevant law.
    Ticket sales that occur through a subsequent sale(s) of
    the ticket(s) by the initial purchaser who purchased the ticket(s) from the
    promoter, sponsor or venue, or any subsequent sale of such ticket(s), may be
    made at market price.
    Market price =! face value.

    aioua on
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    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • iguyiguy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think that this could be avoided if PA reserved a certain number of passes for "at the door" sale. They could control the price and amount of passes sold.

    As for the scalpers, I understand that some people may feel the need to "hustle" and "get theirs", but it doesn't make it right. I had to buy six one day passes as opposed to two three day passes because of a glitch in the system that said they had sold out of three days when they had not actually sold out yet. Of course when I found out it was too late and I ended paying significantly more. Any one of those passes that the scalpers had could have been mine.

    Also, by reselling passes to random people on the street it does not allow for PA to accuratley account for how many people are actually attending PAX and can lead to problems for PAX when trying to plan out space and venues for next year.

    iguy on
  • mspencermspencer PAX [ENFORCER] Council Bluffs, IARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    There's a downside to at-the-door sales though. If we advertise there are 1000 passes available at the door, and 3000 people fly out to Seattle and book hotels, 2000 of those people will be disappointed.

    mspencer on
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  • citiuscitius Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dracil wrote: »

    No, this is like the guy who rings up a dozen preorders of the hot new game at the only game store in town for a hundred miles and also buys the extra copies the store orders as soon as the store opens, then stands outside or craigslists it for a $10-$250 profit. See the difference?

    For the people standing outside, this is not how it works. I can guarantee you not a single one of them purchased tickets in advance. I used to know a guy who put himself through school scalping, and in my poorer days I would buy tickets to sporting events from scalpers because they were cheaper. Scalpers make money by buying below market and selling at some price above that (even below face.) They are extremely unlikely to tie up money for several months that they could use to operate at other events.

    There is no shortage of below face buying opportunities for them. People always end up with extra passes for whatever reason, and sometimes that happens at the last minute. At that point it can be a hassle to find a buyer and get your money back, so people are willing to take whatever they can get. For people who want to go to the show, the value of passes is much higher -- they will pay well above face because they perceive that it is their only option. I was surprised to see scalpers outside because I didn't expect there to be many people in this latter group. People show up to sporting events without tickets because they know that tickets will be available from scalpers, but who would expect scalpers to be at PAX?

    Believe me, I can't stand when people buy up something scarce with the intent to re-sell it. It took me forever to get a wii back in the day because I refused to pay those leeches, but that's really not what was happening here.

    citius on
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  • aiouaaioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The scalpers weren't just reselling passes they bought off leaving attendees. They had a signifigant buying operation and purchased a large number of them directly from PA. There were there selling Friday morning, before they had time to get them from attendees.

    aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • edited September 2010
    This content has been removed.

  • BuraisuBuraisu Psychomancer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Registration should be able to rebuy and resell tickets at a fair price.

    Buraisu on
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  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited September 2010
    This thread is just going in circles. So, I'm going to lock it now.

    Don't take this as me trying to stifle discussion, it's just that this discussion isn't really going anywhere. Every point that could be make has been made. Hopefully a solution to this problem will happen before next year's PAXes.

    Moe Fwacky on
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This discussion has been closed.