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[Starcraft 2] Multiplayer discussion! Now [9]% sexier.

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Posts

  • LurkLurk Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Okay, I am going to go rant about Ventral Sacs right now.

    200/200 is way too expensive for Ventral Sacs. Logic dictates that is a AMAZING DEAL because Terrans and Protoss have to pay 100/100 and 200/0, respectively to build only one of their transports. For the low, low price of 200/200, all of your overlords become transports.

    That is wrong. So wrong.

    First of all, for the cost of building the individual transport for Terran and Protoss, they actually get awesome units in addition to gaining the ability to do drops. Most Terran players will get Medivacs just for the healing and Warp Prism can warp-in units directly into battle, or an opponent's base. Overlords are Overlords doing Overlord things.

    The most important thing though, is that Zerg have no really good unit to drop. There is no Zerg unit that is extremely effective at sniping structures. We don't have Marauders on stim or DTs that melt buildings in an instant and be able to quickly retreat. We have to dedicate a decent sized force to a drop to do any real amount of damage. Which requires a good amount of Overlords. Though I will admit that banelings are useful to carpet bomb marine blobs, but that's a limited application.

    Lurk on
    415429-1.png?1281464977
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    Overseers are very fast, much faster than Dark Templars. Are you making sure to get Pneumatized Carapace?

    DTs should be pretty much useless against Zerg in the mid game for that reason (fast Overseers).

    Also, as a general rule against anyone with lots of static defense, you just abuse their lack of mobility. It's a staple real time strategy game concept. So, with that in mind, I'd make lots of creep highways, make a bunch of bases around the map, build up a ton of larva, use speed/cracklings and hydras and mutas to contain them and defend your base. Easy as pie.

    In fact, it's so easy that you should win against any Terran or Protoss that turtles like that. That's why turtling with fifty photon cannons is generally a bad idea.

    Melkster let's play a game you suck at and I'm good at so I stop feeling worthless okay.

    But seriously, didn't get pneumatized carapace, and I'm generally bad about overseers to start with. What's the appropriate time to get an overseer, and to get speed on them as well? Should 1 overseer/base and one for my attack force be top priority if I can't get into their INSANE WALL BASE to scout tech starport/dark shrine?

    Get an overseer literally as soon as your Lair finishes

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    warp prisms are kind of poopy


    focus on how medivacs are bullshit in order to make your argument stronger

    Feels Good Man on
  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Marauder drops are probably the most ridiculous thing in this game

    tofu on
  • LurkLurk Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    That would make me sound very populist.

    Lurk on
    415429-1.png?1281464977
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Melkster let's play a game you suck at and I'm good at so I stop feeling worthless okay.

    I'm pretty bad at chess?
    But seriously, didn't get pneumatized carapace, and I'm generally bad about overseers to start with. What's the appropriate time to get an overseer, and to get speed on them as well? Should 1 overseer/base and one for my attack force be top priority if I can't get into their INSANE WALL BASE to scout tech starport/dark shrine?

    I dunno, it's up to you. But if they're killing you with lots of DTs, getting faster overseers seems like a good idea. DTs should not be that hard to deal with, really. Overseers are impressively fast with that speed upgrade.

    Also, lots of Zerg will suicide a speedy overlord into the Protoss or Terran base to try and figure out what tech they're going. But honestly, if they're turtling with fifty cannons you should expect something slow and devastating. Maybe a bunch of colossi, or perhaps void rays, or in this guy's case, DTs. Having THE COUNTER to that unit is far less important than just countering the immobility of his turtle by expanding everywhere and having highly mobile map control.

    Melkster on
  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Solutions with Roaches.repimg-33-148720.jpg

    I like how you get a whole bunch of his zerglings with just one baneling.

    Peewi on
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Lurk wrote: »
    The most important thing though, is that Zerg have no really good unit to drop. There is no Zerg unit that is extremely effective at sniping structures. We don't have Marauders on stim or DTs that melt buildings in an instant and be able to quickly retreat. We have to dedicate a decent sized force to a drop to do any real amount of damage. Which requires a good amount of Overlords. Though I will admit that banelings are useful to carpet bomb marine blobs, but that's a limited application.

    Baneling drops on expansions/poorly defended mineral lines. Roach/infestor drops behind a wall. Infestors up on cliffs. Small numbers of banelings burrowed on *your* cliffs to auto-manhandle incoming tank drops.

    Overlord transport fits right in with the general Zerg philosophy: Always Be Harassing.

    hlprmnky on
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  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Honest question: do you think that portrait pictures have a psychological effect on players?

    IE: does my portrait of the scientist from the singleplayer campaign make me look like a noob?

    literally the only cool portrait is bangin newscaster lady

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Honest question: do you think that portrait pictures have a psychological effect on players?

    IE: does my portrait of the scientist from the singleplayer campaign make me look like a noob?

    literally the only cool portrait is bangin newscaster lady

    you have misspelt Corruptor

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • MouschiMouschi Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Man all this theory and game tips is SO HILARIOUS when I follow up reading it to play another bronze ladder match.

    ZvZ, opponent 8 pools me. I get out some lings just after his lings get to my hatchery, and I lose some drones as my drones NOBLY DEFEND. I'm like "uuuurk that hurt, I hope his economy is shit because my poor drones!"

    He later sends some roaches that are met by an equal number of roaches and a bunch of lings on top. My economy is still in a rough place, so I keep my force there and expand. Eventually with my expansion up I get to send a big attack force.

    He has, in the meantime, teched to infestors and built nothing but infestors. He then uses those infestors to create nothing but infested marines. Never unburrows them, just creates a ton of infested marines for my zerglings to kill.

    I can't learn from this!

    Mouschi on
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  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    also her only name is bangin newscaster lady

    also i need to play this game more

    but

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Yeah I'm glad I didn't the the CE for the portraits because the best one is part of the standard game.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    If he's turtling with burrowed Infestors, keep macroing up and build an Overseer. Watch for sneaky expansions and focus on killing his workers.

    Infeted Marines are also on a timer, so you can feint in, cause him to use all his energy, and retreat for 30 seconds or whatever it is.

    TL DR on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Honest question: do you think that portrait pictures have a psychological effect on players?

    IE: does my portrait of the scientist from the singleplayer campaign make me look like a noob?

    Haha, mine must then, cause the only ones I like are Moustache McJowls and the Firebat. I've been using Firebat since I got it and don't see myself changing any time soon (I'll switch to Admiral Hearing-Aid when I get him.)

    Ego on
    Erik
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Lurk wrote: »
    Though I will admit that banelings are useful to carpet bomb mineral lines, but that's an infinite application.

    JamesKeenan on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    Honest question: do you think that portrait pictures have a psychological effect on players?

    IE: does my portrait of the scientist from the singleplayer campaign make me look like a noob?

    literally the only cool portrait is bangin newscaster lady

    you have misspelt The Queen

    JamesKeenan on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Man all this theory and game tips is SO HILARIOUS when I follow up reading it to play another bronze ladder match.

    ZvZ, opponent 8 pools me. I get out some lings just after his lings get to my hatchery, and I lose some drones as my drones NOBLY DEFEND. I'm like "uuuurk that hurt, I hope his economy is shit because my poor drones!"

    He later sends some roaches that are met by an equal number of roaches and a bunch of lings on top. My economy is still in a rough place, so I keep my force there and expand. Eventually with my expansion up I get to send a big attack force.

    He has, in the meantime, teched to infestors and built nothing but infestors. He then uses those infestors to create nothing but infested marines. Never unburrows them, just creates a ton of infested marines for my zerglings to kill.

    I can't learn from this!


    Learn to send zerlings into his base.

    Just, whenever. And I'm not kidding. Just send them over there. Do not expect to get them back. Just send in zerglings when:
    1. You don't know what he's doing
    2. He was attacking a lot and now he's not
    3. You just did something cool (Because he probably did, too)
    4. You just tech switched (Because he might have too)
    5. You expanded (Because... get it?)

    JamesKeenan on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The Queen being Kate Lockwell.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I use the Overlord portrait because Random Player is Best Player

    TL DR on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I am so close to the queen (250 wins)

    And I promise everyone here and now.

    I will never use another portrait.

    JamesKeenan on
  • walnutmonwalnutmon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Man all this theory and game tips is SO HILARIOUS when I follow up reading it to play another bronze ladder match.

    ZvZ, opponent 8 pools me. I get out some lings just after his lings get to my hatchery, and I lose some drones as my drones NOBLY DEFEND. I'm like "uuuurk that hurt, I hope his economy is shit because my poor drones!"

    He later sends some roaches that are met by an equal number of roaches and a bunch of lings on top. My economy is still in a rough place, so I keep my force there and expand. Eventually with my expansion up I get to send a big attack force.

    He has, in the meantime, teched to infestors and built nothing but infestors. He then uses those infestors to create nothing but infested marines. Never unburrows them, just creates a ton of infested marines for my zerglings to kill.

    I can't learn from this!

    Learn to send zerlings into his base.

    Just, whenever. And I'm not kidding. Just send them over there. Do not expect to get them back. Just send in zerglings when:
    1. You don't know what he's doing
    2. He was attacking a lot and now he's not
    3. You just did something cool (Because he probably did, too)
    4. You just tech switched (Because he might have too)
    5. You expanded (Because... get it?)

    other than against zerg and the occasional (bad) protoss, how do you do this? do your zerglings walk through wall(in)s?

    walnutmon on
    xbox: jmbizzo | ps3: walnutmon | steam: walnutmon | SC2: walnutmon.591
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    warp prisms are kind of poopy


    focus on how medivacs are bullshit in order to make your argument stronger

    they're so friggin slow w/o upgrade, and can only carry 4 zealots.

    Joe K on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Especially since some Terran are starting to wall at the bottom, so even a suicide 'ling won't get any info about the base.

    TL DR on
  • McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Guek wrote: »
    McAllen wrote: »
    Can someone please explain why Terran needed Sensor Towers and Point Defense Drones?

    Terran already have the best healing and defensive capabilities in the game. Sensor Towers and PDDs, I feel, cheapens the Terran's micro while super awesome Terrans just have that much more leeway and advantage over Zerg and Protoss.

    right now, terran essentially has the most advantages and the fewest obvious weaknesses. their hard counters seem the most effective imo.

    but with all the "terran is OP!!!" talk that's been goin on since the game's release, it's almost certain they'll get retooled and rebalanced in the long run. weren't they considered the "worst" race during beta or something?

    Terran's only real weakness is general lack of mobility. MMM is quite mobile, but all of their mech and air is quite slow. They also can't warp in units anywhere like toss, nor do they have the speed of Zerg units.

    Other than that, though, they're super duper powerful and most maps really seem to favor them (with the natural chokes, etc.)

    While I agree on most points, the Hellion will always make up for any lack of mobility for Terran.

    I have no sympathy for the psi-human race.

    McAllen on
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    walnutmon wrote: »
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Man all this theory and game tips is SO HILARIOUS when I follow up reading it to play another bronze ladder match.

    ZvZ, opponent 8 pools me. I get out some lings just after his lings get to my hatchery, and I lose some drones as my drones NOBLY DEFEND. I'm like "uuuurk that hurt, I hope his economy is shit because my poor drones!"

    He later sends some roaches that are met by an equal number of roaches and a bunch of lings on top. My economy is still in a rough place, so I keep my force there and expand. Eventually with my expansion up I get to send a big attack force.

    He has, in the meantime, teched to infestors and built nothing but infestors. He then uses those infestors to create nothing but infested marines. Never unburrows them, just creates a ton of infested marines for my zerglings to kill.

    I can't learn from this!

    Learn to send zerlings into his base.

    Just, whenever. And I'm not kidding. Just send them over there. Do not expect to get them back. Just send in zerglings when:
    1. You don't know what he's doing
    2. He was attacking a lot and now he's not
    3. You just did something cool (Because he probably did, too)
    4. You just tech switched (Because he might have too)
    5. You expanded (Because... get it?)

    other than against zerg and the occasional (bad) protoss, how do you do this? do your zerglings walk through wall(in)s?

    The key is to poke a bit, find weaknesses, and leave if need be. It just keeps your opponent on their toes and forces them to reveal their hand to you.

    Heartlash on
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  • walnutmonwalnutmon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    it's gotten to the point that against terran as zerg I kind of feel like he is free to mine out his first base without any hinderances at all, and I just try and keep him from expanding and try to beat him once his first base is all out of juice

    does anyone thing that there is more I can do to hurt a Terran player while in his base?

    nydus doesn't work in the main unless your opponent is pants on head dumb... and drops, i don't know, they seem very risky since your regular army is often BARELY enough to hold a push, regardless of whether you are at 200/200 because so many armies just melt in the face of a terran army

    mutas do work, but I've been using them less lately because when T pushes with tank/marine/marauder your mutas will evaporate so fast,and then you have no defense at all

    Heartlash wrote: »
    ...

    The key is to poke a bit, find weaknesses, and leave if need be. It just keeps your opponent on their toes and forces them to reveal their hand to you.

    well, again, how do you "poke", if by poke you mean run your zergling to his wall and die... I guess you can do that, if you need to free up some food

    walnutmon on
    xbox: jmbizzo | ps3: walnutmon | steam: walnutmon | SC2: walnutmon.591
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    McAllen wrote: »
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Guek wrote: »
    McAllen wrote: »
    Can someone please explain why Terran needed Sensor Towers and Point Defense Drones?

    Terran already have the best healing and defensive capabilities in the game. Sensor Towers and PDDs, I feel, cheapens the Terran's micro while super awesome Terrans just have that much more leeway and advantage over Zerg and Protoss.

    right now, terran essentially has the most advantages and the fewest obvious weaknesses. their hard counters seem the most effective imo.

    but with all the "terran is OP!!!" talk that's been goin on since the game's release, it's almost certain they'll get retooled and rebalanced in the long run. weren't they considered the "worst" race during beta or something?

    Terran's only real weakness is general lack of mobility. MMM is quite mobile, but all of their mech and air is quite slow. They also can't warp in units anywhere like toss, nor do they have the speed of Zerg units.

    Other than that, though, they're super duper powerful and most maps really seem to favor them (with the natural chokes, etc.)

    While I agree on most points, the Hellion will always make up for any lack of mobility for Terran.

    I have no sympathy for the psi-human race.

    not really. alternatively, how so?

    Feels Good Man on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Cause it's paper thin useless against large groups of ranged units and does shit damage to structures, but damn is it fast with its 4.27 move speed! :P

    Also damn Jimmy, guess I got a new portrait.

    SkutSkut on
  • KhaczorKhaczor Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Protoss were the ones most relegated to overpoweredness during a lot of beta. Mostly because zealots and a few other units were so strong that you just needed the right army composition and could a move blind to victory.

    A host of zealot nerfs has changed that.

    And hellion will NOT make up for lack of mobility for terran. 2 of any static defense for the other races basically makes them useless in harassing expands.

    Towards the endgame where more than 1 expansion comes into play... both Zerg and Protoss have a host of mobility and army replenishment advantages that Terran lacks. Terran really has to micro his units well in the big confrontations endgame in order to survive and push to victory. Zerg can just laugh with critical mass mutas around the map.

    Khaczor on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    protoss were "op" for a really long time because of lolvoidrays and before that super fast warp gate pushes before they made the research take more time

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Khaczor wrote: »
    Protoss were the ones most relegated to overpoweredness during a lot of beta. Mostly because zealots and a few other units were so strong that you just needed the right army composition and could a move blind to victory.

    A host of zealot nerfs has changed that.

    And hellion will NOT make up for lack of mobility for terran. 2 of any static defense for the other races basically makes them useless in harassing expands.

    Towards the endgame where more than 1 expansion comes into play... both Zerg and Protoss have a host of mobility and army replenishment advantages that Terran lacks. Terran really has to micro his units well in the big confrontations endgame in order to survive and push to victory. Zerg can just laugh with critical mass mutas around the map.

    Man, what game you been playing? It sure as hell ain't got nothing to do with crafting stars that's for sure.

    Movitz on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    No, he's pretty much got the mobility / reinforcement thing right. It's just preferable for most people not to think about it because 'omg terrans mmm t a move lol.'

    Ego on
    Erik
  • SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    No, he's pretty much got the mobility / reinforcement thing right. It's just preferable for most people not to think about it because they like to find excuses for their horrible play

    Fixed for you, although the message is pretty similar.

    Sorry, but if you lose to reapers and are below 1300 elo diamond, it wasn't because they were overpowered.

    Reapers are actually a very large risk, and are a fucking nightmare to control while macroing.

    SkyGheNe on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Not to mention on maps like Scrap Station you have to slow push because if toss has warpgates on look his army's twice as big even though I crushed it by the time you get there. And our cliff jumping unit is worthless after early-mid game except for scouting, but at least we have one, poor zerg.

    Now our air superiority against toss is just silly and muta deathballs means your opponent isn't expanding any time soon. :P

    SkutSkut on
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Well, it would be a boring game if all the races were the same with super fast units and expert wall-offss and great ledge units.

    mastman on
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  • MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Deleted, because I don't even want to start this discussion :P

    Movitz on
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Ego wrote: »
    No, he's pretty much got the mobility / reinforcement thing right. It's just preferable for most people not to think about it because they like to find excuses for their horrible play

    Fixed for you, although the message is pretty similar.

    Sorry, but if you lose to reapers and are below 1300 elo diamond, it wasn't because they were overpowered.

    Reapers are actually a very large risk, and are a fucking nightmare to control while macroing.

    watching the IEM finals with Morrow vs Idra, it really seemed like reapers were crazy overpowered. I've since learned that morrow is just really fucking good

    Beef Avenger on
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  • SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Movitz wrote: »
    Bioballs doesn't scare me nor do I find them too powerful. It's those goddamn tanks that you can keep two of at each exp to shut down everything that annoys me. And the micro of those are "E".

    Heh. Keep him on one base and if he moves out that's your opportunity to kill his really shitty tanks?

    I mean, yeah, if you're suiciding into seiged tanks you're going to lose. That's a no brainer.


    But tanks aren't going to touch Muta, and Muta are what completely fucks a terran as soon as he moves out, because 12 will take out 3 of his shitty turrets by his mineral line.

    SkyGheNe on
  • ShaggyShaggy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So is anyone else immediately skeptical of an opponent that starts bullshitting with you towards the end of the game? I know he is likely just trying to chat, but I've met a few people that say stuff to try and lull you into a false sense of security. Case in point, I was playing a zerg the other day who rushed pretty quickly. He broke through my wall but my marines managed to fend him off. Subsequent baneling bust attempts by him were also thwarted by my tanks as well as his Nydus attempt. Anyway, after his Nydus attack, I moved in on his expansion and he says "I don't want to play you anymore, you are too good," which is the exact opposite of the truth (bronze league, barely staying at .500). I responded to him but I also thought he might be up to something so I quickly looked all over the map for some surprise. Turns out he was just trying to talk, and he left soon after that since he had nothing to defend against my banshees. Starcraft is ruining my internet interpoersonal skills.

    Shaggy on
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