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[World of Darkness] Red Star shining at WW HQ, heads to roll

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Posts

  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    My mage is fate/time and I don't know why I even roll dice outside of seeing if it was a exceptional success.

    I mean, I love the setting, but sometimes I need some.....game... In my game.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    That's how I feel. I love Mage's lore, but it's really difficult to balance a game around it and keep it interesting. There's terrifying antagonists too, but I don't want them to be too overwhelming.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited September 14
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Don't worry, the fluff is largely the same, the Mysterium is still the Mysterium, etc. One notable change I really like was making the Silver Ladder more focused on humanist concerns, bettering society, trying to help people awaken, etc. It's much more interesting than "the Ventrue of Mages" from 1E.

    That sounds cool, I felt like they were the weakest order.

    How about the Guardians? They're my favorite.
    (Incidentally the Mysterium book is easily the best of the five, but so far the Arrow's is #2. It has a LOT of background.)
    My mage is fate/time and I don't know why I even roll dice outside of seeing if it was a exceptional success.

    I mean, I love the setting, but sometimes I need some.....game... In my game.

    Not as bad as the Perfected Adept in a game I ran IRL once. Uncle was literally unstoppable when it game to physical tasks.

    cj iwakura on
    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy Our Lady of Perpetual Mazes The CageRegistered User regular
    edited September 14
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Don't worry, the fluff is largely the same, the Mysterium is still the Mysterium, etc. One notable change I really like was making the Silver Ladder more focused on humanist concerns, bettering society, trying to help people awaken, etc. It's much more interesting than "the Ventrue of Mages" from 1E.

    That sounds cool, I felt like they were the weakest order.

    How about the Guardians? They're my favorite.
    (Incidentally the Mysterium book is easily the best of the five, but so far the Arrow's is #2. It has a LOT of background.)
    My mage is fate/time and I don't know why I even roll dice outside of seeing if it was a exceptional success.

    I mean, I love the setting, but sometimes I need some.....game... In my game.

    Not as bad as the Perfected Adept in a game I ran IRL once. Uncle was literally unstoppable when it game to physical tasks.

    I played a Guardian in an online 1E game for 2-3 years, so I dig them too! It's been a while since I last read 2E, but IIRC, the Guardians are still basically as portrayed in their 1E splat book. Obviously, with the vulgar/subtle distinction being gone there are some differences, but their whole concept seems to fit in better with that distinction gone and the changes to the wisdom system. Brookshaw went into them a little in one of his dev diaries: http://theonyxpath.com/a-beautiful-crime-guardians-of-the-veil-mage-the-awakening/

    MsAnthropy on
    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    My mage is fate/time and I don't know why I even roll dice outside of seeing if it was a exceptional success.

    I mean, I love the setting, but sometimes I need some.....game... In my game.

    What do you mean? I feel like Mage is second only to Demon in having "No Sell" defenses, irrespective of how many dice you roll there's usually a response or recovery, that's the game...?

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Don't worry, the fluff is largely the same, the Mysterium is still the Mysterium, etc. One notable change I really like was making the Silver Ladder more focused on humanist concerns, bettering society, trying to help people awaken, etc. It's much more interesting than "the Ventrue of Mages" from 1E.

    That sounds cool, I felt like they were the weakest order.

    How about the Guardians? They're my favorite.
    (Incidentally the Mysterium book is easily the best of the five, but so far the Arrow's is #2. It has a LOT of background.)
    My mage is fate/time and I don't know why I even roll dice outside of seeing if it was a exceptional success.

    I mean, I love the setting, but sometimes I need some.....game... In my game.

    Not as bad as the Perfected Adept in a game I ran IRL once. Uncle was literally unstoppable when it game to physical tasks.

    I played a Guardian in an online 1E game for 2-3 years, so I dig them too! It's been a while since I last read 2E, but IIRC, the Guardians are still basically as portrayed in their 1E splat book. Obviously, with the vulgar/subtle distinction being gone there are some differences, but their whole concept seems to fit in better with that distinction gone and the changes to the wisdom system. Brookshaw went into them a little in one of his dev diaries: http://theonyxpath.com/a-beautiful-crime-guardians-of-the-veil-mage-the-awakening/

    Very nice.

    Funny about this...
    Guardians advising restraint aren’t just pollyannas with knives behind their backs – they’re right. In a perfect world, everyone would treat magic the way the Guardians advise.

    That's exactly the picture used as a sample Guardian in 1e, lol; a woman with a knife behind her back.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
    MsAnthropy
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    edited September 15
    I had a blast in that nwod mage 1e game. The bad guys try to jump out of the back of a van! Better have the dpirit of the van door close it on their faces

    Mind controlling the driver works great until one of the passengers kills them

    Our Forces mage fucked up an NPC’s dancing using frictionless surfaces so another PC could impress their crush

    Powerpuppies on
    sig.gif
    MsAnthropy
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    I had a blast in that nwod mage 1e game. The bad guys try to jump out of the back of a van! Better have the dpirit of the van door close it on their faces

    Mind controlling the driver works great until one of the passengers kills them

    Our Forces mage fucked up an NPC’s dancing using frictionless surfaces so another PC could impress their crush

    Fucking with friction was one of my favorite tricks I didn't get to use too often. Forces tends to have lots of big, flashy tricks but it's fun to do some of the less obvious stuff with it. I was kinda sad I never got to use the gravity trick. Where you take an area and have the gravity rapidly fluctuate to fuck with someone's inner ear.

  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited September 21


    Hmm, this smacks of signs that Paradox is unhappy with his handling of the situation over the last 3 years. (Edited for error.)

    Jeep-Eep on
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Sjögren is a veteran of DICE, but he's been with Paradox since 2011. I am fairly certain he's never worked with or for CCP.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited September 21
    Ardent wrote: »
    Sjögren is a veteran of DICE, but he's been with Paradox since 2011. I am fairly certain he's never worked with or for CCP.

    You're right, it was that raging idiot, Martin Ericsson, which frankly explains a great deal about this disaster. Edit:He may well have played a role in killing two separate attempts at a WOD transmedia project at this rate, FFS.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    You’re making a lot of assumptions

    ArdentLanlaorn
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Anyone have any numbers on the 5th edition launch? I wonder if Paradox was expecting the moon and balked when they got something more reasonable.

    Jeep-Eep
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    I had a blast in that nwod mage 1e game. The bad guys try to jump out of the back of a van! Better have the dpirit of the van door close it on their faces

    Mind controlling the driver works great until one of the passengers kills them

    Our Forces mage fucked up an NPC’s dancing using frictionless surfaces so another PC could impress their crush

    Fucking with friction was one of my favorite tricks I didn't get to use too often.

    Almost sig worthy, almost.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    That's a very good quote

    E.Coyote
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular


    I regret to inform you that New White Wolf Is Back At Their Bullshit.

    Again.

    Brainleech
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    Is there a full quote available somewhere?

    Pkmoutl wrote: »
    Futore wrote: »
    fleshlights are funny. even funnier are the lifelike butts that stores sell. Fuck buying an entire doll.

    I'll just have the butt, thanks. I'm all 'bout efficiency
    Buy a doll, you're committing to having sex with just one imaginary lady.

    Just a butt? That butt could belong to anybody you'll never actually sleep with.

    Girl or well-shaven guy.

    The sky is the limit when you only have a plastic butt to fuck.
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    The rest of the twitter thread, or Camarilla supplement p.68.
    Edit: Or this deeper analysis:


    This is a pattern at this point, as OPP devs have stated that transphobic content was edited into the latest WTA without their consent or knowledge.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I think “analysis” is a pretty strong word for that.

  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Honestly, I've just given up on this argument. You can't convince conspiracy theorists.

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    To be clear, there are real problems with that book.

    Neaden
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Sorry I've been out of the loop but is that why White Wolf put out another apology on Facebook today?

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Read this page.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited November 9
    The apology:
    "White Wolf Community - We realize the way we have portrayed various topics in the recent Camarilla and Anarch setting books can be viewed as crude and insensitive. We appreciate this feedback and we are actively examining our choices in these books. Earlier this year, we made a pledge to you to meet certain standards and be more direct with the community regarding the World of Darkness and our games. That's a pledge we failed to uphold, and we are deeply sorry.

    White Wolf is currently undergoing some significant transitions, up to and including a change in leadership. The team needs a short time to understand what this means, so we ask for your patience as we figure out our next steps.

    We thank you for your support, and for calling us out when it's needed. Your thoughts and opinions are essential to the improvement of White Wolf.

    [NOTE: Please be mindful of our Code of Conduct when commenting. You can find it in the page Notes section. Thank you.]"

    Aside from the "can be viewed as" (which should never make it into an apology) it seems like a pretty good apology

    Tube on
    DelduwathDevoutlyApathetic
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited November 10
    Hardly, when it's the 4th fucking time they've bungled on this front. It's not conspiracy theory, it's pattern recognition. This lot are fuckups to the core at best, and they keep on fucking doing things like this. There is no reason to give them benefit of the doubt any more, and they namedropped that game by fucking Zak Sabbath in the other new book.

    Edit: They're at the point where they have more apologies than releases, ffs.

    Edit:
    Also this:

    Jeep-Eep on
    Neaden
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    it sounds like someone in a leadership position has their head on the chopping block.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    it sounds like someone in a leadership position has their head on the chopping block.

    Didn't they "part ways" with somebody recently?

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Hardly, when it's the 4th fucking time they've bungled on this front. It's not conspiracy theory, it's pattern recognition. This lot are fuckups to the core at best, and they keep on fucking doing things like this. There is no reason to give them benefit of the doubt any more, and they namedropped that game by fucking Zak Sabbath in the other new book.

    Edit: They're at the point where they have more apologies than releases, ffs.

    Edit:
    Also this:

    I’d like to see this in context, because as someone points out this may simply be a reference to this dude:

    http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Joseph_Peterson

    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Oh thank Christ.

  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Hardly, when it's the 4th fucking time they've bungled on this front. It's not conspiracy theory, it's pattern recognition. This lot are fuckups to the core at best, and they keep on fucking doing things like this. There is no reason to give them benefit of the doubt any more, and they namedropped that game by fucking Zak Sabbath in the other new book.

    Edit: They're at the point where they have more apologies than releases, ffs.

    Edit:
    Also this:

    I’d like to see this in context, because as someone points out this may simply be a reference to this dude:

    http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Joseph_Peterson

    The journalist eating thing gives it away, as The Lobster Man has basically gone ITG on that front before, fantasizing about beating them up. It may ref that guy, but with that journalist thing, it smells suggestive, with the track record of NWW.

    I'm just gonna quote PST of RPG.net on them, which basically sums up their bullshit:
    Publishing Transphobic material: check
    Hiring a known harasser, defending the harasser and dismissing the victims: check
    Publishing homophobic material: check
    Including known nazi-supporting codes, while pretending it was a complete mistake: check
    Requiring their licensee to publish transphobic material: check
    Promising they won't do any of this again, and then doing it again: check

    At this point it really doesn't matter whether it's malice or incompetence, because they're still publishing awful content (and, note, on top of that the editing / writing is bloody awful).

    So I don't care if they are secretly rolling around on a bed of swastikas, becuase it's not relevant, what is relevant is what they're publishing. Just as it doesn't matter that a massive gamergate supporter who thinks rape is okay is left wing, because they're still a disgrace.

    And that's what WW are, a disgrace and a mockery of the original. They may have bought the trademarks and IP, but they're absolutely not the company they bought.
    And he forgot to mention Dawkins giving out ID'ing enough stuff that DogWithDice got harassed off the net.

  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    The President of White Wolf just left the company so I kind of expect that it's all a bit chaotic at this moment.

    Nothing about this surprises or confuses me; pushing the edge of real-life-politics-is-secretly-vampire-politics is not something *new* to White Wolf. It's just that there's a small, vocal subgroup of people who as far as I can tell aren't even part of the audience that are outraged that a company would dare to touch upon their issue in a way they don't 100% agree with.

    I don't consider Kadyrov or gay rights in Russia a laughing matter, but the idea that the whole thing is some vampire conspiracy is, inherently, an interesting plot twist if your group is into that sort of thing. (My WW group would not be into that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean I can't analytically see the value in an aside about Kadyrov's purges being a plot.)

    Holden Shearer involving himself and whining about how he screwed himself over, however, was particularly delicious irony. (He's not wrong about Rich Thomas being a questionable character, but his reasoning is obviously self-centered and flawed if you know anything about why he and Morke were fired. Also he's a sexual assault apologist, so there's that.)

    The apology, again, isn't corporate boilerplate. So there's also that.

    There's also the question of whether the fact gay purges are happening in Chechnya (and elsewhere in Russia) is something that should be touched upon by a game most people play explicitly for the escapism. Which just leads to further questions about whether Vampire is actually good escapism given how mired it is in politics.
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    This isn't an analysis. Thankfully, the guy cues you into that in the first freaking tweet by making an appeal to emotion (art is inherently an subjective issue and I happen to quite like the cover art, but maybe I just appreciate shading in a way he doesn't). His use and abuse of logical fallacies rapidly gathers steam from there.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Has this crept into the other 20th Anniversary releases, or just V:TM?

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Has this crept into the other 20th Anniversary releases, or just V:TM?

    iirc, Mage20 backed off heavily from the "X is secretly a Y-type supernatural" and also went out of its way to add inclusive content, but I can't speak for other 20th anniversary releases.

    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Dilige, et quod vis fac
    MrVyngaard
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited November 11
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Has this crept into the other 20th Anniversary releases, or just V:TM?

    Two separate sources that were within OPP at the time have confirmed that NWW forced transphobic content into W:TA 20th.




    You'd have to dig into SA's WOD or their TG(Tabletop games) as an industry thread a bit (not sure which), but it's there.
    Tube wrote: »
    it sounds like someone in a leadership position has their head on the chopping block.
    Wouldn't surprise me at this point, the new Paradox CEO has made noises about willingness to kill underperforming projects in the leadup to her appointment (IIRC), and the constant clusterfucks may be making the licence users and seekers leery, and possibly willing, at least in some cases, to retool to their own homebrew 'verses.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Has this crept into the other 20th Anniversary releases, or just V:TM?

    Two separate sources that were within OPP at the time have confirmed that NWW forced transphobic content into W:TA 20th.




    You'd have to dig into SA's WOD thread a bit, but it's there.
    Tube wrote: »
    it sounds like someone in a leadership position has their head on the chopping block.
    Wouldn't surprise me at this point, the new Paradox CEO has made noises about willingness to kill underperforming projects in the leadup to her appointment (IIRC), and the constant clusterfucks may be making the licence users and seekers leery, and possibly willing, at least in some cases, to retool to their own homebrew 'verses.

    Also, so far the grand plan of stuff like "there will be a Netflix series." Hasn't planned out in the slightest.

    Jeep-Eep
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited November 11
    Why do you think OPP is working so hard on those original IP right now? Edit: There's even talk that Vampyr, that adventure game, might beat them to the punch for a Netflix series.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    I will say one thing, until this controversy, I didn't know that Chechnya was a place nor the real world crap going on there, so it's good that it's in there. However... From what I've seen of posts and reviews, it seems like they are saying that homosexual behavior punished among the Kindred. Like all of Vampire society? Because that's a huge switch from past editions and really a slap to the LGBTQ+ community that found themselves in this game.

  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited November 11
    Not as a whole. And no, they made the crap going down BC vampire, which is both offensive and stupid with the new lore.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    https://white-wolf.com/newsblog/a-message-from-white-wolf

    Tl;dr They've pulled the Camarilla and Anarch books, removed the Chechnya ugliness and are completely restructuring White Wolf into Paradox. This is a good step forward.

    MrVyngaard
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