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Holdem Tourny

AntilleseAntillese Registered User
edited August 2010 in PAX Archive
Would it be worth my time to organize a no-limit holdem poker tournament? I'm thinking that we have a final table on Sunday, and then on Saturday have satellite tables to win your seat at the final. Depending on interest (i.e. how many satellites), we have the top one or two people from each satellite advance to the final table. It would be a freeze out structure for simplicity (meaning no rebuys) and the blinds would steadily increase to make sure that they keep moving along at a brisk pace. I've got a good amount of poker experience to help run this smoothly and I think that there would be many PAX-ers that would be interested in playing "that game on the travel channel where you wear sunglasses and say, 'all in!'"

Before it's asked, this can't be for actual money at PAX due to WA gaming regulations. This doesn't mean that there can't be a cash game in some hotel room later that night! However, I'm sure if there are enough people interested, we could twist a sponsor's arm into providing some lovely parting gifts.

Antillese on
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Posts

  • EQ4EvarOMGOSHEQ4EvarOMGOSH Registered User
    edited April 2004
    lolz PAX is for video games...not card games you silly head!

    lolz 2 u!

    EQ4EvarOMGOSH on
    I play everquest on teh Tribunal server with my level 65 bard and his name is lolimgay lol hes cool
  • AntilleseAntillese Registered User
    edited April 2004
    LOLOL tell that to the people playing Warhammer, Magic, whatever other miniature games people are playing these days, the RPGers, the people that are talking about playing Axis and Allies and the guy who wants to play Go. Seems like there will be plenty of "games" in general video and otherwise.

    Antillese on
  • BogeyBogey I'm back, baby! Santa Monica, CAModerator mod
    edited April 2004
    This sounds like a really great idea!

    If I do end up going to this thing, I'm in.

    Bogey on
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  • Ice1903Ice1903 Registered User
    edited April 2004
    Tycho and Gabe would have to get a gambling license for this. Which I doubt they would want to do.

    Ice1903 on
    ' I'm not addicted to gambling, I'm addicted to sitting in a semi-circle '
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited April 2004
    Hold'em would be great. Simple, balanced, and deep game that can make for some extremely fun times. While it isn't directly related to roleplaying or video games, it's definately the best game to play with friends or strangers as it's always a lot of fun. There was a Hold'em tourney at a 200 Person LAN held in January (http://www.lanpartynw.com) and we had a Hold'em tourney. Two tables, ten people at each. Blinds increased at a somewhat random rate (whenever it seemed reasonable), and overall was a great time. Smack talk, teasing, grudges formed... ah, easily the best time I've ever had at a LAN event. Only problems were with the time it took (about 4-5 hours).

    If we really wanted to go all-out, you could have the tournament stretch across both days. That'd allow sessions of 2-3 hours each day, and an even larger number of people playing as you could have up to four tables.

    You could have a small buy in ($5-$10), but I'm not sure if that'd constitute gambling. Hold'em in a tourney environment is a game of skill, not chance like Blackjack or Five Card Draw would be ... but I'm not majoring in Law so I don't know how the law defines gambling.

    What you could do to possibly circumvent the gambling situation is have the money collected at the start to enter to go to something like Kids Play, then have Penny Arcade drum up some prizes worthy of the amount of money invested by competitors.

    Hold'em is easily the most fun game you can play with other people that still maintains skill and strategy even when playing against newcomers to the game. I've yet to see a computer, console, or board game that comes close to the competition or comraderie that comes in a Texas Hold'em tourney... and I've only been in one!


    Make the tourney cash entries benefit some charity, as it'll help justify anything that could resemble gambling not to mention make for more fun than any game or tournament at the event. Win or lose, you'd have fun and help benefit the less fortunate.

    Fall on
  • AntilleseAntillese Registered User
    edited April 2004
    Again, there would be no money changing hands. It would not be gambling. Pretty simple that way. This would be a free tournament for fun just like every other tournament (Halo, Guilty Gear XX etc) and is open to all who want to play and I have space for.

    Let's not make it out to be something it is not. It is not going to be a fundraiser. It is not going to be a winner goes home a single dime richer kind of event. It's a bunch of people in a room playing a game like everyone else. We'd just be keeping score with chips. It's that simple.

    Antillese on
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited April 2004
    No prizes?

    Without anything on the line, there's no reason to even play Texas Hold'em. Otherwise you get people going all-in just because they want to go get another soda. Hold'em tournaments are long events compared to a simple five minute match in Soul Calibur 2. All but the most dedicated person to the game will not want to play a full tournament just "for fun", but because there's something to compete for.

    Try playing Texas Hold'em online in one of the many free places. It's fun for a few hands, but after that it's lame. People betting a lot before any cards are shown, people playing horrible hands just because they want to quit or because if they lose there's no punishment, and lots of people playing carelessly because they have no reason to want to win. You don't need money, but "just for fun" is no way to play Hold'em. With something on the line, play styles change drastically and makes the game much more interesting.

    Most LAN centers hold tournaments for computer games and charge a small fee to enter. None of them have gambling licenses.

    Tourney Hold'em is completely different than limit play that you'd find at casinos. About as much related to gambling as would playing a match of Counter-Strike or a round of Mario Kart.

    I did a bit of research, and while gambling is defined in the state of Washington as "staking or risking something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under the person's control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome" it seems to be common for Texas Hold'em to be considered a game of chance (it isn't) and even while no one makes a profit from the tournament (except the players). So by this definition, a Texas Hold'em tourney would not be gambling in the state of Washington.

    It makes little sense to me as to how a Hold'em tourney could be considered gambling when it's common practice for LANs and LAN centers to hold tournaments that result in the winner taking a portion of entry fees with no cut to the "house". Or perhaps those LAN Centers are breaking the law... which makes even less sense.

    Looking a bit further I found this definition of a "Game of amusement" in Washington Gaming Law:

    (1) The contestant actively participates;

    (2) The outcome depends in a material degree upon the skill of the contestant;

    (3) Only merchandise prizes are awarded;

    (4) The outcome is not in the control of the operator;

    (5) The wagers are placed, the winners are determined, and a distribution of prizes or property is made in the presence of all persons placing wagers at such game; and

    (6) Said game is conducted or operated by any agricultural fair, person, association, or organization in such manner and at such locations as may be authorized by rules and regulations adopted by the commission pursuant to this chapter as now or hereafter amended.
    "


    Skill-based games are under the user's control, and thus do not fit the criteria of gambling. Only merchandise prizes would be awarded. So games like chess, hold'em, and many board games and nearly every video game would fit under the definition of "game of amusement" and would not be gambling.

    EDIT: It slipped by me, but makes a major change to my initial conclusion. Note the "and" at the end of point five, as it means that if any wagers are placed the location must be "authorized". So yeah, LAN centers and LANs that hold tournaments with entry-fees and split up the rewards are illegal unless they have a license to do so (and none of the LAN centers or LANs I've heard of do).


    My information is taken from this web site:

    http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Washington/

    Fall on
  • Zig21Zig21 Registered User regular
    edited April 2004
    would be a free tournament for fun just like every other tournament (Halo, Guilty Gear XX etc)

    Console tournies are sponsored and the winner gets some pretty expensive prizes, so it's not just all for shits and giggles.

    Zig21 on
    Born to Duck
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited April 2004
    I believe there are going to be prizes for most of the tournaments for the console and PC (it's said on the PAX site), but nothing is specified for board or card games.

    I sure hope they put some limits on the tournaments, because as it is it seems like there's a lack of definition as to which games are going to have tournaments or even as to how they are chosen. Seems like everyone believes every game they want is going to get a tourney.

    I've seen people ask for tournaments on the console for Halo, Soul Calibur 2, Super Smash Brothers, Splinter Cell:PT, Guilty Gear XX (It keeps getting mentioned, although I haven't seen anyone ask for it), and a bunch of other games.

    I hope some kind of list is put together before people begin planning the tournaments they'd like to see, because at the rate requests are popping up there just won't be enough time in two days to run them unless they're butchered to be total newbie fests... which tends to happen a lot at day events. :(

    Fall on
  • Zig21Zig21 Registered User regular
    edited April 2004
    Fallout-I'm running SC2 and GGXX, so those two are for sure. Smash Bros. is confirmed as well, as it's being run by some of the local players. If people want Halo, there will more than likely be some stations available so long as someone is willing to organize and run it. As for the PC games, I don't know anything about that.

    Zig21 on
    Born to Duck
  • Zig21Zig21 Registered User regular
    edited April 2004
    Update: A list of official tournies and rules should be posted to the PAX site as early as tonight.

    Zig21 on
    Born to Duck
  • AntilleseAntillese Registered User
    edited April 2004
    OK everyone, I think we're all taking this a bit too seriously. I thought it would be fun to have a holdem tournament. Is it poker? No. Poker involves money. This will not be poker. If people want to play poker, then I would suggest going to Muckleshoot which is less than an hour away from Bellevue. Did I think that it would be fun to play some cards with people that have similar interests to myself at a big gaming con? Yes. PAX poker would be for fun, to throw chips around and hang out. My attitude is that if you're going to play the game, you may as well structure it realistically because it is more fun for the people that can't go sit down at a 4/8 at their local card room.

    I'm going to provide a few facts. Read them and then see if it's you.

    -No limit holdem run by an avid poker player.
    -No money.
    -Not likely to be "official" so very doubtful that there will be prizes of any sort.
    -Very probable that there will be lots of people new to the game, which means that the game will be loose, your bluffs will get called and nobody will respect your raises. Your AKs will likely lose to the guy who called a reraise under the gun with 59 because he "had a feeling" and will flop a full house. The game will probably move slowly to boot.

    That being said, it seems like there is enough interest for me to warrant bringing my chips and getting a more official head count via the forums in a few months when PAX is more imminent.

    If this sounds like you, bring cool sunglasses and a really stupid hat and see if we can get Gabe or Tycho to run cocktails for us. If it's not, I'll see you in the GGXX tournament where my Jam is predicted to go down hard in the second round. Really hard.

    Antillese on
  • Robert KhooRobert Khoo Registered User, ClubPA staff
    edited May 2004
    So to get this convo started again, we can definitely have hold 'em tournament. There will be no buy in, but the winner would receive prizes put up by PA, just like any of the other tournaments. If people are still interested, please let me know and we can make it official.

    -robert

    Robert Khoo on
    Some guy.
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited May 2004
    I'd be interested with a holdem tournament. would be fun to play with people other than my friends.

    khain on
  • switchstanceswitchstance Registered User
    edited May 2004
    I'd play I guess.

    switchstance on
    test1.jpg
  • BorfaseBorfase __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2004
    I just learned how to play Texas Hold 'Em last night, and I had a great time playing it. I'd be down for a tournament.

    And also, later in the night, if you gents want to play for some real cash, I'd be down too.... :wink:

    Borfase on
    duhhhh i like spaghetti-o's lolz
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited June 2004
    I'm in for some cards. Tell me where to be, I'm there.

    Robb

    Unknown User on
  • OknarkOknark Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2004
    I'm in.

    Oknark on
    skelesign.jpg
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited June 2004
    Key to a Hold'em tourney is that more than the first place will get a prize. Most tournaments opt for 1/5 to 1/3 of the participants getting prizes (albiet small ones), but offering prizes for third to first place would suffice assuming we wouldn't have more than a couple tables.

    Fall on
  • LegacyLegacy SCP Of The Digital Frontier The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2004
    Sure...I'll play.

    I played some this weekend and kicked some ass...

    Maybe it was beginners luck. :|

    Legacy on
    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
  • BorfaseBorfase __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2004
    I lost money and I still had fun.

    Borfase on
    duhhhh i like spaghetti-o's lolz
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited June 2004
    Usually total newbies to the game can do extremely well if they're not playing people well versed in the finer points of the game. You'll see this a lot of times when playing online (low limit cash or free games) as usually some person playing absolutely garbage hands to the river can pull a nice string of cards. I was playing in a $5 buy in tournament online a few nights back and one guy went all-in from the first hand until the fifth and eliminated six people from the table. He never even had a hand that was worth calling from even the latest position on the table, yet was able to trounce people playing stuff like AKs due to lucky flops.

    I'd say a total newbie playing randomly can get further in a single-table tournament than a newer player who isn't calculating the odds on his hand and the pot but is trying to play conservative. Of course, in a ring game a total newbie will tend to go broke as time wears on as it only takes one good player to bleed a bad one. It's easier to get a string of cards in a small tournament game than it is in a multi-table setup or ring game. Newbies can get insane luck, but over time they'll lose. Since single-table tournaments play quickly for the most part, that bit of luck can carry them far. Good play tends to give much more consistant results, and if you know tournament basics you can consistantly do well in smaller tournaments. I had a streak going over the past week of finishing in the cash in six low buy in tournaments online, with three wins in a row. It's amazing how careless people are when playing online in the lower limit games.

    A big free hold'em tournament would be the highlight of the PAX in my book. Only problem will be chips, as it seems like it'd be easy to fill four tables at the event and it'd be a pain in the ass to play with mixed sets of chips. I only have enough chips for a two table tournament and they're the simple plastic kind. This, unlike the other tournaments require quite a bit of equipment to run smoothly.

    Antliese, how many chips can you bring to the event?

    And it's poker, money or not. Poker is defined by a card game involving rounds of betting and trying to have the best hand. Even if the chips have no value, you're still betting chips.

    Fall on
  • Seth410Seth410 Registered User
    edited June 2004
    I've never played cards before, :wink: but I'll give it a try :D

    Seth410 on
    Member of Room 520 (04)/512 (05) ...and then some other rooms in 06 and 07, I lost track.
  • AntilleseAntillese Registered User
    edited June 2004
    I've got my set of 500, and I'm sure I can get another set of 500. Since I've run regular ring games at home and had 17 people playing at once (yes, two tables) I'm not too concerned about chips.

    Sounds like there is enough interest to do this. I'd say that we can expect to have some kind of mini-tourney at PAX. However, please keep in mind that I'm planning on doing other things at PAX than running this. I need to be able to go out in the second round with Jam in the GGXX tournament to feel good about myself and I know that I want to get in on some pickup UT2k4 and Frozen Throne games.

    This being said, if anyone has some reasonable poker experience and would like to help please PM me. Though I will be flattered by offers from anyone who volunteers, we won't have time for training. If you know the difference between antes and blinds, when to burn cards and which suit beats which in a showdown it would be more fun for everyone involved. And yes, I know that one of those is a trick question.

    Finally, yes I'm sure that I could help facilitate an after-hours game if there's interest. That however will be spur of the moment. I'd rather focus this thread's energy on getting a well-organized tournament off the ground.

    Slightly off topic, I run a regular game in greater Portland. If there is anyone who is interested, PM me for details so we can keep this thread relatively PAX related.

    Antillese on
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited June 2004
    Clubs always beat Diamonds!

    I sent you a PM about helping run the tournament. I too will be playing in other tournaments (PC only), so hopefully this tournament will occur without interfering much with those.

    I've co-run a tournament at the start of the year at a large LAN that went smoothly, and regularly play in online cash and tournament games as well as a few smaller tournaments at the local casinos.

    Fall on
  • nebula_nebula_ Registered User
    edited July 2004
    i would totally be up for a hold'em tourney. so definately count me in on that one.

    just a note: a good way for people to learn how to play hold'em is to play on paradise poker at the 2 cent tables. The stakes are so low they're pretty much insignificant, and the players are infinitely better than the ones at the free tables. also, paradise poker has free tournaments sometimes.

    nebula_ on
  • uc4lifeuc4life Registered User regular
    edited July 2004
    Free and ultra low stakes tables are nice to learn the rules of the game but not how to play and bet in actual games. People bet completely different when there is little or no money on the line.

    uc4life on
    haha, i can see a group of people in furry suits with an orca dong in each hand, spinning like a windmill for freedom.
  • nebula_nebula_ Registered User
    edited July 2004
    would anyone be interested in a blackjack tourney?

    nebula_ on
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited August 2004
    Wow, this thread is over two months old. Antillese, are you still up for running a late-night Hold'em tournament?

    I'm handling all the PC tournaments in the day so I'm not going to volunteer to handle this, but I can bring two sets of cheap plastic chips (600 chips total) if no one else can. 600 chips can work for a two table tournament (20 people) although with some slightly unorthodox blinds and starting chips.

    We really don't have much time left before the event, so if we're going to do this we need to get the specifics worked out by Friday morning. I'd be happy to help with the tournament if needed, but I'm not going to have time to plan it.

    Fall on
  • stabn_stabn_ Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    I have a set of composite 11.5g chips if you need another set brought and if this is still on.

    stabn_

    stabn_ on
    Slytherin Headboy: Order of the Phoenix!
  • FallFall Registered User
    edited August 2004
    If anyone can bring some more 11.5g sets it'd be great. We could make due with two sets, but would prefer enough for three to four tables. I'll still bring my two sets of plastic chips in case no one else comes through. Mixed chips can be kinda lame, but not as lame as no game at all!

    I don't have any decent decks of cards, so that's something that someone else will have to bring.

    Fall on
  • stabn_stabn_ Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    i have enough decks for probably two tables (four decks total). it would definitely be good to have more though.

    stabn_ on
    Slytherin Headboy: Order of the Phoenix!
  • WhitePantherWhitePanther Registered User
    edited August 2004
    If this is going to be at PAX, I'm all for picking up some .99 decks at Target before I leave tomorrow night. I've heard some people were wanting to play in the hotel though? If you're planning on playing in the hotel, I don't know if I'd be able to drag myself over there with you (not staying at Doubletree. *waves off chorus of boos*)

    WhitePanther on
  • stabn_stabn_ Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    from what i understand we're talking there at PAX. Of course some people could meet later...

    stabn_ on
    Slytherin Headboy: Order of the Phoenix!
  • RickPowersRickPowers Registered User
    edited August 2004
    No offense intended, but I have to agree with some of the earlier posters. No money, no point. Having something at stake is what makes the bets themselves important. Having a significant buy-in, isn't just to "make it interesting", it's pretty much the heart of the game. You can't even pretend that you're playing for money, because your brain knows the difference. Anyone here that's played Hold 'Em for actual money knows what I'm talking about.

    It's the risk that makes the reward so sweet. It's the risk that makes the tough beat the thing you'll remember for YEARS. When you're not risking anything, winning is nice, but losing it no big deal, and that tempers the entire environment. I have never been to a "free" tournament where you could feel the tension in the room. Not to mention the fact that there is a great deal of strategy that takes place when someone knows that if they tighten up their play a little, they can outlast someone more reckless and make it "into the money", or that if they rake in one more hand, they could place higher and earn a higher cash prize. Not to mention that money is pretty much a universal language. Prizes (not that there will be any here) have varied value depending on who is appraising them. Money is the same all around.

    Sorry to wax all philosophical on you guys, but Hold 'Em is something I'm pretty passionate about, and having played a great deal of free and cash tournaments, I can tell you from experience that Hold' Em without money is NOT Hold' Em. It's pretty much a different game entirely. If you want to play that, more power to you.

    RickPowers on
    Rick Powers
    IT Director, Senior Editor
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  • AvenroshAvenrosh Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    RickPowers wrote:
    No money, no point.

    But still, you guys shouldn't go with large sums... Hate to see things get out of hand here.

    Avenrosh on
  • YoshuaYoshua Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    I'd definitly be down for playing Hold'em. Don't care if it's not for real money or prizes, I just love the game.

    I even enjoy playing some of the more rediculous people who play for nothing. There is some satisfaction in trouncing a table of dupes with the almighty 10-2 off suit (that is a very bad hand btw, but the table I was at was full of people who just bet for the sake of betting).

    Yoshua on
  • AvenroshAvenrosh Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    You know what is an awesome game? Cheat. Where you play cards face down and bluff people into believing the cards are the ones you call. If they challenge it, and you were lying, you get the whole pile. If you are telling the truth, they get the whole thing.

    I once actually got a group of guys to believe there are 6 aces in a deck. (in that game)

    Good times.

    Avenrosh on
  • stabn_stabn_ Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    No offense intended

    I think this is basically a don't rain on everyone elses parade if you aren't interested situation :).

    stabn_ on
    Slytherin Headboy: Order of the Phoenix!
  • NintoNinto Registered User regular
    edited August 2004
    I'll play and/or deal - do we have a space or time for it at PAX itself?

    Ninto on
This discussion has been closed.