I'm pretty sure it's Hobbit 1+2 then the shit between the Hobbit and Rings. The first two films are titled Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey and Hobbit: There and Back Again.
Other than the failed excursion into Moria and the fate of the other dwarves from the Company there's not much more to tell that the prologue/world building of Fellowship didn't cover IMO.
Unless, as the article indicates, the expanded material they are doing doesn't finish off the Necromancer and Dol Guldur story.
Someone else said this before, but I could see it like this:
Movie 1: Everything in the Hobbit up to Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire - getting rescued by the eagles. Also in this, flashbacks to Gandalf in Dol Guldur meeting Thrain Oakenshield, getting the key, the map, etc.
Movie 2: Beorn, Mirkwood, the White Council taking down Dol Guldur, the dwarves escaping the palace by barrels
Movie 3: The rest (lake town, the climb up the mountain, bilbo + smaug, smaug laying waste to lake town, 5 armies)
the only problem with this is that the first movie is a bit action heavy. it hits the trolls, the giants (the lightning & thunder in the mountains), the goblin-town, goblin town escape, riddles in the dark, then the goblin/warg '15 birds in 5 fir trees' scene all in one movie.. might be a bit much, pacing wise, but the beorn recap works as a perfect movie break.
Yeah, I have to wonder if Jackson is going to change his mind about the first film being "locked" at this point. I know we're only a scant four months from release, but if you keep each movie to around two hours apiece or so, there's a lot you can tuck into that first film without getting to Mirkwood or the Elvenking.
Personally, I think we're going to spend a ton of time in the Shire at the open of the first film. Not only do you have all the scuttlebutt and run-up to Bilbo meeting Gandalf and the Dwarves (which could take a lot of screentime in and of itself), but you also have the framing devices with Ian Holm and Elijah Wood to put into play. We could easily be in the Shire for the first 30-45 minutes of the film, and depending on the running time that might be close to a third of that film's length. That would put "Riddles in the Dark" as the more reasonable stopping point for Film One, then for Film Two you could stop with either the escape from Thranduil or the attack on Lake Town, and the last film would be all about the Battle of Five Armies.
I hear you, but I think that Riddles is a weird place to stop the movie. It sort of works as a cliffhanger, but then you get the pretty abrupt action scene in the whole wargs and goblins scene. If it works like you say, it will probably cut right before Riddles starts, using Golum as the teaser for the next one.
I still think that film 2 would stop as the dwarves are going into barrels - if they do stop 1 at riddles, stopping 2 any later would make it too long IMO. Mainly because you have to remember that the White Council attack on Dol Guldur starts basically as they enter Mirkwood. So:
-Riddles in the Dark
-Frying Pan
-Beorn
-Mirkwood gloom
-Spiders
-Elves/Capture
-Imprisonment
-Escape
-White Council start to finish
Thats why I say Beorn is a better split point.
The only thing thats confusing is the White Council fight against Dol Guldur - where were the dwarves when the actual fight started? I would think that for travel time, for Gandalf to get back right before the 5 army war, they would have to be finished before lake-town got burned down, but it says that Gandalf planned the attacks to prevent Smaug and Sauron from helping each other..
Admittedly I'm being too lazy to look it up and just using the animated Hobbit, they were just starting off into Mirkwood when Gandalf left them which, with Dol Guldur being towards the southern edge was a perfect time for Gandalf to go do some recon or join the attack.
March 15, 2941 - Thorin Oakenshield meets with Gandalf the Grey at the Prancing Pony in Bree, the Quest of Erebor begins
July, 2941 - Bilbo Baggins obtains the One Ring; the White Council drives Sauron out of Dol Guldur
October, 2941 - Esgaroth is attacked by the dragon Smaug, who is consequentially killed by Bard the Bowman; Thorin Oakenshield, Fíli, and Kíli killed at the Battle of Five Armies along with Bolg son of Azog; Dáin II Ironfoot becomes King of The Lonely Mountain; Town of Dale reestablished by Bard
I think that Bilbo and the dwarves spend a good while in the halls of Thranduil, which would explain the two months between leaving the Misty Mountains and the attack of Smaug.
March 15, 2941 - Thorin Oakenshield meets with Gandalf the Grey at the Prancing Pony in Bree, the Quest of Erebor begins
July, 2941 - Bilbo Baggins obtains the One Ring; the White Council drives Sauron out of Dol Guldur
October, 2941 - Esgaroth is attacked by the dragon Smaug, who is consequentially killed by Bard the Bowman; Thorin Oakenshield, Fíli, and Kíli killed at the Battle of Five Armies along with Bolg son of Azog; Dáin II Ironfoot becomes King of The Lonely Mountain; Town of Dale reestablished by Bard
I think that Bilbo and the dwarves spend a good while in the halls of Thranduil, which would explain the two months between leaving the Misty Mountains and the attack of Smaug.
This just raises further questions.
July:
- Bilbo gets the One Ring inside the Misty Mountains, regroups with the dwarves, all of whom get rescued by the eagles and dropped off a couple days later near Beorn's place
-Bilbo & Co. stay with Beorn for a few days, then head towards Mirkwood. IIRC, this journey takes about a week.
-At Mirkwood, Gandalf leaves for the White Council meeting in (I'm assuming) Rivendell - at least a week or so to get back there, probably more since he either had to go back through the Misty Mountains or head through Moria or all the way south to the Gap of Rohan. Keep in mind, this is before he had Shadowfax too, so his speed is limited.
-Then the White Council meets and heads out to kick out the Necromancer
-The dwarves get captured by the Mirkwood elves
This all makes sense to take place in one month's time, but then what the hell was Gandalf doing after Dol Guldur? Presumably, the dwarves were prisoners for all of August, and most of September, then the journey down the river to Dale took about a week or so (any longer and the dwarves would have died of dehydration/starvation). So where was Gandalf in August and September?
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Perhaps Jackson could also be filming a longer prologue (or flashback sequence) of Smaug's attack on the Lonely Mountain, Thorin & company's exile to the Blue Mountains, etc.? If he wanted to, he could even have battle scenes at Moria -- there was some sort of action there including Thorin between Smaug's takeover of Erebor and the events of the Hobbit, and then there's Balin's attempt to retake Moria prior to LOTR.
But I don't see any reason to think you need these things in a Hobbit movie.
Well I'm flipping through my copy of The Hobbit, and here's a couple of interesting things:
-Bilbo and the dwarves spend two weeks in Laketown mooching off the Mayor before they leave for Erebor.
-In Chapter 11, Bilbo and the dwarves have been trying unsuccessfully to open to secret door into the mountain, when Thorin says (paragraph 24, if you're curious) "Tomorrow begins the last week of autumn," which is totally bizarre if they're still in October.
March 15, 2941 - Thorin Oakenshield meets with Gandalf the Grey at the Prancing Pony in Bree, the Quest of Erebor begins
July, 2941 - Bilbo Baggins obtains the One Ring; the White Council drives Sauron out of Dol Guldur
October, 2941 - Esgaroth is attacked by the dragon Smaug, who is consequentially killed by Bard the Bowman; Thorin Oakenshield, Fíli, and Kíli killed at the Battle of Five Armies along with Bolg son of Azog; Dáin II Ironfoot becomes King of The Lonely Mountain; Town of Dale reestablished by Bard
I think that Bilbo and the dwarves spend a good while in the halls of Thranduil, which would explain the two months between leaving the Misty Mountains and the attack of Smaug.
This just raises further questions.
July:
- Bilbo gets the One Ring inside the Misty Mountains, regroups with the dwarves, all of whom get rescued by the eagles and dropped off a couple days later near Beorn's place
-Bilbo & Co. stay with Beorn for a few days, then head towards Mirkwood. IIRC, this journey takes about a week.
-At Mirkwood, Gandalf leaves for the White Council meeting in (I'm assuming) Rivendell - at least a week or so to get back there, probably more since he either had to go back through the Misty Mountains or head through Moria or all the way south to the Gap of Rohan. Keep in mind, this is before he had Shadowfax too, so his speed is limited.
-Then the White Council meets and heads out to kick out the Necromancer
-The dwarves get captured by the Mirkwood elves
This all makes sense to take place in one month's time, but then what the hell was Gandalf doing after Dol Guldur? Presumably, the dwarves were prisoners for all of August, and most of September, then the journey down the river to Dale took about a week or so (any longer and the dwarves would have died of dehydration/starvation). So where was Gandalf in August and September?
I think it's much more probable that Gandalf did not go back to Rivendell, but instead met with the White Council in Lothlorien, which was much closer to Dol Guldur. Additionally, it should be taken into account that Dol Guldur is at the very south end of Mirkwood, which is a very large forest. According to the map in my copy of the Atlas of Middle-Earth, the distance from Dol Guldur to the Lonely Mountain is about the same distance as it is from Beorn's House to the Lonely Mountain!
The timeline isn't really an issue. They spend a decent amount of time in the dungeon of the Wood Elf King and possibly even more time living it up at Laketown.
The timeline isn't an issue for the dwarves, but Gandalf's timeline is a little tricky. I'm beginning to think a fight and victory against the Necromancer in July doesn't really make sense with the amount of distance he had to travel between Beorn's house where he left the dwarves and Lothlorien.
Unless he was able to whistle for an eagle to get him there faster, perhaps? It would make sense that he would have then had to make his own way from Lothlorien to Erebor after the battle. I do think that he probably spent a good amount of time with the White Council in Lothlorien after the battle as well, mopping up Dol Guldur and recuperating.
It's not that big of an issue. He's on a fast horse and just meets them there. He's got about half the month to get there and apparently the fight was no big deal.
Don't they spend another week or so exploring the Lonely Mountain after Smaug leaves? The timeline does seem arbitrary for Ring found --> welp Dol Guldur is all finished up, what were we doing again?
Oh shit, battle of five armies!
The most I can see is Gandalf learning about Bolg's attack, but then Beorn pretty much tells him anyways so it's just leaving it up to loads of travel time to make up time to the battle.
I'm beginning to think some of you believe PJ won't just fuck the timeline and do whatever the fuck works best for the movie's narrative.
Exactly. He had a platoon of elves show up at Helm's Deep to build a bit of hope. And it worked.
Indeed.
The more I think about it, as long as PJ doesn't go for broke with the running times of the these films (keeping them in the 2/2.5-hour ballpark), there's plenty to pad out The Hobbit story with. The Battles of Five Armies and Dol Guldur could easily fill 30-45 minutes each and become the centerpieces of their respective films.
My problem with big battles is that at this stage I'm not sure they're that much of a draw any more, unless there's something really different about them - even Pellenor Fields was cool but too long after The Two Towers' Helm's Deep - or there's a strong emotional link.
In addition, while I'm definitely curious about Jackson's films, I liked The Return of the King least, and that film felt like Jackson had no one who'd keep his fan over-enthusiasm in check by saying, "Yeah, but wouldn't less be more in this case?" Jackson's shown both the strength and the weakness of his generous at best, self-indulgent at worst approach with LotR and King Kong, and at this stage I'm not sure how much I trust him not to be self-indulgent.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
My problem with big battles is that at this stage I'm not sure they're that much of a draw any more, unless there's something really different about them - even Pellenor Fields was cool but too long after The Two Towers' Helm's Deep - or there's a strong emotional link.
In addition, while I'm definitely curious about Jackson's films, I liked The Return of the King least, and that film felt like Jackson had no one who'd keep his fan over-enthusiasm in check by saying, "Yeah, but wouldn't less be more in this case?" Jackson's shown both the strength and the weakness of his generous at best, self-indulgent at worst approach with LotR and King Kong, and at this stage I'm not sure how much I trust him not to be self-indulgent.
Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Jackson has shown how to be incredibly successful and terribly unsuccessful within a very short span of films. I remain optimistic, but mostly because I want to be optimistic. Time, of course, will tell.
For my money, however, Helm's Deep was the best battle in the trilogy, and it was so because of the strong emotional payoffs woven throughout the battle. It was where Aragorn first shows his strength as a leader of men, where Aragorn and Theoden rally their people in the face of certain death, Haldir's sacrifice of immortality for the lives of Men, and the start of the really great rapport between Legolas and Gimli.
The Battle of Pellinor Fields lacks impact for several reasons; we know it's not the final battle of the film, the people of Gondor are kind of weak-willed bastards, Denethor is an asshole, and Faromir is a ponce.
The Battle of Pellinor Fields lacks impact for several reasons; we know it's not the final battle of the film, the people of Gondor are kind of weak-willed bastards, Denethor is an asshole, and Faromir is a ponce.
To my mind it's very much a case of "We have to top Helm's Deep". It goes for a more, more, more approach, but it resonates less. It's not bad and it's got great moments (I love the scene where Gandalf tells Pippin that death may not be all that bad), but I care more about Theoden than about all the Gondorians combined.
I just hope that Jackson doesn't end up with too much of a George Lucas entourage, where no one tells him when he's speaking out of his ass. Jackson's got much more talent, but he needs someone or something to reign in his fanboy-meets-five year old child enthusiasm at times.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Other than the failed excursion into Moria and the fate of the other dwarves from the Company there's not much more to tell that the prologue/world building of Fellowship didn't cover IMO.
Unless, as the article indicates, the expanded material they are doing doesn't finish off the Necromancer and Dol Guldur story.
If you check out the appendix for the Return of the King there's some cool stuff in that time. Aragorn is growing up (he's like 10 or something at the time of the hobbit IIRC). He spends time in Rohan under another name kicking ass and taking names. Then again in Gondor where he is a rival of Denethor and leads a huge raid against the corsairs of Umbar.
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Part of the issue is we get a whole movie hanging with the Rhohirim, so we care about them.
We never get any scenes with Gondorians except as faceless cowardly mooks.
This is true. Also, what little we know of Gondorians isn't good.
- Boromir: A good guy, but nearly a murdering jackass, and jealous of Aragorn
- Faromir: A jello-legged ponce who won't stand up to his dipshit of a dad
- Denethor: Dipshit of a dad. And a petty, incompetent tyrant. Also, completely crazy.
- Isildur: Just fucking ruined everything for everyone.
- The Gondorian Calvary: Pathetically stupid military force that will ride pointlessly into certain doom
Part of the issue is we get a whole movie hanging with the Rhohirim, so we care about them.
We never get any scenes with Gondorians except as faceless cowardly mooks.
This is true. Also, what little we know of Gondorians isn't good.
- Boromir: A good guy, but nearly a murdering jackass, and jealous of Aragorn
- Faromir: A jello-legged ponce who won't stand up to his dipshit of a dad
- Denethor: Dipshit of a dad. And a petty, incompetent tyrant. Also, completely crazy.
- Isildur: Just fucking ruined everything for everyone.
- The Gondorian Calvary: Pathetically stupid military force that will ride pointlessly into certain doom
That and their city/kingdom is in decline.
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
Part of the issue is we get a whole movie hanging with the Rhohirim, so we care about them.
We never get any scenes with Gondorians except as faceless cowardly mooks.
This is true. Also, what little we know of Gondorians isn't good.
- Boromir: A good guy, but nearly a murdering jackass, and jealous of Aragorn
- Faromir: A jello-legged ponce who won't stand up to his dipshit of a dad
- Denethor: Dipshit of a dad. And a petty, incompetent tyrant. Also, completely crazy.
- Isildur: Just fucking ruined everything for everyone.
- The Gondorian Calvary: Pathetically stupid military force that will ride pointlessly into certain doom
That and their city/kingdom is in decline.
Well, it's in a bad neighborhood.
They're a stone's throw from Mordor. There's probably fifteen pawn shops and check cashing stores on the lower level of the White City alone.
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
Part of the issue is we get a whole movie hanging with the Rhohirim, so we care about them.
We never get any scenes with Gondorians except as faceless cowardly mooks.
This is true. Also, what little we know of Gondorians isn't good.
- Boromir: A good guy, but nearly a murdering jackass, and jealous of Aragorn
- Faromir: A jello-legged ponce who won't stand up to his dipshit of a dad
- Denethor: Dipshit of a dad. And a petty, incompetent tyrant. Also, completely crazy.
- Isildur: Just fucking ruined everything for everyone.
- The Gondorian Calvary: Pathetically stupid military force that will ride pointlessly into certain doom
That and their city/kingdom is in decline.
Well, it's in a bad neighborhood.
They're a stone's throw from Mordor. There's probably fifteen pawn shops and check cashing stores on the lower level of the White City alone.
And we all saw what a resounding success the gentrification of Osgiliath was.
book faramir was a friggen hero who was not even tempted by the one ring.
Nah, book Faramir was an even bigger ponce than movie Faramir.
In the books he was completely one-dimensional and was more chivalrous than Galahad, and basically had me wishing I could stick my fist into the book and punch his pure and gallant face.
Movie Faramir is a bit of a spineless pussy when it comes to facing Denethor, but he at least had some depth.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
book faramir was a friggen hero who was not even tempted by the one ring.
Nah, book Faramir was an even bigger ponce than movie Faramir.
In the books he was completely one-dimensional and was more chivalrous than Galahad, and basically had me wishing I could stick my fist into the book and punch his pure and gallant face.
Movie Faramir is a bit of a spineless pussy when it comes to facing Denethor, but he at least had some depth.
book faramir was a friggen hero who was not even tempted by the one ring.
Nah, book Faramir was an even bigger ponce than movie Faramir.
In the books he was completely one-dimensional and was more chivalrous than Galahad, and basically had me wishing I could stick my fist into the book and punch his pure and gallant face.
Movie Faramir is a bit of a spineless pussy when it comes to facing Denethor, but he at least had some depth.
Faramir stands up to his father better than Boromir did.
They both desired to "save Gondor", and considered the ring as a means to do so. Boromir, fueled by a desire to (continue to) please his father, made a grab for it.
Faramir, never the favorite, still had the strength to be his own man and not a pawn of his father's, when tempted by the Ring.
Posts
Unless, as the article indicates, the expanded material they are doing doesn't finish off the Necromancer and Dol Guldur story.
Yeah, I have to wonder if Jackson is going to change his mind about the first film being "locked" at this point. I know we're only a scant four months from release, but if you keep each movie to around two hours apiece or so, there's a lot you can tuck into that first film without getting to Mirkwood or the Elvenking.
Personally, I think we're going to spend a ton of time in the Shire at the open of the first film. Not only do you have all the scuttlebutt and run-up to Bilbo meeting Gandalf and the Dwarves (which could take a lot of screentime in and of itself), but you also have the framing devices with Ian Holm and Elijah Wood to put into play. We could easily be in the Shire for the first 30-45 minutes of the film, and depending on the running time that might be close to a third of that film's length. That would put "Riddles in the Dark" as the more reasonable stopping point for Film One, then for Film Two you could stop with either the escape from Thranduil or the attack on Lake Town, and the last film would be all about the Battle of Five Armies.
I still think that film 2 would stop as the dwarves are going into barrels - if they do stop 1 at riddles, stopping 2 any later would make it too long IMO. Mainly because you have to remember that the White Council attack on Dol Guldur starts basically as they enter Mirkwood. So:
-Riddles in the Dark
-Frying Pan
-Beorn
-Mirkwood gloom
-Spiders
-Elves/Capture
-Imprisonment
-Escape
-White Council start to finish
Thats why I say Beorn is a better split point.
The only thing thats confusing is the White Council fight against Dol Guldur - where were the dwarves when the actual fight started? I would think that for travel time, for Gandalf to get back right before the 5 army war, they would have to be finished before lake-town got burned down, but it says that Gandalf planned the attacks to prevent Smaug and Sauron from helping each other..
Indeed, sir.
Master of Lake Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Arda
I think that Bilbo and the dwarves spend a good while in the halls of Thranduil, which would explain the two months between leaving the Misty Mountains and the attack of Smaug.
This just raises further questions.
July:
- Bilbo gets the One Ring inside the Misty Mountains, regroups with the dwarves, all of whom get rescued by the eagles and dropped off a couple days later near Beorn's place
-Bilbo & Co. stay with Beorn for a few days, then head towards Mirkwood. IIRC, this journey takes about a week.
-At Mirkwood, Gandalf leaves for the White Council meeting in (I'm assuming) Rivendell - at least a week or so to get back there, probably more since he either had to go back through the Misty Mountains or head through Moria or all the way south to the Gap of Rohan. Keep in mind, this is before he had Shadowfax too, so his speed is limited.
-Then the White Council meets and heads out to kick out the Necromancer
-The dwarves get captured by the Mirkwood elves
This all makes sense to take place in one month's time, but then what the hell was Gandalf doing after Dol Guldur? Presumably, the dwarves were prisoners for all of August, and most of September, then the journey down the river to Dale took about a week or so (any longer and the dwarves would have died of dehydration/starvation). So where was Gandalf in August and September?
But I don't see any reason to think you need these things in a Hobbit movie.
-Bilbo and the dwarves spend two weeks in Laketown mooching off the Mayor before they leave for Erebor.
-In Chapter 11, Bilbo and the dwarves have been trying unsuccessfully to open to secret door into the mountain, when Thorin says (paragraph 24, if you're curious) "Tomorrow begins the last week of autumn," which is totally bizarre if they're still in October.
I think it's much more probable that Gandalf did not go back to Rivendell, but instead met with the White Council in Lothlorien, which was much closer to Dol Guldur. Additionally, it should be taken into account that Dol Guldur is at the very south end of Mirkwood, which is a very large forest. According to the map in my copy of the Atlas of Middle-Earth, the distance from Dol Guldur to the Lonely Mountain is about the same distance as it is from Beorn's House to the Lonely Mountain!
Eagles, man.
Unless he was able to whistle for an eagle to get him there faster, perhaps? It would make sense that he would have then had to make his own way from Lothlorien to Erebor after the battle. I do think that he probably spent a good amount of time with the White Council in Lothlorien after the battle as well, mopping up Dol Guldur and recuperating.
Oh shit, battle of five armies!
The most I can see is Gandalf learning about Bolg's attack, but then Beorn pretty much tells him anyways so it's just leaving it up to loads of travel time to make up time to the battle.
Probably, especially since he was already excited about creating bridging stuff. Maybe centered around the Necromancer?
Exactly. He had a platoon of elves show up at Helm's Deep to build a bit of hope. And it worked.
Indeed.
The more I think about it, as long as PJ doesn't go for broke with the running times of the these films (keeping them in the 2/2.5-hour ballpark), there's plenty to pad out The Hobbit story with. The Battles of Five Armies and Dol Guldur could easily fill 30-45 minutes each and become the centerpieces of their respective films.
In addition, while I'm definitely curious about Jackson's films, I liked The Return of the King least, and that film felt like Jackson had no one who'd keep his fan over-enthusiasm in check by saying, "Yeah, but wouldn't less be more in this case?" Jackson's shown both the strength and the weakness of his generous at best, self-indulgent at worst approach with LotR and King Kong, and at this stage I'm not sure how much I trust him not to be self-indulgent.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Jackson has shown how to be incredibly successful and terribly unsuccessful within a very short span of films. I remain optimistic, but mostly because I want to be optimistic. Time, of course, will tell.
For my money, however, Helm's Deep was the best battle in the trilogy, and it was so because of the strong emotional payoffs woven throughout the battle. It was where Aragorn first shows his strength as a leader of men, where Aragorn and Theoden rally their people in the face of certain death, Haldir's sacrifice of immortality for the lives of Men, and the start of the really great rapport between Legolas and Gimli.
The Battle of Pellinor Fields lacks impact for several reasons; we know it's not the final battle of the film, the people of Gondor are kind of weak-willed bastards, Denethor is an asshole, and Faromir is a ponce.
I just hope that Jackson doesn't end up with too much of a George Lucas entourage, where no one tells him when he's speaking out of his ass. Jackson's got much more talent, but he needs someone or something to reign in his fanboy-meets-five year old child enthusiasm at times.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
We never get any scenes with Gondorians except as faceless cowardly mooks.
If you check out the appendix for the Return of the King there's some cool stuff in that time. Aragorn is growing up (he's like 10 or something at the time of the hobbit IIRC). He spends time in Rohan under another name kicking ass and taking names. Then again in Gondor where he is a rival of Denethor and leads a huge raid against the corsairs of Umbar.
This is true. Also, what little we know of Gondorians isn't good.
- Boromir: A good guy, but nearly a murdering jackass, and jealous of Aragorn
- Faromir: A jello-legged ponce who won't stand up to his dipshit of a dad
- Denethor: Dipshit of a dad. And a petty, incompetent tyrant. Also, completely crazy.
- Isildur: Just fucking ruined everything for everyone.
- The Gondorian Calvary: Pathetically stupid military force that will ride pointlessly into certain doom
That and their city/kingdom is in decline.
You forgot to mention the man's atrocious table manners
In fairness to Gondor they do live, like, two houses down from Mordor
It's no surprise the Cavalry so somberly accepted a suicide charge. Minas Tirith is one dour place to live.
Well, it's in a bad neighborhood.
They're a stone's throw from Mordor. There's probably fifteen pawn shops and check cashing stores on the lower level of the White City alone.
And we all saw what a resounding success the gentrification of Osgiliath was.
book faramir was a friggen hero who was not even tempted by the one ring.
Movie Fararmir is the best change in the trilogy, with the movies making him actually a character.
Ok, second best after excising Bombadil.
Nah, book Faramir was an even bigger ponce than movie Faramir.
In the books he was completely one-dimensional and was more chivalrous than Galahad, and basically had me wishing I could stick my fist into the book and punch his pure and gallant face.
Movie Faramir is a bit of a spineless pussy when it comes to facing Denethor, but he at least had some depth.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
It wasnt that he was a perfect white knight. It was the fact he gave you HOPE for Gondor, that it wasnt just A tower full
Of loonies and backstabbers.
Movie Faramir shot that hope in
the face.
Lies and slander.
Faramir stands up to his father better than Boromir did.
They both desired to "save Gondor", and considered the ring as a means to do so. Boromir, fueled by a desire to (continue to) please his father, made a grab for it.
Faramir, never the favorite, still had the strength to be his own man and not a pawn of his father's, when tempted by the Ring.