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Console vs PC Classic Throwdown: Go!
crash5s
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apotheos wrote:Fencingsax wrote:apotheos wrote:Oh just buy some consoles and a MacBook. PC gaming has been in decline for years and years and years and I just couldn't take Windows any longer.
Not to mention I can still run it if I absolutely need to.
Sorry, but Bioshock looks too awesome.
Dear sir, meet Xbox 360. Xbox 360, meet dear sir.
But console ports of PC FPS/RTS are always inferior.
PC gaming might be in decline, but there are still some great games.
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I'll pick up a 360/Wii of my own and will probably be 100% happy until HL2:ep2&3 and HL3 come out.
You forgot the part where you are wrong.
Now whine some about never learning to play a FPS with a gamepad to complete the circle of bullshit so we can move on.
(ok ok you have a point about RTS, but since Blizzard makes Mac versions my advice stands)
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Huh?
Microsoft is forcing everyone to get Vista if they want DX10. It's supposed to never be available for XP users.
I KISS YOU!
Uhm, what FPS ported to a console turned out to be better? The only one that vaguely fits is probably Far-Cry instincts, and even then that wasn't a port. I'll grant you that FPS designed for consoles and then ported to PCs always feel hideously clunky.
Edit: Oops, Apotheos already planned for that comment, except that it isn't bullshit.
I never said it made it better. Point me to one that is worse specifically because of the game pad and not because some asshole developer didn't cock up the port.
I'm actually having a hard time coming up with a list of PC->Console FPS migrations which says a whole lot about the situation to me.
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This is my thinking too, except I'm going Linux + consoles. I've still got an XP partition hanging around, but I'm seriously considering just making a clean break of it, at least partly because I can't afford a new gaming rig. It's also rapidly becoming apparent that if I could afford a new gaming rig, I'd probably be better off putting the money into a new monitor and that MythTV box I've been planning to build for about a year.
At this point, I think the only things holding me back are Spore and Bioshock(I know I could play it on 360, but I loathe dual-analogue FPS controls).
*Sigh* It's probably time to give up on Windows totally. Especially since Vista looks to be even more bullshit-ridden than XP.
It may be puishment, but Vista is going to be a through-the-pants ass raping.
I know which one I'll choose.
You know, you don't have to upgrade.
As for the HD content, this isn't Microsoft's choice. Bitch about the Hollywood studios. It was either what we are getting now, or fucking nothing.
To be fair, it's not really Microsoft that's doing that. It's their fault in the sense that they just bent over for the studios instead of fighting for their customers.
I suppose I should have stated that I feel most of this article is over-sensationalized crap. As someone else noted, a bunch of this stuff most likely already exists within the XP fine print. Then theres some guestimating on what Windows Defender protects you against, stuff we already knew about HD content playback, and revisting the windows activation scheme all over again.
In other words, let me go grab my tinfoil hat.
And, nothing will ever be worth losing KBM for an FPS game, nothing. Well, I assume if it got really bad, I could mount an Xbox 360 on my desk, run it to my LCD and run keyboard and mouse to that? Not really sure, but I hardly think we are there yet.
There are two groups of people here.
Those that actually tried and quickly learned that yes Virginia, you can control an aiming reticle with a joystick. Indeed, due to dual analog inputs, gamepads actually offer a lot to the game design.
And then there are the whining sycophants who bitch and bitch and bitch because they don't want to try something different.
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This mixed with the Zune-paying-Universal issue should illustrate that they aren't bending over, they are getting into bed willingly.
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Microsoft is big enough that they could have fought harder. Hell HD-DVD's success is practically resting entirely on microsoft's shoulders already.
It is an input device. Not a religion. You sound like a old man wearing suspenders and bitching about kids on his lawn.
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I personally hate dual-analogue controls. But even I have to admit that allowing your preferred control scheme for one game to dictate your choice of OS is going a bit far. Meh. Time to get some console FPS practice in before I get a 360 and Bioshock.
I'm sorry, but I've never seena better input source for FPS than KBM. (We'll see how the Wii does a properly done FPS)
I really think that once you open yourself up to alternatives you'll find with acclimation its not bad at all. The games are designed to take it into account.
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I realise that, I'm not trying to absolve them. My personal theory is that they're encouraging the rapid mass adoption of DRMed media in an effort to make Windows the only viable multimedia OS, on the assumption that Apple doesn't have the clout to dictate formats, and the Free software zealots will never allow DRM near Linux. It's intriguing to note, though, that Torvalds has gone on record as saying he doesn't believe there's any fundamental conflict between GPL v2.0 and DRM.
You can'tdeny Pc gaming has been dying off for years now. At this point its 90% casual games and MMORPGs supporting the PC market. There's very little in the way of strat games, FPS, RTS, or RPGs coming out on the PC anymore. A few years ago there's were damn near zero FPS on the consoles. Now its almsot exclusively a console genre.
It's not a preferred control scheme for one game. It's one for an entire genre. From Wolfenstein 3D to Bioshock. I wouldn't have enjoyed Quake1 nearly as much with a gamepad, how the fuck would I rocket jump around the map while shafting a dude in mid air on a gamepad?
I realize you casual FPS gamers take certain liberties, you like playing on couches, you don't mind having auto-lock or auto aim mechanisms in your FPS games, you don't mind if the skill difficulty is amped down. Yea well count me out.
I played Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes on a gamepad, and I did it because I fucking loved the game, but not because I loved the control, a million times I kept thinking how retarded lock on was and how overly difficult looking around the environment is.
So yea, I really think choosing my OS based on my preferred control scheme is rather logical, all things considered.
"DOOMED"? no. on the decline? yes, and you can't deny that. unless something comes along to kickstart PC gaming again, things are going to continue to look fairly bleak.
the DRM stuff and the provisions that MS can "uninstall" any software it deems unsavory off your system worry me the most. MS is a software juggernaut that should have been able to at least tone down some of the "content protection" demands of the idiots at the RIAA, MPAA, et al. instead they went along with it like whimpering puppies. i like fancy HiDef, too, but no way in hell am i giving up control of things that i own to some third party or over the internet.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
People are bitching because Microsoft kept the same EULA for Vista that they had for XP.
Also, Hollywood is being bitches about HD.
All your PC are belong to Microsoft.
Have you tried FPs controls on a Wii? It's probably going to be my FPS machine of choice.
I see how you've marginalized me into a subsegment you can then conveniently dismiss. Nice.
...
The Metroid Prime games are not FPS games. They just borrow liberally from them.
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Man, what the crap is wrong with lock on?
Nothing, in a first person adventure game.
It kind of takes the fun out of a first person shooter.
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RTS: The limitations are obvious.
MMO: Same as above.
RPGs, while doable on a console, can have a difficult time with more complex ones. For example, see NWN2. KotOR managed it, by being not nearly as complex as a D&D game.
FPS: While (obviously) also doable, they often are either simplified or slowed down to account for the console controller. For example, UT2k4 - you cannot, on a console, do anything with the speed required in a computer game of UT2k4. You have to scroll through weapons instead of selecting one right off the bat, and your turn speed is limited and not under nearly as fine a control.
Furthermore: Console gaming does not allow for user-developed content. See: every Oblivion mod, every NWN module, and even tinkering around in the files yourself, for any game.
He's trying to say that KBM feels better for FPS than gamepads. He's just using terrible examples.
The keyboard and mouse are easily the most intuitive electronic devices ever created (the mouse, at least), but I don't think it translates as well to games. However, I don't play a lot of PC games. I'm not used to the controls. On the other hand, I'm extremely comfortable playing a console shooter using a gamepad.
Bottom line: neither is superior, it's what your used to.
It is about preference. Sax knows what he's talking about.
But really this thread is about Vista. The console, and related control scheme debate, is a spin-off of the simple truth that Windows is not required to do an awful lot of gaming. But it will be required for anything DX10 only.
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Yes, well I've played some of both (admittedly, more PC shooters, but I've played my share of HALO). And I can say that aiming with a mouse feels so much better, simply because it's more intuitive.
Which is why the Wii will dominate if an FPS can get its act together.
Was I wrong? Are you saying you could compete against me in Quake 1 on a gamepad? On a game that doesn't rely on hide and cover retarded gameplay mechanics to replace actual movement and skill? Quake 3? Painkiller? If not then why are you comparing me to an old man who won't advance to a better solution when the one you provide is clearly not better?
How about the fact that they are handicapping computer FPS gamers in the upcoming Shadowrun game? That doesn't strike home at all? What about console gamers who are worried about Halo 2 on PC because of unrestricted KBM gameplay? (Despite the fact that PC gamers probably won't touch the fucking thing).
And then you realize why I managed to stomach it.