One argument I've seen presented is basically this:
would you be comfortable with having your 5 year old daughter put through that scanner? The images are pretty revealing you can't deny, although I guess you could argue on just how revealing they are.
If not, would you be comfortable with them being "patted down" by a TSA officer?
Oh yeah, I forgot every single person in the world besides me is a pedophile. Scary shit.
So... what, you're saying I'm presenting a ridiculous argument or you're making a joke or both?
Internet and/or being me makes it hard to tell.
I'm saying that the scan isn't inherently more wrong when being discussed in regards to children when the image is being used in a purely non-sexual context. The argument is just trying to take advantage of peoples' "hide the children they will be molested" instinct.
Oh I agree. I presented that argument as more of a counter-point to people like Druhim who say "suck it up, big deal who cares if someone sees you naked". I get that point. Most of the time I would support that kind of view.
My position is: its just as wrong with children as it is with regular, adult citizens. I used the example of children to present a case where no, it should not be alright to just suck it up and make them do it. If that makes sense.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I know there was some big, indignant blog post about this a week or two ago that kicked up some stuff that I thought was dumb
i don't really like the new procedures, but i just honestly don't see why it's deserving of like national indignation compared to shit that actually matters
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
Next time I fly, I'm going to attach inert material pieces to my chest that spell out "fuck you" for the scanner guys to see. I hope they have a sense of humor when they're shoving the metal detector up my ass during my intensified pat down.
Oh I agree. I presented that argument as more of a counter-point to people like Druhim who say "suck it up, big deal who cares if someone sees you naked". I get that point. Most of the time I would support that kind of view.
My position is: its just as wrong with children as it is with regular, adult citizens. I used the example of children to present a case where no, it should not be alright to just suck it up and make them do it. If that makes sense.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So a guy I work with went on a trip with his daughter and they had to go through the full body scanners. Apparently he overheard the 20 something guys running the scanner making comments about his daughter being hot, her ass, and things they would do to it.
I wouldn't be shocked if this doesn't get into the news, since he flipped the fuck out, chewed out the TSA agents, their manager, the head of security at the airport, and an airline rep who accidentally got in the line of fire. In his own words he was shocked they didn't try to get him arrested for the language he sent in their direction.
Also, his daughter is smoking hot.
eek.
So were they commenting on her ass pre-scan? Or were the comments directed at the image created by the scan?
Basically, is this something that would have happened without the scan (think construction dudes) or did the scan give the guys a clear sneak peek and then the comments started?
Oh I agree. I presented that argument as more of a counter-point to people like Druhim who say "suck it up, big deal who cares if someone sees you naked". I get that point. Most of the time I would support that kind of view.
My position is: its just as wrong with children as it is with regular, adult citizens. I used the example of children to present a case where no, it should not be alright to just suck it up and make them do it. If that makes sense.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Next time I fly, I'm going to attach inert material pieces to my chest that spell out "fuck you" for the scanner guys to see. I hope they have a sense of humor when they're shoving the metal detector up my ass during my intensified pat down.
i feel like there was probably a cheaper more effective option for making planes more secure than massive amounts of poorly trained security and repurposed medical technology
Such as?
asking politely if they have weapons on them, like we did before 9/11.
I'm sure most of us have read some version of this but here it is for reference yet again.
Yes, because you can slap any solution that works in a different culture and expect it to work just as well in your culture because these are very simple problems we're talking about that have no nuance and are exactly the same in both countries.
hint: that's sarcasm on my part
Also, the first step in their plan is profiling.
I also like how he pretends it's strictly behavioral profiling, not racial at all.
Next time I fly, I'm going to attach inert material pieces to my chest that spell out "fuck you" for the scanner guys to see. I hope they have a sense of humor when they're shoving the metal detector up my ass during my intensified pat down.
it is kind of stunning to me how much people care about this, compared with how little people have cared about incursions on privacy in pretty much every other aspect of life
the two most essential parts of our national character - prudishness and paranoia
finally come into conflict
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
i don't really like the new procedures, but i just honestly don't see why it's deserving of like national indignation compared to shit that actually matters
I think the issue is:
A) The new scanners are not tested well enough to say that they won't cancerfy your brain.
Stuff is still getting by
C) If someone seriously wanted to blow shit up, they could put C4 in their ass and do it, so what's next...cavity searches
D) The pat downs are a bit to aggressive for say a young kid or a 90 year old grandma. Also, they do totally feel up your balls. I can swear to that, but I liked it.
E) Michael Chertoff, the former head of homeland security, just happens to have direct economic ties to one of the major companies that sell these thing that are now mandatory.
I was just told by one such person that I clearly am misinterpreting the Constitution when I point out that:
1. The Constitution gives us the right to travel freely within the United States.
2. The Constitution protects us from unreasonable searches.
3. The court would have to use the strict scrutiny test to evaluate the state's compelling interest in these laws.
I will point out that this person has:
1. No legal training; and
2. Has done no legal research on the issues.
Whereas I am in law school and have spent 5 months of my life studying the Constitution.
But clearly I'm wrong because these policies make him feel safe.
I quote this because I am not versed enough in the Constitution to say where our rights are outlined in the Constitution, but this dude sounds like he does.
Oh I agree. I presented that argument as more of a counter-point to people like Druhim who say "suck it up, big deal who cares if someone sees you naked". I get that point. Most of the time I would support that kind of view.
My position is: its just as wrong with children as it is with regular, adult citizens. I used the example of children to present a case where no, it should not be alright to just suck it up and make them do it. If that makes sense.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
you have to define "unreasonable"
making sure people don't blow up planes sounds decently reasonable
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
So a guy I work with went on a trip with his daughter and they had to go through the full body scanners. Apparently he overheard the 20 something guys running the scanner making comments about his daughter being hot, her ass, and things they would do to it.
I wouldn't be shocked if this doesn't get into the news, since he flipped the fuck out, chewed out the TSA agents, their manager, the head of security at the airport, and an airline rep who accidentally got in the line of fire. In his own words he was shocked they didn't try to get him arrested for the language he sent in their direction.
Also, his daughter is smoking hot.
eek.
So were they commenting on her ass pre-scan? Or were the comments directed at the image created by the scan?
Basically, is this something that would have happened without the scan (think construction dudes) or did the scan give the guys a sneak peek and then the comments started?
They were looking at the full body scanner image and talking about 'dat ass'.
What is an 'unreasonable search'? Isn't it reasonable to make sure nobody gets on an airplane with a crotchful of explosive powder?
so, to extend what you are saying to it's logical conclusion:
Why stop with getting on an airplane? What about an airplane makes the danger to people worse in the context of detonating a bomb, than being in any other crowded place?
You're cool with having your cock searched to go into the mall then, in case you have explosive powder?
Oh I agree. I presented that argument as more of a counter-point to people like Druhim who say "suck it up, big deal who cares if someone sees you naked". I get that point. Most of the time I would support that kind of view.
My position is: its just as wrong with children as it is with regular, adult citizens. I used the example of children to present a case where no, it should not be alright to just suck it up and make them do it. If that makes sense.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
but what constitutes unreasonable? it would probably violate that if they did it to everyone, i think, but random searches/scans plus people who set off the metal detector or are suspicious doesn't seem much different in the abstract from random drug testing, which is constitutional.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
why is it unreasonable?
she's checking with the edge of her palm, she's not copping a feel
or are you assuming old white people can't want to blow things up
What is an 'unreasonable search'? Isn't it reasonable to make sure nobody gets on an airplane with a crotchful of explosive powder?
so, to extend what you are saying to it's logical conclusion:
Why stop with getting on an airplane? What about an airplane makes the danger to people worse in the context of detonating a bomb, than being in any other crowded place?
You're cool with having your cock searched to go into the mall then, in case you have explosive powder?
The secretary has defended the new screening methods, which include advanced imaging systems and pat-downs, as necessary to stopping terrorists. During the interview with Rose, Napolitano said her agency is now looking into ways to make other popular means of travel safer for passengers and commuters.
I wouldn't say I'm against these changes, but knowing the type of mouthbreathers they hire to be TSA agents I don't think it's completely unrealistic to think that they're going to pull some idiotic stunts.
Hopefully they come out with body scanners that show exactly what you look like naked. It'll be a great conversation starter. "So, you like what you see?" :winky:
it definitely violates our conception of privacy, but i sincerely doubt it's unconstitutional
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
The very nice fellow that patted me down still hasn't called yet.
It might be because I told him that it was OK he was cupping my balls for freedom. The guy next to him laughed and so did the female TSA agent. My guy had no sense of humor.
Nobody is forcing you to take part of the private airline induGGGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHmy fucking brain just melted.
But the TSA are governmental agencies and there are legal penalties for not complying with these regulations and the FAA is a federal agencies that controls airspace so....
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Muse Among MenSuburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
I imagine most TSA don't particularly like it either. Just so stupid. Hide things up your butt is all.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So a guy I work with went on a trip with his daughter and they had to go through the full body scanners. Apparently he overheard the 20 something guys running the scanner making comments about his daughter being hot, her ass, and things they would do to it.
I wouldn't be shocked if this doesn't get into the news, since he flipped the fuck out, chewed out the TSA agents, their manager, the head of security at the airport, and an airline rep who accidentally got in the line of fire. In his own words he was shocked they didn't try to get him arrested for the language he sent in their direction.
Also, his daughter is smoking hot.
eek.
So were they commenting on her ass pre-scan? Or were the comments directed at the image created by the scan?
Basically, is this something that would have happened without the scan (think construction dudes) or did the scan give the guys a sneak peek and then the comments started?
They were looking at the full body scanner image and talking about 'dat ass'.
Great. So the full body scanner images aren't as blurry as some people want us to believe. This shows that it is at least clear enough to provoke sexual comments.
I wish someone would show exactly how clear these images are. I keep hearing they are just amorphous blobs, barely considered a shadow from some people, while other say it is clear enough to determine if a dude is circumcised or not.
So a guy I work with went on a trip with his daughter and they had to go through the full body scanners. Apparently he overheard the 20 something guys running the scanner making comments about his daughter being hot, her ass, and things they would do to it.
I wouldn't be shocked if this doesn't get into the news, since he flipped the fuck out, chewed out the TSA agents, their manager, the head of security at the airport, and an airline rep who accidentally got in the line of fire. In his own words he was shocked they didn't try to get him arrested for the language he sent in their direction.
Also, his daughter is smoking hot.
eek.
So were they commenting on her ass pre-scan? Or were the comments directed at the image created by the scan?
Basically, is this something that would have happened without the scan (think construction dudes) or did the scan give the guys a sneak peek and then the comments started?
They were looking at the full body scanner image and talking about 'dat ass'.
Seriously?? Hope something comes of the dad flipping out. Let us know what happens!
Muse Among MenSuburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
TSA Rapiscan images have already been leaked. You can GIS them. I think their fidelity can range at time actually. Sometimes they don't look so bad, sometimes I just feel bad for looking.
I, personally, would not give a shit about being patted down.
But if someone said they didn't like it, I would not think they are crazy. Also some Security Guards (not all, but some) can get hyped up on their own power, and that pisses me the fuck off.
On the other hand, I'd suffer discomfort for a few seconds if doing it reduced the chances of some people getting blown up.
But I live in the UK so it's not really relevant.
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Baroque And RollEvery spark of friendship and loveWill die without a homeRegistered Userregular
So a guy I work with went on a trip with his daughter and they had to go through the full body scanners. Apparently he overheard the 20 something guys running the scanner making comments about his daughter being hot, her ass, and things they would do to it.
I wouldn't be shocked if this doesn't get into the news, since he flipped the fuck out, chewed out the TSA agents, their manager, the head of security at the airport, and an airline rep who accidentally got in the line of fire. In his own words he was shocked they didn't try to get him arrested for the language he sent in their direction.
Also, his daughter is smoking hot.
eek.
So were they commenting on her ass pre-scan? Or were the comments directed at the image created by the scan?
Basically, is this something that would have happened without the scan (think construction dudes) or did the scan give the guys a sneak peek and then the comments started?
They were looking at the full body scanner image and talking about 'dat ass'.
Great. So the full body scanner images aren't as blurry as some people want us to believe. This shows that it is at least clear enough to provoke sexual comments.
I wish someone would show exactly how clear these images are. I keep hearing they are just amorphous blobs, barely considered a shadow from some people, while other say it is clear enough to determine if a dude is circumcised or not.
Posts
Oh I agree. I presented that argument as more of a counter-point to people like Druhim who say "suck it up, big deal who cares if someone sees you naked". I get that point. Most of the time I would support that kind of view.
My position is: its just as wrong with children as it is with regular, adult citizens. I used the example of children to present a case where no, it should not be alright to just suck it up and make them do it. If that makes sense.
The funny thing is, you don't have to click the View Post link.
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eek.
So were they commenting on her ass pre-scan? Or were the comments directed at the image created by the scan?
Basically, is this something that would have happened without the scan (think construction dudes) or did the scan give the guys a clear sneak peek and then the comments started?
Which article of the Constitution deals with airport security or are you using 'the constitution' in the generalized tea-party sense.
also this
nono, do the superman logo.
I also like how he pretends it's strictly behavioral profiling, not racial at all.
Bat-symbol
who wants to fuck with batman, not me
but really, when was the last time dru flew?
the two most essential parts of our national character - prudishness and paranoia
finally come into conflict
I think the issue is:
A) The new scanners are not tested well enough to say that they won't cancerfy your brain.
C) If someone seriously wanted to blow shit up, they could put C4 in their ass and do it, so what's next...cavity searches
D) The pat downs are a bit to aggressive for say a young kid or a 90 year old grandma. Also, they do totally feel up your balls. I can swear to that, but I liked it.
E) Michael Chertoff, the former head of homeland security, just happens to have direct economic ties to one of the major companies that sell these thing that are now mandatory.
http://www.allgov.com/Where_is_the_Money_Going/ViewNews/Body_Scanners_Create_Profits_for_Chertoff_and_Others_101123
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Quoting from another thread:
I quote this because I am not versed enough in the Constitution to say where our rights are outlined in the Constitution, but this dude sounds like he does.
you have to define "unreasonable"
making sure people don't blow up planes sounds decently reasonable
They were looking at the full body scanner image and talking about 'dat ass'.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
so, to extend what you are saying to it's logical conclusion:
Why stop with getting on an airplane? What about an airplane makes the danger to people worse in the context of detonating a bomb, than being in any other crowded place?
You're cool with having your cock searched to go into the mall then, in case you have explosive powder?
but what constitutes unreasonable? it would probably violate that if they did it to everyone, i think, but random searches/scans plus people who set off the metal detector or are suspicious doesn't seem much different in the abstract from random drug testing, which is constitutional.
she's checking with the edge of her palm, she's not copping a feel
or are you assuming old white people can't want to blow things up
Next step for body scanners could be trains, boats, metro
Except this does not do that at all.
Hopefully they come out with body scanners that show exactly what you look like naked. It'll be a great conversation starter. "So, you like what you see?" :winky:
It might be because I told him that it was OK he was cupping my balls for freedom. The guy next to him laughed and so did the female TSA agent. My guy had no sense of humor.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Great. So the full body scanner images aren't as blurry as some people want us to believe. This shows that it is at least clear enough to provoke sexual comments.
I wish someone would show exactly how clear these images are. I keep hearing they are just amorphous blobs, barely considered a shadow from some people, while other say it is clear enough to determine if a dude is circumcised or not.
Which is it people?!?!?
Seriously?? Hope something comes of the dad flipping out. Let us know what happens!
our constitution does greatly limit the powers of Ghana, yes
But if someone said they didn't like it, I would not think they are crazy. Also some Security Guards (not all, but some) can get hyped up on their own power, and that pisses me the fuck off.
On the other hand, I'd suffer discomfort for a few seconds if doing it reduced the chances of some people getting blown up.
But I live in the UK so it's not really relevant.
http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans
Watch the video.
It was in the OP, bro.
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