Hate: How hard the new heroics are. They are basically unpuggable. Any random pug is lucky to get even 1 boss down, let alone finish the fucking thing. Difficult heroics have effectively ruined my favorite feature ever for 2 (one if i'm lucky) content patches. By extension, any interest to log in has been murdered.
"So play with your guild!" you might say. Well...
Hate 2: My guild officially has a, "that guy." He's always been that guy, but in the past he's had the excellent timing of being that fucking guy when we were at a point in the content where we could say, "your gear sucks, sorry!" and it wouldn't be a thing. Now he is that fucking guy at ground zero. One of the first to 85 and he wedged himself in with the other first to 85 dudes in my guild, one of whom I generally like but he never shuts the fuck up on vent and it is tedious. Also, the both of them are using random gear to break into heroics instead of class/spec appropriate gear.
So, if I say into guild chat who wants to do dungeons? I'll get dragged in with them. Can't just send tells to the guys I want to dungeon with because 1 or 2 of them has usually been sucked in with those chucklefucks and I can't fill a group out. Can't fill a group out, can't do heroics. Plus, I am one of 2 tanks currently in the guild, so if I log on, odds are I'll immediately get jumped by them anyway. It's a small guild, comprised almost entirely of people who know each other in real life (which sadly, that fucking guy is, though he's cool enough in real life) and random dudes who have stuck with us since vanilla. Big enough for 10 mans, not big enough for there to be more than 1 heroic group worth of people around at any given time. Basically I'd rather not play than leave it, so I'm not playing.
Happy: Vindictus is a fun game. And once Christmas rolls around I'll have a good 5 new console games to play, and since that damn guy is flakey as shit, odds are good he will be gone by the time I feel like caring about WoW again.
Hate: How hard the new heroics are. They are basically unpuggable. Any random pug is lucky to get even 1 boss down, let alone finish the fucking thing. Difficult heroics have effectively ruined my favorite feature ever for 2 (one if i'm lucky) content patches. By extension, any interest to log in has been murdered.
I can comprehend where you are coming from because you are catagorized under a "group" of people, which are known as a certain "type."
Pugs will get better when the vast majority of players grow into the new content. Granted, it's not going to be a blind tank and spank as it was piror (as it should not be), however they really are not THAT hard. It just takes some patience and understanding your character and the pulls.
Give it time.
Remember, video games are meant to be a challenge, otherwise there is no fun.
After fights, I'm just glad we didn't wipe and we'd have to do them again.
And yeah, I got a few people who were always less than stellar in this game, but were fun otherwise, but the way things are, and how "tight" things are, having them in a heroic just isn't an option, because it's just making me "resent" them for mistakes. It's turning me into a cock.
It's also ultimately going to lead to cliques in the guild forming.
And I'm just spamming some incredibly shitty 10k heal on a 130k tank most of the time; it's not satisfying at all. It's just boring.
I'd argue that I'm using less spells than I did in WotLK, because if I use any of those "expensive" heals I'm oom soon enough.
You know what I did in WotLK? I'd log on, form a group pretty quickly, hit an instance, and it would be done in 20-30 mins. I'd then do some dailies, do a bit of pvp, maybe work on a profession.
Now? Log on, spend time hanging around for "the right people" to come online, spend 90 minutes or so in a heroic, and then just log off just so I can recover or cool down.
Hate 2: My guild officially has a, "that guy." He's always been that guy, but in the past he's had the excellent timing of being that fucking guy when we were at a point in the content where we could say, "your gear sucks, sorry!" and it wouldn't be a thing. Now he is that fucking guy at ground zero. One of the first to 85 and he wedged himself in with the other first to 85 dudes in my guild, one of whom I generally like but he never shuts the fuck up on vent and it is tedious. Also, the both of them are using random gear to break into heroics instead of class/spec appropriate gear.
I have solved the problem of having to work with my guilds 'That Guy' by making my opinion of him perfectly clear. I get asked to group with him, I say no. I get asked why, I say because he's a drooling idiot that makes me want to put sharp objects through my monitor. And because he is 'That Guy' and the whole guild knows it, my opinion is considered both valid and amusing, and I don't ever have to deal with him.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
I am still of the opinion that the heroic content is a tad too hard. It puts a lot of stress on the healers and tanks. Sure the dps have to CC but if your tank or healer isn't in 333+ gear in every slot it's a fucking nightmare.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
You know what I did in WotLK? I'd log on, form a group pretty quickly, hit an instance, and it would be done in 20-30 mins. I'd then do some dailies, do a bit of pvp, maybe work on a profession.
Things will return to this when we overgear the content, again.
I am still of the opinion that the heroic content is a tad too hard. It puts a lot of stress on the healers and tanks. Sure the dps have to CC but if your tank or healer isn't in 333+ gear in every slot it's a fucking nightmare.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
HATE: Trash DPS
At marginal gear levels it is impossible to carry bad DPS in heroics because of the aforementioned dick-to-ass scenario. You can kill maybe the first boss but any terrible PUGs will kill your group since you won't have the DPS to make it through the fights in time. In a full 333 average group of guildies that all played their classes flawlessly we made it through one heroic, every other group I've had I've had to PUG people and it's impossible to get past the first or second boss with these silly fucking geese standing in fires and doing awful deeps.
So in one sense it's awesome because they feel like raid progression challenge but in the other sense it sucks because I don't get to do as many dungeons.
I imagine my issue was the healer last night. If our healer was better we would've had no issue with the heroics with people doing 15k and the tank doing 8k. But god damn are they unforgiving unless you're healer is a fucking machine.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
You know what I did in WotLK? I'd log on, form a group pretty quickly, hit an instance, and it would be done in 20-30 mins. I'd then do some dailies, do a bit of pvp, maybe work on a profession.
Things will return to this when we overgear the content, again.
There's going to have to be some serious scaling between tiers for these heroics to be outgeared.
I honestly have to ask if the healing we have now, is going to attract any new healers to this style?
Healing in WotLK from 30% to 100% was stupid, but healing tanks for less than 10% isn't much better.
I imagine my issue was the healer last night. If our healer was better we would've had no issue with the heroics with people doing 15k and the tank doing 8k. But god damn are they unforgiving unless you're healer is a fucking machine.
Who are you grouping with where people are doing 15k and are failing on Heroics? If my DPS did 15K I wouldn't even need a healer. My DPSers are doing 5-10k, while I am doing 3-8k depending on fight. Is that average for the entire run? Or just one fight?
I'm lucky as a Tank. I only need one other person to do Heroics reliably.
And as someone mentioned he ran into a Ret Paladin without repentence. I ran into 2. TWO! Warlocks, BACK to BACK that did not have Fear Glyphed. I was so confused, what glyphs could they have in place? I couldn't look.
That's about what they were pulling on the first boss of SFK. It's the archangel form that fucks the group because the healer struggles. He can't top us off before it hits just because it's so mana intensive.
Raaah these were harder than BC heroics from my experience, trash wise, no, but boss wise, holy fuck it's like mixing ICC hard modes with BC heroics and giving everyone greens.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
That's about what they were pulling on the first boss of SFK. It's the archangel form that fucks the group because the healer struggles. He can't top us off before it hits just because it's so mana intensive.
Raaah these were harder than BC heroics from my experience, trash wise, no, but boss wise, holy fuck it's like mixing ICC hard modes with BC heroics and giving everyone greens.
The healer's doing it wrong then, that's one of the few bosses I normally end with over 50% mana. After the stun thing he just need to get everyone over 10k (other than the tank, who I let hover at like 75k) for whatever-the-instant-shadow-nuke-is-called and make sure the dispels are instant. The boss is just going to bring everyone to 1 health again, so more healing than that is totally pointless. The only time it's mana intensive is the last like 30% ish, where he should start healing everyone back up, but if he does it right he'll start that phase at like 80% mana.
(See why I don't raid lead? They were making fun of my on Halfus because I refer to abilities as "fire rape" and "circly annoying thing")
I am still of the opinion that the heroic content is a tad too hard. It puts a lot of stress on the healers and tanks. Sure the dps have to CC but if your tank or healer isn't in 333+ gear in every slot it's a fucking nightmare.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
It's pretty brutal, especially in the beginning when everyone decides to cheat the system and get around the ilevel requirement by stashing anything 333 in their bag. (I made 329 with some mail pieces and tanking trinkets, woo) I do love that it's not a faceroll anymore... But even now that we outgear (if you're in mostly heroic gear, yes you're 1/2 tier outgearing them) heroics, there's still a 90% chance that we'll wipe if anyone makes any minor mistake. I was super happy to have managed to save us yesterday when someone was knocked back into another pack in HStonecore. I guess I'm supposed to be an elitist prick hate him forever for being the worst player for making a mistake, but hey, shit happens. I just wish my 6 & 10 minute cooldowns could reliably fix those kinds of mistakes.
So far I've had to talk about every healer in guild "off the ledge" at one point or another. Pretty much all of them we're like "I can't do this" after their first 1-2 pulls into a heroic. Like, yes, yes you can, and you will, just relax. (My method of relaxing now has 3 tiers; Single malt, a lovely Australian Pinot Noir, and vodka shots) Now that we have a ton of people that know the encounters, it's like night and day. People avoid damage. They use their self healing abilities. They don't suck my mana pool dry anymore. And if those things don't happen? Have fun in PuG heroics, I'm never taking you again. I adore that EVERYONE has to step up and pull their weight, not just tanks and healers anymore.
Well, I strongly dislike the idea of not having the option to pug heroics, because it can sometimes be damn hard to find a guild group.
You have the option. The horror stories are just the bad stuff. People don't go rushing out into the world to tell the tale of the group was did OK, wiped a few times, but eventually finished. They do go raging on for a while about that rogue who didn't kick, didn't sap, and broke CC while doing 5k DPS and they realized he cheated the ilvl requirement for the queue.
So far I've had to talk about every healer in guild "off the ledge" at one point or another. Pretty much all of them we're like "I can't do this" after their first 1-2 pulls into a heroic. Like, yes, yes you can, and you will, just relax. (My method of relaxing now has 3 tiers; Single malt, a lovely Australian Pinot Noir, and vodka shots) Now that we have a ton of people that know the encounters, it's like night and day. People avoid damage. They use their self healing abilities. They don't suck my mana pool dry anymore. And if those things don't happen? Have fun in PuG heroics, I'm never taking you again. I adore that EVERYONE has to step up and pull their weight, not just tanks and healers anymore.
Yeah, this.
Also, advice for any other healer who hasn't done a heroic at 85 yet.
DON'T START WITH STONECORE. YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF.
Though happily, I got Stonecore again last night as a random and we completed it, took a while because of a pug tank, but at least there's that coming back from "omg omg what is happening everyone is deaaaad".
Well, I strongly dislike the idea of not having the option to pug heroics, because it can sometimes be damn hard to find a guild group.
You have the option. The horror stories are just the bad stuff. People don't go rushing out into the world to tell the tale of the group was did OK, wiped a few times, but eventually finished. They do go raging on for a while about that rogue who didn't kick, didn't sap, and broke CC while doing 5k DPS and they realized he cheated the ilvl requirement for the queue.
I like to groom Unicorns in my free time.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Happy: rogue tanked the last 15-20% of the Halls boss that summons adds, setesh i think because the entire rest of the group was picked off one by one by adds while the tank tried to get the boss to aggro him. Last one alive and I survived by maybe 1% health and thank god the adds despawn when he dies.
Hate: Ore market died on my server. It got completely flooded and instead of everything realizing they could still make about 300g even with the inflated availability they decide to blindly auctioneer undercut to the point where it's worth not even half that.
Happy: Stage two of mining then. Sending the ore to my rogue to level his JC.
Hmm: is 465 JC high enough to start using elementium?
Hate: Ore market died on my server. It got completely flooded and instead of everything realizing they could still make about 300g even with the inflated availability they decide to blindly auctioneer undercut to the point where it's worth not even half that.
It's funny that people keep mentioning this. I work as an analyst in an industry where, historically, people have had a hard time making consistent profits over the long term.* One of the things that is always quoted as being a problem is "pricing irrationality in the market" - e.g., everyone else is always dropping their prices to unprofitable levels to get market share, and then everyone else has to follow suit because the customers aren't willing to pay more than the discounted prices.
And yet, it's common marketing knowledge that you don't drop to unprofitable levels, for anything other than stated temporary discounts, like when you're releasing a new product, because that one competitor who has clout(like Walmart) will beat you to the ground in a price war.
I am still of the opinion that the heroic content is a tad too hard. It puts a lot of stress on the healers and tanks. Sure the dps have to CC but if your tank or healer isn't in 333+ gear in every slot it's a fucking nightmare.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
I'm not blaming you specifically, just the WoW community in general.
Nobody should even think about stepping into heroics until this is true.
We're all so used to "hit 80 and heroic NAONAONAO" that people have forgotten what gearing up means.
I'm just remembering back to Vanilla WoW when I was applying for a guild starting ZG. The GM said "sure, we'll think about it, let me look at your gear and tell you what you need to improve before we let you in."
Because I had spent about a month doing nothing but hunting down my upgrades, there was nothing. Literally NOTHING that I could get outside of raids to improve my gear.
This is where we need to be for Cata heroics.
To do any less is to do a disservice to everyone in your group.
ImthebOHGODBEES on
Do you, in fact, have any builds in this shop at all?
As somebody who's been making a ton of money off mining this expac, I've been finding the various hotfixes to increase/decrease node spawn rates interesting.
For example (not sure on all the dates):
Elementium spawn rates in Deepholm decreased
Obsidium spawn rates in Deepholm increased
Obsidium spawn rates in Hyjal decreased (the next day)
I am still of the opinion that the heroic content is a tad too hard. It puts a lot of stress on the healers and tanks. Sure the dps have to CC but if your tank or healer isn't in 333+ gear in every slot it's a fucking nightmare.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
I'm not blaming you specifically, just the WoW community in general.
Nobody should even think about stepping into heroics until this is true.
We're all so used to "hit 80 and heroic NAONAONAO" that people have forgotten what gearing up means.
I'm just remembering back to Vanilla WoW when I was applying for a guild starting ZG. The GM said "sure, we'll think about it, let me look at your gear and tell you what you need to improve before we let you in."
Because I had spent about a month doing nothing but hunting down my upgrades, there was nothing. Literally NOTHING that I could get outside of raids to improve my gear.
This is where we need to be for Cata heroics.
To do any less is to do a disservice to everyone in your group.
There's also a reason vanilla wow was terrible.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Hate: How hard the new heroics are. They are basically unpuggable. Any random pug is lucky to get even 1 boss down, let alone finish the fucking thing. Difficult heroics have effectively ruined my favorite feature ever for 2 (one if i'm lucky) content patches. By extension, any interest to log in has been murdered.
I keep pugging heroics when bored and guildies aren't around. It is pretty slow, but calling it impossible is hardly true. Being the tank, you are the one that makes or breaks a group. Just use a firm hand and tell people exactly what to do, use marks extensively and most of them are very much doable.
Deadmines and SFK are the exceptions, mostly because of the first 2 bosses in SFK in that case though. New heroics are just amazing though. Perfectly doable in greens/blues, barely meeting the 329 requirement. Or just halfway challenging if you build up some gear first. Of course you still need CC and interuppts, but every pug for me so far have understood that the 8-10th time I tell them.
Happy: leveling my priest, racechanged to a gnome. It's really nice seeing all the leveling stuff properly now and exploring a bit instead of just rushing to 85.
Frozenzen on
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I am still of the opinion that the heroic content is a tad too hard. It puts a lot of stress on the healers and tanks. Sure the dps have to CC but if your tank or healer isn't in 333+ gear in every slot it's a fucking nightmare.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
I'm not blaming you specifically, just the WoW community in general.
Nobody should even think about stepping into heroics until this is true.
We're all so used to "hit 80 and heroic NAONAONAO" that people have forgotten what gearing up means.
I'm just remembering back to Vanilla WoW when I was applying for a guild starting ZG. The GM said "sure, we'll think about it, let me look at your gear and tell you what you need to improve before we let you in."
Because I had spent about a month doing nothing but hunting down my upgrades, there was nothing. Literally NOTHING that I could get outside of raids to improve my gear.
This is where we need to be for Cata heroics.
To do any less is to do a disservice to everyone in your group.
OK I think you're going a bit overboard here.
I healed my first heroic (Throne of Tides) as a fresh dinged 85. I think my ilvl was 316 and there were a lot of greens and/or poorly itemized items. It was a guild run, and everyone else was in the mid 330s. Sure it was tough, but we killed the first 2 bosses with 0 wipes. The 3rd boss was tougher because after 50% or so he starts constantly casting some targetted AoE that hits anyone in the party within his LoS and I just didn't have the mana to heal through it. Once the DPS realized that they had to make minimizing their damage taken a higher priority over dealing damage, we managed a kill (our poor rogue did about 0 DPS sub-50%). The final boss was pretty cake as well, only wiping to DPS not being able to target that octupus guy during the soft enrage.
Fast forward a couple days of running heroics and I'm in about 50% heroic blues and I get heroic halls of origination through the LFG tool. The DK tank has maybe 145k hp buffed, so I'm thinking this will be a pretty easy run. Well the rogue goes up and saps one of the mobs, then the DK runs in, drops DnD and death grips the effing sapped mob! I blew through every cooldown I had and almost my entire mana pool keeping him alive through that pull. Afterwards, I ask him to use CC...no response. The next pull, rogue saps again, DK runs in and drops DnD on the entire group including the sapped mob. I didn't have any cooldowns up, so he went down like a sack of bricks and I dropped group.
I guess my point is that sure, it's easy to just require everyone in the group to meet some minimum gear requirement and put most of the burden on the tank/healer, but in reality, having DPS who actively avoid raid damage (oh, ability X is being cast I need to move/interrupt) versus DPS who reactively avoid it (oh, void zone spawned on me, just let me finish this cast first) is an astronomical difference in your healer's mana. From my experience, it's a bigger difference than the 20-30 ilvl jump from questing gear to heroic blues.
Sir Landshark on
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Man, all the "we did it fine so it's fine" attitude is fucking annoying.
No, heroics are not fine.
They're not "perfectly doable in greens/blues, barely meeting the 329 requirement". At all.
And the tank doesn't make or break a group. I'm a good tank. I'm a well above average tank. I know the encounters going into them and I will take the time to explain not only bosses, but individual trash pulls. I rarely lose aggro and when I do it's typically not my fault. As a tank there's nothing I can do about DPS standing in shit despite being told to move, there's nothing I can do about terribad heals who can't change their mindset for cata healing and going oom 30 seconds into a fight because they're trying to top everyone off and healing terrible dps. As a tank there's nothing I can do about party members not CCing despite having things marked and instructions being given to do so. As a tank there's nothing I can do about other players gearing properly and being able to maintain reasonable dps for their class/gear/level.
So no, if a heroic fails it isn't on my shoulders. I do what I can, but I can't carry the fucking group and to have someone act like I "make or break the group" is fucking stupid. I've got plenty of cata heroics under my belt, but sadly because of both the difficulty and the general below average players you get in pugs, I only have three that I've actually finished. And two of those were guild runs. I have killed many bosses in current content being the only one alive doing the last several hundred k life on a boss on my own, healing and dpsing myself because the other players died usually due to stupid shit they were warned about well in advance.
And this is where I'm sick of shit of all the "we did it fine, so it is fine" attitude. Good for you, you're good and your guild is good, or maybe you just got lucky with the lfd roll with good players. But the fact is the majority of the playerbase in WoW isn't that great and the fact is, whether you like it or not, in order to keep those players playing the content has to be accessible to them. You can piss and moan about "oh, they're just a wrath player" all you want but fuck you. It's Blizzards fault that people got in the fast moving, aoe faceroll mindset because that's the shit that they designed. To expect pepole to come away knowing how to CC and manage threat and not be generally bad players when the game itself trained them to be otherwise, is completely unreasonable. You may think it's fine, you may think that they just need to l2p, but that is not even a remotely helpful attitude. Players are the way they are because its how they were trained to be. If Blizzard wants them to be otherwise then they're going to have to train them again. And not by shoving their face in a brick wall over and over again and saying "do it right!", but by easing them into it and producing some means of showing what the expectations are going to be. And when even in cata normals you can still faceroll aoe, that isn't happening and folks are hitting heroics hard.
And very few are actually enjoying it. Despite some of the elitist shit around here, there are very few people, at least on my two servers, who seem to actually enjoy the idiotic difficulty of some of the current heroics, compounded with doing it with pugs. And as far as that goes, the "you should be doing it with a guild" is just as stupid of an argument (that I've seen made), given that the LFD system is there for a fucking reason. The few people, in-game who have expressed actual enjoyment of the current heroics are typically the same people who are already clearing raids. Not the people who will be running heroics for a living.
Right now the importance of a good and geared healer is far far more important than any of the other classes. In fact, i may get grief for this, but tanks have had to change their game a lot less than DPS or healers, of which healers being the most obvious. They have by far the most stressfull jobs right now. If anything goes wrong, whether to stupid dps or pulling to much or too much damage, the healer has to deal with it. Tank dies, its most likely a wipe, dps dies, well it can cause a wipe as you might not have enough dps and you will run outta mana.
Tank cant do much as he is going to get squashed 95% of the time with more than 2 mobs on him right now, or if a healer wants to run out of mana every fight. In fact a tank, has to tank less mobs than he used to do but still generally do the same things he always did as most of it is CC'd. With a dps now, he has to CC, which in itself is not a big deal and usually its do it once, before a pull and that's it unless its stupid dps, and dispel things, move out of things, and still do a high amount of dps. Some can do 2 but very hard to find one that does all 3. It did not matter at all through wrath, and other than CC'ing didnt matter in BC as far as i remember.
I know i may get some tank hatred for it.. but i dont think anyone can argue that healers make or break groups now.
I know i may get some tank hatred for it.. but i dont think anyone can argue that healers make or break groups now.
No, this mostly sounds right. I haven't tanked Cata yet, but if in fact I'll mostly be tanking one or two total mobs, that should not be hard, especially since I've not been hearing complaints about difficult threat management.
All of this just brings me back to my stance that it might be better to have heroics easier, and have more hard modes. Not just heroic achievements, but actual loot generated from dealing with a boss in a particular way, or an unlockable boss. That way people can pug all of the 5 mans on two tiers, and see all of that "content"(the atmosphere etc of the interiors), and there's still one more level of difficulty that can be ratcheted up.
Clearing raids? Not so much. I absolutely LOVE the new heroics. Me and nine others from my guild hopped into one to the raids to see how we'd do and we got owned so hard, in so many different ways. Didn't down anything more than a single trash pull that we wiped on twice before we got it down. And this is my guild that never killed LK 25 on NORMAL. We're not that great. We're a casual guild of laid back peeps. And we can do the heroics. We're enjoying the heroics.
You're right, as a tank you can't make up for completely mouthbreathers in your groups. You can either help them learn to play better through calm and patient instructions, or you can kick them. Yeah, sometimes they won't listen, but you might be surprised how often they do, how often people just don't KNOW any better and are happy to improve. Hell, I had to spend ten minutes explaining to a warlock what the concepts of 'upwind' and 'downwind' even MEANT before we were able to down a boss. But after I did, the wipefest turned into the clean attempt, and we were moving towards the next trash.
It's barely a day past the first week of the expansion. People are adjusting. To just write every one off as an idiot who simply CAN'T improve is doing a disservice to both them and to yourself. They will get better, and the heroics will seem easier.
Frankly, I stopped running heroics in Wrath because it was dull as hell sleepwalking my way through mobs. No, the cata heroics are not easy, but they're not impossible. They're a challenge. And I like challenge.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
I've been having a blast in heroics, but I've been doing them almost exculsively in guild groups. They do take a long time though, I'm sure it will speed up once people are kitted out a bit.
Meh a bunch of hard mode raiders struggling not with the concept of the fights but because it's balanced too high (damage output) means you did it wrong. Fights like the first one in SFK, for instance, put out way too much damage. I get it, it's supposed to be challenge. When I first got on my bike when I was a kid, that was challenging.
Riding my bike into a wall and falling off and skinning my arms isn't challenging, it's painful and annoying.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Players are the way they are because its how they were trained to be. If Blizzard wants them to be otherwise then they're going to have to train them again. And not by shoving their face in a brick wall over and over again and saying "do it right!", but by easing them into it and producing some means of showing what the expectations are going to be. And when even in cata normals you can still faceroll aoe, that isn't happening and folks are hitting heroics hard.
I really don't get how you can say it's Blizzard's fault that the player base sucks yet claim that they won't learn and improve with the new challenge of Cata heroics. The game has been out for a week. I remember still using CC in WOTLK heroics one month into the expansion.
Sir Landshark on
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Happy: Slowly getting my DK his Merrymaker title (and Violet Proto-Drake)....got the first 6 HKs last night.
(un)Happy: DK hasn't done any Cata leveling/gearing yet, so it kinda sucks to lose the costume when an 83/84 character gets him in their sights.
Huh? : Not sure what's up with the hat, and the blue post doesn't entirely help:
Winter Veil Bosses
The denizens of the dungeons of Northrend are also getting into the holiday spirit, and some dungeon bosses even wear festive Winter Hats just like Greatfather Winter's. Defeat a Winter Veil boss, and the boss' hat is yours!
Winter Veil bosses of Northrend:
* Grand Magus Telestra (The Nexus) - Red Winter Hat
* Jedoga Shadowseeker (Ahn'Kahet: The Old Kingdom) - Red Winter Hat
* Mage-Lord Urom (The Oculus) - Green Winter Hat
Cataclysm Winter Veil bosses
* Deadmines (Heroic) - Admiral Ripsnarl
* The Stone Core (Normal + Heroic) - High Priestess Azil
* Blackrock Caverns (Normal + Heroic) - Corla, Herald of Twilight
* Shadowfang Keep (Heroic) - Lord Godfrey
* Grim Batol (Normal + Heroic) - Drahga Shadowburner
From December 25th to January 2nd only
I guess this means the hats aren't showing up until next Saturday?
And for the Northrend dungeons, are those normal? Heroic? Both?
Players are the way they are because its how they were trained to be. If Blizzard wants them to be otherwise then they're going to have to train them again. And not by shoving their face in a brick wall over and over again and saying "do it right!", but by easing them into it and producing some means of showing what the expectations are going to be. And when even in cata normals you can still faceroll aoe, that isn't happening and folks are hitting heroics hard.
I really don't get how you can say it's Blizzard's fault that the player base sucks yet claim that they won't learn and improve with the new challenge of Cata heroics. The game has been out for a week. I remember still using CC in WOTLK heroics one month into the expansion.
I haven't used CC since the nerf to dungeons and raids in BC.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Players are the way they are because its how they were trained to be. If Blizzard wants them to be otherwise then they're going to have to train them again. And not by shoving their face in a brick wall over and over again and saying "do it right!", but by easing them into it and producing some means of showing what the expectations are going to be. And when even in cata normals you can still faceroll aoe, that isn't happening and folks are hitting heroics hard.
I really don't get how you can say it's Blizzard's fault that the player base sucks yet claim that they won't learn and improve with the new challenge of Cata heroics. The game has been out for a week. I remember still using CC in WOTLK heroics one month into the expansion.
I haven't used CC since the nerf to dungeons and raids in BC.
Yea.. i dont ever remember using CC in wrath, ever, even when it first came out and we hit 80 and went to heroics. It was tough, not this tough, but manageable. Naxx being doable right out and puggable didnt help, so you pretty much squashed any heroic with naxx gear. I remember sheeping in BC, which was easy. Then i suddenly had to learn to sap with the rogue, and i dont remember but did you need to talent into it or talent into it for a bigger range or something? Improved sap or something. Now that was training. Learning to distract/sap, failing and having to deal with it with prob a wipe or at least you could overcome it somehow. Places like shattered halls with a warrior before the aoe tanking stuff came into being, now that grew hair on your balls(we didnt have a paly tank until much later into BC). I know its a week, and we will all learn more and adapt more. Just some of this stuff.. oi.
I understand the hate for Herocs, but the thing is... if you're an 80 going into it, and you're use to WOTLK, you're gonna have a learning curve. You've got all those fancy skills for a reason though.
HOWEVER - to say that Blizzard is not "training" people is bullshit because they ARE. You simply have to level a new character. All the new content involes mini-boss fights every couple of quests. Every little storyline ends with you fighting some elite mob with some form of mechanic, and the mechanic gets crazier and you get less help every time. It's a 1-80 training guide for the mechanics of the game and what to expect. It really is.
Now that doesn't mean that if you're level 80 you should have to go through leveling a character to "learn the new stuff." You learn that shit by running it, but the new breed of characters that are playing WoW for the first time, or have not done so in a long time, will be able to understand these fights. Challanges are challanges. If you're pissed because you wipe a few times, then you've got some issues to get over. Video games kill you. That is why the death penalty is NOTHING. You simply go back to your body and maybe fork out a bit of EASY AS SHIT TO MAKE Gold to repair yourself.
The new shit simply takes teams. And with the guild system in place it is clearly obvious that Blizzard would like people to focus in guilds. They want you to become a part of something to "feel" like you belong in that group. LFD is great, but you have to expect that in ANY situation in life, if you're suddenly put up with a few other strangers and asked to do something you don't know... it's gonna suck. Shit, that is what the basis of most reality T.V. shows are.
TL;DR: It's not that hard, it is a challenge, take the time to get in with a good guild/group, expect nothing and don't be frustrated over changes that will change, and change again.
Posts
Heh: Said alt dinged twice while mining so far. Only did a handful of quests in Hyjal.
Happy: 82 means Deepholm ! Hurray for even more places to mine delicious ores.
Hate: Heroic PUGs. You all know why .
Hate: My friend who got the Vortex Pinnacle drake on his first run ever. It's so purdy, i must have it.
Love: truegold transmute. They give me so much money for not doing anything. mwahaha
Hate: How hard the new heroics are. They are basically unpuggable. Any random pug is lucky to get even 1 boss down, let alone finish the fucking thing. Difficult heroics have effectively ruined my favorite feature ever for 2 (one if i'm lucky) content patches. By extension, any interest to log in has been murdered.
"So play with your guild!" you might say. Well...
Hate 2: My guild officially has a, "that guy." He's always been that guy, but in the past he's had the excellent timing of being that fucking guy when we were at a point in the content where we could say, "your gear sucks, sorry!" and it wouldn't be a thing. Now he is that fucking guy at ground zero. One of the first to 85 and he wedged himself in with the other first to 85 dudes in my guild, one of whom I generally like but he never shuts the fuck up on vent and it is tedious. Also, the both of them are using random gear to break into heroics instead of class/spec appropriate gear.
So, if I say into guild chat who wants to do dungeons? I'll get dragged in with them. Can't just send tells to the guys I want to dungeon with because 1 or 2 of them has usually been sucked in with those chucklefucks and I can't fill a group out. Can't fill a group out, can't do heroics. Plus, I am one of 2 tanks currently in the guild, so if I log on, odds are I'll immediately get jumped by them anyway. It's a small guild, comprised almost entirely of people who know each other in real life (which sadly, that fucking guy is, though he's cool enough in real life) and random dudes who have stuck with us since vanilla. Big enough for 10 mans, not big enough for there to be more than 1 heroic group worth of people around at any given time. Basically I'd rather not play than leave it, so I'm not playing.
Happy: Vindictus is a fun game. And once Christmas rolls around I'll have a good 5 new console games to play, and since that damn guy is flakey as shit, odds are good he will be gone by the time I feel like caring about WoW again.
LoL: failboattootoot
I can comprehend where you are coming from because you are catagorized under a "group" of people, which are known as a certain "type."
Pugs will get better when the vast majority of players grow into the new content. Granted, it's not going to be a blind tank and spank as it was piror (as it should not be), however they really are not THAT hard. It just takes some patience and understanding your character and the pulls.
Give it time.
Remember, video games are meant to be a challenge, otherwise there is no fun.
After fights, I'm just glad we didn't wipe and we'd have to do them again.
And yeah, I got a few people who were always less than stellar in this game, but were fun otherwise, but the way things are, and how "tight" things are, having them in a heroic just isn't an option, because it's just making me "resent" them for mistakes. It's turning me into a cock.
It's also ultimately going to lead to cliques in the guild forming.
And I'm just spamming some incredibly shitty 10k heal on a 130k tank most of the time; it's not satisfying at all. It's just boring.
I'd argue that I'm using less spells than I did in WotLK, because if I use any of those "expensive" heals I'm oom soon enough.
You know what I did in WotLK? I'd log on, form a group pretty quickly, hit an instance, and it would be done in 20-30 mins. I'd then do some dailies, do a bit of pvp, maybe work on a profession.
Now? Log on, spend time hanging around for "the right people" to come online, spend 90 minutes or so in a heroic, and then just log off just so I can recover or cool down.
It can't carry on like this.
I have solved the problem of having to work with my guilds 'That Guy' by making my opinion of him perfectly clear. I get asked to group with him, I say no. I get asked why, I say because he's a drooling idiot that makes me want to put sharp objects through my monitor. And because he is 'That Guy' and the whole guild knows it, my opinion is considered both valid and amusing, and I don't ever have to deal with him.
Harumph: Port to SW then to Darn. Tip: "K cya *drop group*"
Now I don't expect tips for every port, but come on, nothing for 2 of them? bah.
Like someone chopping off your dick and fucking you in the ass with it.
HATE: Trash DPS
At marginal gear levels it is impossible to carry bad DPS in heroics because of the aforementioned dick-to-ass scenario. You can kill maybe the first boss but any terrible PUGs will kill your group since you won't have the DPS to make it through the fights in time. In a full 333 average group of guildies that all played their classes flawlessly we made it through one heroic, every other group I've had I've had to PUG people and it's impossible to get past the first or second boss with these silly fucking geese standing in fires and doing awful deeps.
So in one sense it's awesome because they feel like raid progression challenge but in the other sense it sucks because I don't get to do as many dungeons.
There's going to have to be some serious scaling between tiers for these heroics to be outgeared.
I honestly have to ask if the healing we have now, is going to attract any new healers to this style?
Healing in WotLK from 30% to 100% was stupid, but healing tanks for less than 10% isn't much better.
Who are you grouping with where people are doing 15k and are failing on Heroics? If my DPS did 15K I wouldn't even need a healer. My DPSers are doing 5-10k, while I am doing 3-8k depending on fight. Is that average for the entire run? Or just one fight?
I'm lucky as a Tank. I only need one other person to do Heroics reliably.
And as someone mentioned he ran into a Ret Paladin without repentence. I ran into 2. TWO! Warlocks, BACK to BACK that did not have Fear Glyphed. I was so confused, what glyphs could they have in place? I couldn't look.
Raaah these were harder than BC heroics from my experience, trash wise, no, but boss wise, holy fuck it's like mixing ICC hard modes with BC heroics and giving everyone greens.
Steam
Only the strong can help the weak.
The healer's doing it wrong then, that's one of the few bosses I normally end with over 50% mana. After the stun thing he just need to get everyone over 10k (other than the tank, who I let hover at like 75k) for whatever-the-instant-shadow-nuke-is-called and make sure the dispels are instant. The boss is just going to bring everyone to 1 health again, so more healing than that is totally pointless. The only time it's mana intensive is the last like 30% ish, where he should start healing everyone back up, but if he does it right he'll start that phase at like 80% mana.
(See why I don't raid lead? They were making fun of my on Halfus because I refer to abilities as "fire rape" and "circly annoying thing")
It's pretty brutal, especially in the beginning when everyone decides to cheat the system and get around the ilevel requirement by stashing anything 333 in their bag. (I made 329 with some mail pieces and tanking trinkets, woo) I do love that it's not a faceroll anymore... But even now that we outgear (if you're in mostly heroic gear, yes you're 1/2 tier outgearing them) heroics, there's still a 90% chance that we'll wipe if anyone makes any minor mistake. I was super happy to have managed to save us yesterday when someone was knocked back into another pack in HStonecore. I guess I'm supposed to be an elitist prick hate him forever for being the worst player for making a mistake, but hey, shit happens. I just wish my 6 & 10 minute cooldowns could reliably fix those kinds of mistakes.
So far I've had to talk about every healer in guild "off the ledge" at one point or another. Pretty much all of them we're like "I can't do this" after their first 1-2 pulls into a heroic. Like, yes, yes you can, and you will, just relax. (My method of relaxing now has 3 tiers; Single malt, a lovely Australian Pinot Noir, and vodka shots) Now that we have a ton of people that know the encounters, it's like night and day. People avoid damage. They use their self healing abilities. They don't suck my mana pool dry anymore. And if those things don't happen? Have fun in PuG heroics, I'm never taking you again. I adore that EVERYONE has to step up and pull their weight, not just tanks and healers anymore.
You have the option. The horror stories are just the bad stuff. People don't go rushing out into the world to tell the tale of the group was did OK, wiped a few times, but eventually finished. They do go raging on for a while about that rogue who didn't kick, didn't sap, and broke CC while doing 5k DPS and they realized he cheated the ilvl requirement for the queue.
Yeah, this.
Also, advice for any other healer who hasn't done a heroic at 85 yet.
DON'T START WITH STONECORE. YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF.
Though happily, I got Stonecore again last night as a random and we completed it, took a while because of a pug tank, but at least there's that coming back from "omg omg what is happening everyone is deaaaad".
I like to groom Unicorns in my free time.
Hate: Ore market died on my server. It got completely flooded and instead of everything realizing they could still make about 300g even with the inflated availability they decide to blindly auctioneer undercut to the point where it's worth not even half that.
Happy: Stage two of mining then. Sending the ore to my rogue to level his JC.
Hmm: is 465 JC high enough to start using elementium?
It's funny that people keep mentioning this. I work as an analyst in an industry where, historically, people have had a hard time making consistent profits over the long term.* One of the things that is always quoted as being a problem is "pricing irrationality in the market" - e.g., everyone else is always dropping their prices to unprofitable levels to get market share, and then everyone else has to follow suit because the customers aren't willing to pay more than the discounted prices.
Seeing it show up in WoW is ... amusing.
*
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I'm not blaming you specifically, just the WoW community in general.
Nobody should even think about stepping into heroics until this is true.
We're all so used to "hit 80 and heroic NAONAONAO" that people have forgotten what gearing up means.
I'm just remembering back to Vanilla WoW when I was applying for a guild starting ZG. The GM said "sure, we'll think about it, let me look at your gear and tell you what you need to improve before we let you in."
Because I had spent about a month doing nothing but hunting down my upgrades, there was nothing. Literally NOTHING that I could get outside of raids to improve my gear.
This is where we need to be for Cata heroics.
To do any less is to do a disservice to everyone in your group.
As somebody who's been making a ton of money off mining this expac, I've been finding the various hotfixes to increase/decrease node spawn rates interesting.
For example (not sure on all the dates):
Elementium spawn rates in Deepholm decreased
Obsidium spawn rates in Deepholm increased
Obsidium spawn rates in Hyjal decreased (the next day)
etc.
There's also a reason vanilla wow was terrible.
I keep pugging heroics when bored and guildies aren't around. It is pretty slow, but calling it impossible is hardly true. Being the tank, you are the one that makes or breaks a group. Just use a firm hand and tell people exactly what to do, use marks extensively and most of them are very much doable.
Deadmines and SFK are the exceptions, mostly because of the first 2 bosses in SFK in that case though. New heroics are just amazing though. Perfectly doable in greens/blues, barely meeting the 329 requirement. Or just halfway challenging if you build up some gear first. Of course you still need CC and interuppts, but every pug for me so far have understood that the 8-10th time I tell them.
Happy: leveling my priest, racechanged to a gnome. It's really nice seeing all the leveling stuff properly now and exploring a bit instead of just rushing to 85.
OK I think you're going a bit overboard here.
I healed my first heroic (Throne of Tides) as a fresh dinged 85. I think my ilvl was 316 and there were a lot of greens and/or poorly itemized items. It was a guild run, and everyone else was in the mid 330s. Sure it was tough, but we killed the first 2 bosses with 0 wipes. The 3rd boss was tougher because after 50% or so he starts constantly casting some targetted AoE that hits anyone in the party within his LoS and I just didn't have the mana to heal through it. Once the DPS realized that they had to make minimizing their damage taken a higher priority over dealing damage, we managed a kill (our poor rogue did about 0 DPS sub-50%). The final boss was pretty cake as well, only wiping to DPS not being able to target that octupus guy during the soft enrage.
Fast forward a couple days of running heroics and I'm in about 50% heroic blues and I get heroic halls of origination through the LFG tool. The DK tank has maybe 145k hp buffed, so I'm thinking this will be a pretty easy run. Well the rogue goes up and saps one of the mobs, then the DK runs in, drops DnD and death grips the effing sapped mob! I blew through every cooldown I had and almost my entire mana pool keeping him alive through that pull. Afterwards, I ask him to use CC...no response. The next pull, rogue saps again, DK runs in and drops DnD on the entire group including the sapped mob. I didn't have any cooldowns up, so he went down like a sack of bricks and I dropped group.
I guess my point is that sure, it's easy to just require everyone in the group to meet some minimum gear requirement and put most of the burden on the tank/healer, but in reality, having DPS who actively avoid raid damage (oh, ability X is being cast I need to move/interrupt) versus DPS who reactively avoid it (oh, void zone spawned on me, just let me finish this cast first) is an astronomical difference in your healer's mana. From my experience, it's a bigger difference than the 20-30 ilvl jump from questing gear to heroic blues.
Man, all the "we did it fine so it's fine" attitude is fucking annoying.
No, heroics are not fine.
They're not "perfectly doable in greens/blues, barely meeting the 329 requirement". At all.
And the tank doesn't make or break a group. I'm a good tank. I'm a well above average tank. I know the encounters going into them and I will take the time to explain not only bosses, but individual trash pulls. I rarely lose aggro and when I do it's typically not my fault. As a tank there's nothing I can do about DPS standing in shit despite being told to move, there's nothing I can do about terribad heals who can't change their mindset for cata healing and going oom 30 seconds into a fight because they're trying to top everyone off and healing terrible dps. As a tank there's nothing I can do about party members not CCing despite having things marked and instructions being given to do so. As a tank there's nothing I can do about other players gearing properly and being able to maintain reasonable dps for their class/gear/level.
So no, if a heroic fails it isn't on my shoulders. I do what I can, but I can't carry the fucking group and to have someone act like I "make or break the group" is fucking stupid. I've got plenty of cata heroics under my belt, but sadly because of both the difficulty and the general below average players you get in pugs, I only have three that I've actually finished. And two of those were guild runs. I have killed many bosses in current content being the only one alive doing the last several hundred k life on a boss on my own, healing and dpsing myself because the other players died usually due to stupid shit they were warned about well in advance.
And this is where I'm sick of shit of all the "we did it fine, so it is fine" attitude. Good for you, you're good and your guild is good, or maybe you just got lucky with the lfd roll with good players. But the fact is the majority of the playerbase in WoW isn't that great and the fact is, whether you like it or not, in order to keep those players playing the content has to be accessible to them. You can piss and moan about "oh, they're just a wrath player" all you want but fuck you. It's Blizzards fault that people got in the fast moving, aoe faceroll mindset because that's the shit that they designed. To expect pepole to come away knowing how to CC and manage threat and not be generally bad players when the game itself trained them to be otherwise, is completely unreasonable. You may think it's fine, you may think that they just need to l2p, but that is not even a remotely helpful attitude. Players are the way they are because its how they were trained to be. If Blizzard wants them to be otherwise then they're going to have to train them again. And not by shoving their face in a brick wall over and over again and saying "do it right!", but by easing them into it and producing some means of showing what the expectations are going to be. And when even in cata normals you can still faceroll aoe, that isn't happening and folks are hitting heroics hard.
And very few are actually enjoying it. Despite some of the elitist shit around here, there are very few people, at least on my two servers, who seem to actually enjoy the idiotic difficulty of some of the current heroics, compounded with doing it with pugs. And as far as that goes, the "you should be doing it with a guild" is just as stupid of an argument (that I've seen made), given that the LFD system is there for a fucking reason. The few people, in-game who have expressed actual enjoyment of the current heroics are typically the same people who are already clearing raids. Not the people who will be running heroics for a living.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Tank cant do much as he is going to get squashed 95% of the time with more than 2 mobs on him right now, or if a healer wants to run out of mana every fight. In fact a tank, has to tank less mobs than he used to do but still generally do the same things he always did as most of it is CC'd. With a dps now, he has to CC, which in itself is not a big deal and usually its do it once, before a pull and that's it unless its stupid dps, and dispel things, move out of things, and still do a high amount of dps. Some can do 2 but very hard to find one that does all 3. It did not matter at all through wrath, and other than CC'ing didnt matter in BC as far as i remember.
I know i may get some tank hatred for it.. but i dont think anyone can argue that healers make or break groups now.
No, this mostly sounds right. I haven't tanked Cata yet, but if in fact I'll mostly be tanking one or two total mobs, that should not be hard, especially since I've not been hearing complaints about difficult threat management.
All of this just brings me back to my stance that it might be better to have heroics easier, and have more hard modes. Not just heroic achievements, but actual loot generated from dealing with a boss in a particular way, or an unlockable boss. That way people can pug all of the 5 mans on two tiers, and see all of that "content"(the atmosphere etc of the interiors), and there's still one more level of difficulty that can be ratcheted up.
You're right, as a tank you can't make up for completely mouthbreathers in your groups. You can either help them learn to play better through calm and patient instructions, or you can kick them. Yeah, sometimes they won't listen, but you might be surprised how often they do, how often people just don't KNOW any better and are happy to improve. Hell, I had to spend ten minutes explaining to a warlock what the concepts of 'upwind' and 'downwind' even MEANT before we were able to down a boss. But after I did, the wipefest turned into the clean attempt, and we were moving towards the next trash.
It's barely a day past the first week of the expansion. People are adjusting. To just write every one off as an idiot who simply CAN'T improve is doing a disservice to both them and to yourself. They will get better, and the heroics will seem easier.
Frankly, I stopped running heroics in Wrath because it was dull as hell sleepwalking my way through mobs. No, the cata heroics are not easy, but they're not impossible. They're a challenge. And I like challenge.
I am a freaking nerd.
Riding my bike into a wall and falling off and skinning my arms isn't challenging, it's painful and annoying.
I really don't get how you can say it's Blizzard's fault that the player base sucks yet claim that they won't learn and improve with the new challenge of Cata heroics. The game has been out for a week. I remember still using CC in WOTLK heroics one month into the expansion.
(un)Happy: DK hasn't done any Cata leveling/gearing yet, so it kinda sucks to lose the costume when an 83/84 character gets him in their sights.
Huh? : Not sure what's up with the hat, and the blue post doesn't entirely help:
I guess this means the hats aren't showing up until next Saturday?
And for the Northrend dungeons, are those normal? Heroic? Both?
I haven't used CC since the nerf to dungeons and raids in BC.
Yea.. i dont ever remember using CC in wrath, ever, even when it first came out and we hit 80 and went to heroics. It was tough, not this tough, but manageable. Naxx being doable right out and puggable didnt help, so you pretty much squashed any heroic with naxx gear. I remember sheeping in BC, which was easy. Then i suddenly had to learn to sap with the rogue, and i dont remember but did you need to talent into it or talent into it for a bigger range or something? Improved sap or something. Now that was training. Learning to distract/sap, failing and having to deal with it with prob a wipe or at least you could overcome it somehow. Places like shattered halls with a warrior before the aoe tanking stuff came into being, now that grew hair on your balls(we didnt have a paly tank until much later into BC). I know its a week, and we will all learn more and adapt more. Just some of this stuff.. oi.
HOWEVER - to say that Blizzard is not "training" people is bullshit because they ARE. You simply have to level a new character. All the new content involes mini-boss fights every couple of quests. Every little storyline ends with you fighting some elite mob with some form of mechanic, and the mechanic gets crazier and you get less help every time. It's a 1-80 training guide for the mechanics of the game and what to expect. It really is.
Now that doesn't mean that if you're level 80 you should have to go through leveling a character to "learn the new stuff." You learn that shit by running it, but the new breed of characters that are playing WoW for the first time, or have not done so in a long time, will be able to understand these fights. Challanges are challanges. If you're pissed because you wipe a few times, then you've got some issues to get over. Video games kill you. That is why the death penalty is NOTHING. You simply go back to your body and maybe fork out a bit of EASY AS SHIT TO MAKE Gold to repair yourself.
The new shit simply takes teams. And with the guild system in place it is clearly obvious that Blizzard would like people to focus in guilds. They want you to become a part of something to "feel" like you belong in that group. LFD is great, but you have to expect that in ANY situation in life, if you're suddenly put up with a few other strangers and asked to do something you don't know... it's gonna suck. Shit, that is what the basis of most reality T.V. shows are.
TL;DR: It's not that hard, it is a challenge, take the time to get in with a good guild/group, expect nothing and don't be frustrated over changes that will change, and change again.