Err...why? There's a lot you can do in a match to stop Phoenix from going D. Phoenix, and nothing you can do to stop Sentinel from being Sentinel. I think Phoenix is a sort of wonky character design but she's caused some interesting situations in matches, while Sentinel does the exact opposite and makes everything lame with giant robot battles. And nothing has a right to make a giant robot battle lame, but yet Sentinel has managed it anyway.
Err...why? There's a lot you can do in a match to stop Phoenix from going D. Phoenix, and nothing you can do to stop Sentinel from being Sentinel. I think Phoenix is a sort of wonky character design but she's caused some interesting situations in matches, while Sentinel does the exact opposite and makes everything lame with giant robot battles. And nothing has a right to make a giant robot battle lame, but yet Sentinel has managed it anyway.
People suddenly lose their balls and start avoiding her for a time out. Case in point, what you just saw on the stream.
Err...why? There's a lot you can do in a match to stop Phoenix from going D. Phoenix, and nothing you can do to stop Sentinel from being Sentinel. I think Phoenix is a sort of wonky character design but she's caused some interesting situations in matches, while Sentinel does the exact opposite and makes everything lame with giant robot battles. And nothing has a right to make a giant robot battle lame, but yet Sentinel has managed it anyway.
Phoenix is already a huge threat. She doesn't even need Dark Phoenix to fuck a lot of characters up.
People suddenly lose their balls and start avoiding her for a time out. Case in point, what you just saw on the stream.
It's a valid tactic in ANY match, though. The time limit is honestly just about right, because you can run out of time just during normal play with a variety of teams. And I've seen enough good snapback use to know you don't have to time out Phoenix. The game's still new, as people get used to it all you won't see nearly as much hiding from Phoenix.
Phoenix at least has some drawbacks in the form of her extremely small health pool and the need to have 5 bars to activate Dark Phoenix mode.
Sentinel does the most damage, has the most health, has one of the easiest 100% combos in the game (with super armor to help start it to boot), decent mobility considering the first two things, and the ability to hit at range. Literally the only drawback is his hitbox, which is part of what JWong exploited in his match against RyRy.
It's possible that Sentinel won't win any majors unless JWong switches to him, but I'm reasonably sure he's going to be heavily represented in the top 8 of any major. He's just too good not to use, and it takes an extraordinarily good player to exploit his one weakness.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Err...why? There's a lot you can do in a match to stop Phoenix from going D. Phoenix, and nothing you can do to stop Sentinel from being Sentinel. I think Phoenix is a sort of wonky character design but she's caused some interesting situations in matches, while Sentinel does the exact opposite and makes everything lame with giant robot battles. And nothing has a right to make a giant robot battle lame, but yet Sentinel has managed it anyway.
Phoenix is already a huge threat. She doesn't even need Dark Phoenix to fuck a lot of characters up.
Yeah. A lot of people were losing to her because they were worrying too much about Dark Phoenix while Jean herself was still a threat.
Sentinel is a low-investment, high-return character. Nothing more, nothing less. Ultimate scrub buster that will wipe you out in one combo if you make a mistake, but gets owned pretty hard by good rushdown. He only really gives me trouble when he's covered by an excellent assist (eg Hidden Missiles).
Phoenix, though, I can't touch her at all with some characters. Doubly so without meter.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
Yeah. Like I said, he's vanilla SF4 Sagat x10.
He's annoying and he is good...but as you get used to playing against him(and you will because everyone will be playing him) he becomes less annoying.
Sentinel is a low-investment, high-return character. Nothing more, nothing less. Ultimate scrub buster that will wipe you out in one combo if you make a mistake, but gets owned pretty hard by good rushdown. He only really gives me trouble when he's covered by an excellent assist (eg Hidden Missiles).
Phoenix, though, I can't touch her at all with some characters. Doubly so without meter.
But how hard is it to pair Sentinel up with a halfway decent assist? Phoenix can keepaway really well, but then the one time she doesn't she's gone. And there's plenty of similar characters that are just as obnoxious to kill with more HP (and arguably better assists, when we're not talking Dark Phoenix at least).
He's annoying and he is good...but as you get used to playing against him(and you will because everyone will be playing him) he becomes less annoying.
^ He isn't broken, he's just disgustingly good. There are characters that do well against him (even dominate him), and I think people need to worry more about figuring out how to fight him than complaining about him. He's not going to be banned or anything and he isn't going anywhere.
Fuck his drone assist though. Fuck THAT.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
He's annoying and he is good...but as you get used to playing against him(and you will because everyone will be playing him) he becomes less annoying.
^ He isn't broken, he's just disgustingly good. There are characters that do well against him (even dominate him), and I think people need to worry more about figuring out how to fight him than complaining about him. He's not going to be banned or anything and he isn't going anywhere.
Fuck his drone assist though. Fuck THAT.
I like the Sagat comparison, the x10 not so much. Like Sagat, he suffers from "that too? really?" syndrome. He has some of the best assists, he has the best health, he deals great damage, he has one of the best X-Factors, he has a really invulnerable hyper, he has a really safe hyper (that doesn't have to be on the screen to complete, making it great to DHC from), he does crazy chip damage, he can combo his super safe hyper into another hyper in the corner, he can otg for himself from full screen into his hypers, he has a great zoning game, he has super armor normals, etc.
A FEW of those assets are fine. ALL of them? It's just a bit much. It's also really offensive how good he is at anything and everything while also being generic henchmen fodder used by the X-Men for target practice. I mean, if this was someone who was stupid powerful in the Marvel universe, at least it would make sense.
Ahh, nothing like ruining someone's night like playing Ranked online. Earlier in the day I did pretty good, but at night, that's when all the Dantes and Wolverines crop up.
One motherfucker dual-used Dante and Zero, resulting in some infinite assist combo that I absolutely could not find a way out of. He completely annihilated two of my three guys in a single combo. Only when I X-Factored Wolverine and took out his two guys did it look like I would win, but his Phoenix barely struggled a win.
I am making some horrible mistakes, and until I learn to correct them, I'll never be on an even playing field.
1. When launching people, do I need to just hold straight up when jumping? Most of the time I find myself passing right under their feet, completely ruining the air combo.
2. When I'm launched in the air, I can't seem to find any way to counter them when I hit the bottom. People keep juggling me with attacks. Should I just on landing somewhere safe instead of trying to intercept them from above?
3. I love Iron Man's specials, but he seems to have an absolutely horrible launch radius. Currently my default team is Wolvie, Spidey, and Tony, but I'm starting to think I should swap him for Ryu instead.
4. Dr Cocksucking Doom. People keep using him, hanging back, and constantly firing his super-fast energy blasts. I still haven't figured out the best way to get close and punish him.
5. But the worst contender by far is Amaterasu, although the same question applies to anyone: how the hell do you punish turtles in this game?
6. Is it better to bust out an assist as a counter, or during a combo? So far the best I can do is use them as a distraction, but I'm nowhere close to using them strategically.
Ahh, nothing like ruining someone's night like playing Ranked online. Earlier in the day I did pretty good, but at night, that's when all the Dantes and Wolverines crop up.
One motherfucker dual-used Dante and Zero, resulting in some infinite assist combo that I absolutely could not find a way out of. He completely annihilated two of my three guys in a single combo. Only when I X-Factored Wolverine and took out his two guys did it look like I would win, but his Phoenix barely struggled a win.
I am making some horrible mistakes, and until I learn to correct them, I'll never be on an even playing field.
1. When launching people, do I need to just hold straight up when jumping? Most of the time I find myself passing right under their feet, completely ruining the air combo.
2. When I'm launched in the air, I can't seem to find any way to counter them when I hit the bottom. People keep juggling me with attacks. Should I just on landing somewhere safe instead of trying to intercept them from above?
3. I love Iron Man's specials, but he seems to have an absolutely horrible launch radius. Currently my default team is Wolvie, Spidey, and Tony, but I'm starting to think I should swap him for Ryu instead.
4. Dr Cocksucking Doom. People keep using him, hanging back, and constantly firing his super-fast energy blasts. I still haven't figured out the best way to get close and punish him.
5. But the worst contender by far is Amaterasu, although the same question applies to anyone: how the hell do you punish turtles in this game?
6. Is it better to bust out an assist as a counter, or during a combo? So far the best I can do is use them as a distraction, but I'm nowhere close to using them strategically.
1) Yes, usually straight up. Different characters might require different jumps, but off S up works.
2) When they launch you back at the bottom, you are still in a comboable state. You can't do anything.
3) Pick one character you like the most. Then come back and we'll tell you what characters compliment that character.
4) Super jump (tap down, then up) at them. It's incredibly difficult to win a beam war with Doom since he has some of the most durable projectiles. There might be character specific ways for you to win. Other than that, think of it like street fighter. Block, hop, and work your way in.
5) Again, character specific strategies. Characters like Magneto have less powerful beams but are faster and can stuff the startup of ranged moves. Other characters can teleport, other characters have moves that blow past projectiles.
6) It depends on the assist. Certain assists are good for maintaining pressure and advancing on your opponent (using a good beam or projectile assist as covering fire for an advance), others are good for opening up combo options and tricky situations (high or low attacks), and still others can be used to extend combos (otg assists, or lockdown assists like Chun's). It's going to really depend on the assists you have, and the character out on point.
Phoenix seems incredibly high risk for good reward. I think the risk with her far outweighs her reward, personally. Watching the tournament stream over the weekend solidified this opinion for me.
She just has so many drawbacks. You lose an assist, or you take a huge risk by calling her in as an assist. If she gets tagged she is very likely to die in one combo. You have to try to save meter instead of being able to spend it freely, this means less safe DHCs for your team and less ability to capitalize on damage on random combo opportunities. If the enemy knows a combo that ends in a snapback it is even a larger liability. When Phoenix comes in she is vulnerable and the enemy is likely to pressure her. Once again, one good combo and she is dead. If you want to get her back to safety you are going to have to DHC her out which will cost you 2 meters, or hard tag back in, which is very risky. Either way its a bad spot and when you do get her out there's nothing keeping the enemy from snapbacking her right back in. A lot of people also try to save their x-factor for dark phoenix, which means you are also not using it to capitalize on random opportunities like catching a player and their assist. Lastly, even if you do manage to get phoenix out in dark phoenix mode, yes, she is quite scary and does quite good damage but one good combo still kills her dead.
She's certainly a fun character and a unique idea, and I am happy she is in the game, but to me she is a giant liability on a team. The reward from her can be huge, however, I feel the risk is even greater.
I really don't have a favorite setup, as I've yet to really get the hang out of them. Right now it's been mostly Wolverine, Spidey, and Iron Man, but I'm open to swapping the third with someone else.
I might switch off Spidey too, as I end up web swinging way too much than I would prefer (not the command version, the S+A one).
Also, on the topic of sentinel there seems to be a few characters that just utterly ruin him. I am forgetting who the other character who is really good at it is but Amaterasu absolutely shreds him. She's immune to most of sentinel's zoning due to her height, can zone him incredibly well with cold star, can do large combos on him and can easily run away from him all day. Of course, her lower health pool does mean that if sentinel gets a combo in on you its scary, so you have to know what you are doing but yeah, watching Wong's Amaterasu go up against Sentinel made Sentinel look like one of the weakest characters in the game.
I really don't have a favorite setup, as I've yet to really get the hang out of them. Right now it's been mostly Wolverine, Spidey, and Iron Man, but I'm open to swapping the third with someone else.
I might switch off Spidey too, as I end up web swinging way too much than I would prefer (not the command version, the S+A one).
Not a favorite setup. Just a character. The easiest way to get started on this game is pick one character, and then build a team around that character.
Also I am curious to hear where Seb may have ended up finding his shoes. I overheard him saying they were missing at the tourney. I didn't get to introduce myself because I forgot he was there and didn't know what he looked like.
Oh jeez, people heard that I lost my shoes? I was waaay more concerned about capturing the money matches than keeping track of where my shoes went -___-
On the topic of assists, I've found my best teams have had:
1. An OTG assist. This is essential for continuing combos and getting big damage. Examples include Wesker, Sentinel, She-Hulk, Skrull, Storm, lots of others. If you don't like any of the characters with an OTG assist, consider assists with capture properties like Magneto's Hyper Gravitation that can allow you to extend combos when paired with a point character's OTG attack. Example: Tron can OTG with Down+H, but usually can't do anything afterward except the boulder. With Hyper Grav, however, she can hold the opponent in place momentarily after the down+H and continue comboing.
2. An assist that counters either keep-away or rushdown. This depends on your team composition. If you have a lot of heavy hitters with short range, an anti-rushdown assist is best. Tron Flames, Haggar Lariet, Sentinel Force, Akuma Hurricane Kick, and Hsien-Ko Pendulum are great at getting fast rushdown characters to slow their roll. If you're having trouble getting across the screen to keepaway characters, any of the beam assists or powerful multi-hitting projectiles (Iron Man, Dr. Doom, Magneto, Arthur, Chris, Deadpool) can create openings to dash in.
3. A lockdown assist. This can be either long or short range, but the most important part is that it be fairly invincible and preferably hit multiple times. Opponents may block these easily, but the important thing is that their assault is broken up and their attention must be divided between both your point character and the assist. These tend to overlap with anti-rushdown assists, with a few more additions including Doom Hidden Missiles, Tron Drill, Sentinel Force, Amaterasu Cold Star, Storm Whirlwind, and Spencer Aaaaaarm.
Two of my assists right now are geared specifically for extending combos (She-Hulk Torpedo and Magneto Hyper Grav) and one is for anti-rushdown/lockdown (Tron flames, which I totally used a few days before Justin made it cool).
So I've been rocking Arthur (fire bottles), doom (hidden missiles), and tron (fire) recently. Been working out pretty well. Arthur is the man for chip damage as he hides behind dooms hidden missiles. Then if they get in close Tron gets them out of my face. Once things get a bit ugly, Golden Armor and DHC into Doom which seems to work well together. Only thing is Dooms Hidden Missile assist is really exposed and I can't figure out how to combo any of Trons Hypers - I never connect and I'm left with 3-5 bars by the end of every match.
Anyway I went up against a Magneto/Wolverine/Akuma player spamming Mag's beam attack all day long, Arthur's double lance goes through but the timing is really tricky as Magneto is way faster. We finished up 3-3 and stopped. Every match was decided by who's projectile character won the first matchup. Tron and Doom could barely double jump/air dash in for enough damage at a time as Mag's chip damage is pretty sick. Every time I called an assist he would do Mag's hyper as well.
Any tips for beating Mag spammers? I guess I just need to learn to combo better.
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And it may just be that Sentinel is easy to dominate with at lower levels but the experts know how to find his weaknesses. Or something.
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TWITTER TWATS
This and sentinel being a terrible character are not mutually exclusive.
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Your hatred for Sent is but a fraction of what I feel for Dark Phoenix/Phoenix
TWITTER TWATS
I am sad.
People suddenly lose their balls and start avoiding her for a time out. Case in point, what you just saw on the stream.
TWITTER TWATS
It's a valid tactic in ANY match, though. The time limit is honestly just about right, because you can run out of time just during normal play with a variety of teams. And I've seen enough good snapback use to know you don't have to time out Phoenix. The game's still new, as people get used to it all you won't see nearly as much hiding from Phoenix.
Sentinel does the most damage, has the most health, has one of the easiest 100% combos in the game (with super armor to help start it to boot), decent mobility considering the first two things, and the ability to hit at range. Literally the only drawback is his hitbox, which is part of what JWong exploited in his match against RyRy.
It's possible that Sentinel won't win any majors unless JWong switches to him, but I'm reasonably sure he's going to be heavily represented in the top 8 of any major. He's just too good not to use, and it takes an extraordinarily good player to exploit his one weakness.
Yeah. A lot of people were losing to her because they were worrying too much about Dark Phoenix while Jean herself was still a threat.
Phoenix, though, I can't touch her at all with some characters. Doubly so without meter.
He's annoying and he is good...but as you get used to playing against him(and you will because everyone will be playing him) he becomes less annoying.
But how hard is it to pair Sentinel up with a halfway decent assist? Phoenix can keepaway really well, but then the one time she doesn't she's gone. And there's plenty of similar characters that are just as obnoxious to kill with more HP (and arguably better assists, when we're not talking Dark Phoenix at least).
^ He isn't broken, he's just disgustingly good. There are characters that do well against him (even dominate him), and I think people need to worry more about figuring out how to fight him than complaining about him. He's not going to be banned or anything and he isn't going anywhere.
Fuck his drone assist though. Fuck THAT.
I like the Sagat comparison, the x10 not so much. Like Sagat, he suffers from "that too? really?" syndrome. He has some of the best assists, he has the best health, he deals great damage, he has one of the best X-Factors, he has a really invulnerable hyper, he has a really safe hyper (that doesn't have to be on the screen to complete, making it great to DHC from), he does crazy chip damage, he can combo his super safe hyper into another hyper in the corner, he can otg for himself from full screen into his hypers, he has a great zoning game, he has super armor normals, etc.
A FEW of those assets are fine. ALL of them? It's just a bit much. It's also really offensive how good he is at anything and everything while also being generic henchmen fodder used by the X-Men for target practice. I mean, if this was someone who was stupid powerful in the Marvel universe, at least it would make sense.
One motherfucker dual-used Dante and Zero, resulting in some infinite assist combo that I absolutely could not find a way out of. He completely annihilated two of my three guys in a single combo. Only when I X-Factored Wolverine and took out his two guys did it look like I would win, but his Phoenix barely struggled a win.
I am making some horrible mistakes, and until I learn to correct them, I'll never be on an even playing field.
1. When launching people, do I need to just hold straight up when jumping? Most of the time I find myself passing right under their feet, completely ruining the air combo.
2. When I'm launched in the air, I can't seem to find any way to counter them when I hit the bottom. People keep juggling me with attacks. Should I just on landing somewhere safe instead of trying to intercept them from above?
3. I love Iron Man's specials, but he seems to have an absolutely horrible launch radius. Currently my default team is Wolvie, Spidey, and Tony, but I'm starting to think I should swap him for Ryu instead.
4. Dr Cocksucking Doom. People keep using him, hanging back, and constantly firing his super-fast energy blasts. I still haven't figured out the best way to get close and punish him.
5. But the worst contender by far is Amaterasu, although the same question applies to anyone: how the hell do you punish turtles in this game?
6. Is it better to bust out an assist as a counter, or during a combo? So far the best I can do is use them as a distraction, but I'm nowhere close to using them strategically.
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Indeed it was. I was all up in the stream lol. Also my ps3 arcade stick won both the mvc3 tourneys while loaned out.
1) Yes, usually straight up. Different characters might require different jumps, but off S up works.
2) When they launch you back at the bottom, you are still in a comboable state. You can't do anything.
3) Pick one character you like the most. Then come back and we'll tell you what characters compliment that character.
4) Super jump (tap down, then up) at them. It's incredibly difficult to win a beam war with Doom since he has some of the most durable projectiles. There might be character specific ways for you to win. Other than that, think of it like street fighter. Block, hop, and work your way in.
5) Again, character specific strategies. Characters like Magneto have less powerful beams but are faster and can stuff the startup of ranged moves. Other characters can teleport, other characters have moves that blow past projectiles.
6) It depends on the assist. Certain assists are good for maintaining pressure and advancing on your opponent (using a good beam or projectile assist as covering fire for an advance), others are good for opening up combo options and tricky situations (high or low attacks), and still others can be used to extend combos (otg assists, or lockdown assists like Chun's). It's going to really depend on the assists you have, and the character out on point.
She just has so many drawbacks. You lose an assist, or you take a huge risk by calling her in as an assist. If she gets tagged she is very likely to die in one combo. You have to try to save meter instead of being able to spend it freely, this means less safe DHCs for your team and less ability to capitalize on damage on random combo opportunities. If the enemy knows a combo that ends in a snapback it is even a larger liability. When Phoenix comes in she is vulnerable and the enemy is likely to pressure her. Once again, one good combo and she is dead. If you want to get her back to safety you are going to have to DHC her out which will cost you 2 meters, or hard tag back in, which is very risky. Either way its a bad spot and when you do get her out there's nothing keeping the enemy from snapbacking her right back in. A lot of people also try to save their x-factor for dark phoenix, which means you are also not using it to capitalize on random opportunities like catching a player and their assist. Lastly, even if you do manage to get phoenix out in dark phoenix mode, yes, she is quite scary and does quite good damage but one good combo still kills her dead.
She's certainly a fun character and a unique idea, and I am happy she is in the game, but to me she is a giant liability on a team. The reward from her can be huge, however, I feel the risk is even greater.
I might switch off Spidey too, as I end up web swinging way too much than I would prefer (not the command version, the S+A one).
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It was like watching Tager vs. v-13.
Not a favorite setup. Just a character. The easiest way to get started on this game is pick one character, and then build a team around that character.
RyRy pretty much carried yipes and sanford.
1. An OTG assist. This is essential for continuing combos and getting big damage. Examples include Wesker, Sentinel, She-Hulk, Skrull, Storm, lots of others. If you don't like any of the characters with an OTG assist, consider assists with capture properties like Magneto's Hyper Gravitation that can allow you to extend combos when paired with a point character's OTG attack. Example: Tron can OTG with Down+H, but usually can't do anything afterward except the boulder. With Hyper Grav, however, she can hold the opponent in place momentarily after the down+H and continue comboing.
2. An assist that counters either keep-away or rushdown. This depends on your team composition. If you have a lot of heavy hitters with short range, an anti-rushdown assist is best. Tron Flames, Haggar Lariet, Sentinel Force, Akuma Hurricane Kick, and Hsien-Ko Pendulum are great at getting fast rushdown characters to slow their roll. If you're having trouble getting across the screen to keepaway characters, any of the beam assists or powerful multi-hitting projectiles (Iron Man, Dr. Doom, Magneto, Arthur, Chris, Deadpool) can create openings to dash in.
3. A lockdown assist. This can be either long or short range, but the most important part is that it be fairly invincible and preferably hit multiple times. Opponents may block these easily, but the important thing is that their assault is broken up and their attention must be divided between both your point character and the assist. These tend to overlap with anti-rushdown assists, with a few more additions including Doom Hidden Missiles, Tron Drill, Sentinel Force, Amaterasu Cold Star, Storm Whirlwind, and Spencer Aaaaaarm.
Two of my assists right now are geared specifically for extending combos (She-Hulk Torpedo and Magneto Hyper Grav) and one is for anti-rushdown/lockdown (Tron flames, which I totally used a few days before Justin made it cool).
Anyway I went up against a Magneto/Wolverine/Akuma player spamming Mag's beam attack all day long, Arthur's double lance goes through but the timing is really tricky as Magneto is way faster. We finished up 3-3 and stopped. Every match was decided by who's projectile character won the first matchup. Tron and Doom could barely double jump/air dash in for enough damage at a time as Mag's chip damage is pretty sick. Every time I called an assist he would do Mag's hyper as well.
Any tips for beating Mag spammers? I guess I just need to learn to combo better.
Double jump more.