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But Is It Art?

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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    SoaL wrote: »
    why is the emphasis for a game exhibit "a focus on striking visual effects and the creative use of new technologies."

    why not emphasize what is unique to videogames

    (the game part)
    ...the creative use of new technologies.

    I feel like this will include that.

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    SoaL wrote: »
    why is the emphasis for a game exhibit "a focus on striking visual effects and the creative use of new technologies."

    why not emphasize what is unique to videogames

    (the game part)

    so..what exactly is the "game" part?

    Druhim on
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    A Brief Look Into the Iconic Image of the Cheeto-dusted Neckbeard and its Effect on the Post-Civil Rights Movement Society

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    SoaL wrote: »
    why is the emphasis for a game exhibit "a focus on striking visual effects and the creative use of new technologies."

    why not emphasize what is unique to videogames

    (the game part)
    ...the creative use of new technologies.

    I feel like this will include that.

    i... don't



    anyways whatever games as art games as art jonathan blow



    the game part is the rules of the game

    the part where you are playing the game

    SoaL on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    we talked about game mechanics a few pages back, SoaL
    if you want to look

    Tam on
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    SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I did and I liked the discussion

    and now it is gone

    but i still have this boner

    SoaL on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    SoaL wrote: »
    SoaL wrote: »
    why is the emphasis for a game exhibit "a focus on striking visual effects and the creative use of new technologies."

    why not emphasize what is unique to videogames

    (the game part)
    ...the creative use of new technologies.

    I feel like this will include that.

    i... don't



    anyways whatever games as art games as art jonathan blow



    the game part is the rules of the game

    the part where you are playing the game

    I like how you think this is really narrowing it down while making it distinct from the technology and interface.
    Hint: it's not.

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    BoomShakeBoomShake The Engineer Columbia, MDRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If you read the paragraph on the actual voting page it says:
    "Remember, this is an art exhibition, so be sure to vote for games that you think are visually spectacular or boast innovative design"

    "Game Design" encompasses what you're looking for.

    BoomShake on
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    SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Druhim wrote: »
    SoaL wrote: »
    SoaL wrote: »
    why is the emphasis for a game exhibit "a focus on striking visual effects and the creative use of new technologies."

    why not emphasize what is unique to videogames

    (the game part)
    ...the creative use of new technologies.

    I feel like this will include that.

    i... don't



    anyways whatever games as art games as art jonathan blow



    the game part is the rules of the game

    the part where you are playing the game

    I like how you think this is really narrowing it down while making it distinct from the technology and interface.
    Hint: it's not.

    i didn't say that nor did i mention interface, you jokester


    the game part I am talking about is the rules of the game and how you interact with them

    I don't know how to make this clearer I am pretty bad with words

    SoaL on
    DKFA7.gif
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    SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ok as I see it

    The exhibit covers a whole lot of different aspects of videogames



    And I would like to have seen it just be about what makes games different


    but I can't have everything I want!

    SoaL on
    DKFA7.gif
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    SoaL wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    SoaL wrote: »
    SoaL wrote: »
    why is the emphasis for a game exhibit "a focus on striking visual effects and the creative use of new technologies."

    why not emphasize what is unique to videogames

    (the game part)
    ...the creative use of new technologies.

    I feel like this will include that.

    i... don't



    anyways whatever games as art games as art jonathan blow



    the game part is the rules of the game

    the part where you are playing the game

    I like how you think this is really narrowing it down while making it distinct from the technology and interface.
    Hint: it's not.

    i didn't say that nor did i mention interface, you jokester


    the game part I am talking about is the rules of the game and how you interact with them

    I don't know how to make this clearer I am pretty bad with words

    Well, the interface seems to me to fundamentally be under the category of technology. Considering the interface for a game has to be designed and being graphical, is absolutely constrained to some extent by the technology of the hardware and software it's running on. You couldn't have an interface like ME2 on an NES game.

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    pookapooka Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 vs Ikaruga. hrm. Ikaruga combine its visuals with gameplay in a way integral to progression, whereas the flashes of light in GW create more challenge while playing. GW has such a distinct, vibrant style, with constantly changing elements, but Ikaruga's classic, complex backgrounds are lovely and contribute story. Ikaruga is brutal but pattern-based, and GW is a lot more approachable for a novice. Geometry Wars is tons of fun, but i think Ikaruga represents more of a leap if they're compared.

    some of the choices, like Okami, required no hesitation. and while God of War was groundbreaking in its genre-bending, compared to Shadow of the Colossus . . .

    constantly apples and oranges with these choices, augh!

    pooka on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    sweet jesus, are all those shapes trying to kill you?

    edit: Ikaruga was terrifying. It seems like Geometry Wars was no less so.

    Tam on
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    StaleghotiStaleghoti Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    nothing is friendly in GW ever

    Staleghoti on
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    Dear satan I wish for this or maybe some of this....oh and I'm a medium or a large.
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    CrashmoCrashmo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    GW is an eyegasm if you're good at it

    Crashmo on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    juggling porcupines on the edge of a cliff while your hair is on fire
    that's what those sorts of games are like

    Tam on
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    ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Uriel wrote: »
    Oh goodness, Shadowgate is listed for adventure on NES.

    I didn't know anyone else ever played that.

    Not only have I played the heck out of that game, the music is seared into my brain!

    I have one of the shadowgate midi files set as my ringtone when work calls. I find it appropriate.

    Viscountalpha on
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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Loved Shadowgate, Déjà Vu and Uninvited on the NES.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xA688rXaMI

    Macro9 on
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Déjà Vu probably has the most memorable cover art ever, with Planescape Torment coming in second.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    WoW vs. KOTOR

    Gee thanks Smithsonian

    BusterK on
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    Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Did anyone figure out why Dragon Age is listed for PS3? They really threw the multi-platform releases into weird categories. And why was P.N.03 on the Gamecube section? I didn't know anyone but me was even aware of its' existence.

    Z0re on
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    Publius Aelius HadrianusPublius Aelius Hadrianus Permanently bland Seattle, Washington Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    wtf kind of asshole makes me choose between LOZ: LTTP, Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound?

    and

    Grandia, FFVII, and Lunar SSS?

    Publius Aelius Hadrianus on
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    AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The kind of asshole that's invested enough in his work to post in this thread.

    Aneurhythmia on
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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    redhead wrote: »
    A lot of the "videogames are totally art" crowd focuses on examples of videogames with an interesting and beautiful visual style and/or a really compelling story. I guess the idea there is everybody already agrees that exciting and innovate visuals are one kind of art, and compelling stories with strong characters are another, and if you can prove videogames can have one or the other then I guess you've got yourself an art right there. Ok.

    I think that's kind of a lamer argument than could be otherwise made, though, because it doesn't point to anything really unique or interesting about videogames themselves that can't be done elsewhere. So if videogames are art--which personally I mean why not, what isn't art these days you know--then I think the best examples are going to be not the really story-heavy or interesting-visuals or whatever kind of games, but the games with really strong, fluid, intuitive gameplay mechanics, because that's something actually unique to videogames.

    So when I think of videogames as art I think, weirdly, of games like Quake 3 and (the multiplayer of) Starcraft, where, visuals and story and such left completely to one side, there's clearly something present in the way the game was designed that allows players at the very highest levels of skill to explore deeper and deeper into the game's strategies without it ever ceasing to be interesting and surprising. In games like that, increases in mechanical skill (APM and precision and execution in Starcraft; general movement and aim in Quake) aren't an end in themselves but lead to the opening up of new strategies: if you can micro your drones better than anyone else thought possible, maybe you can fend off that rush without having to sacrifice economy for zerglings; if your lg is astounding, maybe you can stay and fight for armors/megas you 'should' have to run away from.

    I dunno maybe what I'm sort of drooling over here isn't really art but just really good game design, or not videogames as art but game design as art, or something, if there's a difference. Someone could say that and I wouldn't really vehemently disagree because I don't think I have much of an idea what art is anyway.

    But whatever it is that I'm seeing there (and in other games, and in some singleplayer games too except it's harder there to separate it from the story/visuals/whatever stuff and narrow down what is uniquely videogame-y about it) is probably something really awesome and worthy (I think, as a huge gaynerd) of maybe being thought about at length, art or no.
    StarCraft and HL2 are games which I'd definitely call art.
    Sc because it takes the formula of strategy games and polished it with so much handiwork that it becomes incredible, an experience perhaps comparable to speed chess, but something very unique.
    And HL2 simply because it took me away with it and never let me go :P
    For a similar reason, but with rather different gameplay, I love ME (2); because the world feels like something that could be real, a fantastic construct of creative minds where you can spend time

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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    cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Lunar SSS was nominated but not TSS? Weird.
    (The remakes aren't even half as good as the originals)

    cj iwakura on
    wVEsyIc.png
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    wtf kind of asshole makes me choose between LOZ: LTTP, Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound?

    and

    Grandia, FFVII, and Lunar SSS?

    funny, you'd think for the choice to be meaningful it should be difficult

    I mean, sure it could have been between Chrono Trigger and Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone but then it's not really a choice is it?

    Druhim on
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    ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    are the choices actually combined? that's not really meaningful at all

    would you pick goatse/mona lisa or a bowl of fruit

    oh hey look guys bowl of fruit is better art than mona lisa we voted

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    Zoel wrote: »
    are the choices actually combined? that's not really meaningful at all

    would you pick goatse/mona lisa or a bowl of fruit

    oh hey look guys bowl of fruit is better art than mona lisa we voted

    have you even looked at the voting site?

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The choices are organized in groups of four based on Era/Generation then system.

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    thorgotthorgot there is special providence in the fall of a sparrowRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I like Chris. He seems nice. We should have him over more.

    Thanks! Btw, I will be at PAX East to discuss the museum project in the game preservation panel. I have been a speaker at PAX for several years on a bunch of topics, from the future of PC hardware to moderating the Code Monkey's session, but my first time at PAX East. Should be fun and I get to explain why E.T. Made the list :)

    i think we were all wondering this

    thorgot on
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah...

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The work of art involving E.T. was actually Still Life With Cartridges, an installation piece located in the New Mexico desert

    Grey Ghost on
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    ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Druhim wrote: »
    Zoel wrote: »
    are the choices actually combined? that's not really meaningful at all

    would you pick goatse/mona lisa or a bowl of fruit

    oh hey look guys bowl of fruit is better art than mona lisa we voted

    have you even looked at the voting site?

    no. not gonna sign up for shit.

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You really just have to put in your e-mail and that's it.

    Nothing else.

    You don't even have to wait for confirmation e-mail.

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    Zoel wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Zoel wrote: »
    are the choices actually combined? that's not really meaningful at all

    would you pick goatse/mona lisa or a bowl of fruit

    oh hey look guys bowl of fruit is better art than mona lisa we voted

    have you even looked at the voting site?

    no. not gonna sign up for shit.

    ok, good
    I can keep ignoring your opinion then

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    cool.

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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    SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    *quotes post*

    *claims to be ignoring quoted post*

    SoaL on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    nah, not ignoring his post
    ignoring his uninformed opinion after he clarified that he couldn't be bothered to actually go to the site and see for himself before expressing his opinion

    so you know, there's that little difference there

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    CMelissinosCMelissinos Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Zoel wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Zoel wrote: »
    are the choices actually combined? that's not really meaningful at all

    would you pick goatse/mona lisa or a bowl of fruit

    oh hey look guys bowl of fruit is better art than mona lisa we voted

    have you even looked at the voting site?

    no. not gonna sign up for shit.

    <bad joke removed>

    All joking aside this is exactly the issue that faces curators. If you had to pick one to put in the exhibition, which would it be? That's the challenge. I have one game for each of four genres, across 20 consoles, 80 games in all. I could have picked the 80 games and been done with it but wanted to allow gamers to have a voice.

    I am able to still have the narrative that we set up with either of the 3 as the games are there in service of the narrative.

    Hope you'll reconsider and vote!

    Chris Melissinos

    CMelissinos on
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    CMelissinosCMelissinos Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Double post

    CMelissinos on
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