Kyubey openly states to Homura after the defeat of the WPN that he has more than enough energy to counter the entropy. Didn't even need to kill Witch Madoka for it.
His 'fuck yall got mine' attitude doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that the energy that he obtained isn't infinite, but perhaps his race assumes that mankind will have long since gone extinct by the time they need energy again.
But... then why wouldn't he want to protect mankind? Maybe he just really hates us for making him have to stay in his current form (I'm assuming that's not his real body).
Perhaps Kyubey is betting that Homura's time-travelling shenanigans will result in a timeline in which Madoka's transformation does generate a near-infinite amount of energy? In each successive timeline Kyubey gets more and more energy. Once a timeline results in him getting enough energy he might try to stop Homura from creating another timeline.
That brings up another question: When Homura travels back in time, does the previous timeline go on without her as an alternate universe, or is it nullified and replaced with the newest timeline?
That one image IS a little close to lolupskirt view.
Really? I just thought it was a cool image that also lined-up the characters in a way convenient for my purposes.
I think you guys are just being paranoid, but I guess I'll try to find a different image.
I don't know if the image in the OP is still the original, but what's there as of now is totally fine. Generic pics of teen girls in skirts isn't going to be a problem; it's clearly not meant to be sexual.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The way I see it we've been subjected to bad ending after band ending with the last episode. I think purely from a writing standpoint it would be really odd to have this particular time arc end in a similar fashion.
Or at least this is what I hope because honestly I don't know if I can take much more sadness and death from this series.
I figure with the way Madoka has been slowly introduced into what a a Puella is, that the key will be what her wish is. I'm thinking some sort of Meta wish that will disrupt the entire system of energy collection.
Delphinidaes on
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The way I see it we've been subjected to bad ending after band ending with the last episode. I think purely from a writing standpoint it would be really odd to have this particular time arc end in a similar fashion.
Or at least this is what I hope because honestly I don't know if I can take much more sadness and death from this series.
I figure with the way Madoka has been slowly introduced into what a a Puella is, that the key will be what her wish is. I'm thinking some sort of Meta wish that will disrupt the entire system of energy collection.
The way I see it we've been subjected to bad ending after band ending with the last episode. I think purely from a writing standpoint it would be really odd to have this particular time arc end in a similar fashion.
Or at least this is what I hope because honestly I don't know if I can take much more sadness and death from this series.
I figure with the way Madoka has been slowly introduced into what a a Puella is, that the key will be what her wish is. I'm thinking some sort of Meta wish that will disrupt the entire system of energy collection.
"I wish that your species never existed."
"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-"
But then what about entropy?
That would be an interesting ending; Madoka saves all her friends and gets rid of the threat of Witches, but dooms the universe to heat death. Which basically means that people get to enjoy the universe for the relatively short time it's around, as opposed to perpetually suffering to delay heat death.
For the absolute best ending we'd need the system of Witches and Puella Magi to be discontinued, the fallen Puella Magi to be resurrected, and the threat of the heat death of the universe to be solved outside of Kyubey's system. How the heck could all those pieces fall into place?
The only thing I can think of would be for Madoka to realize her power and cause a deus ex machina which solves all these problems. And I don't think such an ending would go over very well.
I think the important question is whether Homura's power is a loophole in the system or making things worse.
She's taking things back with her. Knowledge of the future obviously, but other things too - Madoka sometimes has flashes of memory, and she's stronger and stronger in each iteration.
So is doing this eating up energy from the universes she goes to or the one's she's coming from? I can see a happy-ish ending where Homura just rips all the energy from one failed universe to power a rainbow and unicorns happy one.
Or we'll just get "Fuck You Kyubey" in wish form and call it a day.
Knowledge of the future obviously, but other things too - Madoka sometimes has flashes of memory, and she's stronger and stronger in each iteration.
See, I had assumed that the increase in Madoka's power in each timeline had something to do with Homura preventing her from satisfying her self-sacrificing nature in increasing degrees.
Also, it just occurred to me that we have no idea what Madoka wished for in the timelines in which she became a Puella Magi. I believe it has been stated earlier that a Puella Magi's power is related to her wish. Maybe in the timelines in which Madoka was weaker she just made some kind of throw-away wish just so she could fulfill the requirement and become a Puella Magi?
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
FFFFF I don't want to open any of those spoilers anymore!
Is there like some way we could get more Madoka art in here? I cant get over how well done that visual style they use for that other world is. I know Shaft are renowned for that brik-a-brak animation style but I think they nailed it here. It's cohesive and well realised. Ohh, and I guess it could be cleaned up in areas.
Is there like some way we could get more Madoka art in here? I cant get over how well done that visual style they use for that other world is. I know Shaft are renowned for that brik-a-brak animation style but I think they nailed it here. It's cohesive and well realised. Ohh, and I guess it could be cleaned up in areas.
Bakemonogatari is filled with weird shit. I thought those word thingies were just part of the general zaniness. I guess I was wrong.
Thanks, by the way, for this thread. I haven't been following anime since the demise of the anime thread, and I wasn't aware this show existed. I thought I had wasted my precious time and bandwidth after watching the first two and a half episodes. But those final few minutes of episode three. Holy shit...
Not that the quality was ever really bad. The first two episodes were just too slow and too saccharine. However, everything from episode four has been a roller-coaster.
So, turning into a Puella Magi has two outcomes.
1. The girl dies in battle.
2. She turns into a witch when she fails to gather enough grief seeds.
To prevent 2 from happening, it's in her best interest to
A. Allow familiars to kill humans and become witches before harvesting them
B. Kill other Puella Magi to limit the number of rivals
C. Stockpile grief seeds for future use, which has the added benefit of
D Turning rival Puella Magi into witches, by starving them of grief seeds.
This system makes it much easier for contractors to survive if they have no conscience.
However, once in a while Walpuris Night happens. There's no way a single Puella Magi could handle it alone, requiring any clever sociopath to make allies among the sheep.
Pretty great series. Definitely this season's second best.
I do have some qualms with it though. (Don't click the spoiler unless you've watched it up to episode 10.)
Homura being a time traveler was my second guess when the character was introduced. My first was that she had used her wish to break Madoka's contract and in the process it wiped her memory clean. It seemed a little too predictable even before the "big reveal" in episode 9.
Mami's death was a great development, and the catalyst for the series' quick descent into grimdarkness, so I can definitely forgive the over-foreshadowing in episode 3. I do question why exactly Homura let her trap her in the first place, and why she seemed so surprised that Mami had gotten killed... especially because it's something she has seen happen several times across every timeline.
Sayaka's fall from grace was well done, but the initial point of her downfall felt forced. I'm not sure I can relate to her reaction to the soul gem information. Here she has a body that is functionally identical to a normal human body... in fact, it is a normal human body, only its soul is severed from it physically but still linked exclusively to it. Yes, the idea of having something so intimate being tampered with is understandably nauseating... and yet, the end result is for all intents and purposes is that she's still the exact same person, but segregated into a bodily vessel and what amounts to a phylactery housing her conscience.
And finally, last but not least... Kyubei. Love the character. Hated the explanation for his mission.
His race is trying to prevent the heat death of the universe. There are two ways of doing this: creating an infinite source of energy or outright finding a way to reverse entropy itself. Harvesting the Witches' power can be used to stave off the inevitable, but it's not enough and never will be enough, as it's bound to eventually dissipate like any other finite energy source. And yet, he seems fine with letting Earth be destroyed in one of the timelines, since he allegedly had met his "quota". So, he has a finite quota of something that needs to be infinite to actually solve the problem... and not only that, but he's perfectly OK with letting his kind's temporary solution go to waste.
In short, unless he's bullshitting Madoka entirely, (Which is possible but would go against his modus operandi of omitting or distorting the truth instead of outright lying.) the whole Puella Magi > Witch cycle is a patch at best. It also seems a little off how the explanation for this incredible energy potential is... emotional energy. Emotions don't have energy unless you mean metaphorically, which I don't think is the case here. So the only other explanation is that emotions do in fact generate energy... in a magical way.
If they wanted to go with the cop out of meshing sci-fi with fantasy, a more plausible explanation for Kyubei's motives would be that his race is experimenting with the magic human girls can tap into, attempting to produce a stable and infinite energy source. Witches would then be just unfortunate side-effects of their tampering, not the desired end product. This would also put extra emphasis on Madoka: she's special enough that if she possessed the potential for infinite energy generation, it wouldn't feel out of place.
Now, I know I come off a little negative, but trust me, I like this show a lot. It's like Nanoha, only actually good.
Pretty great series. Definitely this season's second best.
I do have some qualms with it though. (Don't click the spoiler unless you've watched it up to episode 10.)
Homura being a time traveler was my second guess when the character was introduced. My first was that she had used her wish to break Madoka's contract and in the process it wiped her memory clean. It seemed a little too predictable even before the "big reveal" in episode 9.
Mami's death was a great development, and the catalyst for the series' quick descent into grimdarkness, so I can definitely forgive the over-foreshadowing in episode 3. I do question why exactly Homura let her trap her in the first place, and why she seemed so surprised that Mami had gotten killed... especially because it's something she has seen happen several times across every timeline.
Sayaka's fall from grace was well done, but the initial point of her downfall felt forced. I'm not sure I can relate to her reaction to the soul gem information. Here she has a body that is functionally identical to a normal human body... in fact, it is a normal human body, only its soul is severed from it physically but still linked exclusively to it. Yes, the idea of having something so intimate being tampered with is understandably nauseating... and yet, the end result is for all intents and purposes is that she's still the exact same person, but segregated into a bodily vessel and what amounts to a phylactery housing her conscience.
And finally, last but not least... Kyubei. Love the character. Hated the explanation for his mission.
His race is trying to prevent the heat death of the universe. There are two ways of doing this: creating an infinite source of energy or outright finding a way to reverse entropy itself. Harvesting the Witches' power can be used to stave off the inevitable, but it's not enough and never will be enough, as it's bound to eventually dissipate like any other finite energy source. And yet, he seems fine with letting Earth be destroyed in one of the timelines, since he allegedly had met his "quota". So, he has a finite quota of something that needs to be infinite to actually solve the problem... and not only that, but he's perfectly OK with letting his kind's temporary solution go to waste.
In short, unless he's bullshitting Madoka entirely, (Which is possible but would go against his modus operandi of omitting or distorting the truth instead of outright lying.) the whole Puella Magi > Witch cycle is a patch at best. It also seems a little off how the explanation for this incredible energy potential is... emotional energy. Emotions don't have energy unless you mean metaphorically, which I don't think is the case here. So the only other explanation is that emotions do in fact generate energy... in a magical way.
If they wanted to go with the cop out of meshing sci-fi with fantasy, a more plausible explanation for Kyubei's motives would be that his race is experimenting with the magic human girls can tap into, attempting to produce a stable and infinite energy source. Witches would then be just unfortunate side-effects of their tampering, not the desired end product. This would also put extra emphasis on Madoka: she's special enough that if she possessed the potential for infinite energy generation, it wouldn't feel out of place.
Now, I know I come off a little negative, but trust me, I like this show a lot. It's like Nanoha, only actually good.
Nanoha is awesome, you heathen.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Kyubey's explanation of entropy is wrong. I'm sure energy is lost when it changes form, but only as unusable waste energy. Kyubey seems to be under the impression that energy is being destroyed. (Unless that's a translation error). Maybe the solution that will save everyone is to teach Kyubey basic science.
Or, and this is wild conjecture, the show takes place in a universe in which the laws of physics are wildly different. Energy can be destroyed through entropy and created by teenage girls. Kyubey told Madoka that she'll be insanely powerful once she makes her wish. Godlike, even. At one point, he said she'd be able to change the laws of physics.
What if Madoka does just that? It would be awesome if the show ended on Madoka creating the laws of thermodynamics, thereby creating a world in which witches do not exist and rooms are normal sized. God, this show has huge rooms. My entire house could fit inside one of those hospital rooms.
Bakemonogatari is filled with weird shit. I thought those word thingies were just part of the general zaniness. I guess I was wrong.
I'd say about half of those are intentional. The other half have been replaced by actual animation in the BD release (like, for instance, episode 10).
Anyway, it's not just Bakemonogatari. They've had a bunch of other shows where they clearly had problems finishing an episode on time for broadcast. I think they've gotten better at finishing stuff over the last year though.
edit: and it appears that they're still not really on top of this finishing episodes thing, because in episode 10, there is a very interesting addition in the Nico Nico Douga broadcast.
edit: and it appears that they're still not really on top of this finishing episodes thing, because in episode 10, there is a very interesting addition in the Nico Nico Douga broadcast.
So my girlfriend and I were discussing what to watch at dinner the other week and she goes "there's this magical girl anime I want to watch". And since she tends to choose interesting shows and avoids generic pap I was all sure.
And now we are all geeking over grimdark shit and how much this show has been taking us for a ride.
I love it when you discover nice surprises like this.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Okay, seriously, you guys are reading too much into this stuff (or I'm just naive). For any mods reading this, the two things that these people are talking about are only featured in the opening sequence, which has not been linked in this thread.
Either way, this thread is not about that kind of thing. It's about discussing the plot of the show, and I'd appreciate it if you don't ruin it for everyone.
Posts
That brings up another question: When Homura travels back in time, does the previous timeline go on without her as an alternate universe, or is it nullified and replaced with the newest timeline?
I don't know if the image in the OP is still the original, but what's there as of now is totally fine. Generic pics of teen girls in skirts isn't going to be a problem; it's clearly not meant to be sexual.
Ahahahahahahah yesssss
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Also this is probably gonna be the best anime of 2011.
I see. It was worth it.
My one niggle is that they seem to have gone for what I presume is a literal translation to "magical girl", which is a pretty awful one.
Best anime since Cowboy Bebop.
Or at least this is what I hope because honestly I don't know if I can take much more sadness and death from this series.
I figure with the way Madoka has been slowly introduced into what a a Puella is, that the key will be what her wish is. I'm thinking some sort of Meta wish that will disrupt the entire system of energy collection.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-"
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
That would be an interesting ending; Madoka saves all her friends and gets rid of the threat of Witches, but dooms the universe to heat death. Which basically means that people get to enjoy the universe for the relatively short time it's around, as opposed to perpetually suffering to delay heat death.
For the absolute best ending we'd need the system of Witches and Puella Magi to be discontinued, the fallen Puella Magi to be resurrected, and the threat of the heat death of the universe to be solved outside of Kyubey's system. How the heck could all those pieces fall into place?
The only thing I can think of would be for Madoka to realize her power and cause a deus ex machina which solves all these problems. And I don't think such an ending would go over very well.
She's taking things back with her. Knowledge of the future obviously, but other things too - Madoka sometimes has flashes of memory, and she's stronger and stronger in each iteration.
So is doing this eating up energy from the universes she goes to or the one's she's coming from? I can see a happy-ish ending where Homura just rips all the energy from one failed universe to power a rainbow and unicorns happy one.
Or we'll just get "Fuck You Kyubey" in wish form and call it a day.
Also, it just occurred to me that we have no idea what Madoka wished for in the timelines in which she became a Puella Magi. I believe it has been stated earlier that a Puella Magi's power is related to her wish. Maybe in the timelines in which Madoka was weaker she just made some kind of throw-away wish just so she could fulfill the requirement and become a Puella Magi?
...That's why they're spoilers.
FF14: ARR
Sure thing.
Madoka not airing this week. Writer Gen Urobuchi says it's ok since it gives SHAFT more time to work more on the animation.
First thought: FUUUUUUUUUUCK.
Second thought: Wait, they don't finish animating the episodes until the day they are supposed to air? Really?
SHAFT frequently finishes episodes of shows right before they air, iirc.
Well that sounds nerve wracking.
Thanks, by the way, for this thread. I haven't been following anime since the demise of the anime thread, and I wasn't aware this show existed. I thought I had wasted my precious time and bandwidth after watching the first two and a half episodes. But those final few minutes of episode three. Holy shit...
Not that the quality was ever really bad. The first two episodes were just too slow and too saccharine. However, everything from episode four has been a roller-coaster.
1. The girl dies in battle.
2. She turns into a witch when she fails to gather enough grief seeds.
To prevent 2 from happening, it's in her best interest to
A. Allow familiars to kill humans and become witches before harvesting them
B. Kill other Puella Magi to limit the number of rivals
C. Stockpile grief seeds for future use, which has the added benefit of
D Turning rival Puella Magi into witches, by starving them of grief seeds.
This system makes it much easier for contractors to survive if they have no conscience.
However, once in a while Walpuris Night happens. There's no way a single Puella Magi could handle it alone, requiring any clever sociopath to make allies among the sheep.
Am I correct in my analysis?
I do have some qualms with it though. (Don't click the spoiler unless you've watched it up to episode 10.)
Mami's death was a great development, and the catalyst for the series' quick descent into grimdarkness, so I can definitely forgive the over-foreshadowing in episode 3. I do question why exactly Homura let her trap her in the first place, and why she seemed so surprised that Mami had gotten killed... especially because it's something she has seen happen several times across every timeline.
Sayaka's fall from grace was well done, but the initial point of her downfall felt forced. I'm not sure I can relate to her reaction to the soul gem information. Here she has a body that is functionally identical to a normal human body... in fact, it is a normal human body, only its soul is severed from it physically but still linked exclusively to it. Yes, the idea of having something so intimate being tampered with is understandably nauseating... and yet, the end result is for all intents and purposes is that she's still the exact same person, but segregated into a bodily vessel and what amounts to a phylactery housing her conscience.
And finally, last but not least... Kyubei. Love the character. Hated the explanation for his mission.
His race is trying to prevent the heat death of the universe. There are two ways of doing this: creating an infinite source of energy or outright finding a way to reverse entropy itself. Harvesting the Witches' power can be used to stave off the inevitable, but it's not enough and never will be enough, as it's bound to eventually dissipate like any other finite energy source. And yet, he seems fine with letting Earth be destroyed in one of the timelines, since he allegedly had met his "quota". So, he has a finite quota of something that needs to be infinite to actually solve the problem... and not only that, but he's perfectly OK with letting his kind's temporary solution go to waste.
In short, unless he's bullshitting Madoka entirely, (Which is possible but would go against his modus operandi of omitting or distorting the truth instead of outright lying.) the whole Puella Magi > Witch cycle is a patch at best. It also seems a little off how the explanation for this incredible energy potential is... emotional energy. Emotions don't have energy unless you mean metaphorically, which I don't think is the case here. So the only other explanation is that emotions do in fact generate energy... in a magical way.
If they wanted to go with the cop out of meshing sci-fi with fantasy, a more plausible explanation for Kyubei's motives would be that his race is experimenting with the magic human girls can tap into, attempting to produce a stable and infinite energy source. Witches would then be just unfortunate side-effects of their tampering, not the desired end product. This would also put extra emphasis on Madoka: she's special enough that if she possessed the potential for infinite energy generation, it wouldn't feel out of place.
Now, I know I come off a little negative, but trust me, I like this show a lot. It's like Nanoha, only actually good.
Nanoha is awesome, you heathen.
Or, and this is wild conjecture, the show takes place in a universe in which the laws of physics are wildly different. Energy can be destroyed through entropy and created by teenage girls. Kyubey told Madoka that she'll be insanely powerful once she makes her wish. Godlike, even. At one point, he said she'd be able to change the laws of physics.
What if Madoka does just that? It would be awesome if the show ended on Madoka creating the laws of thermodynamics, thereby creating a world in which witches do not exist and rooms are normal sized. God, this show has huge rooms. My entire house could fit inside one of those hospital rooms.
Anyway, it's not just Bakemonogatari. They've had a bunch of other shows where they clearly had problems finishing an episode on time for broadcast. I think they've gotten better at finishing stuff over the last year though.
edit: and it appears that they're still not really on top of this finishing episodes thing, because in episode 10, there is a very interesting addition in the Nico Nico Douga broadcast.
Oh shit. So that thing at the end of the ED might be
Real? Have I missed something?
So my girlfriend and I were discussing what to watch at dinner the other week and she goes "there's this magical girl anime I want to watch". And since she tends to choose interesting shows and avoids generic pap I was all sure.
And now we are all geeking over grimdark shit and how much this show has been taking us for a ride.
I love it when you discover nice surprises like this.
Is it really, or is this a fan-made thing?
I'm thinking it's probably a fan-made thing.
FF14: ARR
Huh? I don't want to get this thread locked, so let's please not talk about this alleged shot.
You mean the one hidden by 80 layers of billowing lace and linen?
I mean, if you're going to complain about fanservice in the OP, complain about the boob to boob pressing between
This is so good.
This. This here.
All the transformation sequences are kind of awkward in a fanservice kind of way, but Madoka's is pretty uncomfortable to watch.
FF14: ARR
Either way, this thread is not about that kind of thing. It's about discussing the plot of the show, and I'd appreciate it if you don't ruin it for everyone.