MMA XIV: LET'S GET IT ON
Mixed Martial Arts?
[It's] a bunch of shaved apes strutting around. Either they're normal people who decided they like punching people more than working at a desk, or they're dumb people that realized they can just punch people.
Or for a more accurate summary..
Mixed martial arts (MMA) is a full contact combat sport that allows a wide variety of fighting techniques and skills, from a mixture of martial arts traditions and non-traditions, to be used in competitions. The rules allow the use of both striking as well as grappling techniques, both while standing and on the ground. Such competitions allow martial artists of different backgrounds to compete.
MMA has had a huge increase in popularity over the last few years partly because of the UFC and it’s reality show The Ultimate Fighter (Sometimes abbreviated TUF). However MMA does not equal UFC. While all UFC fights are MMA, not all MMA Fights are in the UFC. The UFC is the big dog, but there are other organizations out there, like Strikeforce, Bellator Fighting Championship and Dream.
Upcoming Events- April 09, 2011 - Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Daley
- April 09, 2011 - Bellator 40
- April 30, 2011 - UFC 129
- May 07m, 2011 - Bellator 43
- May 28, 2011 - UFC 130
- June 04, 2011 - The Ultimate Fighter 13 Finale
- June 11, 2011 - UFC 131
- June 26, 2011 - UFC on Versus 4
- July 02, 2011 - UFC 132
Current Champs? We got that.UFC
- Heavyweight: Cain Velasquez
- Light Heavyweight: Jon Jones
- Middleweight: Anderson Silva
- Welterweight: Georges St. Pierre
- Lightweight: Frankie Edgar
- Featherweight: Jose Aldo
- Bantamweight: Dominick Cruz
Strikeforce
- Heavyweight: Alistair Overeem
- Light Heavyweight: Dan Henderson
- Middleweight: Ronaldo Souza
- Welterweight: Nick Diaz
- Lightweight: Gilbert Melendez
MMA FAQ cribbed from previous OPs
I just want to see like a ninja guy fight a sumo wrestler. Oh oh! How about like a Kung Fu guy take on some old dude who does Tai Chi? (Fighting Styles) Well, this could happen, I guess, but most likely it won’t. Firstly, MMA matches are separated into weight divisions
• Flyweight: under 126 lb (57 kg)
• Bantamweight: 126 to 135 lb (57 to 61 kg)
• Featherweight: 136 to 145 lb (62 to 66 kg)
• Lightweight: 146 to 155 lb (66 to 70 kg)
• Welterweight: 156 to 170 lb (71 to 77 kg)
• Middleweight: 171 to 185 lb (78 to 84 kg)
• Light Heavyweight: 186 to 205 lb (84 to 93 kg)
• Heavyweight: 206 to 265 lb (93 to 120 kg).
• Super Heavyweight: above 265 lb (120 kg).
That’s why you can’t have Brock Lesnar (current undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion of the world) destroy UFC welterweight (and almost universally despised asshole) Josh Koscheck. Or even have a huge sumo dude against some old Tai Chi guy.
Next, while you can fight with any style you want, there are a number of styles that have been proven over the years to work really well. Here are some examples:
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is something almost every single MMA fighter trains in to some extent (Except, perhaps, James Toney) it has been a dominate strategy ever since UFC 1 and has greatly increased in popularity as a martial art due to MMA
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (Abbreviated BJJ) is a martial art, combat sport and a self-defense system that focuses on grappling and especially ground fighting. The art was derived from the Japanese martial art of Kodokan judo in the early 20th century, which was itself developed from a number of schools (or Ryu) of Japanese jujutsu in the 19th century.
It teaches that a smaller, weaker person can successfully defend against a bigger, stronger assailant by using leverage and proper technique—most notably by applying joint-locks and chokeholds to defeat the other person. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu can be trained for sport grappling tournaments (gi and no-gi) and mixed martial arts (MMA) competition or self-defense. Sparring (commonly referred to as 'rolling') and live drilling play a major role in training, and a premium is placed on performance, especially in competition.
Muay Thai: The national sport of Thailand, Muay Thai is a very popular technique in MMA due to the fact it trains fighters to not only use their hands and feet, but also their elbows and knees which can create devastating strikes to their opponents.
Muay Thai is a hard martial art from Thailand. It is similar to other Indochinese styles of kickboxing, namely pradal serey from Cambodia, tomoi from Malaysia, lethwei from Myanmar and Muay Lao from Laos. Descended from muay boran, Muay Thai is Thailand's national sport
The word muay derives from the Sanskrit mavya and Thai comes from the word Tai. Muay Thai is referred to as the "Art of Eight Limbs" or the "Science Of Eight Limbs" because it makes use of punches, kicks, elbows and knee strikes, thus using eight "points of contact", as opposed to "two points" (fists) in Western boxing and "four points" (hands and feet) used in sport-oriented martial arts. A practitioner of Muay Thai is known as a nak muay. Western practitioners are sometimes called nak muay farang meaning foreign boxer.
Wrestling (Freestyle and Greco-Roman) is another popular discipline for Mixed Martial Artists. The ability to take your opponent to the ground and while on the ground control him is incredibly powerful. While on the ground wrestling experts will either Ground and Pound (Abbreviated GnP, which simply means hitting their opponent while they are in a dominate position on the ground) their opponents, or attempt to make their opponent submit using any number of chokes and other submissions
However in the end you can fight however you want, if you want to Crain kick your way to MMA immortality, go for it. In the end, the only thing that matters is victory.
Wait what? Brazilian Jew Whatsu? More Ties? I don’t care about your fashion statements, I just want to see some sweet moves! You know like Hurricane kicks and Spinning Piledrivers! (MMA Moves)
Well not to worry, my eager friend, there are indeed some ‘sweet moves’ to be had in the world of Mixed Martial Arts. You know cool shit like:
Superman Punches:
A superman punch, cobra punch or diving punch is a technique used in Muay Thai, full contact karate and mixed martial arts fighting. The technique involves bringing the rear leg forward to feign a kick, then snapping the leg back while throwing a cross, resulting in greater power behind the punch
Roundhouse kicks:
A roundhouse kick (also known as turning kick but often confused with the round kick) is a kick in which the attacker swings his leg around in a semicircular motion, striking with the front of the leg or foot.[1] This type of kick is utilized in many different martial arts and is popular in both non-contact and full-contact martial arts competitions. The kick has many variations based on stance, leg movement, striking surface, and the height of the kick.
Guillotine Chokes:
The Guillotine choke is a chokehold in martial arts applied from in front of the opponent. The choke involves using the arms to encircle the opponent's neck in a fashion similar to a guillotine. The technique is either a type of tracheal compression restraint (wind choke) that prevents air flow to the lungs, or a blood choke depending on how it is applied. When executed from the ground, the person applying it will try to control the opponent by the hips, for instance using a closed guard. This is done to prevent the opponent from escaping the hold, and to be able to apply additional pressure by extending the hips.
Rear Naked Chokes:
The Rear naked choke (RNC) is a chokehold in martial arts applied from an opponent's back. Depending on the context, the term may refer to one of two variations of the technique, either arm can be used to apply the choke in both cases. The term rear naked choke likely originated from the technique in Jujutsu and Judo known as the "Hadaka Jime", or "Naked Strangle." The word "naked" in this context suggests that, unlike other strangulation techniques found in Jujutsu/Judo, this hold does not require the use of a keikogi ("gi") or training uniform.
There are about a billion different ways to attack an opponent in MMA, this is just a small sampling, but not to worry. There are almost limitless ‘sweet moves’
Including this one, thanks facetious
Tiger Knee
And don't forget these (Thanks BubbaT)
Cro Cop's LHK (against the immovable object that is Mark Hunt's rock head)UberkneeRyo Chonan's flying leg scissors heel hook
Toby Imada's inverted triangle chokeRandleplex
Mark Hunt's atomic butt drop
How about we just post a ton of links of incredibly awesome and sweet moves right here?
POWERBOMB!
Ok, now you’re talking my language! One of those moves had naked RIGHT IN THE TITLE. That’s awesome! These fights must be no holds barred right? You know like that awesome Hulk Hogan Movie… No Holds Barred (MMA Rules)
Ok slow down a minute, Mixed Martial Arts fights do have SOME rules to make sure this doesn’t become the Ball Punching Olympics (like it used to be back in the early days of the UFC). A Unified Set of rules has (kind of universally) been adopted.
Some organizations have different rules than others. Some you can’t use your elbows. Some you can perform a “Soccer Kick” (Kicking the head of a downed opponent) but the Unified Rules are as close as we have to the ‘rules’ of MMA.
Ok so now I know the basics I guess, you know with the Muay Jitsu and the Superman Kicks. Where can I get some additional info? (Outside Resources)
Thread Rules
Fight results are not spoilered. If you don't want to know how a fight ended until you've had a chance to see it, don't read this thread. We'll refrain from spoilering in the thread title until at least the second day after the fight has occurred.
Participate! We want to hear what you have to say about MMA. We want you to take part in the Penny Arcade Fight Club. We want your fight analysis. And most importantly, we want your hilariously photoshopped pictures of MMA fighters.
Don't be a dick. This goes for everyone. This thread is for the polite discussion of MMA.
Absolutely no puns.
Thanks to everyone that's contributed to this OP: ChillyWilly, doug_grammar, MetalJared, B:L, etc.
Penny Arcade Fight Club (PAFC)
PAFC is a friendly competition we run amongst ourselves. Individuals choose who they think is going to win each fight at each event, and how each fight will end. We put our picks up against eachother to see who's better at MMA predictions. The format is a tournament bracket- specifics depend on how many people are interested in participating. Starting matchups are made based on previous rankings, and we keep track of stats.
Take a look at the PAFC Round 2 post for a rundown of how it works. Watch the second post of this thread for PAFC Round 3 updates if you're interested in taking part! It's open to everyone, and your participation is encouraged!
PAFCR Champions
- PAFCR1: facetious
- PAFCR2: Spectrum
- PAFCR3: Spectrum
- PAFCR4: Inquisitor77
Our reigning (PAFCR5) champion is
Inquisitor77. Think you've got what it takes to unseat the champ?
Got it? Then let's party.
Posts
A MayGodHaveMercy production in conjunction with Adytum Entertainment and Penny-Arcade
Final Standings!
Record Points
01. Inquisitor77 / Comes_The_Inquisitor-- (4-0)
02. ChillyWilly
(6-5)
03. Spectrum
(12-1)
04. doug_grammar / chokehead
(2-6)
05. facetious / Chagrin
(10-4)
06. Snarfmaster
(6-5)
07. moleface
(5-6)
08. adytum
(7-8)
09. Raoulduke20 / BongRipsPalin
(6-4) (206)
10. fmz65 / SensAZNal
(5-4) (195)
11. Star
(4-5) (163)
12. Peter Ebel / PeteRebel
(4-4) (149)
13. SweeneyTom
(3-6) (122)
14. MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy-XXVI
(3-6) (86)
15. Metal Jared / metaljared
(5-5) (81)
16. mojojoeo
(0-2) (68)
17. Xrdd
(4-2)
18. B-L / B:L
(5-4)
19. TehSpectre
(5-3)
20. A Half Eaten Oreo / half_eaten_oreo--- (10-6)
Contenders
02 Metal Jared / metaljared
03 Sweeney Tom / SweeneyTom
04 TehSpectre / x
05 Star / x
06 doug_grammar / chokehead
07 fmz65 / SensAZNal
08 Spectrum / x
09 mojojoeo / x
10 Inquisitor77 / ?
11 Xrdd / x
12 MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy-XXVI
13 Raoulduke20 / BongRipsPalin
14 B:L / x
15 A Half Eaten Oreo / half_eaten_oreo
16 ChillyWilly / x
17 facetious / Chagrin
18 Peter Ebel / PeteRebel
19 Snarfmaster / x
20 moleface / x
Rules
1) Only stated events are counted toward the bout results (Please read the bout listing below carefully! If you have ANY questions about how to make your picks, please ask in the thread)
2) Only MMAplayground results are counted. Please register an account and then post in the thread or message Zzulu with your mmaplayground information in order to be added to the PAFC team. (Don't forget to make your picks!)
3) In the case of a tie on points, fantasy wager amounts on mmaplayground.com will be taken into account. In case of a tie on fantasy wager amounts, cumulative tournament points will be considered. In case of a tie or inability to assess cumulative tournament points, I'll flip a coin and you'll deal with it
Structure
There are three brackets.
The Winners Bracket is the main bracket, made up of the top 16 contenders from PAFC Round 4 Bout 1. If you lose in the winners bracket in bouts 2 or 3, you're dropped into..
The Losers Bracket is the secondary bracket, where the losers of bouts 2 and 3 will compete for 5th and 6th place. Prestigious!
The Elimination Bracket is for those 4 poor individuals eliminated in bout 1. It will span bouts 3 and 4, and has a consolation bracket for last place.
Bouts
PAFCR4 will be composed of 6 bouts.
- Will be a free-for-all among the 20 contenders
- Top 16 contenders will be entered into the winners bracket based on their points total from the bout
- Bottom 4 contenders will be entered into the elimination bracket
- Brackets will be published shortly after the bout
Bout 2 will be on 03/03/2011 during UFC on Versus 3
- Winners brackets will be updated
- Losers bracket will be created with the losers from the winners bracket
Bout 3 will be on 03/05/2011 during StrikForce : Hendo vs Feijao & Bellator 35 (Secondary League Combo Card)
- Winners, losers, and elimination brackets will be updated
- Losers from the winners bracket will be updated in the losers bracket
Bout 4 will be on 03/19/2011 during UFC 128
- Winners, losers, and elimination brackets will be updated
- The losers from the winners bracket will stay on the winners bracket, competing for 3rd & 4th place
- This will be the final bout for the elimination bracket, and the "winner" will be announced :P
Bout 5 will be on 03/26/11 during UFC Fight Night 24
- Losers brackets will be updated
Bout 6 will be on 04/30/2011 during UFC 129
- The winners and losers brackets will be updated
- The overall winners- as well as the total standings- will be announced shortly thereafter
Everyone is guaranteed 3 bouts at some level.
Bout 1 Results
72 1 1 moleface
56 2 2 ChillyWily
53 3 3 Star
49 4 4 Snarfmaster
49 4 5 Mercy-XXVI
47 6 6 Spectrum $300
47 6 7 metaljared $240
47 6 8 chokehead $235
46 9 9 BongRipsPalin
43 10 10 PeteRebel
42 11 11 adytum $1,131
42 11 12 Comes_the_Inquisitor $230
40 13 13 SensAZNal
39 14 14 mojojoeo
38 15 15 SweeneyTom
36 16 16 Chagrin
33 17 17 Xrdd $646
33 17 118 TehSpectre $80
27 19 19 B-L
24 20 20 half_eaten_oreo
Bout 2 Results
Winners Bracket
moleface
(61) (2-4) vs. facetious / Chagrin
(35) (6-3)
doug_grammar / chokehead
(58) (0-4) vs. Raoulduke20 / BongRipsPalin
(36) (5-2)
Snarfmaster
(53) (3-3) vs. fmz65 / SensAZNal
(67) (4-2)
MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy-XXVI
(37) (3-4) vs. Inquisitor77 / Comes_The_Inquisitor-- (62) (0-0)
Star
(40) (3-3) vs. mojojoeo
(29) (0-0)
Spectrum
(68) (9-0) vs. adytum
(56) (5-5)
ChillyWilly
(76) (3-4) vs. SweeneyTom
(47) (3-4)
Metal Jared / metaljared
(27) (5-3) vs. Peter Ebel / PeteRebel
(34) (3-2)
Bout 3 Results
Winners Bracket
moleface
(:() (3-4) vs. doug_grammar / chokehead
(51) (1-4)
fmz65 / SensAZNal
(26) (5-2) vs. Inquisitor77 / Comes_The_Inquisitor-- (47) (1-0)
Star
(26) (4-3) vs. Spectrum
(35) (10-0)
ChillyWilly
(31) (4-4) vs. Peter Ebel / PeteRebel
(16) (4-2)
Losers Bracket
adytum
(45) (5-6) vs. Metal Jared / metaljared
(07) (5-4)
Snarfmaster
(29) (3-4) vs. mojojoeo
(:() (0-1)
SweeneyTom
(37) (3-5) vs. facetious / Chagrin
(49) (6-4)
MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy-XXVI
(:() (3-5) vs. Raoulduke20 / BongRipsPalin
(72) (5-3)
Elimination Bracket
Xrdd
(33) (2-2) vs. A Half Eaten Oreo / half_eaten_oreo-- (17) (10-4)
TehSpectre
(24) (4-2) vs. B-L / B:L
(60) (4-3)
Bout 4 Results
Winners Bracket
doug_grammar / chokehead
(65) (2-4) vs. Inquisitor77 / Comes_The_Inquisitor-- (70) (2-0)
Spectrum
(44) (11-0) vs. ChillyWilly
(69) (5-4)
Losers Bracket
Peter Ebel / PeteRebel
(56) (4-3) vs. adytum
(74) (6-6)
Star
(44) (4-4) vs. Snarfmaster
(74) (4-4)
fmz65 / SensAZNal
(62) (5-3) vs. facetious / Chagrin
(66) (7-4)
moleface
(63) (3-5) vs. Raoulduke20 / BongRipsPalin
(52) (6-3)
Elimination Bracket
Xrdd
(74) (3-2) vs. B-L / B:L
(55) (5-3)
A Half Eaten Oreo / half_eaten_oreo--- (:() (10-5) vs. TehSpectre
(68) (4-3)
Bout 5 Results
Losers Bracket
adytum
(49) (7-6) vs. Snarfmaster
(61) (5-4)
facetious / Chagrin
(64) (8-4) vs. moleface
(27) (4-5)
Bout 6 Results
Winners Bracket
Championship Match! (1st & 2nd Place)
Inquisitor77 / Comes_The_Inquisitor-- (70) (3-0) vs. ChillyWilly
(57) (6-4)
Runner-Up Match! (3rd & 4th Place)
doug_grammar / chokehead
(44) (2-5) vs. Spectrum
(69) (11-1)
Losers Bracket
Redemption Match! (5th & 6th Place)
Snarfmaster
(10) (6-4) vs. facetious / Chagrin
(78) (9-4)
Consolation Match! (7th & 8th Place)
adytum
(41) (7-7) vs. moleface
(54) (4-6)
Brackets
The Winners Bracket
http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=389642
Record Points
The Losers Bracket
http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=389642&tclass=Losers
Record Points
13. SweeneyTom
(3-6) (122)
14. MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy-XXVI
(3-6) (86)
15. Metal Jared / metaljared
(5-5) (81)
16. mojojoeo
(0-2) (68)
The Elimination Bracket
http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=389642&tclass=Elimination
Record Points
17.
18.
19.
20.
PAFCR3 Mega Post
PAFCR3 Final Standings!
Record Points
01. Spectrum
(9-0) (228)
02. Raoulduke20 / BongRipsPalin
(5-2) (387)
03. A Half Eaten Oreo / half_eaten_oreo
(10-4) (350)
04. Metal Jared
(5-3) (224)
05. fmz65 / SensAZNal
(4-2) (231)
06. facetious / Chagrin
(6-3) (206)
07. PeteRebel
(3-2) (217)
08. ChillyWilly
(3-4) (199)
09. adytum
(5-5) (252)
10. Xrdd
(2-2) (196)
11. Barbatus
(3-4) (173)
12. Star
(3-3) (123)
13. B:L
(4-3) (174)
14. SweeneyTom
(3-4) (158)
15. moleface
(2-4) (152)
16. TehSpectre
(4-2) (135)
17. Zzulu
(0-4) (154)
18. doug_grammar / chokehead
(0-4) (119)
19. Snarfmaster
(3-3) (111)
20. sportzboytjw
(2-4) (85)
21. Dangerbird
(1-2) (72)
22. Campy
(1-2) (66)
23. Peen / Tw1tch
(0-4) (59)
24. Brodo Faggins
(1-3) (38)
25. Organichu
(1-4) (80)
26. DasUberEdward / Edward
(0-2) (63)
27. MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy_XXVI
(3-4) (59)
PAFCR2 Mega Post
PAFCR2 Final Standings!
Record Points
01. Spectrum
(4-0)
02. Snarfmaster
(3-1)
03. B:L
(3-1)
04. Barbatus
(2-2)
05. facetious / Chagrin
(4-1)
06. MayGodHaveMercy / Mercy_XXVI
(3-2)
07. A Half Eaten Oreo / half_eaten_oreo--(3-2)
08. adytum
(2-3)
09. 815165
(1-2) (202)
10. Organichu
(1-2) (175)
11. SweeneyTom
(1-2) (142)
12. sportzboytjw
(1-2) (141)
13. moleface
(0-2) (137)
14. doug_grammar / chokehead
(0-2) (97)
15. Zzulu
(0-2) (95)
16. Peen / Tw1tch
(0-2) (86)
17. TehSpectre
(2-0)
18. Star
(1-1)
19. Metal Jared
(1-1)
20. ChillyWilly
(0-2)
Did anyone else think (DeMarques) Johnson was basically out on his feet for the entire second round after Amir landed that brutal series of knees and punches? The whole time I thought he looked like he could barely stand, and then he had that "slip" where he just seemed to semi-collapse for no reason.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Zombie twister gif
Alternate angle
And LMAO @ KZ saying he learned it by watching Eddie Bravo DVDs.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Sexyama made the cover of Maxim Korea:
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
PSN: SoulCrusherJared
"Somewhere, Eddie Bravo is smiling."
He trained hard. Worked on his timing and precision.
Came out, won the first round and looked fantastic! No one was going to doubt his unanimous decision this time!
Oh shit, why is Jung twisting my body arou-HURGHK
Jung/Garcia was great. It was fantastic to see Jung pull that submission out of nowhere when there were just a few seconds left. That must have really really hurt for Garcia to tap so fast near the end of the round.
Amir/Johnson was also fun, though you could see that Johnson was there on 2 weeks notice as he gassed pretty quickly, and Amir quickly capitalized on that.
Hardy/Rumble was dull. Hardy might get cut now, I guess? He does not seem to have an answer to wrestlers.
Rogerio/Davis was okay. It was mostly Davis failing to take Nog down and then succeeding suddenly. It was fairly active on the ground though so it was not particularly dull.
I missed all the facebook fights however. Were they any good?
thats cause he's high
No word so far but rumour is he gets one more shot, one of the losses being to GSP and all that.
I will always be a fan of Dan's win or lose but I am massively disappointed in him, all that talk and training about improving his Jits, training with Victor Estima, Bravo and Nelson and he can't submit AJ off his back even in the 3rd when AJ has been off for a year.
He has peaked too, if he can't beat AJ now guys like Kos will run through him. Shame, as I like the guy.
Hathaway I thought did better than some seem, having watched the fight again that was a clear 29-28 win for him and I think McKray having the LW champ in his corner / training him has brought his game on somewhat, it was closer than many thought but John did well imho, he almost took that foot home with him.
John is only 23, if he can improve his jits and striking a little I think he could go far.
That was me, I'm sorry Zombie! I think neck cranks are illegal in most grappling competitions, I thought they were illegal in MMA too.
All the FB fights were great except Madsen / Russow.
He looked a lot better with his striking and he didn't gas.
61 :x
I've always liked Russow, but his last fight was god-awful.
He knocked Todd "Steroids" Duffee out of the UFC, so it wasn't a total loss.
To be fair, GSP, a former WEC WW champ and a strong wrestler 2 weight classes above you, in which you only go hurt in one...it's not the worst 3 fight losing streak ever, not like he is losing to scrubs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVyA0IYVxXI&feature=player_embedded
It depends on what level of grappling you're at, usually. Pretty much everything is legal in MMA, though. Besides the obvious of "no small joint manipulation".
Also, any one else tremendously impressed by Phil Davis? Sure, people are unimpressed by his performance, but this was only his ninth fight against Rogerio, who undoubtedly has been working his TDD. Plus, the same thing had happened to Jon Jones. He looked phenomenal against Stephen Bonnar, but then seemed a bit lack luster for a little awhile, and then he was suddenly the next biggest thing. I see Phil Davis's career taking the same approach, but faster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_wrestling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Robinson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Riley
If MMA was about in 1900 we would be LnP on you and putting the crowd to sleep.
And MMA has always been around.
wrong american
this american
the real american