Thanks, for the advice guys, its appreciated. I never really used to be socially anxious it just sort of started happening as I got older. Spending a year working from home seems to have destroyed what social skills I had left. I recognize its a problem which is why I got a new job that required me to get my ass to the office every day but the recovery seems to be pretty slow going and it's really frustrating. I fully recognize when I'm being socially retarded and sometimes it feels like its a train wreck that I see coming but am powerless to stop.
N1tSt4lker you're right I worded that poorly. It's not just my lifestyle I'm concerned about it's her personal well being as well. I don't want to tell her I'm capable of doing something that I'm not and end up just dragging things out causing more hurt for both of us. The women I date tend to end up really attached to me really fast which is why I posted about my issues here instead of just saying that it was time for me to reactivate my profile.
That wording makes more sense with the taking time. Wanting to be sure this is a thing you are able to work on and do is something I can respect. I will say that sometimes social skills are a good deal about faking it 'til you make it. There are times when I don't feel social at all, but I'm in a position where I have to be. Sometimes it's just about putting on that "I love talking to strangers" persona until you actually do enjoy to whatever extent your personality allows meeting strangers. And actually recognizing the problem and taking steps to work on it is a major step. I think that if you are truly wanting to continue the path back into social comfort but aren't sure about how successful you will be over what period of time, you should explain that to her. Just be up front about how you realize it's an issue, how you are willing to work on a change, but you aren't exactly sure what that process will look like. I think that will help with the concerns.
So I just got back from my third date with lovely Gwyneth Paltrow, and I'm pretty sure I'm not single anymore...
We had a great little chat about the whole dating scene, where she admitted that she'd spent the whole time worrying that I wasn't going to like her, that I might actually be the one to turn her down and that she was too afraid to message me first in case I didn't respond. The lesson to learn is that, like grizzly bears, women are more scared of you than you are of them.
Also, we nearly killed a cat.
Sorry to hear that, I hate when dates don't finish the way I planned.
@dnaeric
Thank you, again. You have very good (and IMO very correct) advice about confidence. And you're quite correct that (as my profile says, heh)--not so confident here. (Also not so concise.)
The end of your post I think is great, and words to (try to) live by.
The remaining disagreement is mainly this: that's not my target audience. I don't _want_ to "get the cheerleader."* Or "The Ladies", as if that class has meaning. (Ladybrains: not all the same.)
Nerdy woman in bookstore reading Judith Butler? That's my target audience.
(Mentally and physically, at that.)
Do I want said type of person to like me, to find me attractive? Heck yes.
But I'm not going to be manipulating or mind-screwing. Apart from the ethics, I just don't think that would work for me in finding a friend-who-is-a-girl-and-wants-to-boink-me. Particularly since that's a heck of a lot of what feminism (and I as feminist, and potential-she as feminist) are fighting against.
I appreciate that worked for you, and worked for your target audience. And as the movie you cite is emblematic of, that's the target audience for a lot of nerds/geeks. It's just not mine.
Your points about confidence and presenting-awesomeness are not in the least audience dependent, though (well ok, a problem for a target audience which is looking for shy non-self-confident people of course) and again I thank you for that push!
*Also, Revenge of the Nerds is a hella-problematic movie.
I think you're going about this in the wrong way, Ned. You're supposed to start with the hot women then work your way down. Then go once you think you've hit the absolute bottom of your limit, go even further down.
You're starting at the bottom. I know you justify this as you like women who read books etc but that just strikes me as self-delusion.
You're probably ahead of the game, though. Hot women don't reply. Average-looking women don't reply. Below-average women...depends how below the average we're talking, I guess
But it's not even just about appearance. Complete morons don't reply. Honest to god women who must have mental disabilities don't reply. Just by looking at their writing. And I don't say this as a joke or to mock. These women must have serious mental deficiencies. They aren't replying.
Women with no jobs? They aren't replying either.
Women with kids? I never message them but they probably wouldn't reply either.
So with internet dating, it's a continual process of lowering your standards. Your previous standards might have been "only women with jobs" or "only women under 200 pounds" or "only women who don't use text speak" or "only women under 35". But once all such women have deemed you unworthy of their attention, you have to lower the bar. And then again and again until you're messaging morbidly obese unemployed women who haven't yet figured out how apostrophes work.
It quickly gets to the point where you're messaging these women who you're not even remotely interested in merely in an effort to get a response. And when even they don't reply, you start to think that perhaps internet dating isn't worth the effort (even the tiny bit of effort that it requires).
But if you're starting at the bottom and actually convincing yourself that you WANT these women, maybe you're on to something.
Personally, I think there has to be a better way. A way to go out with women who have jobs, aren't completely unattractive and are at least reasonably intelligent. Anyone meeting such women off the internet, congratulations. You're in the tiny minority. What's your secret? But for myself, I think I have look at offline avenues to get the ladies.
@dnaeric
Thank you, again. You have very good (and IMO very correct) advice about confidence. And you're quite correct that (as my profile says, heh)--not so confident here. (Also not so concise.)
The end of your post I think is great, and words to (try to) live by.
The remaining disagreement is mainly this: that's not my target audience. I don't _want_ to "get the cheerleader."* Or "The Ladies", as if that class has meaning. (Ladybrains: not all the same.)
Nerdy woman in bookstore reading Judith Butler? That's my target audience.
(Mentally and physically, at that.)
Do I want said type of person to like me, to find me attractive? Heck yes.
But I'm not going to be manipulating or mind-screwing. Apart from the ethics, I just don't think that would work for me in finding a friend-who-is-a-girl-and-wants-to-boink-me. Particularly since that's a heck of a lot of what feminism (and I as feminist, and potential-she as feminist) are fighting against.
I appreciate that worked for you, and worked for your target audience. And as the movie you cite is emblematic of, that's the target audience for a lot of nerds/geeks. It's just not mine.
Your points about confidence and presenting-awesomeness are not in the least audience dependent, though (well ok, a problem for a target audience which is looking for shy non-self-confident people of course) and again I thank you for that push!
*Also, Revenge of the Nerds is a hella-problematic movie.
You don't actually know anything about these women until you meet them. By being too aggressive and specific, you turn people away that don't know you or are misjudging you. Why would you do that?
Its not manipulation and this isn't even close to PUA garbage, this is about learning how to best present yourself to people. As a male doing online dating, you need to ramp up your efforts to stand out from the crowd of douchebags and jackassery.
Feminism isn't fighting against women being able to have sex with friends.
Your target audience is people. Don't be so fucking specific with your target audience; likes books, intelligent, athletic, crafty, nerdy, club chick, fasionista, fucking pick a few and shoot for the larger pool as a whole. Don't only shoot for what you think you actually really want. You don't actually know what you want until you meet someone and can say, "I don't wan this."
And you know what? Maybe that bookish feminist isn't primarily looking for a bookish femiman because she doesn't know what she wants (re: human condition). Guess who you just turned away by being so strongly that? Her. No one is going to read your profile and go "Fucking thank god, here he is." You want people to read your profile and say, "Wow, this guy seems pretty awesome/stable/neat/fun and I think I would enjoy his company."
So I just got back from my third date with lovely Gwyneth Paltrow, and I'm pretty sure I'm not single anymore...
We had a great little chat about the whole dating scene, where she admitted that she'd spent the whole time worrying that I wasn't going to like her, that I might actually be the one to turn her down and that she was too afraid to message me first in case I didn't respond. The lesson to learn is that, like grizzly bears, women are more scared of you than you are of them.
Also, we nearly killed a cat.
Sorry to hear that, I hate when dates don't finish the way I planned.
Well they're still at the beginning of their relationship. I'm sure they'll get better at it over time.
Thanks N1tst4lker, I didn’t see your message till today but she called me last night and we ended up talking about pretty much what you posted with her suggesting some ideas to help me like a code word for when I need to get the fuck away from people for a couple of minutes.
BadboyHido: maybe you should post your profile and some sample messages. Enough people in this thread are finding success that I doubt it’s a tiny minority and suspect you’re doing something wrong. Like any skill, online dating requires practice and sometimes some help from people with more experience. If someone like myself with extreme social anxiety can go on dates and get asked for more, anyone can.
Skoal Cat: 100% agree about the comment concerning not knowing anything about a person till you meet them. I met a surgeon, a woman that spent years fighting HIV in poor countries and now writes research papers on it and a research librarian. My current girlfriend likes boardgames and sings in several operas every year. These are all to me interesting and very cool things about these women and none of this was in any of their profiles.
Oh man, totally didn't explain how awesome this woman seems to be. I invited her to a Weird Al concert and she said, "That sounds awesome! I'd love to go! I haven't been to many concerts, the last one I went to was the Smothers Brothers."
The Smothers Brothers ladies and gentlemen, she has seen the Smothers Brothers in concert and is under 30 years old.
I got a reply back from one of the girls I messaged a week ago. She immediately gave me her number and invited me to text her.
This isn't really related to internet dating, but I think I also got it bad for a co-worker of mine. We've been spending a lot of time together lately and I think she's pretty awesome. I don't think she feels the same way about me though, and I don't want to ruin a friendship by saying something. It is kind of killing my interest in online dating at the moment, though. She's been on my mind for a week now and when I got said message earlier, I almost didn't care.
Online Info (Click Spoiler for More): |Xbox Live Tag: Omeks |PSN Tag:Omeks_R7 |Rock Band:Profile|DLC Collection
I got a reply back from one of the girls I messaged a week ago. She immediately gave me her number and invited me to text her.
This isn't really related to internet dating, but I think I also got it bad for a co-worker of mine. We've been spending a lot of time together lately and I think she's pretty awesome. I don't think she feels the same way about me though, and I don't want to ruin a friendship by saying something. It is kind of killing my interest in online dating at the moment, though. She's been on my mind for a week now and when I got said message earlier, I almost didn't care.
Tell me. Do you want to maintain your "friendship" because you generally like her as a friend.. or something else?
I got a reply back from one of the girls I messaged a week ago. She immediately gave me her number and invited me to text her.
This isn't really related to internet dating, but I think I also got it bad for a co-worker of mine. We've been spending a lot of time together lately and I think she's pretty awesome. I don't think she feels the same way about me though, and I don't want to ruin a friendship by saying something. It is kind of killing my interest in online dating at the moment, though. She's been on my mind for a week now and when I got said message earlier, I almost didn't care.
Tell me. Do you want to maintain your "friendship" because you generally like her as a friend.. or something else?
We've always been good friends, or at least since I started working there. We play video games and go out with other co-workers all the time, but in the last month and especially the last week we've been spending a lot more time together. In particular, she came all the way out to my friend's party last night, brought a big 12 pack of Fat Tire (quality beer), dressed fairly nice even though we're all outside and dressed for game watching, and seems really interested in becoming better friends with my friends.
However, I also consider her my best woman friend, and I don't want to risk messing that up if she doesn't feel the same way. I'm fully capable of moving on to another woman if she says no but I really don't want to hurt the friendship in the process. It's hard to tell if she's actually interested since she is the kind of girl who flirts with guys all the time but doesn't realize she's doing it, then goes on to ask me for flirting tips (when she actually tries to flirt she tells guys she wants to rape them...yeah). Everyone of my friends who have met her and seen us together think it's a no-brainer, but I don't know if she thinks the way she acts around me is normal and not suggestive. At the same time she usually tells me how she's going to go "man-hunting" which adds to the "I don't think she's into me" vibe.
It's worth noting I've always found her attractive, but she had a long-term boyfriend up until about a month ago. When they broke up I told myself I wouldn't do this, but after one drunken night at a bar where we made raunchy jokes (mostly about my junk) and took a ton of pictures with each other that look "coupl-ie" I broke down.
Online Info (Click Spoiler for More): |Xbox Live Tag: Omeks |PSN Tag:Omeks_R7 |Rock Band:Profile|DLC Collection
I got a reply back from one of the girls I messaged a week ago. She immediately gave me her number and invited me to text her.
This isn't really related to internet dating, but I think I also got it bad for a co-worker of mine. We've been spending a lot of time together lately and I think she's pretty awesome. I don't think she feels the same way about me though, and I don't want to ruin a friendship by saying something. It is kind of killing my interest in online dating at the moment, though. She's been on my mind for a week now and when I got said message earlier, I almost didn't care.
Tell me. Do you want to maintain your "friendship" because you generally like her as a friend.. or something else?
We've always been good friends, or at least since I started working there. We play video games and go out with other co-workers all the time, but in the last month and especially the last week we've been spending a lot more time together. In particular, she came all the way out to my friend's party last night, brought a big 12 pack of Fat Tire (quality beer), dressed fairly nice even though we're all outside and dressed for game watching, and seems really interested in becoming better friends with my friends.
However, I also consider her my best woman friend, and I don't want to risk messing that up if she doesn't feel the same way. I'm fully capable of moving on to another woman if she says no but I really don't want to hurt the friendship in the process. It's hard to tell if she's actually interested since she is the kind of girl who flirts with guys all the time but doesn't realize she's doing it, then goes on to ask me for flirting tips (when she actually tries to flirt she tells guys she wants to rape them...yeah). Everyone of my friends who have met her and seen us together think it's a no-brainer, but I don't know if she thinks the way she acts around me is normal and not suggestive. At the same time she usually tells me how she's going to go "man-hunting" which adds to the "I don't think she's into me" vibe.
It's worth noting I've always found her attractive, but she had a long-term boyfriend up until about a month ago. When they broke up I told myself I wouldn't do this, but after one drunken night at a bar where we made raunchy jokes (mostly about my junk) and took a ton of pictures with each other that look "coupl-ie" I broke down.
I think you need to man up and start pursuing her in a relationship. That's the only way you will know if it is for real or not. If it's not, no big deal, right?
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Friends don't want to fuck their friends. Tell her how you feel and if it doesn't work, let it go.
However, I also consider her my best woman friend, and I don't want to risk messing that up if she doesn't feel the same way.
Speaking as someone who spent far too long internally debating a similar situation, to the point where I missed the window of opportunity and retrospectively found out (via her in fact) that she did really like me. I advise you to take the chance. Our friendship recovered; if she's a true friend, yours will too.
However, I also consider her my best woman friend, and I don't want to risk messing that up if she doesn't feel the same way. I'm fully capable of moving on to another woman if she says no but I really don't want to hurt the friendship in the process. It's hard to tell if she's actually interested since she is the kind of girl who flirts with guys all the time but doesn't realize she's doing it, then goes on to ask me for flirting tips (when she actually tries to flirt she tells guys she wants to rape them...yeah). Everyone of my friends who have met her and seen us together think it's a no-brainer, but I don't know if she thinks the way she acts around me is normal and not suggestive. At the same time she usually tells me how she's going to go "man-hunting" which adds to the "I don't think she's into me" vibe.
1) Please, please, because she is your friend, tell her the "I want to rape you" shit is not funny.
2) Co-worker. Stay away. Hamburger rule.
Three lines of plaintext:
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replaced by JPEGs.
Do I want said type of person to like me, to find me attractive? Heck yes.
But I'm not going to be manipulating or mind-screwing. Apart from the ethics, I just don't think that would work for me in finding a friend-who-is-a-girl-and-wants-to-boink-me. Particularly since that's a heck of a lot of what feminism (and I as feminist, and potential-she as feminist) are fighting against.
I think you are really failing to understand the limited scope of your audience here.
Lets say that there are 100 women in your area that are on OKC and are in your age range.
Of those, 30% will be feminist, so down to 30 right off the bat.
Of those, half of them want someone athletic, so those are out, 15.
Of those 15, 5 have a problem with you being an Atheist, so they are done.
Of the 10 that are left, 5 got to the point where you said "Not a fan of movies" and couldn't grok you any longer.
So, out of my mythical 100, you're down to 5 before you have even sent a message. That isn't a very good start.
I don't know why you feel you have to limit yourself so much. I am in a happy marriage and my wife and I don't have very much in common at all. It was certainly no nerd/cheerleader thing, but it wasn't matchy/matchy. It is totally up to you, but if you're not having success getting them dates, I'm telling you I have a good idea why.
In your third picture, those sunglasses are way too big for you head. The last picture? You look like your head is way too small for your body. I'd dump both of them.
Oh, and get rid of...
1. "I want to clarify that I genuinely love these things (not ironic love), so I'm not a hipster (though what hipster would admit to being a hipster?). Though I am hip, so..."
2. "That's my day job, and I do not identify myself with it at all, but I felt like it's "what I'm doing" right now, so I should list it. Boring. Sorry. DON'T WRITE ME OFF YET THOUGH, I'M ALSO AN ARTIST OR SOME SHIT."
3. "I mean, shit, I love smart humor like Arrested Development as much as the NEXT person who discovered it after it ended, but that doesn't mean I'm all references and witty banter. I often make stupid puns, too. Don't hate me."
Picture with big-ass sunglasses gone. Replaced by a picture of me being bewildered by a tiny door. I'll get rid of #3 and modify #2, but I'm quite attached to #1. I feel it's somewhat indicative of how I think, hopefully getting across that I'm sincere about my interests, while still being disdainful of the classic idea of a hipster. I'm both passionate and hilariously intolerant (yet somehow inclusive). SO MUCH MEANING. (I'll get rid of it).
Your profile should not tell people how you think. How people think is scary. Knowing how you think doesn't make me more inclined to want to meet you, if anything its going to make me less. I know you aren't trying to attract me, but here is what I look for in a profile:
Are they positive, happy, or otherwise excited about life?
Do they seem sane and keep control of their life?
Do they seem like someone I would enjoy hanging out with?
Do I find them attractive? That's it.
If they are big into philosophical debates, that's cool. We can do that when we hang out, but I don't want to hear her thesis before meeting her. Profiles are not to be the perfect description of you, they are to be the best presentation of you to new potential mates.
I think the one person here in recent memory who posted about it said it was a bit of a bomb, but I would still go because it can still be a fun/interesting event. Great stories come from weird situations!
I went to a speed dating event 2 month ago. There is not much time to cover more than the basic "what do you do?/where do you live?/what kind of music do you like?" questions ... before you move on to the next in line. Since nothing came of it, I might do it again at some point ...
EDIT: That person was me, Skoal Cat. And yeah .. it was kind of a bomb. It was interesting, but none of the girls I marked for "seeing again" wanted to do the same ... so as far as success rates go, this was par for the course.
So I'm thinking of going to a local speed dating event tomorrow. Is this a terrible idea? Anyone have any experience with these?
I've been once. It wasn't terrible, but a bit of a downer when it was 7 guys to 4 girls. Try to find something other than work to talk about (unless you're really passionate about your job I guess), because 3-5 minutes will fly pretty quickly.
"I work for an IT Department. I just kind of sit on the internet all day most days, with some sprinkling of really stressful days when a switch or server explodes. Yea, it can be pretty boring sometimes." x 8
45 minutes later
"Aw, man. I didn't get any 'Would see again' I don't understand."
In other news. I put my profile as "Seeing someone" many months ago, despite the fact that I was not seeing someone. I was mostly inactive on the site aside from once or twice a week or 2 I'd get a couple messages from girls that did not interest me in the slightest. So instead of finding girls I was interested in I decided to mark myself as seeing someone and promptly forget about the website. I think it's about time to redo my profile and take some new pictures and see whats going on in my area.
So I'm thinking of going to a local speed dating event tomorrow. Is this a terrible idea? Anyone have any experience with these?
If you're going, think about the 5 most common questions. don't ask those.
The questions you ask are just as good as answers. As an example, if you asked "What do you think of the military ramp up in the Middle East?" it goes to say you're thinking about that line of stuff. If you ask "Who is your favorite duck?" it shows you have a good sense of humor.
And its clearly Darkwing. Fuck you if you don't think so.
It's worth noting I've always found her attractive, but she had a long-term boyfriend up until about a month ago. When they broke up I told myself I wouldn't do this, but after one drunken night at a bar where we made raunchy jokes (mostly about my junk) and took a ton of pictures with each other that look "coupl-ie" I broke down.
You should not shit where you eat. Should not do it. Absolutely never. Everytime it fails, bad things happen.
But everytime it works....
So fuck the advice, listen to your heart. If you dig this girl, which I know you do because seriously the way you talk about her I see little heart bubbles coming out of your cranium, you should just jump.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
edited October 2011
Well I have the joy of jumping back into dating. Time to poke about in sites looking for ladies who like video games in the dc area.
So I'm thinking of going to a local speed dating event tomorrow. Is this a terrible idea? Anyone have any experience with these?
If you're going, think about the 5 most common questions. don't ask those.
The questions you ask are just as good as answers. As an example, if you asked "What do you think of the military ramp up in the Middle East?" it goes to say you're thinking about that line of stuff. If you ask "Who is your favorite duck?" it shows you have a good sense of humor.
And its clearly Darkwing. Fuck you if you don't think so.
Is that OKCupid thing about "You are hot you'll now see hotter people" a real thing? It seems like something they'd send to everybody. Hey, come back and use the site, you'll get matched with hotter people now.
I'm just a couple notches above the elephant man and I got one of those once a long while back, so I think it's meaningless.
So confused. Third date tonight: we grabbed dinner and went to a concert. We were both a little tired from each having worked all day, but once the date started going, things seemed as great as the first two dates, and we both had a good time at the show.
Until the end: "I had a good time," quick hug, then she runs off like Cinderella. No kiss, or even a peck on the cheek... And she didn't really leave me an opportunity to give her one. Which is pretty much the same thing that happened on the last date, come to think of it.
Very cool girl, and I dig her. But if it wasn't for the fact that she keeps saying yes to dates, I'd assume she's just not attracted to me.
Am I overthinking? By the third date, should she be displaying some sort of overt sign of attraction here?
Are.. are you making your intentions clear? Like.. any "You look beautiful tonight"s or dive bombing her face with your mouth?
Or are you waiting for her to make a move or something? She may just think you wanted to hang out.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Picture with big-ass sunglasses gone. Replaced by a picture of me being bewildered by a tiny door. I'll get rid of #3 and modify #2, but I'm quite attached to #1. I feel it's somewhat indicative of how I think, hopefully getting across that I'm sincere about my interests, while still being disdainful of the classic idea of a hipster. I'm both passionate and hilariously intolerant (yet somehow inclusive). SO MUCH MEANING. (I'll get rid of it).
Do you know what is quite possibly the most boring and banal thing to talk about? Hipsters and your opinions on them or trying to explain how you're not one. Seriously, get rid of it.
Basically, erase any mention of "hipster". Also, by your pictures, it's glaringly obvious that you're not one, so it's not something you should be at all worried about.
Picture with big-ass sunglasses gone. Replaced by a picture of me being bewildered by a tiny door. I'll get rid of #3 and modify #2, but I'm quite attached to #1. I feel it's somewhat indicative of how I think, hopefully getting across that I'm sincere about my interests, while still being disdainful of the classic idea of a hipster. I'm both passionate and hilariously intolerant (yet somehow inclusive). SO MUCH MEANING. (I'll get rid of it).
Do you know what is quite possibly the most boring and banal thing to talk about? Hipsters and your opinions on them or trying to explain how you're not one. Seriously, get rid of it.
Basically, erase any mention of "hipster". Also, by your pictures, it's glaringly obvious that you're not one, so it's not something you should be at all worried about.
I'm not a rapist and I spend the vast majority of my profile assuring women that I am not one.
edit: Not sure I spelled that right. I do sabre fencing, not rapier fencing.
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That wording makes more sense with the taking time. Wanting to be sure this is a thing you are able to work on and do is something I can respect. I will say that sometimes social skills are a good deal about faking it 'til you make it. There are times when I don't feel social at all, but I'm in a position where I have to be. Sometimes it's just about putting on that "I love talking to strangers" persona until you actually do enjoy to whatever extent your personality allows meeting strangers. And actually recognizing the problem and taking steps to work on it is a major step. I think that if you are truly wanting to continue the path back into social comfort but aren't sure about how successful you will be over what period of time, you should explain that to her. Just be up front about how you realize it's an issue, how you are willing to work on a change, but you aren't exactly sure what that process will look like. I think that will help with the concerns.
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Sorry to hear that, I hate when dates don't finish the way I planned.
Thank you, again. You have very good (and IMO very correct) advice about confidence. And you're quite correct that (as my profile says, heh)--not so confident here. (Also not so concise.)
The end of your post I think is great, and words to (try to) live by.
The remaining disagreement is mainly this: that's not my target audience. I don't _want_ to "get the cheerleader."* Or "The Ladies", as if that class has meaning. (Ladybrains: not all the same.)
Nerdy woman in bookstore reading Judith Butler? That's my target audience.
(Mentally and physically, at that.)
Do I want said type of person to like me, to find me attractive? Heck yes.
But I'm not going to be manipulating or mind-screwing. Apart from the ethics, I just don't think that would work for me in finding a friend-who-is-a-girl-and-wants-to-boink-me. Particularly since that's a heck of a lot of what feminism (and I as feminist, and potential-she as feminist) are fighting against.
I appreciate that worked for you, and worked for your target audience. And as the movie you cite is emblematic of, that's the target audience for a lot of nerds/geeks. It's just not mine.
Your points about confidence and presenting-awesomeness are not in the least audience dependent, though (well ok, a problem for a target audience which is looking for shy non-self-confident people of course) and again I thank you for that push!
*Also, Revenge of the Nerds is a hella-problematic movie.
You're starting at the bottom. I know you justify this as you like women who read books etc but that just strikes me as self-delusion.
You're probably ahead of the game, though. Hot women don't reply. Average-looking women don't reply. Below-average women...depends how below the average we're talking, I guess
But it's not even just about appearance. Complete morons don't reply. Honest to god women who must have mental disabilities don't reply. Just by looking at their writing. And I don't say this as a joke or to mock. These women must have serious mental deficiencies. They aren't replying.
Women with no jobs? They aren't replying either.
Women with kids? I never message them but they probably wouldn't reply either.
So with internet dating, it's a continual process of lowering your standards. Your previous standards might have been "only women with jobs" or "only women under 200 pounds" or "only women who don't use text speak" or "only women under 35". But once all such women have deemed you unworthy of their attention, you have to lower the bar. And then again and again until you're messaging morbidly obese unemployed women who haven't yet figured out how apostrophes work.
It quickly gets to the point where you're messaging these women who you're not even remotely interested in merely in an effort to get a response. And when even they don't reply, you start to think that perhaps internet dating isn't worth the effort (even the tiny bit of effort that it requires).
But if you're starting at the bottom and actually convincing yourself that you WANT these women, maybe you're on to something.
Personally, I think there has to be a better way. A way to go out with women who have jobs, aren't completely unattractive and are at least reasonably intelligent. Anyone meeting such women off the internet, congratulations. You're in the tiny minority. What's your secret? But for myself, I think I have look at offline avenues to get the ladies.
You don't actually know anything about these women until you meet them. By being too aggressive and specific, you turn people away that don't know you or are misjudging you. Why would you do that?
Its not manipulation and this isn't even close to PUA garbage, this is about learning how to best present yourself to people. As a male doing online dating, you need to ramp up your efforts to stand out from the crowd of douchebags and jackassery.
Feminism isn't fighting against women being able to have sex with friends.
Your target audience is people. Don't be so fucking specific with your target audience; likes books, intelligent, athletic, crafty, nerdy, club chick, fasionista, fucking pick a few and shoot for the larger pool as a whole. Don't only shoot for what you think you actually really want. You don't actually know what you want until you meet someone and can say, "I don't wan this."
And you know what? Maybe that bookish feminist isn't primarily looking for a bookish femiman because she doesn't know what she wants (re: human condition). Guess who you just turned away by being so strongly that? Her. No one is going to read your profile and go "Fucking thank god, here he is." You want people to read your profile and say, "Wow, this guy seems pretty awesome/stable/neat/fun and I think I would enjoy his company."
Well they're still at the beginning of their relationship. I'm sure they'll get better at it over time.
BadboyHido: maybe you should post your profile and some sample messages. Enough people in this thread are finding success that I doubt it’s a tiny minority and suspect you’re doing something wrong. Like any skill, online dating requires practice and sometimes some help from people with more experience. If someone like myself with extreme social anxiety can go on dates and get asked for more, anyone can.
Skoal Cat: 100% agree about the comment concerning not knowing anything about a person till you meet them. I met a surgeon, a woman that spent years fighting HIV in poor countries and now writes research papers on it and a research librarian. My current girlfriend likes boardgames and sings in several operas every year. These are all to me interesting and very cool things about these women and none of this was in any of their profiles.
The Smothers Brothers ladies and gentlemen, she has seen the Smothers Brothers in concert and is under 30 years old.
be still my heart
This isn't really related to internet dating, but I think I also got it bad for a co-worker of mine. We've been spending a lot of time together lately and I think she's pretty awesome. I don't think she feels the same way about me though, and I don't want to ruin a friendship by saying something. It is kind of killing my interest in online dating at the moment, though. She's been on my mind for a week now and when I got said message earlier, I almost didn't care.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
Tell me. Do you want to maintain your "friendship" because you generally like her as a friend.. or something else?
We've always been good friends, or at least since I started working there. We play video games and go out with other co-workers all the time, but in the last month and especially the last week we've been spending a lot more time together. In particular, she came all the way out to my friend's party last night, brought a big 12 pack of Fat Tire (quality beer), dressed fairly nice even though we're all outside and dressed for game watching, and seems really interested in becoming better friends with my friends.
However, I also consider her my best woman friend, and I don't want to risk messing that up if she doesn't feel the same way. I'm fully capable of moving on to another woman if she says no but I really don't want to hurt the friendship in the process. It's hard to tell if she's actually interested since she is the kind of girl who flirts with guys all the time but doesn't realize she's doing it, then goes on to ask me for flirting tips (when she actually tries to flirt she tells guys she wants to rape them...yeah). Everyone of my friends who have met her and seen us together think it's a no-brainer, but I don't know if she thinks the way she acts around me is normal and not suggestive. At the same time she usually tells me how she's going to go "man-hunting" which adds to the "I don't think she's into me" vibe.
It's worth noting I've always found her attractive, but she had a long-term boyfriend up until about a month ago. When they broke up I told myself I wouldn't do this, but after one drunken night at a bar where we made raunchy jokes (mostly about my junk) and took a ton of pictures with each other that look "coupl-ie" I broke down.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
I think you need to man up and start pursuing her in a relationship. That's the only way you will know if it is for real or not. If it's not, no big deal, right?
Sounds like a winner.
Her probably sociopathic tendencies notwithstanding, these two things...
...mean that you should ask her out. IMHO.
Did you almost run one over in your car? 'Cause I saw a kitten almost get smooshed while trying to cross the street Saturday night.
Speaking as someone who spent far too long internally debating a similar situation, to the point where I missed the window of opportunity and retrospectively found out (via her in fact) that she did really like me. I advise you to take the chance. Our friendship recovered; if she's a true friend, yours will too.
1) Please, please, because she is your friend, tell her the "I want to rape you" shit is not funny.
2) Co-worker. Stay away. Hamburger rule.
obsolete signature form
replaced by JPEGs.
http://www.okcupid.com/profile/acadiaBAT
1. You have links in your profile.
2. You mention the zombie apocalypse.
3. You don't have a photo.
I think you are really failing to understand the limited scope of your audience here.
Lets say that there are 100 women in your area that are on OKC and are in your age range.
Of those, 30% will be feminist, so down to 30 right off the bat.
Of those, half of them want someone athletic, so those are out, 15.
Of those 15, 5 have a problem with you being an Atheist, so they are done.
Of the 10 that are left, 5 got to the point where you said "Not a fan of movies" and couldn't grok you any longer.
So, out of my mythical 100, you're down to 5 before you have even sent a message. That isn't a very good start.
I don't know why you feel you have to limit yourself so much. I am in a happy marriage and my wife and I don't have very much in common at all. It was certainly no nerd/cheerleader thing, but it wasn't matchy/matchy. It is totally up to you, but if you're not having success getting them dates, I'm telling you I have a good idea why.
In your third picture, those sunglasses are way too big for you head. The last picture? You look like your head is way too small for your body. I'd dump both of them.
Oh, and get rid of...
1. "I want to clarify that I genuinely love these things (not ironic love), so I'm not a hipster (though what hipster would admit to being a hipster?). Though I am hip, so..."
2. "That's my day job, and I do not identify myself with it at all, but I felt like it's "what I'm doing" right now, so I should list it. Boring. Sorry. DON'T WRITE ME OFF YET THOUGH, I'M ALSO AN ARTIST OR SOME SHIT."
3. "I mean, shit, I love smart humor like Arrested Development as much as the NEXT person who discovered it after it ended, but that doesn't mean I'm all references and witty banter. I often make stupid puns, too. Don't hate me."
I'm not even sure why #3 is in your self summary.
Are they positive, happy, or otherwise excited about life?
Do they seem sane and keep control of their life?
Do they seem like someone I would enjoy hanging out with?
Do I find them attractive?
That's it.
If they are big into philosophical debates, that's cool. We can do that when we hang out, but I don't want to hear her thesis before meeting her. Profiles are not to be the perfect description of you, they are to be the best presentation of you to new potential mates.
EDIT: That person was me, Skoal Cat. And yeah .. it was kind of a bomb. It was interesting, but none of the girls I marked for "seeing again" wanted to do the same ... so as far as success rates go, this was par for the course.
I've been once. It wasn't terrible, but a bit of a downer when it was 7 guys to 4 girls. Try to find something other than work to talk about (unless you're really passionate about your job I guess), because 3-5 minutes will fly pretty quickly.
45 minutes later
"Aw, man. I didn't get any 'Would see again' I don't understand."
In other news. I put my profile as "Seeing someone" many months ago, despite the fact that I was not seeing someone. I was mostly inactive on the site aside from once or twice a week or 2 I'd get a couple messages from girls that did not interest me in the slightest. So instead of finding girls I was interested in I decided to mark myself as seeing someone and promptly forget about the website. I think it's about time to redo my profile and take some new pictures and see whats going on in my area.
If you're going, think about the 5 most common questions. don't ask those.
The questions you ask are just as good as answers. As an example, if you asked "What do you think of the military ramp up in the Middle East?" it goes to say you're thinking about that line of stuff. If you ask "Who is your favorite duck?" it shows you have a good sense of humor.
And its clearly Darkwing. Fuck you if you don't think so.
You should not shit where you eat. Should not do it. Absolutely never. Everytime it fails, bad things happen.
But everytime it works....
So fuck the advice, listen to your heart. If you dig this girl, which I know you do because seriously the way you talk about her I see little heart bubbles coming out of your cranium, you should just jump.
Uncle Scrooge has Darkwing in a heartbeat.
Let's get dangerous.
Until the end: "I had a good time," quick hug, then she runs off like Cinderella. No kiss, or even a peck on the cheek... And she didn't really leave me an opportunity to give her one. Which is pretty much the same thing that happened on the last date, come to think of it.
Very cool girl, and I dig her. But if it wasn't for the fact that she keeps saying yes to dates, I'd assume she's just not attracted to me.
Am I overthinking? By the third date, should she be displaying some sort of overt sign of attraction here?
Or are you waiting for her to make a move or something? She may just think you wanted to hang out.
Do you know what is quite possibly the most boring and banal thing to talk about? Hipsters and your opinions on them or trying to explain how you're not one. Seriously, get rid of it.
Basically, erase any mention of "hipster". Also, by your pictures, it's glaringly obvious that you're not one, so it's not something you should be at all worried about.
I'm not a rapist and I spend the vast majority of my profile assuring women that I am not one.
edit: Not sure I spelled that right. I do sabre fencing, not rapier fencing.