Right, Hellsworn Blessing. Such an amazing party buff.
It basically won the encounter because the party was hampered by magical darkness, but Blessing grants darkvision that could see through it, so he just destroyed it.
But more interesting, he's a Deva. That was infused with a demon buff. I made it exceedingly clear how unpleasant the experience was for him, rocking him to his soul, and told him the deal with Devas and Rakshasas. He has a -2 to attacks and skill checks now that he is back to his former self.
Was there an article in the last month or two with more hybrid options for some of the other Essentials classes? I think there was some Thief stuff, right?
You know that rangers can start without the Nature skill, and have absolutely zero links to wilds and woodlands, right?
Exactly. Various feats and powers you take will have hunter-y names, but there's nothing stopping your ranger from being just plain ol' "guy what has two swords".
I've been trying to make this comment for an hour but I keep getting "server too busy".
There is also lost opportunity to consider, what if I want 2 swords and the features from another class?
I don't want, for example, all the class features of a rogue AND the class features of a ranger. What if I just want a rogue that dual wields? The only answer anyone seems to have is "play ranger" and to me that defeats the purpose of playing DnD in the first place. That's getting close to might as well play diablo 2 on paper territory.
Currently the only way that I can play a dual wielding rogue/thief is by having him hold 2 swords because he thinks it looks cool. He can't swing them in rapid succession because he has an inner ear problem and that kind of maneuver is too taxing on his balance.
What is the purpose of playing D&D for you? Identifying with a class as written in a book? There are plenty of ways to make what you want happen, but the easiest is to ignore what is written in a book and use your imagination to play a Ranger as a sneaky thief type.
edit: you could, of course, make this happen as a Rogue. Half-Elf Rogue with Twin Strike Dilettante, Low Slash, Hybrid Rogue/Ranger, Two Weapon Fighting Feats, etc.
What is the purpose of playing D&D for you? Identifying with a class as written in a book? There are plenty of ways to make what you want happen, but the easiest is to ignore what is written in a book and use your imagination to play a Ranger as a sneaky thief type.
In my experience I find my sneakyness to be too gimped when I try something like this.
Other than "play ranger" I don't see why a dual wielding combat style should be tied to one class. The two weapon fighting feats (all 2 of them?) don't really add much.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
What is the purpose of playing D&D for you? Identifying with a class as written in a book? There are plenty of ways to make what you want happen, but the easiest is to ignore what is written in a book and use your imagination to play a Ranger as a sneaky thief type.
In my experience I find my sneakyness to be too gimped when I try something like this.
Other than "play ranger" I don't see why a dual wielding combat style should be tied to one class. The two weapon fighting feats (all 2 of them?) don't really add much.
1) Rangers are one of the other sneaky classes. Ones that get Stealth as a class skill. They don't get Thievery, but you can get that with Sneak of Shadows, as well as some Sneak Attack to boot.
2) Dual wielding isn't tied to one class. It's tied to three separate classes: Ranger, Barbarian and Fighter.
As someone else has mentioned, you could Hybrid Rogue/Ranger and go for twinstrike tomfoolery, be a half-elf and take it as your Dilettante option, or pick the Rogue powers that give you minor-action attacks.
Don't let the mechanics get in the way of your roleplaying, it's a trap. Use the mechanics to make the style of character you want to play. You could EASILY make a sneaky urban type that knows his way around tombs and ruins but knows NOTHING at all about the great outdoors, who dices people up with a mix of stealthiness and using two weapons.
What is the purpose of playing D&D for you? Identifying with a class as written in a book? There are plenty of ways to make what you want happen, but the easiest is to ignore what is written in a book and use your imagination to play a Ranger as a sneaky thief type.
In my experience I find my sneakyness to be too gimped when I try something like this.
Other than "play ranger" I don't see why a dual wielding combat style should be tied to one class. The two weapon fighting feats (all 2 of them?) don't really add much.
A two-weapon combat style is not limited to the Ranger.
The Stealth and Thievery skills are not limited to the Rogue.
I've been trying to make this comment for an hour but I keep getting "server too busy".
There is also lost opportunity to consider, what if I want 2 swords and the features from another class?
I don't want, for example, all the class features of a rogue AND the class features of a ranger. What if I just want a rogue that dual wields? The only answer anyone seems to have is "play ranger" and to me that defeats the purpose of playing DnD in the first place. That's getting close to might as well play diablo 2 on paper territory.
Currently the only way that I can play a dual wielding rogue/thief is by having him hold 2 swords because he thinks it looks cool. He can't swing them in rapid succession because he has an inner ear problem and that kind of maneuver is too taxing on his balance.
For good or for ill, classes have hats in 4e. Fighters are defensive heavily armored warriors, not just guys who know weapons. Wizards use magic for debuffing and battlefield control, not just magic in all it's myriad forms. One of the Rangers hats "dual wielding guy", which means that if you want to dual wield, you're probably going to have to be a Ranger in some form (or Fighter, or Barbarian).
Dual-wielding Rogue? A level 4 Brute Scoundrel Rogue can have Backstabber, Warrior of the Wild and Novice Power for a Ranger encounter power. Wield a rapier main-hand and a dagger or short sword off-hand (or, alternatively, take Two Weapon Warrior instead of Warrior of the Wild to dual-wield rapiers). By the time you hit Paragon, you can go Paragon Multiclassing as a Ranger for Twin Strike (complete with Sneak Attack damage).
What is the purpose of playing D&D for you? Identifying with a class as written in a book? There are plenty of ways to make what you want happen, but the easiest is to ignore what is written in a book and use your imagination to play a Ranger as a sneaky thief type.
In my experience I find my sneakyness to be too gimped when I try something like this.
Other than "play ranger" I don't see why a dual wielding combat style should be tied to one class. The two weapon fighting feats (all 2 of them?) don't really add much.
A two-weapon combat style is not limited to the Ranger.
The Stealth and Thievery skills are not limited to the Rogue.
I think this has been pointed out already.
Tempest Fighter + Background + Multiclass feat gets you all that as well.
What is the purpose of playing D&D for you? Identifying with a class as written in a book? There are plenty of ways to make what you want happen, but the easiest is to ignore what is written in a book and use your imagination to play a Ranger as a sneaky thief type.
In my experience I find my sneakyness to be too gimped when I try something like this.
Other than "play ranger" I don't see why a dual wielding combat style should be tied to one class. The two weapon fighting feats (all 2 of them?) don't really add much.
A two-weapon combat style is not limited to the Ranger.
The Stealth and Thievery skills are not limited to the Rogue.
I think this has been pointed out already.
Tempest Fighter + Background + Multiclass feat gets you all that as well.
Warlock dual wielding daggers.
Monk... holding multiple things.
Zed understands that three words solve any and all problems one might have with their choice of class.
An Order Adept Fighter can take either of the Assassin multiclass feats to gain ki focus access, which he can upgrade in place of his weapon and lets him use his Theme power. Congratulations! You now have a Fighter with an area burst power that can take Wizard utilities.
I'm trying to brainstorm ideas for a very abstract skill challenge involving a single character enduring many consecutive battles without sufficient time to rest between them. The idea behind it is that a character is forced to enter a tournament as a solo combatant, and the skill challenge represents a montage sequence of battles.
I just came up with this idea and haven't yet put that much thought into it, but here's what I'm thinking of as of right now:
* One PC is the combatant. The skill checks he makes are intended to emulate a series to fights over an extended period of time. He can gain bonuses to his skill check rolls by expending encounter and daily powers. Expending encounter powers grants a very minor benefit, but they refresh each time the combatant succeeds on a primary skill check (each success on a primary skill check represents the combatant's victory in a battle). Daily powers grant a great benefit, but they do not refresh. Whenever he fails a skill check, the combatant may spend a healing surge to negate the failure (if he fails by a great enough amount, he might need to spend multiple healing surges).
* The other PCs are trying to support the combatant from the sidelines. They may do this by shouting encouragement, attempting to get the rest of the audience to root for the character, or by trying to covertly sabotage other participants. Succeeding in these skill checks grants bonuses to the combatant's skill check rolls.
* The tournament represented by this skill challenge is not the main focus of an adventure. It should be the only thing that the party does in a given day so that the combatant PC can recuperate with an extended rest.
The way I'd do it is: Have three rounds of "combat". Each round have a different flavour of challenger or spectacle for you character (naval battle, huge guy wearing a gimp mask, graceful female assassins, wild beasts, a parkour etc etc). Have the single PC make a skill roll he feels will do the most good and then have the pcs do skill rolls they feel will help. Personally I'd just let them be creative as long as they don't role the same thing every time (the different flavours of the challenge can help to make them use various skills). Make his skill rolls count for more (either by doubling them or making the other rolls assists).
Then make the final battle a real combat encounter where depending on the story you either have your other pcs involved (maybe they jump the fence, maybe the king catches them and chucks them into the ring) OR to make it a bit interesting and different you could roll up substitute gladiator pcs hat the players can pick from for that fight. Giving them a chance to play something interesting and different mechanics or role wise.
Tonight I'm convincing PCs to scale down into a pit with a blind hydra and a gelatinous cube disguised as a spring, and then using skinwing behemoths to pick off anyone who wants to play it smart and stay outside the hole *cough*shaman*cough*.
Then I'm going to trick them into an out-of-genre retelling of the main battle sequence from Congo using Girallons and a ruined temple to a god that never existed.
If they survive that, they'll be captured/eaten by halflings.
I'm trying to brainstorm ideas for a very abstract skill challenge involving a single character enduring many consecutive battles without sufficient time to rest between them. The idea behind it is that a character is forced to enter a tournament as a solo combatant, and the skill challenge represents a montage sequence of battles.
I just came up with this idea and haven't yet put that much thought into it, but here's what I'm thinking of as of right now:
* One PC is the combatant. The skill checks he makes are intended to emulate a series to fights over an extended period of time. He can gain bonuses to his skill check rolls by expending encounter and daily powers. Expending encounter powers grants a very minor benefit, but they refresh each time the combatant succeeds on a primary skill check (each success on a primary skill check represents the combatant's victory in a battle). Daily powers grant a great benefit, but they do not refresh. Whenever he fails a skill check, the combatant may spend a healing surge to negate the failure (if he fails by a great enough amount, he might need to spend multiple healing surges).
* The other PCs are trying to support the combatant from the sidelines. They may do this by shouting encouragement, attempting to get the rest of the audience to root for the character, or by trying to covertly sabotage other participants. Succeeding in these skill checks grants bonuses to the combatant's skill check rolls.
* The tournament represented by this skill challenge is not the main focus of an adventure. It should be the only thing that the party does in a given day so that the combatant PC can recuperate with an extended rest.
I think this is a pretty sweet idea. I like the use of healing surges as the "currency" of the skill challenge. Rather than having a set number of defeats equalling loss, the condition for loss is "you run out of healing surges and you are defeated."
That could create a sense of urgency about the contest, because a resource that keeps you alive is being used, and doing so seems to make the skill challenge a different species of combat rather than just making skill checks.
Perhaps the weaker opponents would require a fewer number of successes to be defeated, and stronger opponents would require more. Make sure to give them awesome names. You never know when you might bring an NPC back and the memorable names are good for that. A defeated opponent could emerge later on as an embittered rival or a respectful chevalier.
Very cool idea. I hope to have the chance to steal it someday.
To expand upon Horseshoe's idea, make sure to give them goofy and/or badass nicknames. Like...Hank "Spoonmallet" McGillicuddy. Or Steven "Razorboots" Armstrong.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Question regarding the new Essentials Multiclassing Rules:
Do you still choose 1 at-will/encounter/daily from the Essentials classes like normal hybrids or do you automatically gain them all as you level given that they don't have levels associated with the powers?
Yay, they use Fortiguard at my new client site and Orokos was blocked for me. (horrible)
It was coming up Adult Materials but apparently I can pretty easily get those ratings reviewed. Fortiguard has updated it to the requested Games category.
If Orokos is blocked for you, send the filter name / update request URL / whatever my way so I can adjust it if it is incorrectly filtered.
Rules Interpretation Issue:
I'm playing a Thief with a Quarterstaff (from Dragon 391) with the Sneaky Staff Feat, Backbreaking Staff...etc
I can now use Staffs to attack like a light blade, and I can also use their properties. I want to know how these two properties interact:
Staff of the Traveler: (Property) Whenever you shift, you can instead teleport the number of squares you would have shifted.
Cloak of Translocation: (Property) When you use a teleportation power you gain a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex until the end of your next turn.
Is a shift a "teleportation power" if I am using the Staff of the Traveler to activate it? Would the Cloak of Transportation let me get a bonus whenever I shift and teleport a few spaces?
If you get the shift from a power, then teleporting would give the power the Teleportation keyword and trigger the cloak. However, just shifting yourself as a move action or whatever would not trigger it, because that's not a power.
If you get the shift from a power, then teleporting would give the power the Teleportation keyword and trigger the cloak. However, just shifting yourself as a move action or whatever would not trigger it, because that's not a power.
Damn. I was about to build the most annoying Goblin EVER. Teleport EVERYWHERE, Awesome defenses! I'll just have to settle on teleporting everywhere instead. Still a ridiculous build.
I think it would work with the Kobold power Shifty, since that's actually a power.
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AnialosCollies are love, Collies are life!Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Here I was, thinking Kobolds couldn't possibly be more annoying. Then terrendos thinks of a way. Thank goodness my IRL DM doesn't read this forum. He LOVES Kobolds.
I think it would work with the Kobold power Shifty, since that's actually a power.
I thought that's how they were going to interact, but I wasn't sure.
"Goblin Tactics" triggers on a miss. If they've already missed me, that defensive bonus is only good if I am getting ganged up, on which makes the power good, but it's sort of a trap. That means I'm not where I am supposed to be, and need to get out of there, but I should have never been in that position to begin with.
I might be too tempted to get in really bad spots just to have an excuse to teleport around...which does sound like a goblin. Getting in trouble just for the fun of it might be this goblin's thing. Decision made. Risky shift powers and lots of teleporting. Character made.
Edit:
Got "Goblin Tactics" and "Shifty" confused. I'm totally building a Kobold now.
Ok, I should be getting to bed, but I had a player character self-immolation tonight that stands in the top tier of anything I've seen in almost two decades of D&D. This really must be shared with the world.
Spoiled because Jebus I am a wordy bastard.
For a little bit of background, this is Dark Sun, level 10 and the PCs have been run out of Raam for fomenting rebellion, then found themselves caught up in events that ended with them being magically transported to the Ringing Mountains. Party composition is Minotaur (beast-headed half-giant) Warden, Mul Fighter, Half-Giant Barbarian, Thri-Kreen Melee Ranger and Shaman. 4/5 of the party has 20 Str. I include this detail for a reason that shall become apparent. It's also worth noting that the player of the Warden is on his third character and has been playing with us roughly 2 months. My Dark Sun campaigns are brutal, but fair.
I'm going to include some campaign detail here, to set the proper mood.
The PCs are traveling along a ridge on the mountains looking for some sort of civilization when they spot a stone structure on the next mountain over and decide to investigate. The mountains on Athas are littered with ruins, so this wasn't some sign from the (non-existent) gods, just somewhere they could look for clues as to their location since they have no idea where they are. After climbing down one mountain and up the other, they come to what must have formerly been a courtyard paved with carved stone blocks, with a 3-story stone building in the middle of it and trees growing through the old paving stones. The building was built sort of ziggurat-style, so the first floor is 50 feet wide, the second is 30 feet, and the top one is 10 feet by 10 feet. Each story has at least one opening to the outside, and the whole thing looks so ancient as to be incredibly unstable.
When the PCs go to investigate, they notice some peculiarities. First, there are a lot of flowering plants around this building, the first they've seen outside the templar's gardens. The single door (10 feet wide, 12 feet tall) on the ground floor has a strange row of cylindrical protrusions (about 2 feet long and several inches in radius) coming horizontally out from both walls for as far as the PCs can see back into it, which is about 25 feet before it ends in a wall. The floor stretches back 15 of that, then drops off and is not visible. The building itself is made of "strange, porous, dusty rock", since the PCs wouldn't know to recognize sedimentary rock, but the floor immediately in the door way is 15 feet by 10 feet of marble.
The first PC (the Fighter, naturally) takes a step in the door and hits the marble pressure plate, sounding a gong somewhere deep in the building. A few seconds later, the PCs hear a deep scraping noise, and seconds after that, girallons start boiling out of every opening on the building.
For those of you unfamiliar with girallons, just think of the best monster race imaginable for a Brawler Fighter, then double the badass quotient. Behold;
I love these guys. Always have. I just have a thing for four armed albino monkeys with unquenchable bloodlust. I'm a sucker that way.
Anyway, the party gets hit with 5 of these things. Level 10 brutes all, since I was lazy and haven't statted up alternate role versions of them yet. Between the climb speed, the large size, the reach and the fact that they hit like mack trucks, there was some panic in the party early, but they pulled it out at the end. One of the girallons escaped back into the building, disappearing down the hallway and the PCs heard the scraping sound again.
So the party, never ones to let a good opportunity to hurl themselves into harm's way go to waste, head into the building. It's dark inside (at least in this part), so they brought their floating torch. They find out, after much tromping on the gong-pad and near-constant gonging, that the hallway simply drops into a shaft after that initial 15 feet, and that their 10 squares of light won't make it to the bottom. All along the shaft are those same cylinders, which the girallons were using as handholds (to try and give the PCs a hint as to the means of navigating this place).
So, let's recap; hole of indeterminate depth, insufficient light, no immediate threat, party with 90 total Str, 4 dead 800 lb gorillas laying around. Obviously, the best course of action here is to drag a garillon corpse into the hallway, throw it down the pit and try to gauge depth that way, right? RIGHT? That's what any normal, sane, totally-not-psychopathic person would do in that situation. We got this.
So they do. And down goes the monkey. Which is large. Into the hole, which is 10 feet wide if you don't count those 2 foot protrusions on either side. And the ape corpse bounces merrily down the shaft, pinging from one side to pong on the other, thoroughly tenderizing the thankfully deceased primate and giving the walls and floor a nice, thick coating of ape gore before hitting the bottom of the shaft with a splortch.
I inform the players that the sounds would indicate a shaft roughly 70 feet deep. The Warden, being the go-getter he is, offers to climb to the bottom of the shaft to investigate it. He's a strong dude in light armor, trained in Athletics, so he's ok going down. It's a little slippery, but he makes it just fine. He then proceeds to examine his surroundings to try and figure out what is going on and if he can find a way in.
For the purposes of the narrative, it is probably best to inform the reader at this point that he is standing on the sliding trap door that the girallon use to seal themselves into the building. And that the construction of this place is primarily vertical. This will become important shortly.
So he searches the bottom and notices scrape marks, as one might expect to find on a door that slides over/under other rock slabs. But he can't get a very good look at it because there's a freaking 800 lb monkey laying there bleeding all over everything. So, in true adventurer spirit, he calls his friends over to the pit and they devise a way to haul the monkey back up using ropes. I, as the fair and balanced DM that I am, rule that they're not going to pull this giant ape all the way out of the hole, but they can pull him up to a height that allows the Warden to properly search as well as he can given that the entire area is covered with blood and he's being dripped on from a monkey corpse that his grunting and groaning party mates have suspended above him rather precariously.
And search he does. My personal philosophy is that a secret door that lacks a way to be opened simply isn't any fun at all, so I provided him with a handy block of rock just above the door slab itself and strongly hinted that it could be manipulated. Of course, I didn't tell him that the Str check DC to do so was in the low 20's, it being an ancient device made of stone in a temple full of giant, angry monkies after all. But of course, he kicks it and rolls a 20 and this, dear reader, is where things got really fun.
The door started to slide open. Under his feet. At a fairly alarming rate, though I would guess that any rate in that situation would have been at least a bit alarming. So he does the sane thing; he announces his intention to grab a hand-hold on one of those cylinders to keep himself from falling through. I tell him that, since they're covered in blood and various other effluvia that it's going to count as slippery and he'll take a -5 penalty. He says "ok" and rolls. A natural 1, for 10 total, biffing the check and slipping free of the wall and potentially this Athasian coil.
But fear not, dear reader, for his tale has not yet ended. As a kind, beneficent DM who feels kind of guilty for killing his second PC in the same combat during which he was introduced, I give him a second chance to grab ahold and save himself. And he does, dear reader, he does.
So our hero, dangling over black nothingness of indeterminate depth, from a hand-hold covered in ape-goop, has lived to fight another day! But wait. What's that sound? That sound that simultaneously haunts the dreams of any righteous DM and gives rise to the very shared mythology of our beloved game? The sound that proceeded the valiant attack that slew the vile gazebo, the horn that sounds every charge that ends in a TPK; that's the sound of a player having The Best Idea of All Time (tm).
And thus it was that our valiant hero, clinging to life at what used to be the bottom of a shaft but which now appeared to be a portal to some unknown abyss uttered that soon-to-be-immortal phrase; "Drop the monkey."
You see, dear reader, players being not so unlike monkeys themselves, a trick that had worked once (the determination of depth via monkey-dropping) was assumed wholly appropriate for use again in a similar, though not quite identical, situation.
And lo, it was dropped.
Thusly did the monkey impacteth our hero (after an appropriate terrain attack roll, rolled by one of his party members, I'm not a monster) and bear him with its great weight to the ground, so very far below.
And with a splat, followed immediately by a muffled *whuuump* our hero and his primate traveling companion did determine successfully the depth of the shaft. It is of no small irony, and a source of no small amount of mirth to yours truly, that the damage from the fall did not kill our intrepid hero. Rather, it was the fall, combined with the damage taken from an on-level single-use situation terrain attack that killed him. Had he simply fallen, the monkey would not have been there to end him.
Truly, dear reader, it is moments like these that keep me coming back to the table.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I am pleasantly surprised how viable this Swordmage|Vampire test build is turning out to be. Defender-level defenses, plenty of opportunities for damage, and a fair bit of control.
It does, however, require the investment of 3-4 mandatory feats.
There are worse ways to go, I'm sure. I can't think of any off the top of my head though.
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AnialosCollies are love, Collies are life!Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Ah yes, like my wife's blackgaurd for our essentials game! She had 9hp and 5thp. I did a burst one next to her to finish the fight. Of course I naturally hit only her...and roll max damage...which was 15. I don't thing she'll let me live that one down for quite a while.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Sadly for poor Drexel (the 1 HP character I mentioned above) he never got to walk away. The new cleric in the party was oddly antagonistic to the warlock...
We ended the session right after the falling monkey. The good news is that we have two characters in the party with healing. The bad news is that one of them is under the monkey and the other one has an 8 strength and is fully well aware of the fact that there is no way in hell she can climb down there. So the current plan is to tie some ropes together and have the 3 remaining Strength 20 characters lower her down.
Besides, that way there will be a rope for everyone to climb down when we continue exploring the ruins
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It basically won the encounter because the party was hampered by magical darkness, but Blessing grants darkvision that could see through it, so he just destroyed it.
But more interesting, he's a Deva. That was infused with a demon buff. I made it exceedingly clear how unpleasant the experience was for him, rocking him to his soul, and told him the deal with Devas and Rakshasas. He has a -2 to attacks and skill checks now that he is back to his former self.
"When does that go away?"
"I'll let you know."
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I've been trying to make this comment for an hour but I keep getting "server too busy".
There is also lost opportunity to consider, what if I want 2 swords and the features from another class?
I don't want, for example, all the class features of a rogue AND the class features of a ranger. What if I just want a rogue that dual wields? The only answer anyone seems to have is "play ranger" and to me that defeats the purpose of playing DnD in the first place. That's getting close to might as well play diablo 2 on paper territory.
Currently the only way that I can play a dual wielding rogue/thief is by having him hold 2 swords because he thinks it looks cool. He can't swing them in rapid succession because he has an inner ear problem and that kind of maneuver is too taxing on his balance.
edit: you could, of course, make this happen as a Rogue. Half-Elf Rogue with Twin Strike Dilettante, Low Slash, Hybrid Rogue/Ranger, Two Weapon Fighting Feats, etc.
If it is not, then just multiclass ranger. I'm doing it right now with my ruthless ruffian, and it works out just fine.
In my experience I find my sneakyness to be too gimped when I try something like this.
Other than "play ranger" I don't see why a dual wielding combat style should be tied to one class. The two weapon fighting feats (all 2 of them?) don't really add much.
1) Rangers are one of the other sneaky classes. Ones that get Stealth as a class skill. They don't get Thievery, but you can get that with Sneak of Shadows, as well as some Sneak Attack to boot.
2) Dual wielding isn't tied to one class. It's tied to three separate classes: Ranger, Barbarian and Fighter.
As someone else has mentioned, you could Hybrid Rogue/Ranger and go for twinstrike tomfoolery, be a half-elf and take it as your Dilettante option, or pick the Rogue powers that give you minor-action attacks.
Don't let the mechanics get in the way of your roleplaying, it's a trap. Use the mechanics to make the style of character you want to play. You could EASILY make a sneaky urban type that knows his way around tombs and ruins but knows NOTHING at all about the great outdoors, who dices people up with a mix of stealthiness and using two weapons.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
A two-weapon combat style is not limited to the Ranger.
The Stealth and Thievery skills are not limited to the Rogue.
I think this has been pointed out already.
Dual-wielding Rogue? A level 4 Brute Scoundrel Rogue can have Backstabber, Warrior of the Wild and Novice Power for a Ranger encounter power. Wield a rapier main-hand and a dagger or short sword off-hand (or, alternatively, take Two Weapon Warrior instead of Warrior of the Wild to dual-wield rapiers). By the time you hit Paragon, you can go Paragon Multiclassing as a Ranger for Twin Strike (complete with Sneak Attack damage).
Warlock dual wielding daggers.
Monk... holding multiple things.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Zed understands that three words solve any and all problems one might have with their choice of class.
Roll a fighter.
Before that they were Paladins.
But they're better now.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
An Order Adept Fighter can take either of the Assassin multiclass feats to gain ki focus access, which he can upgrade in place of his weapon and lets him use his Theme power. Congratulations! You now have a Fighter with an area burst power that can take Wizard utilities.
The way I'd do it is: Have three rounds of "combat". Each round have a different flavour of challenger or spectacle for you character (naval battle, huge guy wearing a gimp mask, graceful female assassins, wild beasts, a parkour etc etc). Have the single PC make a skill roll he feels will do the most good and then have the pcs do skill rolls they feel will help. Personally I'd just let them be creative as long as they don't role the same thing every time (the different flavours of the challenge can help to make them use various skills). Make his skill rolls count for more (either by doubling them or making the other rolls assists).
Then make the final battle a real combat encounter where depending on the story you either have your other pcs involved (maybe they jump the fence, maybe the king catches them and chucks them into the ring) OR to make it a bit interesting and different you could roll up substitute gladiator pcs hat the players can pick from for that fight. Giving them a chance to play something interesting and different mechanics or role wise.
Then I'm going to trick them into an out-of-genre retelling of the main battle sequence from Congo using Girallons and a ruined temple to a god that never existed.
If they survive that, they'll be captured/eaten by halflings.
The Ringing Mountains are awesome.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I'm so stealing this.
I think this is a pretty sweet idea. I like the use of healing surges as the "currency" of the skill challenge. Rather than having a set number of defeats equalling loss, the condition for loss is "you run out of healing surges and you are defeated."
That could create a sense of urgency about the contest, because a resource that keeps you alive is being used, and doing so seems to make the skill challenge a different species of combat rather than just making skill checks.
Perhaps the weaker opponents would require a fewer number of successes to be defeated, and stronger opponents would require more. Make sure to give them awesome names. You never know when you might bring an NPC back and the memorable names are good for that. A defeated opponent could emerge later on as an embittered rival or a respectful chevalier.
Very cool idea. I hope to have the chance to steal it someday.
Do you still choose 1 at-will/encounter/daily from the Essentials classes like normal hybrids or do you automatically gain them all as you level given that they don't have levels associated with the powers?
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
He might be better off if he wasn't trying to soak the entire damage output of an EL+3 encounter. Just a thought.
It was coming up Adult Materials but apparently I can pretty easily get those ratings reviewed. Fortiguard has updated it to the requested Games category.
If Orokos is blocked for you, send the filter name / update request URL / whatever my way so I can adjust it if it is incorrectly filtered.
I'm playing a Thief with a Quarterstaff (from Dragon 391) with the Sneaky Staff Feat, Backbreaking Staff...etc
I can now use Staffs to attack like a light blade, and I can also use their properties. I want to know how these two properties interact:
Staff of the Traveler: (Property) Whenever you shift, you can instead teleport the number of squares you would have shifted.
Cloak of Translocation: (Property) When you use a teleportation power you gain a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex until the end of your next turn.
Is a shift a "teleportation power" if I am using the Staff of the Traveler to activate it? Would the Cloak of Transportation let me get a bonus whenever I shift and teleport a few spaces?
Damn. I was about to build the most annoying Goblin EVER. Teleport EVERYWHERE, Awesome defenses! I'll just have to settle on teleporting everywhere instead. Still a ridiculous build.
"Goblin Tactics" triggers on a miss. If they've already missed me, that defensive bonus is only good if I am getting ganged up, on which makes the power good, but it's sort of a trap. That means I'm not where I am supposed to be, and need to get out of there, but I should have never been in that position to begin with.
I might be too tempted to get in really bad spots just to have an excuse to teleport around...which does sound like a goblin. Getting in trouble just for the fun of it might be this goblin's thing. Decision made. Risky shift powers and lots of teleporting. Character made.
Edit:
Got "Goblin Tactics" and "Shifty" confused. I'm totally building a Kobold now.
Spoiled because Jebus I am a wordy bastard.
I'm going to include some campaign detail here, to set the proper mood.
The PCs are traveling along a ridge on the mountains looking for some sort of civilization when they spot a stone structure on the next mountain over and decide to investigate. The mountains on Athas are littered with ruins, so this wasn't some sign from the (non-existent) gods, just somewhere they could look for clues as to their location since they have no idea where they are. After climbing down one mountain and up the other, they come to what must have formerly been a courtyard paved with carved stone blocks, with a 3-story stone building in the middle of it and trees growing through the old paving stones. The building was built sort of ziggurat-style, so the first floor is 50 feet wide, the second is 30 feet, and the top one is 10 feet by 10 feet. Each story has at least one opening to the outside, and the whole thing looks so ancient as to be incredibly unstable.
When the PCs go to investigate, they notice some peculiarities. First, there are a lot of flowering plants around this building, the first they've seen outside the templar's gardens. The single door (10 feet wide, 12 feet tall) on the ground floor has a strange row of cylindrical protrusions (about 2 feet long and several inches in radius) coming horizontally out from both walls for as far as the PCs can see back into it, which is about 25 feet before it ends in a wall. The floor stretches back 15 of that, then drops off and is not visible. The building itself is made of "strange, porous, dusty rock", since the PCs wouldn't know to recognize sedimentary rock, but the floor immediately in the door way is 15 feet by 10 feet of marble.
The first PC (the Fighter, naturally) takes a step in the door and hits the marble pressure plate, sounding a gong somewhere deep in the building. A few seconds later, the PCs hear a deep scraping noise, and seconds after that, girallons start boiling out of every opening on the building.
For those of you unfamiliar with girallons, just think of the best monster race imaginable for a Brawler Fighter, then double the badass quotient. Behold;
I love these guys. Always have. I just have a thing for four armed albino monkeys with unquenchable bloodlust. I'm a sucker that way.
Anyway, the party gets hit with 5 of these things. Level 10 brutes all, since I was lazy and haven't statted up alternate role versions of them yet. Between the climb speed, the large size, the reach and the fact that they hit like mack trucks, there was some panic in the party early, but they pulled it out at the end. One of the girallons escaped back into the building, disappearing down the hallway and the PCs heard the scraping sound again.
So the party, never ones to let a good opportunity to hurl themselves into harm's way go to waste, head into the building. It's dark inside (at least in this part), so they brought their floating torch. They find out, after much tromping on the gong-pad and near-constant gonging, that the hallway simply drops into a shaft after that initial 15 feet, and that their 10 squares of light won't make it to the bottom. All along the shaft are those same cylinders, which the girallons were using as handholds (to try and give the PCs a hint as to the means of navigating this place).
So, let's recap; hole of indeterminate depth, insufficient light, no immediate threat, party with 90 total Str, 4 dead 800 lb gorillas laying around. Obviously, the best course of action here is to drag a garillon corpse into the hallway, throw it down the pit and try to gauge depth that way, right? RIGHT? That's what any normal, sane, totally-not-psychopathic person would do in that situation. We got this.
So they do. And down goes the monkey. Which is large. Into the hole, which is 10 feet wide if you don't count those 2 foot protrusions on either side. And the ape corpse bounces merrily down the shaft, pinging from one side to pong on the other, thoroughly tenderizing the thankfully deceased primate and giving the walls and floor a nice, thick coating of ape gore before hitting the bottom of the shaft with a splortch.
I inform the players that the sounds would indicate a shaft roughly 70 feet deep. The Warden, being the go-getter he is, offers to climb to the bottom of the shaft to investigate it. He's a strong dude in light armor, trained in Athletics, so he's ok going down. It's a little slippery, but he makes it just fine. He then proceeds to examine his surroundings to try and figure out what is going on and if he can find a way in.
For the purposes of the narrative, it is probably best to inform the reader at this point that he is standing on the sliding trap door that the girallon use to seal themselves into the building. And that the construction of this place is primarily vertical. This will become important shortly.
So he searches the bottom and notices scrape marks, as one might expect to find on a door that slides over/under other rock slabs. But he can't get a very good look at it because there's a freaking 800 lb monkey laying there bleeding all over everything. So, in true adventurer spirit, he calls his friends over to the pit and they devise a way to haul the monkey back up using ropes. I, as the fair and balanced DM that I am, rule that they're not going to pull this giant ape all the way out of the hole, but they can pull him up to a height that allows the Warden to properly search as well as he can given that the entire area is covered with blood and he's being dripped on from a monkey corpse that his grunting and groaning party mates have suspended above him rather precariously.
And search he does. My personal philosophy is that a secret door that lacks a way to be opened simply isn't any fun at all, so I provided him with a handy block of rock just above the door slab itself and strongly hinted that it could be manipulated. Of course, I didn't tell him that the Str check DC to do so was in the low 20's, it being an ancient device made of stone in a temple full of giant, angry monkies after all. But of course, he kicks it and rolls a 20 and this, dear reader, is where things got really fun.
The door started to slide open. Under his feet. At a fairly alarming rate, though I would guess that any rate in that situation would have been at least a bit alarming. So he does the sane thing; he announces his intention to grab a hand-hold on one of those cylinders to keep himself from falling through. I tell him that, since they're covered in blood and various other effluvia that it's going to count as slippery and he'll take a -5 penalty. He says "ok" and rolls. A natural 1, for 10 total, biffing the check and slipping free of the wall and potentially this Athasian coil.
But fear not, dear reader, for his tale has not yet ended. As a kind, beneficent DM who feels kind of guilty for killing his second PC in the same combat during which he was introduced, I give him a second chance to grab ahold and save himself. And he does, dear reader, he does.
So our hero, dangling over black nothingness of indeterminate depth, from a hand-hold covered in ape-goop, has lived to fight another day! But wait. What's that sound? That sound that simultaneously haunts the dreams of any righteous DM and gives rise to the very shared mythology of our beloved game? The sound that proceeded the valiant attack that slew the vile gazebo, the horn that sounds every charge that ends in a TPK; that's the sound of a player having The Best Idea of All Time (tm).
And thus it was that our valiant hero, clinging to life at what used to be the bottom of a shaft but which now appeared to be a portal to some unknown abyss uttered that soon-to-be-immortal phrase; "Drop the monkey."
You see, dear reader, players being not so unlike monkeys themselves, a trick that had worked once (the determination of depth via monkey-dropping) was assumed wholly appropriate for use again in a similar, though not quite identical, situation.
And lo, it was dropped.
Thusly did the monkey impacteth our hero (after an appropriate terrain attack roll, rolled by one of his party members, I'm not a monster) and bear him with its great weight to the ground, so very far below.
And with a splat, followed immediately by a muffled *whuuump* our hero and his primate traveling companion did determine successfully the depth of the shaft. It is of no small irony, and a source of no small amount of mirth to yours truly, that the damage from the fall did not kill our intrepid hero. Rather, it was the fall, combined with the damage taken from an on-level single-use situation terrain attack that killed him. Had he simply fallen, the monkey would not have been there to end him.
Truly, dear reader, it is moments like these that keep me coming back to the table.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It does, however, require the investment of 3-4 mandatory feats.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Now that's a noble way to die!
There are worse ways to go, I'm sure. I can't think of any off the top of my head though.
Besides, that way there will be a rope for everyone to climb down when we continue exploring the ruins