Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Arcana skill.
Once per day, when you are wielding a blade, you can invoke the Swordmage Warding class feature as a minor action. Until the end of the encounter, you gain a +1 bonus to AC (or a +3 bonus to AC if you have one hand free).
In addition, you can use swordmage implements.
Well I see no such thing in the Forgotten Realms Players Guide. It ends with the free hand description. Maybe it was errata'd or something. Thank you nonetheless.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I'm trying to brainstorm ideas for a very abstract skill challenge involving a single character enduring many consecutive battles without sufficient time to rest between them. The idea behind it is that a character is forced to enter a tournament as a solo combatant, and the skill challenge represents a montage sequence of battles.
I just came up with this idea and haven't yet put that much thought into it, but here's what I'm thinking of as of right now:
* One PC is the combatant. The skill checks he makes are intended to emulate a series to fights over an extended period of time. He can gain bonuses to his skill check rolls by expending encounter and daily powers. Expending encounter powers grants a very minor benefit, but they refresh each time the combatant succeeds on a primary skill check (each success on a primary skill check represents the combatant's victory in a battle). Daily powers grant a great benefit, but they do not refresh. Whenever he fails a skill check, the combatant may spend a healing surge to negate the failure (if he fails by a great enough amount, he might need to spend multiple healing surges).
* The other PCs are trying to support the combatant from the sidelines. They may do this by shouting encouragement, attempting to get the rest of the audience to root for the character, or by trying to covertly sabotage other participants. Succeeding in these skill checks grants bonuses to the combatant's skill check rolls.
* The tournament represented by this skill challenge is not the main focus of an adventure. It should be the only thing that the party does in a given day so that the combatant PC can recuperate with an extended rest.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
That sounds pretty solid. Are you thinking of actually drawing up the fight if he makes it to the finals?
If you could take the Psionic Power builds for hybrids, you got a Con/Dex Battlemind build and a Dex/Con Monk build to put together and you have an amazing Kobold Psionic hybrid.
But of course WotC doesn't remember that when putting peanut butter and chocolate in the same book, you should edit the rules allowing the combination of great flavors to include the combining of peanut butter and chocolate.
I was actually thinking Revenant (Dwarf) Order Adept Assassin/Battlemind so I could take the Forgeborn Dwarf feats from Dragon 380, eventually dovetailing into Flameforged Champion at Paragon.
The best part? With training in Bluff and a face-obscuring helmet, he'll pass for your run-of-the-mill dwarf warrior until he starts manipulating shadows and making it rain fire from the sky.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Arcana skill.
Once per day, when you are wielding a blade, you can invoke the Swordmage Warding class feature as a minor action. Until the end of the encounter, you gain a +1 bonus to AC (or a +3 bonus to AC if you have one hand free).
In addition, you can use swordmage implements.
So, yup, it gives you the ability to wield blades as implements.
Doesn't this mean you can use any light/heavy blade as an implement for swordmage powers only?
Also, one question about double weapons. The quarterstaff as d12/12 or d12/d8 or d8/d8 or just d12 was only in regards to ranger/sentinel hybrid because nobody else can actually attack with both ends... right?
Kind of, sort of. There's a few classes with powers that attack with both main and off hand weapons; rangers have the most of them, barbarians and warriors have a few.
Kind of, sort of. There's a few classes with powers that attack with both main and off hand weapons; rangers have the most of them, barbarians and warriors have a few.
Ok, I was just worried that maybe I misunderstood the way 4e handles dual weapons and dual wielding. I wish there was something between the way that 3.5 and 4 handle it, as in, actually get to attack with both weapons but more balanced.
From what I've read of 3.5 and pathfinder dual wielding is either terrible (if you don't have supporting feats and appropriate level) or fairly over powered (when you do have all the feats to negate the penalties). I'd like something in the middle.
Something like:
Dual Attack
At-Will Standard
Target: Melee
Effect: Make a melee attack against an adjacent creature (with a -2 attack penalty).
Special: You can make an Off-hand Basic Attack against an adjacent creature.
Off-hand Basic Attack
At-Will Minor
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You attack a creature with Dual Attack
Attack: vs. AC
Damage: 1[W]
Of course stuff would need to be adjusted for balance, maybe no -2 attack penalty on the main hand or maybe a bigger penalty. Maybe the off-hand attack should get Strength/2 vs. AC or something.
Unfortunately adding a basic action causes all kinds of balance issues since none of the current classes were designed with it in mind
Edit: Not sure if the Special part is needed on the Dual Attack power or if the Immediate Reaction should be removed from Off-Hand Basic Attack.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Here's something you might like to consider.
Anyone can dual wield. It's totally not a problem. A caster can dual wield implements if they want to.
You get to pick which weapon to use for your attack - that's pretty useful. Having a pair of enchantments or weapon types to choose from. Of course, it only works for classes that use one-handers and can't use a shield, so you need to bear that in mind.
Example: A thief/rogue with a handcrossbow in one hand, and a dagger in the other. (Or a sword and dagger) Easy access to a melee attack, AND a ranged attack as needed, with no redraw fuss.
A wizard with a staff in one hand, and a wand in the other, and the defensive staff implement expertise thingie. They can use the staff's defensive stuff, or the wand's offensive stuff (wands usually have an encounter power embedded in them, at least for wizards).
It's more about versatility and style than Doing Twice As Much Damage. Unless you're a two-weapon ranger/tempest fighter/whirling barbarian, of course.
Some builds, like anything that wants a shield, or a Swordmage, are out of luck however.
I'm not sure if giving everyone a nerfed version of Twin Strike will really accomplish anything. Without any encounter powers that let them use two weapons, people who want to dual-wield are just going to gravitate to Ranger, Fighter or Barbarian anyway.
Anyone can dual wield. It's totally not a problem. A caster can dual wield implements if they want to.
You get to pick which weapon to use for your attack - that's pretty useful. Having a pair of enchantments or weapon types to choose from. Of course, it only works for classes that use one-handers and can't use a shield, so you need to bear that in mind.
Example: A thief/rogue with a handcrossbow in one hand, and a dagger in the other. (Or a sword and dagger) Easy access to a melee attack, AND a ranged attack as needed, with no redraw fuss.
A wizard with a staff in one hand, and a wand in the other, and the defensive staff implement expertise thingie. They can use the staff's defensive stuff, or the wand's offensive stuff (wands usually have an encounter power embedded in them, at least for wizards).
It's more about versatility and style than Doing Twice As Much Damage. Unless you're a two-weapon ranger/tempest fighter/whirling barbarian, of course.
Some builds, like anything that wants a shield, or a Swordmage, are out of luck however.
Oh I know how it works in 4e. It just seems to me that being able to hold an object in each hand is more of a fact of life than a specialization or a chosen combat style. When I play a rogue/thief I usually just leave the second hand empty since I can draw a thrown weapon with a minor action anyway. If I have an off-hand weapon with a certain enchantment I might want in a particular situation then this is even more reason to leave it on my belt, I can draw the enchanted weapon when needed or pull out a dagger and throw it without having to drop something.
Dual wielding in 4e is essentially "A class that only needs one hand to hold their weapon can choose to also hold a second weapon in their off hand. This allows their second hand to be non-empty".
Just feels a little lack-luster.
On the RP side of things, if I want to make a character that specializes in two-weapon combat he MUST also be a proficient woodsman... that just seems like an unnecessary restriction on character development.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
You know that rangers can start without the Nature skill, and have absolutely zero links to wilds and woodlands, right?
It's all about flavour. You want to play a two-weapon dude, play a ranger, fighter or barbarian, and tweak the flavour to fit.
On the RP side of things, if I want to make a character that specializes in two-weapon combat he MUST also be a proficient woodsman... that just seems like an unnecessary restriction on character development.
you must unlearn...what you have learned. you're taking things too literally. just because the best class to take advantage of dual wielding is Ranger doesn't mean you literally have to be Aragorn. You can play a Ranger as whatever you want: a frontline brawler born in the depths of poverty who picks on people bigger than him, the last surviving member of his tribe who walked in from the desert to a small settlement to start a new life, a swordsman trained at the best university in Faerun by arcane masters, etc.
just because the title of the class is Ranger and they are martial doesn't mean that's what it literally has to be. you can use your imagination to make it whatever you want, that's what RP is for.
Anyone can dual wield. It's totally not a problem. A caster can dual wield implements if they want to.
You get to pick which weapon to use for your attack - that's pretty useful. Having a pair of enchantments or weapon types to choose from. Of course, it only works for classes that use one-handers and can't use a shield, so you need to bear that in mind.
Example: A thief/rogue with a handcrossbow in one hand, and a dagger in the other. (Or a sword and dagger) Easy access to a melee attack, AND a ranged attack as needed, with no redraw fuss.
A wizard with a staff in one hand, and a wand in the other, and the defensive staff implement expertise thingie. They can use the staff's defensive stuff, or the wand's offensive stuff (wands usually have an encounter power embedded in them, at least for wizards).
It's more about versatility and style than Doing Twice As Much Damage. Unless you're a two-weapon ranger/tempest fighter/whirling barbarian, of course.
Some builds, like anything that wants a shield, or a Swordmage, are out of luck however.
Oh I know how it works in 4e. It just seems to me that being able to hold an object in each hand is more of a fact of life than a specialization or a chosen combat style. When I play a rogue/thief I usually just leave the second hand empty since I can draw a thrown weapon with a minor action anyway. If I have an off-hand weapon with a certain enchantment I might want in a particular situation then this is even more reason to leave it on my belt, I can draw the enchanted weapon when needed or pull out a dagger and throw it without having to drop something.
Dual wielding in 4e is essentially "A class that only needs one hand to hold their weapon can choose to also hold a second weapon in their off hand. This allows their second hand to be non-empty".
Just feels a little lack-luster.
On the RP side of things, if I want to make a character that specializes in two-weapon combat he MUST also be a proficient woodsman... that just seems like an unnecessary restriction on character development.
Or an outcast from an evil matriarchal society. ;-)
To me, being a ranger isn't about dual wielding at all. I would much rather have seen a Ranger class that could smoothly switch between a melee weapon, or even two melee weapons, and a bow or crossbow. Smoothly, mind you; they took a stab at this concept in Martial Power with one of the Styles introduced therein but fell pretty far short of the mark.
The fact that the PHB1 Ranger uses Str for melee and Dex for ranged completely eliminates any chance of a Ranger being a true melee/range hybrid. It's just too MAD. The Thief and Executioner accomplish that sort of thing much easier, but they're entirely different RP styles.
I'm not sure if giving everyone a nerfed version of Twin Strike will really accomplish anything. Without any encounter powers that let them use two weapons, people who want to dual-wield are just going to gravitate to Ranger, Fighter or Barbarian anyway.
Not quite. With the way it's worded you could use a 1h encounter/daily power and then make a nerfed basic attack with the off-hand (no stat mod bonus to damage or attack). Rather than "basic attack with both weapons" like twin strike it's "Do whatever you'd normally do with a 1h and then if you want you can try to take a gibbled swing with your off-hand".
It leaves things mostly the same but let's you trade some attack bonus on your normal attack for a shitty swing with your off-hand.
I mean, the whole theory behind Twin Strike was "Two shitty swings should be about the same as one normal swing" and that has proven to be gloriously wrong.
Twin Strike; simultaneously the best and worst power in all of 4e. It totally ruins the Ranger class for me, because any Ranger build without it feels horribly gimped by comparison.
They were cheering in my game Sunday that someone finally beat the one round nova damage record our table set, when my ranger in another guy's Dark Sun game set it.
I pointed out that they were level 12 though, and my ranger died at level 5.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
You know that rangers can start without the Nature skill, and have absolutely zero links to wilds and woodlands, right?
Exactly. Various feats and powers you take will have hunter-y names, but there's nothing stopping your ranger from being just plain ol' "guy what has two swords".
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Posts
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
So, yup, it gives you the ability to wield blades as implements.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Well I see no such thing in the Forgotten Realms Players Guide. It ends with the free hand description. Maybe it was errata'd or something. Thank you nonetheless.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Whatever tweak you made to the anti-Zed algorithm on Orokos seems to be working perfectly.
Maxing me out at 7 just to give me a tiny glimmer of hope was a master stroke.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
In combat, at least. Couple of crits on skill rolls.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Maybe this guy just isn't meant to live.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I just came up with this idea and haven't yet put that much thought into it, but here's what I'm thinking of as of right now:
* One PC is the combatant. The skill checks he makes are intended to emulate a series to fights over an extended period of time. He can gain bonuses to his skill check rolls by expending encounter and daily powers. Expending encounter powers grants a very minor benefit, but they refresh each time the combatant succeeds on a primary skill check (each success on a primary skill check represents the combatant's victory in a battle). Daily powers grant a great benefit, but they do not refresh. Whenever he fails a skill check, the combatant may spend a healing surge to negate the failure (if he fails by a great enough amount, he might need to spend multiple healing surges).
* The other PCs are trying to support the combatant from the sidelines. They may do this by shouting encouragement, attempting to get the rest of the audience to root for the character, or by trying to covertly sabotage other participants. Succeeding in these skill checks grants bonuses to the combatant's skill check rolls.
* The tournament represented by this skill challenge is not the main focus of an adventure. It should be the only thing that the party does in a given day so that the combatant PC can recuperate with an extended rest.
You didn't donate.
On a completely unrelated note, there is a donate button on the page now everyone!
(No, you cannot buy 20s, especially for your d10s, people will get suspicious.)
Unless I do something stupid like post in on the Internet in a place he's almost sure to see it, there's no way he'll figure it out.
Possibly. There's a DDI article from a year or two ago about gladiatoral matches that might be helpful for a final fight.
The best part? With training in Bluff and a face-obscuring helmet, he'll pass for your run-of-the-mill dwarf warrior until he starts manipulating shadows and making it rain fire from the sky.
Nope. Nothing suspicious here. Move along.
Doesn't this mean you can use any light/heavy blade as an implement for swordmage powers only?
Also, one question about double weapons. The quarterstaff as d12/12 or d12/d8 or d8/d8 or just d12 was only in regards to ranger/sentinel hybrid because nobody else can actually attack with both ends... right?
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Ok, I was just worried that maybe I misunderstood the way 4e handles dual weapons and dual wielding. I wish there was something between the way that 3.5 and 4 handle it, as in, actually get to attack with both weapons but more balanced.
From what I've read of 3.5 and pathfinder dual wielding is either terrible (if you don't have supporting feats and appropriate level) or fairly over powered (when you do have all the feats to negate the penalties). I'd like something in the middle.
Something like:
Dual Attack
At-Will Standard
Target: Melee
Effect: Make a melee attack against an adjacent creature (with a -2 attack penalty).
Special: You can make an Off-hand Basic Attack against an adjacent creature.
Off-hand Basic Attack
At-Will Minor
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You attack a creature with Dual Attack
Attack: vs. AC
Damage: 1[W]
Of course stuff would need to be adjusted for balance, maybe no -2 attack penalty on the main hand or maybe a bigger penalty. Maybe the off-hand attack should get Strength/2 vs. AC or something.
Unfortunately adding a basic action causes all kinds of balance issues since none of the current classes were designed with it in mind
Edit: Not sure if the Special part is needed on the Dual Attack power or if the Immediate Reaction should be removed from Off-Hand Basic Attack.
Anyone can dual wield. It's totally not a problem. A caster can dual wield implements if they want to.
You get to pick which weapon to use for your attack - that's pretty useful. Having a pair of enchantments or weapon types to choose from. Of course, it only works for classes that use one-handers and can't use a shield, so you need to bear that in mind.
Example: A thief/rogue with a handcrossbow in one hand, and a dagger in the other. (Or a sword and dagger) Easy access to a melee attack, AND a ranged attack as needed, with no redraw fuss.
A wizard with a staff in one hand, and a wand in the other, and the defensive staff implement expertise thingie. They can use the staff's defensive stuff, or the wand's offensive stuff (wands usually have an encounter power embedded in them, at least for wizards).
It's more about versatility and style than Doing Twice As Much Damage. Unless you're a two-weapon ranger/tempest fighter/whirling barbarian, of course.
Some builds, like anything that wants a shield, or a Swordmage, are out of luck however.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Oh I know how it works in 4e. It just seems to me that being able to hold an object in each hand is more of a fact of life than a specialization or a chosen combat style. When I play a rogue/thief I usually just leave the second hand empty since I can draw a thrown weapon with a minor action anyway. If I have an off-hand weapon with a certain enchantment I might want in a particular situation then this is even more reason to leave it on my belt, I can draw the enchanted weapon when needed or pull out a dagger and throw it without having to drop something.
Dual wielding in 4e is essentially "A class that only needs one hand to hold their weapon can choose to also hold a second weapon in their off hand. This allows their second hand to be non-empty".
Just feels a little lack-luster.
On the RP side of things, if I want to make a character that specializes in two-weapon combat he MUST also be a proficient woodsman... that just seems like an unnecessary restriction on character development.
It's all about flavour. You want to play a two-weapon dude, play a ranger, fighter or barbarian, and tweak the flavour to fit.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
you must unlearn...what you have learned. you're taking things too literally. just because the best class to take advantage of dual wielding is Ranger doesn't mean you literally have to be Aragorn. You can play a Ranger as whatever you want: a frontline brawler born in the depths of poverty who picks on people bigger than him, the last surviving member of his tribe who walked in from the desert to a small settlement to start a new life, a swordsman trained at the best university in Faerun by arcane masters, etc.
just because the title of the class is Ranger and they are martial doesn't mean that's what it literally has to be. you can use your imagination to make it whatever you want, that's what RP is for.
Or an outcast from an evil matriarchal society. ;-)
To me, being a ranger isn't about dual wielding at all. I would much rather have seen a Ranger class that could smoothly switch between a melee weapon, or even two melee weapons, and a bow or crossbow. Smoothly, mind you; they took a stab at this concept in Martial Power with one of the Styles introduced therein but fell pretty far short of the mark.
The fact that the PHB1 Ranger uses Str for melee and Dex for ranged completely eliminates any chance of a Ranger being a true melee/range hybrid. It's just too MAD. The Thief and Executioner accomplish that sort of thing much easier, but they're entirely different RP styles.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Not quite. With the way it's worded you could use a 1h encounter/daily power and then make a nerfed basic attack with the off-hand (no stat mod bonus to damage or attack). Rather than "basic attack with both weapons" like twin strike it's "Do whatever you'd normally do with a 1h and then if you want you can try to take a gibbled swing with your off-hand".
It leaves things mostly the same but let's you trade some attack bonus on your normal attack for a shitty swing with your off-hand.
I mean, the whole theory behind Twin Strike was "Two shitty swings should be about the same as one normal swing" and that has proven to be gloriously wrong.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I pointed out that they were level 12 though, and my ranger died at level 5.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Swordmage gone mental.
Swordmage? Bwu?
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Stance of Chaos, Hellsworn Blessing, action points, a couple criticals, free MBA, etc. etc.
Those two buffs give a net +0 hit and +1d12+2d8 fire damage per hit. Can't remember all what else was involved but it was good times for the party.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12