Isn't the state supreme court also controlled by conservatives? I thought that was part of the problem.
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Isn't the state supreme court also controlled by conservatives? I thought that was part of the problem.
They are, and the next 3 rounds of supreme court elections, which are only ever done 1 at a time during the spring election, involve the liberal justices so the conservative justices might feel extra bold and find a way to twist the knife a few times.
Isn't the state supreme court also controlled by conservatives? I thought that was part of the problem.
Which is why I only said likely. When North Carolina did the same thing the Court there killed most of it for violating the Separation of Powers doctrine in the State Constitution. Depending on how hackish partisan the Wisconsin Court is...
Catching up on this thread pains me greatly. My mother's side of the family has lived in Wisconsin since the 1870s, and have been very pro-union and liberal for that entire time. What a damn farce, and not even one of those funny ones.
Incoming Gov. Tony Evers signaled Wednesday he would not go along with parts of lame-duck laws that curb his powers, suggesting that GOP lawmakers or their supporters would have to sue him over the issue.
Incoming Gov. Tony Evers signaled Wednesday he would not go along with parts of lame-duck laws that curb his powers, suggesting that GOP lawmakers or their supporters would have to sue him over the issue.
The legislature has passed their law, now let them enforce it?
Why the hell not. The Republicans already broke Wisconsin's democracy, Evers is just making it explicit.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Incoming Gov. Tony Evers signaled Wednesday he would not go along with parts of lame-duck laws that curb his powers, suggesting that GOP lawmakers or their supporters would have to sue him over the issue.
Glad to see someone play hardball with the fascists
Is the WI supreme Court likely to support that legal argument?
I guess the option there would be let the courts enforce it? I mean if the whole thing is a non functional farce we could be in for some lol worthy times.
Evers essentially did this as State Superintendent and won in the courts, but I do not like the idea of the governor ignoring laws. As long as he acquiesces to the courts in the event he loses a lawsuit I will be ok with this.
I am not happy about this situation at all, and I put the blame entirely on the republicans.
Evers essentially did this as State Superintendent and won in the courts, but I do not like the idea of the governor ignoring laws. As long as he acquiesces to the courts in the event he loses a lawsuit I will be ok with this.
I am not happy about this situation at all, and I put the blame entirely on the republicans.
Given the shady stuff the legislature has been doing for years I am glad to see Evers shift the onus of enforcing this nonsense back on them. The legislature burned any good will it may have had long ago if they want to do things of marginal constitutionality put the burden of proving that it is constitutional on them.
Is the WI supreme Court likely to support that legal argument?
North Carolina mostly did when the Republicans tried something similar last election. Not sure about WI since it's different Jurists and a different Constitution, but it's the best possible approach he can take. Also the worst possible one. Because :rotate:
Is the WI supreme Court likely to support that legal argument?
The court as it is now will never rule in Evers favor if they can help it. There is a supreme court election in April, between a liberal leaning judge and Walkers former chief counsel. Depending on how that goes it could have a major impact in the way the justices rule.
At issue was a provision of the state constitution that says 'the supervision of public instruction shall be vested in a state superintendent and such other officers as the Legislature shall direct.'
That means others can have a say in education, Walker argued. But Justice Michael Gableman wrote in the lead opinion that the 'other officers' who can have a voice in education must be education officials, rather than the governor or his administration secretary.
'The Legislature must vest the supervision of public instruction in officers over whom the (superintendent) has 'oversight and charge with the power of direction,' or by definition he is no longer the superintendent of public instruction,' he wrote.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government
Since the state congress is elected that'd be an extremely hard sell.
A state could theoretically have no governor at all without going afoul of that clause.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
The argument is that it is not a republican form of government if one side removes power from offices won by the other side.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I enjoy this statement by Robin Vos (GOP Assembly Speaker according to the article, I know nothing about WI politics, so I don't know what that means):
Whether you agree with them or not, we all have to follow state laws until they’re changed or a court find them unconstitutional. I hope Governor-elect Evers will reconsider his statement and set an example for the rest of the state.
So.
1) Follow the law, so it won't get challenged.
2) Only stop following the law if they're changed or the court finds them unconstitutional.
3) Court can never find them unconstitutional if they're never challenged.
4) Law will never be changed if the people who are voted into power have the power to change said laws taken away before they can act.
5) If you continue to have a problem with the law, return to: 1)
:rotate:
I continue to be unsure of whether or not politicians that say things like "follow the law until/unless courts overturn it" have any actual idea of how laws end up in front of courts in the first place.
Like. Do they think courts just review laws of their own volition and then hand down decisions without having cases presented to them?
Or do they know how it works, and they just trust their constituents to be so uninformed as to how the legal system and government works to just nod their head and say "yeah! obey the law!"?
I'm asking of they're all cynics or idiots? <whynotboth.gif>
It doesn't help that the public as a whole has the memory span of a fruit fly, and trying to explain to many how frequently really really shitty laws are brand new and weren't always that way, and maybe the people who are telling you to follow the shitty law were the ones to pass the law, and they have a vested interest in you not considering it any deeper than that; is near impossible.
I'm from Michigan. While I haven't lived there in twenty years, I still have an affinity for the state and still have many friends there. When Snyder put emergency managers over Detroit, Flint and other cities, a lot of people just viewed it as "oh, that's just how it works I guess", combined with many of the cities having had a pretty shitty go for decades, and while there was anger, it didn't go much further than that. Trying to get people to understand that it only worked that way because Snyder had signed a law that was forced through despite the public voting against it, was virtually impossible. Supporters would just point out that the state already had a law on the books for such things, completely ignoring how draconian the updated law was and how it stripped local governments of virtually any option to resist (incidentally, why the public voted against the measure to begin with!). Then shit like the the Flint water crisis happen (for fucks sake people, what has happened in, and to, Flint, over the past 50 years, should be a national emergency and never stop being top story news; it is literally worse there than large swaths of what would be considered "third world" by textbook definitions) and then people want to do something, well after when they should have been acting to prevent corrupt and asshole politicians from taking away their democratic rights and responsibilities.
I wish social media, and the media in general, had been more aware (or maybe just cared, I know it was mentioned, and known) of what was happening in places in Michigan, that we're now seeing kicked into high gear in places like Wisconsin, Florida, to a far lesser degree here in Utah (with the redistricting and medical marijuana ballot initiatives that the state legislature are doing everything in their power to circumvent, plus many local ballot measures being actively screwed over in different cities) and elsewhere. I wish there had been work to stop the terrible laws before they were actually acted on, when it was too late to do anything to prevent the harm that they could (and did) do. Hopefully things like Evers saying "fuck you, sue me", and local governments in Florida doing the same on votes for felons, actually work; but maybe just as importantly, hopefully the fact that more people are being made aware that their votes are being taken from them and their elected officials are actively giving them the finger, makes it harder for those people to continue their crusade against democracy.
Newly created restrictions on early voting and other voting-related measures that were part of lame-duck legislation signed in December by outgoing Gov. Scott Walker violate a federal court order issued in 2016 that voided similar restrictions, a federal judge ruled Thursday.
U.S. District Judge James Peterson, in a five-page ruling, agreed to issue an order enforcing injunctions against time limits for in-person absentee voting, restrictions on the use of student identification cards for voting and time limits on the validity of temporary identification cards issued under a process called the ID Petition Process.
"This is not a close question," Peterson wrote. "The three challenged provisions are clearly inconsistent with the injunctions that the court has issued in this case."
The judge's response is priceless - "what part of 'no' do you geese not understand?"
I ZimbraWorst song, played on ugliest guitarRegistered Userregular
Hey gang, remember those thousands and thousands of Foxconn jobs we were supposed to get? Yeah, not so much anymore:
Foxconn Technology Group is reconsidering plans to make advanced liquid crystal display panels at a $10 billion Wisconsin campus, and said it intends to hire mostly engineers and researchers rather than the manufacturing workforce the project originally promised.
Foxconn, which received controversial state and local incentives for the project, initially planned to manufacture advanced large screen displays for TVs and other consumer and professional products at the facility, which is under construction. It later said it would build smaller LCD screens instead.
Now, those plans may be scaled back or even shelved, Louis Woo, special assistant to Foxconn Chief Executive Terry Gou, told Reuters. He said the company was still evaluating options for Wisconsin, but cited the steep cost of making advanced TV screens in the United States, where labor expenses are comparatively high.
...
Earlier this month, Foxconn, a major supplier to Apple Inc., reiterated its intention to create 13,000 jobs in Wisconsin, but said it had slowed its pace of hiring. The company initially said it expected to employ about 5,200 people by the end of 2020; a company source said that figure now looks likely to be closer to 1,000 workers.
I can't believe this obvious boondoggle didn't work out. I wonder how the people whose houses got eminent domained for this feel about it being a glorified office park now?
What a shocking and unexpected development! I look forward to hearing the conservative complaints that it was Tony Evers and his liberal agenda that tanked this deal and the state's economy for the rest of my life.
Hey gang, remember those thousands and thousands of Foxconn jobs we were supposed to get? Yeah, not so much anymore:
Foxconn Technology Group is reconsidering plans to make advanced liquid crystal display panels at a $10 billion Wisconsin campus, and said it intends to hire mostly engineers and researchers rather than the manufacturing workforce the project originally promised.
Foxconn, which received controversial state and local incentives for the project, initially planned to manufacture advanced large screen displays for TVs and other consumer and professional products at the facility, which is under construction. It later said it would build smaller LCD screens instead.
Now, those plans may be scaled back or even shelved, Louis Woo, special assistant to Foxconn Chief Executive Terry Gou, told Reuters. He said the company was still evaluating options for Wisconsin, but cited the steep cost of making advanced TV screens in the United States, where labor expenses are comparatively high.
...
Earlier this month, Foxconn, a major supplier to Apple Inc., reiterated its intention to create 13,000 jobs in Wisconsin, but said it had slowed its pace of hiring. The company initially said it expected to employ about 5,200 people by the end of 2020; a company source said that figure now looks likely to be closer to 1,000 workers.
I can't believe this obvious boondoggle didn't work out. I wonder how the people whose houses got eminent domained for this feel about it being a glorified office park now?
Here is my shocked face oh wait no I am not shocked at all. There never was any chance of the original jobs stuff coming through they were just grifting and the GOP ate it up hook line and sinker as always.
The development comes after the Taiwanese manufacturer fell short of its job creation quota in 2018 and failed to qualify for any tax incentives. The company in 2018 created 178 direct, full-time jobs, Woo wrote in a letter to Mark Hogan, CEO of the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation, which helped craft the tax incentive deal.
The 2018 jobs figure is short of the 260 full-time jobs required under the state's contract with the company, meaning Foxconn will not receive any tax incentives it could have qualified for this year.
The contract with Foxconn set a goal of 1,040 jobs for 2018 to be eligible for $9.5 million in job creation tax credits. The company would be able to claim those tax credits in future years if it exceeds the jobs target for any verification period.
They did so bad that they don't even qualify for the incentives that had a hand in ending Walker's tenure.
The bad news though, they still get a good chunk of the "investment" tax incentives
Foxconn will still be eligible for nearly $1.5 billion in job creation credits through the year 2032. That doesn't include capital investment tax credits, which Foxconn will be eligible for at the end of 2019. The company could receive up to $1.35 billion in such credits by the end of 2025 under the contract. In total, state tax incentives for capital investment and job creation amount to about $2.85 billion.
Hey gang, remember those thousands and thousands of Foxconn jobs we were supposed to get? Yeah, not so much anymore:
Foxconn Technology Group is reconsidering plans to make advanced liquid crystal display panels at a $10 billion Wisconsin campus, and said it intends to hire mostly engineers and researchers rather than the manufacturing workforce the project originally promised.
Foxconn, which received controversial state and local incentives for the project, initially planned to manufacture advanced large screen displays for TVs and other consumer and professional products at the facility, which is under construction. It later said it would build smaller LCD screens instead.
Now, those plans may be scaled back or even shelved, Louis Woo, special assistant to Foxconn Chief Executive Terry Gou, told Reuters. He said the company was still evaluating options for Wisconsin, but cited the steep cost of making advanced TV screens in the United States, where labor expenses are comparatively high.
...
Earlier this month, Foxconn, a major supplier to Apple Inc., reiterated its intention to create 13,000 jobs in Wisconsin, but said it had slowed its pace of hiring. The company initially said it expected to employ about 5,200 people by the end of 2020; a company source said that figure now looks likely to be closer to 1,000 workers.
I can't believe this obvious boondoggle didn't work out. I wonder how the people whose houses got eminent domained for this feel about it being a glorified office park now?
I've already gotten "Because a democrat was elected, Foxconn bailed, so it's all Evers' fault"
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They are, and the next 3 rounds of supreme court elections, which are only ever done 1 at a time during the spring election, involve the liberal justices so the conservative justices might feel extra bold and find a way to twist the knife a few times.
Which is why I only said likely. When North Carolina did the same thing the Court there killed most of it for violating the Separation of Powers doctrine in the State Constitution. Depending on how hackish partisan the Wisconsin Court is...
The legislature has passed their law, now let them enforce it?
Why the hell not. The Republicans already broke Wisconsin's democracy, Evers is just making it explicit.
Glad to see someone play hardball with the fascists
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Wiki's not clear, but I'm pretty sure that a majority of the court is Republican, so... no.
I guess the option there would be let the courts enforce it? I mean if the whole thing is a non functional farce we could be in for some lol worthy times.
I am not happy about this situation at all, and I put the blame entirely on the republicans.
Given the shady stuff the legislature has been doing for years I am glad to see Evers shift the onus of enforcing this nonsense back on them. The legislature burned any good will it may have had long ago if they want to do things of marginal constitutionality put the burden of proving that it is constitutional on them.
North Carolina mostly did when the Republicans tried something similar last election. Not sure about WI since it's different Jurists and a different Constitution, but it's the best possible approach he can take. Also the worst possible one. Because :rotate:
The court as it is now will never rule in Evers favor if they can help it. There is a supreme court election in April, between a liberal leaning judge and Walkers former chief counsel. Depending on how that goes it could have a major impact in the way the justices rule.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/18/state-supreme-court-upholds-education-chiefs-independence/84964230/
So they're not beyond reason.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Er no, Wisconsin has its own Constitution which is where this separation of state powers issue lies
Unless they try to go with this argument:
Since the state congress is elected that'd be an extremely hard sell.
A state could theoretically have no governor at all without going afoul of that clause.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
No, see, it says Republican. So we have to remove Evers from the Governorship because he's not a Republican.
- The Wisconsin Supreme Court.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
So.
1) Follow the law, so it won't get challenged.
2) Only stop following the law if they're changed or the court finds them unconstitutional.
3) Court can never find them unconstitutional if they're never challenged.
4) Law will never be changed if the people who are voted into power have the power to change said laws taken away before they can act.
5) If you continue to have a problem with the law, return to: 1)
:rotate:
I continue to be unsure of whether or not politicians that say things like "follow the law until/unless courts overturn it" have any actual idea of how laws end up in front of courts in the first place.
Like. Do they think courts just review laws of their own volition and then hand down decisions without having cases presented to them?
Or do they know how it works, and they just trust their constituents to be so uninformed as to how the legal system and government works to just nod their head and say "yeah! obey the law!"?
I'm asking of they're all cynics or idiots? <whynotboth.gif>
It doesn't help that the public as a whole has the memory span of a fruit fly, and trying to explain to many how frequently really really shitty laws are brand new and weren't always that way, and maybe the people who are telling you to follow the shitty law were the ones to pass the law, and they have a vested interest in you not considering it any deeper than that; is near impossible.
I'm from Michigan. While I haven't lived there in twenty years, I still have an affinity for the state and still have many friends there. When Snyder put emergency managers over Detroit, Flint and other cities, a lot of people just viewed it as "oh, that's just how it works I guess", combined with many of the cities having had a pretty shitty go for decades, and while there was anger, it didn't go much further than that. Trying to get people to understand that it only worked that way because Snyder had signed a law that was forced through despite the public voting against it, was virtually impossible. Supporters would just point out that the state already had a law on the books for such things, completely ignoring how draconian the updated law was and how it stripped local governments of virtually any option to resist (incidentally, why the public voted against the measure to begin with!). Then shit like the the Flint water crisis happen (for fucks sake people, what has happened in, and to, Flint, over the past 50 years, should be a national emergency and never stop being top story news; it is literally worse there than large swaths of what would be considered "third world" by textbook definitions) and then people want to do something, well after when they should have been acting to prevent corrupt and asshole politicians from taking away their democratic rights and responsibilities.
I wish social media, and the media in general, had been more aware (or maybe just cared, I know it was mentioned, and known) of what was happening in places in Michigan, that we're now seeing kicked into high gear in places like Wisconsin, Florida, to a far lesser degree here in Utah (with the redistricting and medical marijuana ballot initiatives that the state legislature are doing everything in their power to circumvent, plus many local ballot measures being actively screwed over in different cities) and elsewhere. I wish there had been work to stop the terrible laws before they were actually acted on, when it was too late to do anything to prevent the harm that they could (and did) do. Hopefully things like Evers saying "fuck you, sue me", and local governments in Florida doing the same on votes for felons, actually work; but maybe just as importantly, hopefully the fact that more people are being made aware that their votes are being taken from them and their elected officials are actively giving them the finger, makes it harder for those people to continue their crusade against democracy.
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The judge's response is priceless - "what part of 'no' do you geese not understand?"
I can't believe this obvious boondoggle didn't work out. I wonder how the people whose houses got eminent domained for this feel about it being a glorified office park now?
Here is my shocked face oh wait no I am not shocked at all. There never was any chance of the original jobs stuff coming through they were just grifting and the GOP ate it up hook line and sinker as always.
that math is poor.
If they dems can't use this as a big hammer to the GOP state legislature that pushed this garbage through then they are not even trying.
It's pretty rich.
If you assume fair maps, sure.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/foxconn-changes-focus-of-massive-wisconsin-project/article_42c67a52-5c4e-5093-a5fa-2db5dfd95dc8.html
They did so bad that they don't even qualify for the incentives that had a hand in ending Walker's tenure.
The bad news though, they still get a good chunk of the "investment" tax incentives
I've already gotten "Because a democrat was elected, Foxconn bailed, so it's all Evers' fault"
the head councilman of the town that did this deal sounded like a spectacular douchebag
Yeah, like, it literally doesn't matter what happens. The Democrats can't win control because of the maps. Wisconsin is not a democracy anymore.
What's the population of that town, like, a few thousand? Local politics is a real shitshow in general but especially in small communities.