The thing that's most frustrating about this is this is a simple fucking bill to pass. Raise the debt ceiling, argue the budget when the budget is on the table.
This is a god damned engineered situation. There's no reason for it, absolutely none.
No I don't.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
I like how Moodys is saying that neither bills, on either side, are good; and will be bad for us and stuff.
The thing that's most frustrating about this is this is a simple fucking bill to pass. Raise the debt ceiling, argue the budget when the budget is on the table.
This is a god damned engineered situation. There's no reason for it, absolutely none.
Isn't it hilarious?
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
To be fair letting people die is a completely viable option. The government was not designed to take care of people from cradle to grave, nor does a majority of voters feel everyone should be taken care of all the time. The social safety nets we have in place are something we choose to have, not something we are required to have. It is fully within the governments power to stop taking care of people through various welfare programs, and in times of fiscal crisis such programs may have to be addressed. It should definitely get interesting of welfare checks do not arrive on time.
I may need to be on suicide watch or something come Tuesday.
Boehner might as well just come to my house and personally kick me in the junk.
Cheer up man. I just had to leave school with only 6 months left to go because of my finances (which took a turn for the worse in '08 and left me with waaay too much debt). Now I'm looking into bankruptcy while living with my parents who are considering the same thing. I'm 26 years old, unemployed at the moment (living in the middle of fucking nowhere), and have nothing to show for my education.
But you know what? I'm still looking on the upside of things. Once employed, it'll take me a year to save up enough money to get back to school and get a reliable job. After that, things should be smooth sailing. Even if you can't get out of the walmart situation, it could be worse. And even if this ends up fucking up your plans, work towards saving up so that when the goverment get it's act together you can take out less loans. This will be temporary, and you have control over how you handle it.
To be fair letting people die is a completely viable option. The government was not designed to take care of people from cradle to grave, nor does a majority of voters feel everyone should be taken care of all the time. The social safety nets we have in place are something we choose to have, not something we are required to have. It is fully within the governments power to stop taking care of people through various welfare programs, and in times of fiscal crisis such programs may have to be addressed. It should definitely get interesting of welfare checks do not arrive on time.
It's fully within my power to get a gun and rob the nearest liquor store. Is that a good idea, why or why not, and explain your reasoning.
Cheer up man. I just had to leave school with only 6 months left to go because of my finances (which took a turn for the worse in '08 and left me with waaay too much debt). Now I'm looking into bankruptcy while living with my parents who are considering the same thing. I'm 26 years old, unemployed at the moment (living in the middle of fucking nowhere), and have nothing to show for my education.
But you know what? I'm still looking on the upside of things. Once employed, it'll take me a year to save up enough money to get back to school and get a reliable job. After that, things should be smooth sailing. Even if you can't get out of the walmart situation, it could be worse. And even if this ends up fucking up your plans, work towards saving up so that when the goverment get it's act together you can take out less loans. This will be temporary, and you have control over how you handle it.
Honestly, if your finances are that bad, you may be better off not declaring bankruptcy and just letting them try to come after whatever you have, assuming you don't have much they can take. I did something similar, and had about $3K worth of outstanding debt on my credit record. Once I paid that stuff off, it got removed from my credit report, and now it's closer to a neutral rating. Bankruptcy is, by comparison, a lot fucking harder to get rid of.
I, too, hope some geese decide to at least start using lube while screwing us for the sake of my education. Granted, I already have a BA, but it's kinda no use without the teaching certificate I have to take masters level classes for (though, it's questionable if my university would even stay open if federal funding disappeared. It'd be a toss-up)
To be fair letting people die is a completely viable option. The government was not designed to take care of people from cradle to grave, nor does a majority of voters feel everyone should be taken care of all the time.
Actually, strong majorities of all three major political divisions oppose cutting Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
It is fully within the governments power to stop taking care of people through various welfare programs, and in times of fiscal crisis such programs may have to be addressed.
Not when the crisis is created based on lies, and not when the people who need the help most are in most dire straits. So much revenue would come in if we simply stopped giving a handjob to the wealthy, if they paid their fair share, like under Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, and Eisenhower.
The Federal Reserve actually secretly bailed out companies and countries to the tune of $16 Trillion at a minimum, but it appears that this has little to no impact on the national debt or debt ceiling, although it is mind bogglingly insane.
To be fair letting people die is a completely viable option. The government was not designed to take care of people from cradle to grave, nor does a majority of voters feel everyone should be taken care of all the time. The social safety nets we have in place are something we choose to have, not something we are required to have. It is fully within the governments power to stop taking care of people through various welfare programs, and in times of fiscal crisis such programs may have to be addressed. It should definitely get interesting of welfare checks do not arrive on time.
Oh, where to start?
The current social safety net is not anywhere close to taking care of people from the cradle to the grave.
The government was also not designed to have an Air Force, or allow black folks or women to vote. Oddly enough attempting to divine the intent of a motley assortment of 18th Century Americans with vastly divergent ideas about governance is a pretty shitty way to decide what a 21st Century American government should or shouldn't provide.
Most importantly, this "fiscal crisis" was purely invented by the far right. The only "need" to address social welfare programs in the short term is to protect them from being gutted by economic terrorists and to make sure they properly help ameliorate the current economic downturn.
So, no, letting people die is not a viable option unless you're a fucking sociopath.
To be fair letting people die is a completely viable option. The government was not designed to take care of people from cradle to grave, nor does a majority of voters feel everyone should be taken care of all the time. The social safety nets we have in place are something we choose to have, not something we are required to have. It is fully within the governments power to stop taking care of people through various welfare programs, and in times of fiscal crisis such programs may have to be addressed. It should definitely get interesting of welfare checks do not arrive on time.
Oh, where to start?
The current social safety net is not anywhere close to taking care of people from the cradle to the grave.
The government was also not designed to have an Air Force, or allow black folks or women to vote. Oddly enough attempting to divine the intent of a motley assortment of 18th Century Americans with vastly divergent ideas about governance is a pretty shitty way to decide what a 21st Century American government should or shouldn't provide.
Most importantly, this "fiscal crisis" was purely invented by the far right. The only "need" to address social welfare programs in the short term is to protect them from being gutted by economic terrorists and to make sure they properly help ameliorate the current economic downturn.
So, no, letting people die is not a viable option unless you're a fucking sociopath.
Well put sir.
Don't forget that doing shit this way is far cheaper than forcing people into crime by throwing them into poverty. Crimes that no one will be willing to prosecute, until Robber Barons reappear.
Cheer up man. I just had to leave school with only 6 months left to go because of my finances (which took a turn for the worse in '08 and left me with waaay too much debt). Now I'm looking into bankruptcy while living with my parents who are considering the same thing. I'm 26 years old, unemployed at the moment (living in the middle of fucking nowhere), and have nothing to show for my education.
But you know what? I'm still looking on the upside of things. Once employed, it'll take me a year to save up enough money to get back to school and get a reliable job. After that, things should be smooth sailing. Even if you can't get out of the walmart situation, it could be worse. And even if this ends up fucking up your plans, work towards saving up so that when the goverment get it's act together you can take out less loans. This will be temporary, and you have control over how you handle it.
Honestly, if your finances are that bad, you may be better off not declaring bankruptcy and just letting them try to come after whatever you have, assuming you don't have much they can take. I did something similar, and had about $3K worth of outstanding debt on my credit record. Once I paid that stuff off, it got removed from my credit report, and now it's closer to a neutral rating. Bankruptcy is, by comparison, a lot fucking harder to get rid of.
I'm at the light at the end of the tunnel too. In a few months I will graduate and commission. How is that supposed to happen if there's no more military ROTC...or college for that matter?
I got my final loan, so I'm good. I have money in savings for a years worth of tuition plus expenses. I have no idea where to put it.
I may need to be on suicide watch or something come Tuesday.
Boehner might as well just come to my house and personally kick me in the junk.
Cheer up man. I just had to leave school with only 6 months left to go because of my finances (which took a turn for the worse in '08 and left me with waaay too much debt). Now I'm looking into bankruptcy while living with my parents who are considering the same thing. I'm 26 years old, unemployed at the moment (living in the middle of fucking nowhere), and have nothing to show for my education.
But you know what? I'm still looking on the upside of things. Once employed, it'll take me a year to save up enough money to get back to school and get a reliable job. After that, things should be smooth sailing. Even if you can't get out of the walmart situation, it could be worse. And even if this ends up fucking up your plans, work towards saving up so that when the goverment get it's act together you can take out less loans. This will be temporary, and you have control over how you handle it.
I mean, it's not the end of the world. But it's very hard not to be depressed when, after finally getting my shit together, some assholes in DC may end up sinking it at the last minute. I'll be the first to admit that I'll be extremely fortunate if, should we end up defaulting, the worst that happens to me is that I remain on my personal status quo.
So I shouldn't be depressed. But I will be angry. Very very angry.
Well if you wanna play a gamblin game wait till the money market is at a low point and throw all your eggs into that basket
What the hell is the ticker for the Norweigian Crown? I'm wrestling with my trading account at the moment. I'll be selling off my Nintendo stock. I'll try again when Nintendo decides they like making games again. It's a shame really. I liked the Wii U. But that's not the problem at the moment.
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You guys should read the comments section of the Houston Chronicle. It's hilarious.
No to Obama's reckless spending for his union thugs and free-loaders including illegal aliens.
He wants to destroy America just like to those crazy loonies in California that has completely destroy that once prosperous state in the name of liberalism. The CA governor just signed a law pretty much given free college eduction to illegals.
Punish the hard-working citizens and reward the lazy and the illegals....that is the Obama way!!!
DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
This is a good one too.
As a Tea Party member, I am proud of making a difference in controlling our government and holding them accountable for the failed Obama's policies of the last 3 years. We basically kicked out all the corrupt Democrats in 2010 who shoved the ObamaCare down and recklessly spent trillions on bailing out Wall Street bankers and stupid stimulus programs such as Cash for Clunkers.
For those of you who fear the Tea Party...get a job and pay your FAIR share of taxes!
This situation is just so disgusting. My biggest fear (well, political fear - not the obvious economic one) of this whole thing is that the democrats will surrender control of the narrative. You know how that would go: if democrats don't give, the republicans get to blame all the ensuing turmoil on the president and democrats for not compromising (a lie, but hardly anyone actually gets called out on lies anymore). If the democrats do give in (assuming republicans decided to actually accept what they themselves demanded), not only does it set a horrifying precedent for our politics, but it potentially fucks over hundreds of thousands of our people ANYWAY. If Obama uses the 14th and triggers impeachment proceedings, even if it's unlikely he'd be convicted, there's no way the republicans would let the juiciness of a black man being pardoned by "liberal elites" slip by in the election.
And ultimately? If this comes down the the 11th hour, I think the democrats and Obama will blink. For all the talk of "don't call my bluff," I think Obama cares about the future of this country more than being re-elected. I believe he's a man with an essential human decency... and the republicans will hang him with it.
Well if you wanna play a gamblin game wait till the money market is at a low point and throw all your eggs into that basket
What the hell is the ticker for the Norweigian Crown? I'm wrestling with my trading account at the moment. I'll be selling off my Nintendo stock. I'll try again when Nintendo decides they like making games again. It's a shame really. I liked the Wii U. But that's not the problem at the moment.
Considering the Wii's sales numbers I thought Nintendo stock would have been good lately
I WAS sorry to see Gary Johnson, the agreeably modest former governor of New Mexico, and Republican presidential candidate, repeating one of the absurder Republican talking points. He says:
"Having served as a Republican governor in a Democrat state with a Democrat legislature, I understand the challenge of divided government. I would have voted against the House-passed debt limit bill; it simply does not cut enough spending. But at least the Republican House came up with something and voted on it.
The President and the Senate, on the other hand, have done nothing except hold news conferences and lay blame on everyone from the Tea Party to George W. Bush. 'We don't know what we want, but this isn't it' is not the approach to leadership the American people want and deserve. The federal budget can be balanced, and it can be balanced now, if only our elected leaders in Washington would actually show some courage and commitment to putting our financial house in order."
Er, hang on. The "something" the Republican House has come up with is a non-solution (since the Senate cannot buy it) to a problem entirely of the Republicans' own making. The reason for this crisis is that instead of just raising the debt ceiling in the customary way so that the government can pay the bills Congress has already run up, the Republicans decided to point a pistol at the American economy and threaten to pull the trigger if they did not get the spending cuts they wanted.
Sure, America needs to tackle its burgeoning entitlement programmes. But not now, when cutting spending will make an insipid recovery worse, and more especially not like this, hijacking a routine procedure and using it to bring the country to the edge of downgrading or default. At least the Republicans have done something? Gimme a break.
I WAS sorry to see Gary Johnson, the agreeably modest former governor of New Mexico, and Republican presidential candidate, repeating one of the absurder Republican talking points. He says:
"Having served as a Republican governor in a Democrat state with a Democrat legislature, I understand the challenge of divided government. I would have voted against the House-passed debt limit bill; it simply does not cut enough spending. But at least the Republican House came up with something and voted on it.
The President and the Senate, on the other hand, have done nothing except hold news conferences and lay blame on everyone from the Tea Party to George W. Bush. 'We don't know what we want, but this isn't it' is not the approach to leadership the American people want and deserve. The federal budget can be balanced, and it can be balanced now, if only our elected leaders in Washington would actually show some courage and commitment to putting our financial house in order."
Er, hang on. The "something" the Republican House has come up with is a non-solution (since the Senate cannot buy it) to a problem entirely of the Republicans' own making. The reason for this crisis is that instead of just raising the debt ceiling in the customary way so that the government can pay the bills Congress has already run up, the Republicans decided to point a pistol at the American economy and threaten to pull the trigger if they did not get the spending cuts they wanted.
Sure, America needs to tackle its burgeoning entitlement programmes. But not now, when cutting spending will make an insipid recovery worse, and more especially not like this, hijacking a routine procedure and using it to bring the country to the edge of downgrading or default. At least the Republicans have done something? Gimme a break.
Like what? What have they done? The "bill" Boehner came up with is the equivalence of saying "Yeah, I still have no job and I didn't apply for anything today either. But I did clean my room".
Edit (I got trigger happy): Doing something is not good enough. Do something serious and realistic.
I don't think anyone would consider war with the US as a realistic means of collecting a debt. Apart from raiding Fort Knox, I'm not even sure what they could hope to gain from it.
So, I think the happy thought that we can all take away from this is that there won't be a nuclear war as a direct result. That's gotta count for something, right?
Only because we have nukes(and might use them). Otherwise we have at least 50 trillion in nominal assets (IIRC the current state of our capital stock). So yea, invasion and confiscation is definitely a way to settle debts.
I don't see how the trillion dollar coin option could produce any inflation. It would all go to pay the fed, and effectively it's just a legal loophole- instead of increasing the debt ceiling, we decrease the amount of debt on the books. The fed wouldn't spend any more money, so it would never go into circulation. Where's the inflation going to come from?
It does create new money (unless the fed offsets with contractionary monetary policy). Normally when we pay obligations and don't have the money to do so we borrow money, this money is removed from the public at the same time we spend, putting it back in. But if we just make a new coin and spend that then we have increased the amount of money by spending, but not decreased it by taking in a loan for the same amount. Hence inflationary pressures.
Pretty accurate. The reason that Boehner wants the short timetable is so that he can hammer Obama with it before the election. Obama wants the long time table so that when the brinksmanship comes again Obama doesn't have to worry about the inevitable impeachment proceedings killing his chance of getting re-elected. (Obama is reasonably sure we can hold onto the senate in 2012 i guess)
I've been keeping informed by friends plugged into Japan and China, and they are pretty sure that Asia is poised to completely end American global hegemony because of this issue, as soon as it won;t completely fuck them over.
Can you blame them? Shit, if I were them I would be planning the same thing. It is one thing to play second fiddle to a responsible person that everyone can get rich under. It is another thing to sit behind a mad man that might bring the whole system down around you. Simple power can't displace the competent ruler, he is protected by those who won't gain much but will risk pain in taking down the king. It takes a mad man to force the hand of those under him.
We are currently that mad man.
Re: That Fed thing. You're confused, those numbers are aggregate of loans. Some of those loans were monthly, some of them were overnight. So if you loaned $10b monthly to someone for 12 months it would show up as $120b of loans, since it would have been $10b for one month 12 times. If you loaned someone $10b overnight for a year it would show up as 3.65 trillion dollars in loans. This is explained on the page above
For example, an overnightPDCF loan of $10 billion that was renewed daily at the same level for 30business days would result in an aggregate amount borrowed of $300billion although the institution, in effect, borrowed only $10 billion over 30
Posts
Fixed.
Won't.
color me not surprised.
But yeah, "won't" is accurate.
This is a god damned engineered situation. There's no reason for it, absolutely none.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/29/news/economy/debt_ceiling_moodys/index.htm
Isn't it hilarious?
Boehner might as well just come to my house and personally kick me in the junk.
It's a fair assessment of the situation. At this point if your a rating agency and your not looking at downgrading the US, your living in fairyland.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Too much work for him
Cheer up man. I just had to leave school with only 6 months left to go because of my finances (which took a turn for the worse in '08 and left me with waaay too much debt). Now I'm looking into bankruptcy while living with my parents who are considering the same thing. I'm 26 years old, unemployed at the moment (living in the middle of fucking nowhere), and have nothing to show for my education.
But you know what? I'm still looking on the upside of things. Once employed, it'll take me a year to save up enough money to get back to school and get a reliable job. After that, things should be smooth sailing. Even if you can't get out of the walmart situation, it could be worse. And even if this ends up fucking up your plans, work towards saving up so that when the goverment get it's act together you can take out less loans. This will be temporary, and you have control over how you handle it.
It's fully within my power to get a gun and rob the nearest liquor store. Is that a good idea, why or why not, and explain your reasoning.
Honestly, if your finances are that bad, you may be better off not declaring bankruptcy and just letting them try to come after whatever you have, assuming you don't have much they can take. I did something similar, and had about $3K worth of outstanding debt on my credit record. Once I paid that stuff off, it got removed from my credit report, and now it's closer to a neutral rating. Bankruptcy is, by comparison, a lot fucking harder to get rid of.
Not when the crisis is created based on lies, and not when the people who need the help most are in most dire straits. So much revenue would come in if we simply stopped giving a handjob to the wealthy, if they paid their fair share, like under Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, and Eisenhower.
Hmmmm... this shit is fucked.
check page 131.
The Federal Reserve actually secretly bailed out companies and countries to the tune of $16 Trillion at a minimum, but it appears that this has little to no impact on the national debt or debt ceiling, although it is mind bogglingly insane.
Oh, where to start?
The current social safety net is not anywhere close to taking care of people from the cradle to the grave.
The government was also not designed to have an Air Force, or allow black folks or women to vote. Oddly enough attempting to divine the intent of a motley assortment of 18th Century Americans with vastly divergent ideas about governance is a pretty shitty way to decide what a 21st Century American government should or shouldn't provide.
Most importantly, this "fiscal crisis" was purely invented by the far right. The only "need" to address social welfare programs in the short term is to protect them from being gutted by economic terrorists and to make sure they properly help ameliorate the current economic downturn.
So, no, letting people die is not a viable option unless you're a fucking sociopath.
Well put sir.
Don't forget that doing shit this way is far cheaper than forcing people into crime by throwing them into poverty. Crimes that no one will be willing to prosecute, until Robber Barons reappear.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I'm at the light at the end of the tunnel too. In a few months I will graduate and commission. How is that supposed to happen if there's no more military ROTC...or college for that matter?
I got my final loan, so I'm good. I have money in savings for a years worth of tuition plus expenses. I have no idea where to put it.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
So I shouldn't be depressed. But I will be angry. Very very angry.
What the hell is the ticker for the Norweigian Crown? I'm wrestling with my trading account at the moment. I'll be selling off my Nintendo stock. I'll try again when Nintendo decides they like making games again. It's a shame really. I liked the Wii U. But that's not the problem at the moment.
But, I have a feeling most of us don't.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
My brother thinks the nuttiest of them are from the suburbs around here. I mean, Houston did elect a lesbian Democrat for mayor and all.
Lie to me!
And ultimately? If this comes down the the 11th hour, I think the democrats and Obama will blink. For all the talk of "don't call my bluff," I think Obama cares about the future of this country more than being re-elected. I believe he's a man with an essential human decency... and the republicans will hang him with it.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Read: God you people disgust me, I mean, why can't you just get rich like the rest of us?
Considering the Wii's sales numbers I thought Nintendo stock would have been good lately
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
That's what you read from that? Because all I see is "Go to work so your taxes pays my welfare check"
http://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2011/07/debt-ceiling-1
But at least they did something!
Like what? What have they done? The "bill" Boehner came up with is the equivalence of saying "Yeah, I still have no job and I didn't apply for anything today either. But I did clean my room".
Edit (I got trigger happy): Doing something is not good enough. Do something serious and realistic.
Only because we have nukes(and might use them). Otherwise we have at least 50 trillion in nominal assets (IIRC the current state of our capital stock). So yea, invasion and confiscation is definitely a way to settle debts.
It does create new money (unless the fed offsets with contractionary monetary policy). Normally when we pay obligations and don't have the money to do so we borrow money, this money is removed from the public at the same time we spend, putting it back in. But if we just make a new coin and spend that then we have increased the amount of money by spending, but not decreased it by taking in a loan for the same amount. Hence inflationary pressures.
Pretty accurate. The reason that Boehner wants the short timetable is so that he can hammer Obama with it before the election. Obama wants the long time table so that when the brinksmanship comes again Obama doesn't have to worry about the inevitable impeachment proceedings killing his chance of getting re-elected. (Obama is reasonably sure we can hold onto the senate in 2012 i guess)
Can you blame them? Shit, if I were them I would be planning the same thing. It is one thing to play second fiddle to a responsible person that everyone can get rich under. It is another thing to sit behind a mad man that might bring the whole system down around you. Simple power can't displace the competent ruler, he is protected by those who won't gain much but will risk pain in taking down the king. It takes a mad man to force the hand of those under him.
We are currently that mad man.
Re: That Fed thing. You're confused, those numbers are aggregate of loans. Some of those loans were monthly, some of them were overnight. So if you loaned $10b monthly to someone for 12 months it would show up as $120b of loans, since it would have been $10b for one month 12 times. If you loaned someone $10b overnight for a year it would show up as 3.65 trillion dollars in loans. This is explained on the page above