And it's bullshit to say that they cause more debt. If you feed and shelter a person, he can focus on finding a job and becoming a taxpayer. If you don't, then you may have to deal with him turning to crime. Which means stuff taken from taxpayers and possibly more money on jails and police.
This is retarded, and frankly incredibly condescending to assume that just because a person is in poverty they are pretty much going to turn criminal if you don't satisfy them.
Condescending my ass. I expect a person to do what is necessary to survive and support his or her family. That doesn't mean they enjoy crime and find it a gratifying line of work.
No, not every poor person will turn to crime. They will just live a miserable experience in the streets until they die or...I dunno. How the hell do you get out of poverty when a lot of jobs require a place of residence to employ you? Luck out and hope there's a shelter nearby?
It's called a Virtual Residence. You can now get a residential address as your official permanent address without actually living there, much how some companies have Virtual Offices, prestigious business addresses in places they actually don't exist in.
Living in poverty is hardly a solution, and your anecdotal evidence is hardly compelling. It's nice that you had a system in place to fill in the government void, but you were still in poverty.
Now what about regions that might not have their own self-made security net? What happens when a person does not step in line with this system? A good example is a poor Christian town, and you're the gay atheist.
Most people in poverty have a family, as in parents, etc..
Households are just going to have to be more crowded. If people live with their parents for much longer periods of time than just moving the fuck out at 18 I guarantee you they will likely not be strapped for cash all the fucking time if they got a decent minimum wage job.
"Decent" minimum wage jobs are harder to come by than you'd imagine. Not to mention that the minimum wage isn't really a living wage in many states.
No, but when you have cheap living space and you have parents you can share the costs of food with your personal costs start going way down.
Not everyone has parents, and even people that have parents don't necessarily have kind caring ones. I know people whose parents won't let them live with them even though they are not capable of supporting themselves.
It works in other nations, why the fuck doesn't it work here?
It "works" to slightly blunt the impact of widespread poverty.
You know what works a fuck of a lot better to blunt the impact of widespread poverty?
A social safety net.
Edit: And for fuck's sake, America has been through this. Up until the early 20th Century, the American poor had next to no social safety net to rely on other than family support and a patchwork of private charities. The quality of life for most of those poor was absolutely fucking horrific.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
And it's bullshit to say that they cause more debt. If you feed and shelter a person, he can focus on finding a job and becoming a taxpayer. If you don't, then you may have to deal with him turning to crime. Which means stuff taken from taxpayers and possibly more money on jails and police.
This is retarded, and frankly incredibly condescending to assume that just because a person is in poverty they are pretty much going to turn criminal if you don't satisfy them.
Condescending my ass. I expect a person to do what is necessary to survive and support his or her family. That doesn't mean they enjoy crime and find it a gratifying line of work.
No, not every poor person will turn to crime. They will just live a miserable experience in the streets until they die or...I dunno. How the hell do you get out of poverty when a lot of jobs require a place of residence to employ you? Luck out and hope there's a shelter nearby? Remember, there's no government to fund these things, so you just have to hope some private charity exists.
Well we could always go back to the feudal method; live in the castle you work in, hoping to save enough to one day buy a farm in the country and retire to a life of sweat and toil and bootstrap farming.
It works in other nations, why the fuck doesn't it work here?
For starters other countries have some form of universal healthcare. The largest cause of bankruptcy in america is medical bills. So in your utopia of someone living with their parents they better hope like fuck they don't get sick or need surgery or they'll be fucked for life.
I just had gall bladder surgery the bill before surgery was nine thousand dollars. Or to someone on mininum wage, just about an entire years pay check.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Living in poverty is hardly a solution, and your anecdotal evidence is hardly compelling. It's nice that you had a system in place to fill in the government void, but you were still in poverty.
Now what about regions that might not have their own self-made security net? What happens when a person does not step in line with this system? A good example is a poor Christian town, and you're the gay atheist.
Or not the right kind of Christian. Or the town just deciding that you are the gay atheist because they want to? There is no kind of people like the fundamental Christian for assigning opinions to people.
Soldiers don't get pay, and people don't get their meds and shit.
Not an ideal solution.
I don't believe in the whole "people start dying!" bullshit.
In Morocco, people living in fucking poverty. Yet no one ever seems to starve to death.
And I know because I lived there for 7 years. You know why? Because families actually support each other.
Actually no - people don't starve to death despite high urban unemployment because the Moroccan government puts over 80% of its social spending towards subsidising food (also the rural poor can supplement calories in ways urbanites can't), and due to the demographic structure there are a lot of young people for each old person draining on resources. Morocco isn't some barely developed country, the government has a very active role and if it defaulted there would be severe problems.
I agree people probably wouldn't starve to death if the US defaulted - you'll end up with fun outcomes like Argentina did though, with 30% unemployment and a million 6-12 year old children in Buenos Aires working collecting garbage so their families can make ends meet.
So should we expect any hot debt ceiling action from Congress this weekend?
I expect Sunday will be nuts on the politics shows. I'll be shocked if Obama doesn't address the nation at least once more.
And I'm really at a loss as to why the tabling of Boehners bill is anything but expected. I mean everyone said they were going to do just that. Only the republicans seem to be unable to do what people expect...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I find it hilarious that Angry Boid is actually defending the idea that we should all live in poverty. Like, seriously? You think that's a good outcome?
edit- or i was just trolled. Good show, sir.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
So should we expect any hot debt ceiling action from Congress this weekend?
Some silly geese in the Senate GOP are filibustering the Reid "compromise" so there won't be a vote on it until Sunday at the earliest, barring some unexpected turn of events.
Then it has to pass the Senate, and then pass through the mouth of madness formerly known as the House.
So should we expect any hot debt ceiling action from Congress this weekend?
Some silly geese in the Senate GOP are filibustering the Reid "compromise" so there won't be a vote on it until Sunday at the earliest, barring some unexpected turn of events.
Then it has to pass the Senate, and then pass through the mouth of madness formerly known as the House.
Before Tuesday.
We're fucked.
I figure a clean bill of some kind will emerge on monday like the budget compromise itself that lead to this bullshit.
Well either that or the damage has already been done to our credit rating and all those teaper mother fucks are about to lose their "bootstrappy" government assistance.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The US won't actually default if the debt ceiling isn't raised; more than enough tax revenue comes in monthly to pay it off.
What will happen though is that they will either stop paying soldiers or stop paying SS, Medicare, or Medicaid, or some combination of all of those. Good fucking luck getting reelected if some of those checks don't go out.
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
I find it hilarious that Angry Boid is actually defending the idea that we should all live in poverty. Like, seriously? You think that's a good outcome?
The Teabaggers do. Why should it be so much of a surprise that he would, too?
Living in poverty is hardly a solution, and your anecdotal evidence is hardly compelling. It's nice that you had a system in place to fill in the government void, but you were still in poverty.
Now what about regions that might not have their own self-made security net? What happens when a person does not step in line with this system? A good example is a poor Christian town, and you're the gay atheist.
Most people in poverty have a family, as in parents, etc..
Households are just going to have to be more crowded. If people live with their parents for much longer periods of time than just moving the fuck out at 18 I guarantee you they will likely not be strapped for cash all the fucking time if they got a decent minimum wage job.
A lot of people don't.
And what happens when you depend on your parents to cover for expenses your minimum wage job can't cover and your parents get too old to work? Are we back to having kids in the double digits just to be able support the parents then? Poverty is not an option to choose.
And it's bullshit to say that they cause more debt. If you feed and shelter a person, he can focus on finding a job and becoming a taxpayer. If you don't, then you may have to deal with him turning to crime. Which means stuff taken from taxpayers and possibly more money on jails and police.
This is retarded, and frankly incredibly condescending to assume that just because a person is in poverty they are pretty much going to turn criminal if you don't satisfy them.
Then why is poverty strongly correlated with crime? Is it the impoverished inner city districts or the gated communities in the suburbs that have the highest crime rates? People in poverty without a way out will have to turn to crime to be able to do things like feeding their family, or themselves even. Claiming this isn't so requires a tea party level of ignorance.
I find it hilarious that Angry Boid is actually defending the idea that we should all live in poverty. Like, seriously? You think that's a good outcome?
The Teabaggers do. Why should it be so much of a surprise that he would, too?
No, they think the lazy poor people should live in proper poverty*.
( * ): Unemployed poor people who are members of the tea party are simply hard working people down on their luck who can't get a job due to illegals/affirmative action, select as region appropriate.
The US won't actually default if the debt ceiling isn't raised; more than enough tax revenue comes in monthly to pay it off.
What will happen though is that they will either stop paying soldiers or stop paying SS, Medicare, or Medicaid, or some combination of all of those. Good fucking luck getting reelected if some of those checks don't go out.
That depends on how you define "default".
As soon as the federal government says "We're too fucking dysfunctional to pay the bills we've promised to pay, but we swear we'll prioritize paying interest on our outstanding loans" then our credit rating goes to shit, our interest rates shoot up, and the world economy no longer considers American debt to be one of the safest of harbors.
That's pretty much all of the negatives that would happen if we told our debtors to go fuck themselves.
Edit: Except a pure default might spark a war, and actually paying our debt interest should avoid that.
I find it hilarious that Angry Boid is actually defending the idea that we should all live in poverty. Like, seriously? You think that's a good outcome?
edit- or i was just trolled. Good show, sir.
With the argument that it works in third world countries...
So should we expect any hot debt ceiling action from Congress this weekend?
Some silly geese in the Senate GOP are filibustering the Reid "compromise" so there won't be a vote on it until Sunday at the earliest, barring some unexpected turn of events.
Then it has to pass the Senate, and then pass through the mouth of madness formerly known as the House.
Before Tuesday.
We're fucked.
The repubs are filibustering just because the dems wouldn't pass the House bill. No, that is the only reason. It is typical republican behavior, get the liberals back for everything they did to you regardless of reason.
Did someone seriously just suggest the United States model itself on Morocco? What with ranking 75th in infant mortality, behind Kryzgystan, 78th in life expectancy, behind Mexico, Libya, and Cuba, where only 81% of the population have access to clean drinking water, 69% to sanitation facilities, 52.3% literacy (39.6% among females), an educational expectancy of 10 years, and ranking 151st in per capita GDP between Georgia (the country) and Bolivia?
The state of Georgia, btw, has a GDP of $404B, 4 times the size of Morocco's, with a third the population.
Did someone seriously just suggest the United States model itself on Morocco? What with ranking 75th in infant mortality, behind Kryzgystan, 78th in life expectancy, behind Mexico, Libya, and Cuba, where only 81% of the population have access to clean drinking water, 69% to sanitation facilities, 52.3% literacy (39.6% among females), an educational expectancy of 10 years, and ranking 151st in per capita GDP between Georgia (the country) and Bolivia?
The state of Georgia, btw, has a GDP of $404B, 4 times the size of Morocco's, with a third the population.
He was an alt trolling under the pretense that he lived there and never actually watched anyone starve to death, so it's an awesome place.
Banned while I was quickly looking up stats and going "uh, that place is not what I would like to turn the US into", especially when the alternative to doing so is.. actually pretty trivial. It's not like we're talking "we MUST CUT EVERYTHING OR OH GOD WE DIE", it's "we have to cut shit because.. I think we might win an election if we make these cuts and try and blame someone else for them"
Edit: Except a pure default might spark a war, and actually paying our debt interest should avoid that.
I don't think anyone would consider war with the US as a realistic means of collecting a debt. Apart from raiding Fort Knox, I'm not even sure what they could hope to gain from it.
So, I think the happy thought that we can all take away from this is that there won't be a nuclear war as a direct result. That's gotta count for something, right?
Did someone seriously just suggest the United States model itself on Morocco? What with ranking 75th in infant mortality, behind Kryzgystan, 78th in life expectancy, behind Mexico, Libya, and Cuba, where only 81% of the population have access to clean drinking water, 69% to sanitation facilities, 52.3% literacy (39.6% among females), an educational expectancy of 10 years, and ranking 151st in per capita GDP between Georgia (the country) and Bolivia?
The state of Georgia, btw, has a GDP of $404B, 4 times the size of Morocco's, with a third the population.
He was an alt trolling under the pretense that he lived there and never actually watched anyone starve to death, so it's an awesome place.
Banned while I was quickly looking up stats and going "uh, that place is not what I would like to turn the US into", especially when the alternative to doing so is.. actually pretty trivial. It's not like we're talking "we MUST CUT EVERYTHING OR OH GOD WE DIE", it's "we have to cut shit because.. I think we might win an election if we make these cuts and try and blame someone else for them"
Ah well. Then I suppose I don't need to comment on the fact that social security has been working, and it won't "stop working" (that is, run out of money) until 2036. If anything, arguments about social security not working should surround the fact that it's not paying enough for retirement. But how is it that conservatives are so ready to jump on the "Social security is broken and is going to bankrupt the country" 25 years early, but "Raise the debt ceiling so the country doesn't go bankrupt 3 days later? Pisshaw."
Edit: Except a pure default might spark a war, and actually paying our debt interest should avoid that.
I don't think anyone would consider war with the US as a realistic means of collecting a debt. Apart from raiding Fort Knox, I'm not even sure what they could hope to gain from it.
So, I think the happy thought that we can all take away from this is that there won't be a nuclear war as a direct result. That's gotta count for something, right?
Edit: Except a pure default might spark a war, and actually paying our debt interest should avoid that.
I don't think anyone would consider war with the US as a realistic means of collecting a debt. Apart from raiding Fort Knox, I'm not even sure what they could hope to gain from it.
So, I think the happy thought that we can all take away from this is that there won't be a nuclear war as a direct result. That's gotta count for something, right?
Great, now you've made John Milius cry.
Are you happy now?!
Aw
Well he can still hide out in the Rockies until this blows over.
Posts
It's called a Virtual Residence. You can now get a residential address as your official permanent address without actually living there, much how some companies have Virtual Offices, prestigious business addresses in places they actually don't exist in.
Not everyone has parents, and even people that have parents don't necessarily have kind caring ones. I know people whose parents won't let them live with them even though they are not capable of supporting themselves.
It "works" to slightly blunt the impact of widespread poverty.
You know what works a fuck of a lot better to blunt the impact of widespread poverty?
A social safety net.
Edit: And for fuck's sake, America has been through this. Up until the early 20th Century, the American poor had next to no social safety net to rely on other than family support and a patchwork of private charities. The quality of life for most of those poor was absolutely fucking horrific.
And where's the safety net for the social safety net?
For starters other countries have some form of universal healthcare. The largest cause of bankruptcy in america is medical bills. So in your utopia of someone living with their parents they better hope like fuck they don't get sick or need surgery or they'll be fucked for life.
I just had gall bladder surgery the bill before surgery was nine thousand dollars. Or to someone on mininum wage, just about an entire years pay check.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is absolutely nonsensical. What are you even asking here?
Or not the right kind of Christian. Or the town just deciding that you are the gay atheist because they want to? There is no kind of people like the fundamental Christian for assigning opinions to people.
A sensible system of progressive taxation?
Care to explain why MORE DEBT is really that bad of a thing?
So should we expect any hot debt ceiling action from Congress this weekend?
Actually no - people don't starve to death despite high urban unemployment because the Moroccan government puts over 80% of its social spending towards subsidising food (also the rural poor can supplement calories in ways urbanites can't), and due to the demographic structure there are a lot of young people for each old person draining on resources. Morocco isn't some barely developed country, the government has a very active role and if it defaulted there would be severe problems.
I agree people probably wouldn't starve to death if the US defaulted - you'll end up with fun outcomes like Argentina did though, with 30% unemployment and a million 6-12 year old children in Buenos Aires working collecting garbage so their families can make ends meet.
I expect Sunday will be nuts on the politics shows. I'll be shocked if Obama doesn't address the nation at least once more.
And I'm really at a loss as to why the tabling of Boehners bill is anything but expected. I mean everyone said they were going to do just that. Only the republicans seem to be unable to do what people expect...
pleasepaypreacher.net
edit- or i was just trolled. Good show, sir.
Some silly geese in the Senate GOP are filibustering the Reid "compromise" so there won't be a vote on it until Sunday at the earliest, barring some unexpected turn of events.
Then it has to pass the Senate, and then pass through the mouth of madness formerly known as the House.
Before Tuesday.
I figure a clean bill of some kind will emerge on monday like the budget compromise itself that lead to this bullshit.
Well either that or the damage has already been done to our credit rating and all those teaper mother fucks are about to lose their "bootstrappy" government assistance.
pleasepaypreacher.net
What will happen though is that they will either stop paying soldiers or stop paying SS, Medicare, or Medicaid, or some combination of all of those. Good fucking luck getting reelected if some of those checks don't go out.
A lot of people don't.
And what happens when you depend on your parents to cover for expenses your minimum wage job can't cover and your parents get too old to work? Are we back to having kids in the double digits just to be able support the parents then? Poverty is not an option to choose.
Then why is poverty strongly correlated with crime? Is it the impoverished inner city districts or the gated communities in the suburbs that have the highest crime rates? People in poverty without a way out will have to turn to crime to be able to do things like feeding their family, or themselves even. Claiming this isn't so requires a tea party level of ignorance.
No, they think the lazy poor people should live in proper poverty*.
( * ): Unemployed poor people who are members of the tea party are simply hard working people down on their luck who can't get a job due to illegals/affirmative action, select as region appropriate.
That depends on how you define "default".
As soon as the federal government says "We're too fucking dysfunctional to pay the bills we've promised to pay, but we swear we'll prioritize paying interest on our outstanding loans" then our credit rating goes to shit, our interest rates shoot up, and the world economy no longer considers American debt to be one of the safest of harbors.
That's pretty much all of the negatives that would happen if we told our debtors to go fuck themselves.
Edit: Except a pure default might spark a war, and actually paying our debt interest should avoid that.
Magic Hateball says "Prospects look pretty grim."
pleasepaypreacher.net
Ah, great, thanks!
With the argument that it works in third world countries...
The repubs are filibustering just because the dems wouldn't pass the House bill. No, that is the only reason. It is typical republican behavior, get the liberals back for everything they did to you regardless of reason.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The state of Georgia, btw, has a GDP of $404B, 4 times the size of Morocco's, with a third the population.
He was an alt trolling under the pretense that he lived there and never actually watched anyone starve to death, so it's an awesome place.
Banned while I was quickly looking up stats and going "uh, that place is not what I would like to turn the US into", especially when the alternative to doing so is.. actually pretty trivial. It's not like we're talking "we MUST CUT EVERYTHING OR OH GOD WE DIE", it's "we have to cut shit because.. I think we might win an election if we make these cuts and try and blame someone else for them"
If it makes you feel any better, I'm also fucked eight ways to Sunday if my college loans don't go through.
And, uh, not in the good way being fucked eight ways to Sunday might imply.
I don't think anyone would consider war with the US as a realistic means of collecting a debt. Apart from raiding Fort Knox, I'm not even sure what they could hope to gain from it.
So, I think the happy thought that we can all take away from this is that there won't be a nuclear war as a direct result. That's gotta count for something, right?
Ah well. Then I suppose I don't need to comment on the fact that social security has been working, and it won't "stop working" (that is, run out of money) until 2036. If anything, arguments about social security not working should surround the fact that it's not paying enough for retirement. But how is it that conservatives are so ready to jump on the "Social security is broken and is going to bankrupt the country" 25 years early, but "Raise the debt ceiling so the country doesn't go bankrupt 3 days later? Pisshaw."
Great, now you've made John Milius cry.
Are you happy now?!
When people who call themselves leaders can behave like this when their country is facing what the US now faces is frightening.
Aw
Well he can still hide out in the Rockies until this blows over.