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Unbiased opinion on alcoholism needed
Demurist
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I was diagnosed as a drug addict and alcoholic when I was 19 and went into recovery. I had my last drug on October 13, 2007 and my last drink on January 13, 2008. At first, I attended regular AA meetings and went through an outpatient rehab program that lasted a little over a year. I came to terms with the fact that I was no longer a normal person. My 21st birthday came and went. I spent the whole day working and I spent my evening in a group rehab session. I didn't even feel like I was missing out.
In my sobriety, I have met a woman, gotten engaged to her and I am about to get a Bachelor degree in culinary arts, something I have wanted my whole life. I feel like everything is going fairly well considering all the shit I used to do. In fact, I have been sober longer than the duration of my substance abuse. I have not attended an AA meeting in over a year and a half. It's hard to be an atheist in AA. It's a pretty preachy program. And I felt like they were brainwashing me.
The problem I face now is that I am no longer content with being the guy who always turns down invitations to hang out at bars and I'm sort of jealous of people who get to come home after a long day of work and relax with a beer. I want to be a normal 23 year old. I'm not saying I want to go out and get wasted. In fact, I'd like to avoid getting completely shit faced. I want to go back to being a social drinker. When I first started drinking and doing drugs, I barely ever got drunk. I was high often and on other things alot, but I didn't ever drink heavily unless I was out of drugs.
I am aware of the disease concept of alcoholism and that it never really goes away. I know I can't necessarily be cured of addiction, but I think it is possible to redirect one's addiction. Anyone who has ever suffered addiction is still addicted to something. Right now I am all about Fallout: New Vegas and food. Also I masturbate alot. But I want to know if anyone else thinks this is a logical idea, that someone can overcome their addiction and be able to drink on occasion without returning to being a booze swilling good-for-nothing. In recovery, we are warned about this line of thinking. We are told that there will come times when we attempt to rationalize our desire to drink or do drugs but that we shouldn't listen. We will only pick up right where we left off. This makes sense and I don't doubt it to be true, but it makes me feel like Ed Norton in Fight Club. "Mr. Durden said you would say that." Like I said, I feel kind of brain washed.
I'd really like some advice on this, especially if it is coupled with evidence of some kind.
In my sobriety, I have met a woman, gotten engaged to her and I am about to get a Bachelor degree in culinary arts, something I have wanted my whole life. I feel like everything is going fairly well considering all the shit I used to do. In fact, I have been sober longer than the duration of my substance abuse. I have not attended an AA meeting in over a year and a half. It's hard to be an atheist in AA. It's a pretty preachy program. And I felt like they were brainwashing me.
The problem I face now is that I am no longer content with being the guy who always turns down invitations to hang out at bars and I'm sort of jealous of people who get to come home after a long day of work and relax with a beer. I want to be a normal 23 year old. I'm not saying I want to go out and get wasted. In fact, I'd like to avoid getting completely shit faced. I want to go back to being a social drinker. When I first started drinking and doing drugs, I barely ever got drunk. I was high often and on other things alot, but I didn't ever drink heavily unless I was out of drugs.
I am aware of the disease concept of alcoholism and that it never really goes away. I know I can't necessarily be cured of addiction, but I think it is possible to redirect one's addiction. Anyone who has ever suffered addiction is still addicted to something. Right now I am all about Fallout: New Vegas and food. Also I masturbate alot. But I want to know if anyone else thinks this is a logical idea, that someone can overcome their addiction and be able to drink on occasion without returning to being a booze swilling good-for-nothing. In recovery, we are warned about this line of thinking. We are told that there will come times when we attempt to rationalize our desire to drink or do drugs but that we shouldn't listen. We will only pick up right where we left off. This makes sense and I don't doubt it to be true, but it makes me feel like Ed Norton in Fight Club. "Mr. Durden said you would say that." Like I said, I feel kind of brain washed.
I'd really like some advice on this, especially if it is coupled with evidence of some kind.
Demurist on
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If I were you, I would probably try to go to these social things and just have juice or tonic (my dad learned to love tonic water on its own), but I can't recommend that you "test the waters" with a drink, as it were. Even if it works out, having one drink be okay once can let you think that two drinks might be okay twice, etc. If you're doing really well now and you're happy with your life, I wouldn't mess with it. Believe me, you aren't missing anything that could possibly replace the stability you have now.
Speaking as someone who does not like the taste of alcohol, so does not do the bar scene...
I've been through the 'i wish i was more normal' phase. My social circles arent very large and maybe if i felt the desire to go get plastered every now and then it would be a little bigger. However in your case you already have the stability that i desire and a relationship. What you should be doing now is establishing friends that dont need the drugs/booze. Find gamer friends, get into a euro board game group or movie/book club.
The biggest question you have to ask yourself is whats more important to you...your current relationship and stability or you urge to get back into that social circle. Cause while you MIGHT be able to handle drinking again, you already have proven that you have an addictive personality so chances are you wont. Personally I would not take the risk knowing what you already know about yourself. Youll never know if you could handle it until you take that first drink and by then its too late...youve broken your sobriety and your back at square one.
but they're listening to every word I say
Why do you think a drink after work will make you relax more than anything else? There are other ways to relax.
I personally would not take the risk of becoming addicted again-- it seems like a bad idea to me.
I have a coworker who went through AA and has gone to the bar with us a few times-- he typically drinks a seltzer with cranberry juice or something similar. Once we went to a Mexican restaurant with those bathtub sized daiquiris/margaritas/mojitos and they made him a virgin strawberry daiquiri no problem and no questions asked.
I would also second azith's suggestion; seeking out groups that are into things you're into like gaming, where you can meet people who share similar interests but that you might not meet at a bar or a club. That way you meet people you actually want to talk to instead of having to shout over loud sports/crappy music/noisy hipsters and it's easier to meet people with whom you already have a social connection.
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Anytime I think of alcoholics\alcoholism, from my observations of friends and family, most people fell into it when their lives were basically garbage and they drank to make the pain go away because they were miserable. In your case, you have accomplished quite a bit and seems like your life is in order. You've gone to the rehab and you've done the meetings and I imagine it's not something you would want to do again. Ultimately it is all about how much self control you have. Do you think you can drink alcohol without abusing again?
I'm curious. Is this just a strawberry snow cone? I've never bothered to ask for a virgin daiquiri before.
I don't think that is a question he can really answer with a clear history of drug abuse. Clearly his opinion would not be unbiased. Not that internet strangers can tell you any better.
The real question is what you think the risk is and do you want to roll those dice?
but they're listening to every word I say
I have tried looking for friends in the gamer circles or who play Magic: the Gathering, but they either invite me out for drinks or they are just awful people that I do not really want to spend time with. I feel handicapped.
Besides, I'm in downtown Chicago. I don't even have a car if I wanted to dd. :P
I do know people who have managed to move from "absolutely nothing" to "one or two beers a month", but I know just as many if not more who tried it and swung back into old habits. The Christianity of AA doesn't really enter into that aspect of things. If you suspect you are an alcoholic, it is best not to drink. The biggest draw of alcohol is as a social lubricant, which you won't need since people will line up to have you as their sober friend who keeps them from driving.
I know it's not my place to tell you what you really are, but this sentence right here makes me strongly suspect you are an alcoholic for real. I like alcoholic beverages myself, but if one day I learned that I would ruin my life if I took another drink, I would immediately stop and not really feel like I was missing out on anything.
EDIT: In any case, it's a wager. What do you have to lose if you are an alcoholic and slide back into old behaviors? What do you have to gain? If you ask me, you have a lot more to lose than gain.
And this is exactly why you shouldn't even have a single drink. You are not right. There is nothing special or significant about drinking alcohol over a diet coke, but you've made the distinction in your mind and you have elevated it. This is why I would be frightened as hell of you having even a single drink. Just don't do it.
I had a long talk with my fiance about this and she says she'll support me no matter what. Unless I go back to coke. That's where she draws the line. She thinks it might be worth a shot, but also admits that she knows very little about addiction. We met since I've been sober.
To take a completely unbiased view, assessing someone other than myself, I would urge the same caution you all are telling me. But, I do believe it is possible for someone to overcome substance addiction by rerouting their addiction. I have no problem finding other things to do with my time.
The biggest thing holding me back is everything I have been told in AA and rehab. It's pretty much verbatim what you guys are telling me. I feel like these views are biased to some degree and that they are also all bound by some logic and fact, but at the same time, I have my doubts.
I have no doubt in my mind that I went overboard when I was a teenager. I fell in with a bad crowd and started off quick. Lots of drugs. Lots of bad ideas, some of which landed me in jail. I don't want to go back there for sure, but I don't think that it is an inevitability.
I just feel like any argument I could possibly make are the same as the kinds of arguments they told me to look out for in recovery. "I can handle it." "I've learned from my mistake." "I know my limits." It's all very cliche. But sometimes, when the prisoner says, "I didn't do it," he's telling the truth.
On the other hand, your entire life is ruined!
I don't think the beer is worth it.
Like I said, AA has some things right, forcing Christianity down your throat aside. Nobody here is trying to limit your freedom because drinking is an exclusive club and we don't want you to be a member.
Why do you guys drink? What is your reason for having a beer or a cocktail on occasion?
Going to parties is the same for me. Back when i was 18 to 25 i used to drink to blacking out all the time, it was a social lubricant, and I preferred to be that guy at the party. Now, I don't like the way it makes me feel, and I don't like loosing control like that. I have lots of friends and family that drink all around me, and i love a good beer. But Its not a bid deal, i don't feel i am missing out.
This doesn't sound good at all. You are not looking to add a little pleasure to a life that is already complete, but to overcome boredom in a life that does not quite feel complete.
If you do go out for drinks with the MTG crowd there is nothing to say that you have to drink alcohol. Half the geeks I know don't like to drink but they still go out and talk nerdy in bars. No-one thinks its strange that not all the party are drinking booze. You probably wouldn't be the only one not drinking if the nerd crowd I know is typical.
Also, those with diabetes can't load up on desserts. You can!
I used to work with addicts and heard these exact arguments all the time from people on their way to a relapse.
This.
If you think that going drinking with your friends is worth more than your relationship, you have a problem.
Just so it's clear: you may have a problem.
As someone who has gotten away from drugs for a woman, I wouldn't go back for any of it. I don't particularly have an addictive personality, so it may be harder for you. The question is, can you roll out of bed every morning and do what is best for you, rather than do whatever feels best. That's just part of being an adult.
As long as you exert your self-control, your disease is also one that won't screw you up, physically or mentally.
Sometimes. A few people at school, or old coworkers know about it. Others don't really ask too much. If they are dicks about it I tell them I have an allergy. I haven't met anyone that I actually want to be friends with that have it as a conditional clause that I must drink to hang out with them. The main issue I have is that some of the people I want to be friends with, people that I enjoy talking to and spending time with, I can't think of anything to do with these people. I enjoy the time I spend with them at work or in school, and would like to develop a friendship with them, but they do not play video games or Magic or any of the other nerdy things I like to do. They just like to have a few drinks and chat. I could give the hang out but don't drink thing a try again, but I have a feeling it will still make me uncomfortable. I guess I just don't know how to socialize.
I appreciate your blatant honesty here. Being called a "painfully obvious alcoholic kinda stings, but truths are truths. I wasn't really expecting validation from you guys. I figured most people wouldn't be down with the idea, but I was kinda curious if anyone had any kind of new argument or evidence for me. I have heard everything before. The one thing almost all arguments I have heard are lacking, is proof. Evidence beyond anything anecdotal. I figured PAers would be more likely to give me something more concrete than "Don't do it bro! This guy I knew..." or "You have a problem, guy. Just listen to yourself!"
I must say though, that I am kinda surprised that this got this many responses. I figured I would get one or two people to say a few words, post a link or whatever, but I am pleasantly surprised by the number of people who care for the well being of a complete stranger and who are clearly aware of the dangers of addiction. Thank you all.
My guess is that you feel awkward in the situations you describe because you are making yourself feel awkward. Honestly, no one worth the time chatting will care if you drink whiskey or tonic, but if you look uncomfortable and self-conscious then people are going to spend a lot of time trying very hard not to look at you like you're growing another head. That's a confidence issue, not a drinking issue, and if you order your juice and soda like it's what you want to drink no one will think about it twice. If you order it like somebody is watching you, people are probably going to wonder who, and that's going to feed into this.
False. This disease constantly screws with people. It is a mental disorder. That is like saying, if you try really hard, the schizophrenia will go away. I know I am fucked. I know I have problems. The obsessive consumption of any substances in the past has only been a symptom. My line of thinking was more about exploring the possibility of taking a symptom and separating it from the disease, which now that I typed it out makes me want to check myself back into rehab.
So I can't drink again. Ever. That does still sick. Even if I ignore the fact that I can no longer experience an altered state of mind, regardless of how cool it might be, I am still deprived of one of the biggest parts of my profession.
This. I can never explore the amazing flavors combinations of wine and food or beer and food. I love cheese! It is probably the greatest invention of man kind. I have been to cheese tastings where wine is served and I felt like I was up in the nosebleeds at a hockey game, watching it on the jumbotron. I might as well have been reading a book on wine and cheese! It's aggravating that I get to hear about how well this drink goes with this cut of beef and how you have to try this wine with dessert; it's amazing. Flavor affinity to me is like matching colors to a painter. I might as well be color blind. I will forever be the chef who orders diet Coke with his foie gras. I will never know. My knowledge will always be lacking something so simple. So basic. So standard. Is it worth drinking over? Not if I walk into a bar and never come out. But it still sucks. Real bad.
I feel doomed to envy the normal people forever.
Sometimes the things you need to hear to keep the worst from happening sound cheesy.
Absolutely this right here.
Dude, people who are lactose-intolerant don't get to go out for ice cream with their pals. I doubt they describe themselves as abnormal. I'm allergic to sulfa meds, NSAIDs and just about everything else under the sun. When I have a migraine, I get to take Tylenol.
People have health problems, yours just happens to be related to alcohol. You are not any more or less abnormal than anyone else I know.
You know, I have a lot of problems of my own that have absolutely nothing to do with drugs or alcohol, but make me feel this way all the time. I don't go to parties, I miss my casual friendships, and I think to myself "I bet it's nice to be able to go and get wasted with acquaintances like a lot of people my age do." I'm willing to bet that lots and lots of people around here have something that makes them envy the normals. Whoever the normals are. I've only ever met one or two.