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GameStop --- Unethical business practices?
Vontux
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Registered User new member
Is this an example of unethical business practices?
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/24/gamestop-pulls-deus-ex-human-revolution-pc-versions-from-shelve/
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/24/gamestop-intentionally-removing-deus-ex-onlive-coupons-from-reta/
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/24/gamestop-pulls-deus-ex-human-revolution-pc-versions-from-shelve/
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/24/gamestop-intentionally-removing-deus-ex-onlive-coupons-from-reta/
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that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Opening and removing the coupons to OnLive, is malfeasance pure and simple. They are aggressively injuring Square's interests since I am sure Square gets something from OnLive for every person that uses the coupon to sign up.
It is false advertising AND it is mucking with the transaction/business between another part in the distribution chain (Square) and the final customer (punters).
They can get hit pretty viciously for this.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I am willing to bet you will never play a Square Enix game on GameStop's cloud service... if it ever comes out.
That said, opening the case should negate your ability to sell it as new. That was just silly.
I can't even imagine why Square would sign such an agreement with a retailer. Seems like a bad idea to me.
it isn't food, it doesn't go bad when you open the box
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
If there is a used copy of a game that is fundamentally flawless, hasn't even left the box, then why is it worth less then a new copy?
Altering a product without informing the customer that expected contents have been removed? Nothing, I'm sure.
That raises the question of when a video game is no longer "new."
If it was a car, as soon as a car is registered and titled to someone other than a dealer, the car is used and can't be sold as new.
So when is a video game no longer new? When it is opened? When it's bought and taken home and then returned?
I don't know, why is it?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
And it's not like Gamestop has a defense against it if they brought the legal guns to bear. They carry Steamworks games quite often.
The only reason they did this was because the online service that was the "cause" of this, is nowhere near the juggernaut that Steam is. If they tried this with Steam, then that's a fight that Gamestop would be destined to lose, and badly at that.
It was an attempt to muscle out a potential competitor that was on their "turf". Simple as that. You're seeing the same thing with services like Origin popping up, where publishers and distributors are drawing lines in the sand to try and gain more control over the market.
TL;DR: Hell yes, it was unethical, and Gamestop really screwed the pooch this time. Them pulling the game from the shelves entirely was probably an attempt to mitigate possible incoming legal damages after their legal department read about it and promptly started flipping out.
Edit: Also, here's a good article on the whole thing, and some of the other hijinks Gamestop has gotten up too recently.
It also mentions that Gamestop got caught selling used games as new games. Thus letting them increase the price tag on the used game, while secretly not giving the guarantee of quality/it working, that a new game has. This is actually most likely very illegal, as it breaks a number of laws and regulations regarding deceptive advertising and expectation of service, something the article points out, as well.
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/08/gamestop-onlive/
Because its not new. Its been opened, so it falls underneath the category of "used" by Gamestops own criteria. That criteria just doesn't apply to Gamestop itself. The one I worked at out of high school showed the employees how to carefully lift up the factory seal on the cases so you could take a new game home, play it, and then bring it back and shrink wrap it at the store and then sell it as brand new.
But if you shop at GameStop just on the regular, then you either don't buy games frequently enough to benefit much from knowing better or the shit they pull doesn't bother you. If you don't shop at GameStop, then the shit they pull doesn't affect you anyway.
Amazon has a fairly decent system going.
Yeah but I'm way too lazy to ship things.
this doesn't actually answer the question, of course
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
That's some interesting reasoning.
There is an interesting debate to be had about how new is new, but I think for our purposes Gamestop is selling, as new, games that they themselves have previously defined to be used. I don't know enough about US law to decide as to whether this double standard is legal, but it certainly feels wrong.
At best it's a double standard
If the process were reversed, and gamestop had an agreement that let them include their promotional coupon for whatever service with a game, I doubt people would be arguing that this ought to entitle them to a "used" markdown.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Square Enix is the developer/publisher counterpart to Gamestop.
They are the fucking worst company. In some ways, they are more evil than Gamestop.
This does not surprise me in any way, shape, or form.
The decisions Gamestop makes and the tactics they use with publishers (and consumers) have wide-reaching ramifications in the industry. Their terrible policies go beyond the individual consumer's shopping experience.
It's been long known that GameStop has been opening games, re-sealing them and selling them as new... there just hasn't really been any hard evidence, just anecdotes. According to GameStops own policies, as soon as a PC game is opened it is no longer considered new. They don't even take returns or trade-ins on opened PC games anymore. I've been burned by this in the past when I thought my computer could run a game, but found out after installing that I couldn't. I attempted to take the game back the same day and the best they could offer was a trade-in (which was $20 less than what I had just paid an hour prior). However, if you can prove there's something wrong with the product, they'll replace it with another copy of the same game, but that's it.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action lawsuit against GameStop. At this point, considering past shadiness, they'd deserve it. They only reason I still shop at GameStop is because I became friends with the employees at the local store years ago and they're still working there :P. I know for a fact the most senior guy there prevents these practices from happening in his store.
We really shouldn't go down this road.
You won't find the definition of "new" as related to retail products chiseled on a concrete tablet handed down by God, but the reality is, "new" for retail products generally means "factory sealed."
Of course you'll counter this by saying "oh, but people can try on clothes at department stores" and "oh, but people can test drive new cars before buying them" and blah blah blah but the fact is "new" for boxed purchases means "unopened." This is the connotation of "new" that the entire retail industry - consumers and sellers and even resellers - subscribes to. And yes, that makes it the definition of "new." I am wholly uninterested in Gamestop's wankery or anyone else's semantic wankery trying to disprove this. New means unopened. Gamestop opening a package means it is no longer new.
Also, I do a lot of PC gaming so I do a lot of business on Steam, which is like a constant orgasm of good deals. GameStop has effectively abandoned PC gaming, so they're even more irrelevant to my gaming experience.
Paying any more than that for used titles, certainly at the ultra-shitty 5-15% "discount" the places like GameStop or Best Buy offer, seems like a waste of cash. I'd argue that selling me a used product at no more discount than that isn't a discount at all.
Why all the false equivalencies here? I don't even understand what the point of your posts are?
This is a gaming forum, and this thread is about the primary brick and mortar games retailer. I don't see anything about abortions or gay rights in this thread. I have never seen a poll or survey on this forum where people rated "consumer issues with Gamestop" as being on par or higher than abortion or gay rights.
People are outraged because this is outrageous. Gay rights and abortion issues (which if you actually look around on D&D will prove that people here DO get outraged about these issues as well) have nothing to do with this. So that's kind of a dumb thing to bring up.
Reading between the lines, I think you are trying to say (without really saying it): "whoa, you people are taking this too seriously" to which I can only respond that (a) people take their consumer rights seriously, and there is nothing wrong with that and (b) it is wise to be wary of giant corporate entities, especially one like GameStop who unfortunately has an uncomfortable amount of clout and can actually affect my experiences beyond the shopping experience.
The line of thinking in this thread seems to be that because the product isn't "new," that gamestop's committed some transgression that ought to entitle consumers to remedy. But like you point out, the criteria for whether a product is "new" are hardly set in stone. I'm not being semantic, I'm asking what this damage that gamestop has apparently done by declaring these boxes "new" actually is.
The beef in this situation is between gamestop and the publisher, not between gamestop and the consumer. Unfortunately, nobody's lawyers seem to be being particularly forthcoming about what the distribution agreement actually said.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Different actors have different roles and privileges.
-This is why they are able to sell you a used copy of a game for $25, but they will only buy a copy from you for $5.
-You can play a used game, beat it and return it to them in under a week for freesies, but they can't bring the game and receipt to your house to return it when they find it cheaper on amazon.
-You can protest outside their store about what a bullshit move removing a coupon from a box is, but they can't send their employees over your house to scream at you for torrenting My Little Ponies Action Arcade Adventures.
I didn't even know gamestop sold PC games anymore. What kind of chumps buy PC games at a fucking gamestop?
I don't believe I've seen anyone here has claimed that it is equivelant to those issues (re: nice strawman). However, it is an issue of consumer's rights and that makes it both relevant and important for discussion. Just because it doesn't affect YOU, doesn't mean its not important to the industry and consumers. Don't be a dick.
There are two beefs here. You might call it a meatball and sausage pizza full of beefs. Square and GS and the consumer and GS. The consumer just doesn't have any clout. All we can do is whine on forums, because GameStop doesn't give a shit and has no real accountability to us.
But regardless, I can't tell you quantitatively how much "damage" GameStop does to me by falsely selling me opened products as fully new products, but so what? Just because I can't define the level of "damage" doesn't mean the practice or their attempt to go against the grain of what "new" connotes isn't wrong.
Is that true? Can members of a corporation actually protest individual consumers? I know you were just joking-ish but I don't actually think they can. A judge would probably view that as harassment, not protest.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Except sold the product under false premises.
You're exactly right about what I'm trying to say. But I understand that you feel the impact of GameStop's business practices more than I do.
I brought up other issues not because HEY LET'S ALL TALK ABOUT HOT BUTTON ISSUES, but to illustrate how seriously everyone is taking GameStop. To me, this sort of buffoonery is more Dr. Evil than Karl Rove. It's definitely worth raising awareness of, but I personally think that GameStop is digging their own damn grave pulling shit like this.
As for the OP, "is this an example of unethical business practices?" Well, obviously. Yes. What else is there to debate here? Are we just here to hate on GameStop now?