Metal Gear Concerns and Fears (Metal Fears?)

zfleeman

I just finished my first play through of Metal Gear Solid, and hot-damn that game is rad. I did this in anticipation of the HD rereleases coming in November. Now that I'm exceedingly interested in this series, I want to play more. I can wait for the rerelease, so I'd rather pick up a version exclusive to my new PSP.

I'm not too hungry to play the Acid series, but Portable Ops caught my eye. I saw that its story is canonical and follows Snake Eater, which is pretty neat-o but causes some concerns. So, I come to you wise folk humbly asking for your take:

Will I need to play through Snake Eater first to enjoy Portable Ops? After playing with the "new" game mechanics of Portable Ops, will going back to a more archaic way of controlling Snake (to my knowledge, MGS2 & 3) be upsetting? I am wary of spoilers via playing games out of order, so I'll take any recommendations in order to get the best MGS experience.

Thanks!

mntorankusu

Don't play Portable Ops or Peace Walker before Snake Eater. They'll spoil a ton of stuff. Sorry. And yes, the control differences will be easier to deal with if you do them in the order of release.

Waiting sucks, but it'll be worth it, I assure you.

Hahnsoo1

The PSP games are pretty much stand alone, although there will be some minor spoilers if you play them before Snake Eater (on the level of "Guess what? King Kong dies at the end of the movie."). If you are looking for a PSP Metal Gear, skip straight to Peace Walker. It's the best Metal Gear game on the PSP and one of the best Metal Gear games of the whole series on all platforms.

Bursar

Portable Ops comes directly after Snake Eater in the story, and you'll definitely want to play SE before PO. The "new" mechanics are basically base building, which doesn't come into play in Snake Eater at all. As for the controls, I personally found that the PSP games were really rather clunky because they were trying to emulate the PS2 controller using the face buttons. Luckily, when I'm trying to be sneaky, it doesn't have too much of an effect, but going full Rambo on people gave me problems.

But, anyway. Story-wise, definitely play Snake Eater before Portable Ops, PO+, or Snake Eater.

(I liked the Acid games. I realize that makes me a minority. They're definitely non-canon.)

SmokeStacks

I'd play them in release order, to be honest. Playing a later game in the series and then going back to an earlier one might spoil a few cool reveals. The story really builds upon itself in layers, so playing a game like MGS4 (which basically wraps up the entire Solid Snake portion of the storyline, pulling things from all three previous games in the series) before playing MGS2 or MGS3 might leave you confused, and certain story sections would have less impact.

The AC!D games are non-canon though, they take place in an alternate universe. There is a Metal Gear Solid for the GBC as well, and although it's probably technically canon (MGS2 spoilers)

It's another alternate timeline, but one theory is that Ghost Babel is actually Raiden's VR training that was supposed to simulate the Shadow Moses incident before he was sent to Big Shell

it's still standalone, and is pretty fun if you like the older style Metal Gear gameplay.

But yeah, for a weird Kojima Opera like MGS I'd definitely go release order if you can.

mntorankusu

Oh, yeah, you can totally play the GBC game now. It's awesome.

cooljammer00

The collection that is coming out, they don't include MGS1 in the US, right? Here we get Peace Walker but in Japan they get MGS1?

Should I just go pick up a cheap copy of Twin Snakes on GC if I want to try it out really badly?

Henroid

Did you play the PSX version of MGS, or did you play Twin Snakes?

This is actually crucial, with relation to how you will perceive the series from here on.

mntorankusu

Oh, and I don't know if you'd be very interested since it's all gameplay and no story, but VR Missions is incredibly awesome. I don't even like the original MGS because of its outdated gameplay, but somehow VR Missions still manages to be one of my favorite games of all time.

cooljammer00 wrote:

The collection that is coming out, they don't include MGS1 in the US, right? Here we get Peace Walker but in Japan they get MGS1?

Should I just go pick up a cheap copy of Twin Snakes on GC if I want to try it out really badly?

My understanding is that in Japan, the PS3 version just comes with a download code for the PS1 version of MGS that you can already buy on PSN. I would personally recommend Twin Snakes before the original, but you'll hear lots of differing opinions about that. If it's the only thing available to you, then absolutely.

Elderlycrawfish

Bursar wrote:

(I liked the Acid games. I realize that makes me a minority. They're definitely non-canon.)

A minority of two! (if I recall, there's quite a few people from G&T that are fans of AC!D2. The_Spaniard even has his own card in the game!)

Agree with everything above. Snake Eater's probably best to do before doing the portable iterations. I liked Portable Ops at the time, though I admit it's hard to play after playing Peace Walker. But Portable Ops introduced a lot of lore characters and concepts, so if you're a big fan in that regard I wouldn't skip it. I liked Ops+, but it's not necessary as it doesn't do anything more than give you more PO stuff to do minus story.

Peace Walker is great and I'm really looking forward to re-playing it in the HD release.

mntorankusu

I've tried over and over to play Peace Walker, but the controls just won't let me enjoy it. Portable Ops had awful controls too, but you could remap them. I eventually found a set of controls that I liked. Peace Walker only has two control schemes and if you don't like them, you're screwed.

Hopefully the HD version will work better for me.

SmokeStacks

Henroid wrote:

Did you play the PSX version of MGS, or did you play Twin Snakes?

This is actually crucial, with relation to how you will perceive the series from here on.

This, right here.

The Twin Snakes gets a lot better if you consider Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 to be what actually happened, whereas TTS is just Snake's incredibly exaggerated version of the story that he would tell you while the two of you were sitting around a campfire after drinking a case.

Henroid

SmokeStacks wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Did you play the PSX version of MGS, or did you play Twin Snakes?

This is actually crucial, with relation to how you will perceive the series from here on.

This, right here.

The Twin Snakes gets a lot better if you consider Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 to be what actually happened, whereas TTS is just Snake's incredibly exaggerated version of the story that he would tell you while the two of you were sitting around a campfire after drinking a case.

That's probably the most hilarious way I've seen it put, hahahaha! 8->

PSX version is a Christopher Nolan film, Twin Snakes is John Woo. That's how I compare the two.

But anyway, as it relates to the rest of the series, I'll put this behind a spoiler if tone of the series is important to you:

The series ends up going the John Woo route starting at MGS2. It disappoints me.

Hahnsoo1

Peace Walker has three control schemes, with some universal options for each involving weapon/item cycling. If you're used to playing stuff on the PSP, there should be an option there for you.
* Shooter Type - Like the typical PSP FPS game, where the right face buttons are for aiming and the D-Pad is for items/stance changes.
* Action Type - Like Monster Hunter, tap L a lot to center the camera behind you, use R to go into Aim mode (like a Bow gun).
* Hunter Type - Supposedly like Monster Hunter, but it doesn't seem like it to me. L is item select, Triangle is both aim and attack (which really messes things up for me, personally... I guess it's like Monster Hunter Bows).

I guess it would really depend on your tolerance for PSP controls.

Elderlycrawfish

mntorankusu wrote:

I've tried over and over to play Peace Walker, but the controls just won't let me enjoy it. Portable Ops had awful controls too, but you could remap them. I eventually found a set of controls that I liked. Peace Walker only has two control schemes and if you don't like them, you're screwed.

Hopefully the HD version will work better for me.

Yeah, that's the difference here I guess. I actually like the PW controls; but I also enjoyed the Syphon Filter games so I guess I was just familiar/comfortable enough with the control scheme. Yes, face buttons for camera is far, far from perfect, but given the limitations of the PSPs buttons/sticks/whatchamagizmos, there aren't a whole lot of other options to do everything that needed doing.

Peace Walker also had three control schemes, not two. Not that it was much help if you didn't like 'em though. :P

edit: Darnit, too slow! Curses!

And I'm pretty sure that controls will be just fine in the HD. Or on the Vita, for that matter.

Darth_Mogs

Elderlycrawfish wrote:

Bursar wrote:

(I liked the Acid games. I realize that makes me a minority. They're definitely non-canon.)

A minority of two! (if I recall, there's quite a few people from G&T that are fans of AC!D2. The_Spaniard even has his own card in the game!)

Three and counting. I love the shit out of Metal Gear Ac!d 2, and I honestly, genuinely wish there were more games like it. (I also have a thing for trading cards, so being able to 'buy' boosters with points helps a whole lot as well.)

Elderlycrawfish

Plus, you get the wacky 3D vision thing for AC!D2, so long as you don't mind looking foolish with that contraption on your system. But where else are you going to get sweet, sweet bikini models Metal Gear cutscenes and stuff in 3 Dimensions? :P

mntorankusu

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

Peace Walker has three control schemes, with some universal options for each involving weapon/item cycling. If you're used to playing stuff on the PSP, there should be an option there for you.
* Shooter Type - Like the typical PSP FPS game, where the right face buttons are for aiming and the D-Pad is for items/stance changes.
* Action Type - Like Monster Hunter, tap L a lot to center the camera behind you, use R to go into Aim mode (like a Bow gun).
* Hunter Type - Supposedly like Monster Hunter, but it doesn't seem like it to me. L is item select, Triangle is both aim and attack (which really messes things up for me, personally... I guess it's like Monster Hunter Bows).

I guess it would really depend on your tolerance for PSP controls.

Yeah, I don't really play shooters (especially not on the PSP), so I guess that's why nothing worked for me. It baffles me that on the PSP, they decided to move the series in the third-person, free-camera action-game-with awful-cramped-PSP-controls direction, when the controls available on the system would have actually been perfectly adequate for the older top-down, fixed-camera gameplay in every other game in the series at the time.

Renzo

Play the series in release order if you can. The exceptions being the Ac!d games, which I also think are awesome. Hi5.

So yeah, if you really want to play some more Metal Gear but are determined to wait for the HD re-releases, play one or both of the Ac!d games. Either one, in either order. They do not have a continuity, just a general Metal Gear-ness. But the gameplay improved a ton between Ac!d 1 and 2, so you may want to start with 1 so you don't spoil yourself.

In terms of release order, Ghost Babel is next in line I guess. But good luck finding it. I've never played it, and it doesn't have strong ties to the series.

Or Metal Gear 1 and 2. You could play those. But again, they don't tie in strongly to the series.

manwiththemachinegun

The main thing with MGS3 is you need to play it with the fixed camera, which I believe is coming in the HD rerelease. Story wise, I'd hold off on Portable Ops if only because the emotional kick to the gut you get isn't the same.

"Or Metal Gear 1 and 2. You could play those. But again, they don't tie in strongly to the series."

They're strong enough to be worth playing at least once with a guide for MG1. A lot of the frustration in that game is getting lost. It's campy fun once you know what you have to do.

Elderlycrawfish

If I recall, the HD version of Snake Eater is the Subsistence version (minus online), so it'll have the controllable camera. Maybe I'm wrong though.

manwiththemachinegun

Er by fixed I mean 'moveable' I should have clarified. The static camera in the original game led to many, many extra alerts since you couldn't see ten feet in front of you.

SmokeStacks

The fixed camera still comes in handy sometimes when you're running through a building, but the movable camera was a godsend. No more "walk ten feet, go into first person and look for guards, walk another ten feet, go into first person again, repeat". The fixed camera wasn't a huge issue in MGS or MGS2 because you spent the majority of your time inside small linear corridors, but man was it a pain in the ass when you were in the jungle.

One of the coolest things that came with Subsistence was the ability to look around and check out the awesome jungle environments. I can only imagine what that will be like with the HD re-release.

mntorankusu

The original camera made it easier to tell where you're going, though. And boss fights are a lot harder with the new camera. It's nice that you can switch between them at any time.

astronautcowboy3

Mind if I ask a few questions about the series as well?

1. Can you elaborate on the differences between the original MGS and TSS? I was always under the impression that it was the same game with new graphics, but it appears I'm wrong. Is the story significantly different, or is it the gameplay that has changed?

2. What language is used for voice acting in the different versions of the game? This is a bit tougher to answer, I'm sure, but which Japanese versions use David Hayter and co. versus Japanese voice actors?

Thanks to anyone that can provide info.

mntorankusu

astronautcowboy3 wrote:

Mind if I ask a few questions about the series as well?

1. Can you elaborate on the differences between the original MGS and TSS? I was always under the impression that it was the same game with new graphics, but it appears I'm wrong. Is the story significantly different, or is it the gameplay that has changed?

2. What language is used for voice acting in the different versions of the game? This is a bit tougher to answer, I'm sure, but which Japanese versions use David Hayter and co. versus Japanese voice actors?

Thanks to anyone that can provide info.

The story in Twin Snakes is the same. The gameplay essentially transplants MGS2's controls into MGS1, which makes the game a little more playable but since the game wasn't built around it, the gameplay doesn't quite "work" as well as MGS2. The problem most people have with the game is that the cutscenes are pretty over-the-top. Snake occasionally does backflips for no clear reason and that kind of thing. It's silly, but most of the fight scenes are genuinely well-done and the updated graphics are quite nice. Some of the voice actors were also changed, and they dropped the accents from Naomi and Mei Ling (which didn't make sense in the first place), stuff like that.

My understanding of the Japanese versions is that the original releases always used Japanese voice actors, but Twin Snakes, Integral, and maybe Substance used the English-language recordings. Not totally sure.

Rex Dart

astronautcowboy3 wrote:

Mind if I ask a few questions about the series as well?

1. Can you elaborate on the differences between the original MGS and TSS? I was always under the impression that it was the same game with new graphics, but it appears I'm wrong. Is the story significantly different, or is it the gameplay that has changed?

- All new cut-scenes directed by Ryuhei Kitamura. They're much more over-the-top and action-oriented. Depends on who you ask, but I think that a lot of them ended up awesome. Some of them were just silly.

- Gameplay updated with MGS2 elements. Mostly means more movement options (rolling, hanging from rails). It's also easier to take out guards with the addition of the tranq gun. Some complain this makes the game too easy. I think it makes the game more fun and less monotonous, but that's just me.

- VAs have been re-recorded. The original had a lot of characters speaking in very thick accents. Some of this aged poorly, like Mei Ling's terrible Asian accent. ("the regendary Sorid Snake?") The new stuff is much more down-to-earth.

Generally, peoples' preferences boil down to which one they played first. Both are great games in their own right, so don't worry too much about TTS vs PSX.

2. What language is used for voice acting in the different versions of the game? This is a bit tougher to answer, I'm sure, but which Japanese versions use David Hayter and co. versus Japanese voice actors?

I was under the impression that every game had Japanese VAs in Japan and English VAs outside of Asia. Could be wrong, though. Why do you ask?

Dirty

Playing them in release order is a pretty good idea.

Personally, although I loved almost every game in the series, I couldn't get into Portable Ops. To me, it felt like the weakest entry in terms of gameplay. And while the story was good (and canon), it didn't feel important. With neither the gameplay or the story giving me any incentive to finish, I didn't.

Peace Walker, on the other hand, I really liked. Also, you could play PW before MGS4, as long as you play it after Snake Eater. That way, MGS4 could be your grand finale!

SoundsPlush

I don't understand why this thread isn't called Gears for Fears.

CygnusZ

astronautcowboy3 wrote:

Mind if I ask a few questions about the series as well?

2. What language is used for voice acting in the different versions of the game? This is a bit tougher to answer, I'm sure, but which Japanese versions use David Hayter and co. versus Japanese voice actors?

Thanks to anyone that can provide info.

メタルギアソリッド インテグラル has English VA and you can toggle the text between English/Japanese.
Still, I prefer the Japanese VA cast even though it does have a fantastic English dub.

Vegan

Be warned that MGS1 is by far the most coherent Metal Gear story.

manwiththemachinegun

The Twin Snakes has grown on me. It's nice seeing a non-pixlated Liquid, and the cutscene fight coreography is extremely good with a few exceptions (Do you really have to bullet dodge Snake? I know you just saw the Matrix but still). There are some definate problems with the MGS2 engine not being designed for MGS1 gameplay which makes the game both too easy and too hard in some places.

I like the original and the remake.

Alice Leywind

Hell. Just being able to lie on the ground and shoot at the same time makes Mantis ridiculously easy.

But you ARE better off playing them in order. You'll get the references, and the plot will make....somewhat more sense.

astronautcowboy3

Rex Dart wrote:

I was under the impression that every game had Japanese VAs in Japan and English VAs outside of Asia. Could be wrong, though. Why do you ask?

I'm going to try and not be a hipster as much as possible when I say this, but basically I've decided to play games made in Japan in Japanese. However, it's purely for study reasons; I quite liked playing FFX in English all those years ago. Now I've gotten to a point with my Japanese ability that I can play games in the language (and I live here) so why not, I say. But I thought MGS might have been one of those "even in Japan the dub is English" games, so I wanted to check. I also don't want to be bouncing back and forth between Hayter and whoever does J-Snake.

I was actually hoping this one was English voice actors for all regions.

Xenogears of Bore

Snake's eyes look wrong in Twin Snakes. It really bugs me. Also despite TTS having custom boss music I actually prefer the original amazing boss music. That and no VR missions. I still prefer Twin Snakes by a mile.

astronautcowboy3

I'm surprised the Japanese PS Store doesn't have the integral version, actually. So no VR missions for me either.

The Wolfman

As far as the MGS/TTS debate goes, this would be my opinion/suggestion. Assuming all things equal and free time isn't a factor, play both. If not, but both versions are accessible, I put my vote in the PSX hat. But otherwise, just play whatever one you want. I've also warmed up to TTS, but there's no getting around that there are so many scenes that are just better acted in the PSX version that end up being completely flat in TTS, despite the actors being the same. And for me personally, the story and voice work is almost half the reason I play the series.

In a perfect world, I'd put PSX's voice in TTS's body, but oh well.

SmokeStacks

Oh God... the VA fiasco between the Voice Actors for TTS and Konami. I'd forgotten all about that.

astronautcowboy3

There was a fiasco? Do tell.

CygnusZ

astronautcowboy3 wrote:

I'm surprised the Japanese PS Store doesn't have the integral version, actually. So no VR missions for me either.

Also remember that it has the other big Kojima game, Policenauts, on it.

UnbreakableVow

Elderlycrawfish wrote:

Bursar wrote:

(I liked the Acid games. I realize that makes me a minority. They're definitely non-canon.)

A minority of two! (if I recall, there's quite a few people from G&T that are fans of AC!D2. The_Spaniard even has his own card in the game!)

What? Explain

I loved Acid but never got to play 2

Also do you know how much I can't fucking wait for the HD Collection? 3 is really good, but 2 is the jewel of the series for me and the thought of it in HD with Trophies is like, well, I don't know, a thousand blowjobs or something crazy hyperbolic like that. Plus I never got to play Peace Walker! I wasn't impressed with Portable Ops but I think that was because of the control scheme and limitations of the system.