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Trenches comic: Thursday Sept. 15, 2011

BogeyBogey I'm back, baby!Santa Monica, CAModerator mod
edited September 2011 in The Penny Arcade Hub
i-FgdBP7f.jpg
Triple Play

9/15/2011 - Anonymous

I’ve been working in the game industry for about 21 years now, so I’ve had my fill of experiences testing and otherwise. When everyone asks if it’s cool to test games, they usually don’t imagine playing 1500+ levels of Gauntlet II (or testing it on an original Gameboy with tiled backgrounds - talk about making your eyes bleed. Try playing a game with a patterned, scrolling background on a blurring LCD display) or such hits as Pro Sport Hockey or Dirty Harry.

Anyway, one day I had to head over to a studio that was doing some promotional videos. They were doing a commercial for one of Jaleco’s baseball games (I think it was Super Bases Loaded 2), and since machinima tools weren’t in existence back then, someone had to actually sit through and play the game as it was being recorded. Today, that person was me.

The marketing folk had written up a script, and all I had to do was to complete the actions to match the narration. Reading the script, lo and behold, the third item said the player could even complete an unassisted triple play. Don’t get me wrong, an unassisted triple play is possible, but the circumstances for this to actually occur are so rare that when I saw the words my heart just sort of sank.

I tried to convince them it wasn’t possible in the time frame given, but being a lowly tester, they didn’t exactly listen and demanded I perform for them. A full day of play later with advertising folks breathing down my neck, they finally gave up. I’ve never had a more stressful afternoon.

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Posts

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I wonder if "and then I got fired" got trimmed from the end of that story? ;D

    Oh brilliant
  • MorblitzMorblitz Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    This strip amused me. I like the expression on Isaacs face. I've enjoyed the comic so far. It isn't laugh out loud funny but I haven't been disappointed with it. I don't know what the big deal is about a slow build up and people calling quitsies over it like it's personal. It's free, enjoy it. Or don't, I guess.

    Morblitz on
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  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Unassisted triple plays have happened exactly 15 times in modern MLB history. Asking for one on demand is pretty lolzy.

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    ...In my game testing, made an unassisted triple play.
    I can't believe today was a good day.

    ...

  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    From now on, I just read these stories with the line "And then I got fired" added to the end.

    TFEOM_banner.jpg
  • HarrietHarriet Registered User
    edited September 2011
    jackal wrote:
    ...In my game testing, made an unassisted triple play.
    I can't believe today was a good day.

    ...

    You did a good thing.

    Suppose I said I only recognized that because of Girl Talk. What kind of person would that make me?

    EDIT: Where the mess is my user pic? Also, I approve of this comic and think Morblitz is right on the money. I don't mind the slow build. I'm glad this isn't just Dilbert with weird noses. I like it.

    Harriet on
    Chase_Sig_09-14-11.jpg
  • Human ShieldHuman Shield Registered User
    Slow build up to what? This isn't a build up. What could they possibly be building up to? He's going to get the job (despite the fact that everything about this scenario would never happen: a verbal agreement would never hold up in court and they'd be ripe for a lawsuit from the fired employee), he's going to meet his eccentric and wacky coworkers, he's going to learn the unforgiving nature of the work and either "strive to maintain his sanity in the face of all the wackiness" or "reveal himself to have his own bizarre quirk that makes him a welcome addition to the team". It's so cliche that I already predicted today's strip two days ago after reading that one. And so far the humor is "haha we're drunk", "haha now we're not drunk", "haha your name sounds like I suck cocks", "ha ha he's threatening violence" "haha he broke the law once" etc etc. It makes Blue Collar Comedy look like the Colbert Report. Supposedly, three people have to work together to come up with this. THREE PEOPLE. And they are each apparently credited as experienced hands in the craft of humorous webcomics.

    Thus far, this comic is crap. And I'm not saying that to be a troll. You have no idea how much I want it to be good. It's a comic about my job, a job that most people have misled ideas about. There is so much humor to be found in the interactions of QA with the other elements of a company. There is so much humor to be found in the interview process too, and that's really all we've seen so far. And you know what? Not one strip thus far has managed to show the real humor of interviewing. It's all been horseshit and strained high-school level hyucks. It's almost like they have no real idea how any of this stuff works and are trying to write a comic about it through second-hand knowledge.

    Yes, we get to read this for free. That doesn't mean we can't express our disappointment with it. Shouldn't we be pushing to raise the bar instead of lower it? If all anyone ever did was heap praise, regardless of the actual quality of the work, improvement would be slow or non-existent.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    that blank poster which was once a "no"

    it haunts me

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  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    I like the art, the tester stories are interesting, the comic has potential to be really funny once it gets rolling, and the creators have a proven track record. They do need to get to the point fairly soon but I'm going to continue following it.

    Rhylith - <Shambler Milk> Horde Chogall
  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    I have to say that I am disappointed with the strip so far. The artwork is great but right now there is nothing in the strip that makes it about testing. Right now you could have Issac trying to get a job as a circus performer and not change much in the strip. The only funny joke so far IMO is when that girl got a job because she knew the manager. It was funny because in addition to it being funny in itself, it happens a lot in the games industry so the industry vets got something extra out of it. However so far it is an exception.

    I think part of the problem is that this kind of strip only works when the writer knows his subject, e.g. Dilbert is successful because Scott Adams spent years working in an office environment experiencing first hand the kind of things he would make fun of later. Trenches doesn't have that, it has three guys who while talented, have not even worked in a games company never mind testing AFAIK and it shows.

    Maybe it will get better but at the moment I think the strip is not going anywhere.

    Mc zany on
  • DextolenDextolen Registered User
    I've been coming back mostly for the user narratives.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Yes, we get to read this for free. That doesn't mean we can't express our disappointment with it. Shouldn't we be pushing to raise the bar instead of lower it? If all anyone ever did was heap praise, regardless of the actual quality of the work, improvement would be slow or non-existent.

    I hate to further disappoint you, but your bitching is unlikely to inspire Jerry, Mike and Scott to elevate their game, because none of them ever read the forums on any kind of regular basis.

    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    They couldn't just do a build where the conditions were always set for the triple play

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Gyral wrote:
    From now on, I just read these stories with the line "And then I got fired" added to the end.

    lol... sounds like a meme. a horrible meme. I liked this story though.

    edit: but it's more like "and then I got laid off."

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Jasconius wrote:
    They couldn't just do a build where the conditions were always set for the triple play

    Since it was for an advertisement, couldn't that be considered fraud?

  • Human ShieldHuman Shield Registered User
    Mc zany wrote:
    I think part of the problem is that this kind of strip only works when the writer knows his subject, e.g. Dilbert is successful because Scott Adams spent years working in an office environment experiencing first hand the kind of things he would make fun of later. Trenches doesn't have that, it has three guys who while talented, have not even worked in a games company never mind testing AFAIK and it shows.
    I absolutely agree with you. I was thinking the same thing. You really need to know the subject matter if you're going to be able to find the humor in it. Otherwise, all you get is "My name sounds like I suck cocks haw haw haw" jokes. I'm sure that their connections with game companies has given them access to some stories from QA, but they can't possibly think they know enough of what the job is really like to sustain an ongoing comic. Look at PvP. It's supposed to be about a company that puts out a gaming magazine, but when has anyone in it actually done a single thing related to doing that? Rarely if ever!

    I don't care if they never read this. That means they're never going to read all the gushing fanbois clapping at each fart joke they stick in to keep things fresh either.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote:
    Jasconius wrote:
    They couldn't just do a build where the conditions were always set for the triple play

    Since it was for an advertisement, couldn't that be considered fraud?

    As long as the launch build allows for them, no.

    Also I find the pendulum swinging the other way now, where the stories seem to all fit a very similar mold, while I find myself progressively more invested in the comic.

    Still hoping they scrap the whole thing and put their combined decades of experience into reviving Bogey Golf though

  • tech_huntertech_hunter Registered User regular
    Bogey Golf or even a paint the line series, seriously I would have read either of those and I don't even have much interest in Table Tennis/Line dancing or Golf but both of those concepts were demonstrably funny.

    Sig to mucho Grande!
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    WHY IS THE FRAME ON HIS WALL BLANK

  • HarrietHarriet Registered User
    Thus far, this comic is crap. And I'm not saying that to be a troll.

    I'm going to take you at your word there. I don't think you're trying to troll, but it's obvious that you're very disappointed in the comic and may even be angry that it's not living up to what you think it should be. I'm just wondering, why be angry?

    You say you don't feel Trenches is an accurate representation of your chosen profession and that it feels like it was written through secondhand knowledge. To my understanding, like Mc zany pointed out, that's exactly what's happening. Is that not acceptable? Can they not make the comic they want to make? I may paraphrase here but in one 1st season PATV episode (I believe it was the 4th Panel for Redolent With Spices) Jerry says something like "We make the strip that we are capable of making that day". I think that's pretty applicable not just to their work on Penny Arcade, but to making comics in general. Mike, Jerry, and Scott aren't working at making games like you are (Precipice not withstanding). They haven't been game testers. But still the subject interests them enough that they desire to make a comic about it. If that's their desire then all they can do is tell their story with the tools and experiences available to them.

    Maybe it's not an accurate depiction of your work environment, or any work environment, but why does it have to be? So Trenches doesn't tell your story. So Trenches doesn't tell your jokes. That sucks, considering that's what you want, but there are other people who are happy with Trenches or at least willing to give it a chance. Maybe someday someone will make the comic you're looking for. Maybe Trenches is or will be that comic. It hasn't even gotten into the office proper yet so no one really knows.

    I'm not here to defend the comic or the guys who are making it. At least that wasn't my intention. That's not my job and they probably won't be bothered enough to provide their own feelings on the matter. You certainly can dislike the comic and complain about it all you want. You have that right, and obviously I'm willing to hear you out (nobody that I am). I guess I'm just trying to rationalize for myself how the two of us can view the same material and have such differing opinions of it.

    I suppose the difference is that I am a fanboy. I probably am just enjoying Trenches because of who it's made by. But why are you still here?

    Chase_Sig_09-14-11.jpg
  • ChickeenChickeen Registered User regular
    Kochikens wrote:
    WHY IS THE FRAME ON HIS WALL BLANK
    Because Scott knows it drives some of y'all bonkers.

  • HarrietHarriet Registered User
    Bogey Golf or even a paint the line series, seriously I would have read either of those and I don't even have much interest in Table Tennis/Line dancing or Golf but both of those concepts were demonstrably funny.

    I like Trenches, but I'd give it up for an ongoing Paint the Line.
    Kochikens wrote:
    WHY IS THE FRAME ON HIS WALL BLANK

    Maybe it's a digital picture frame and he changes it relative to his mood? Or maybe Scott just forgot it.

    Chase_Sig_09-14-11.jpg
  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    Although the no frame is blank in a previous comic, in this comic it is a different frame entirely. The 'No' frame was to the boss's left. This frame is to the boss's right.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Let me preface my remarks by saying I don't work in the gaming or QA industry and never have.

    As far as the comic goes, I'm not superexicted by it or anything. It's OK. I continue to check in on it because it's branded with the quality PA name so I'm going to wait for it to get better. But if it was anyone else's comic I would have left by now.

  • the nightwatchmanthe nightwatchman Registered User regular
    I kind of agree with Human Shield. I wouldn't call it "crap" exactly, but I don't think the comic is as funny as I'd hoped. Mostly I think it's just a different style of webcomic than I'm used to reading. These aren't "joke a day" strips, they're more long form. So the strips don't have traditional punchlines. And the whole scenario is more grounded in reality so the opportunities for random humor (Broodax, etc.) aren't quite so easy.
    Harriet wrote:
    I suppose the difference is that I am a fanboy. I probably am just enjoying Trenches because of who it's made by.

    That's how I feel too. I'm trying to envision if someone just randomly linked me to this and I had no knowledge of Mike, Jerry, and Scott, or their previous work. I don't think I'd still be reading (although even then I'd probably at least wait until the story proper gets going, since the first bunch of strips are mainly set-up).
    Harriet wrote:
    But why are you still here?

    I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'm still here because I've seen funny writing from these guys and hope that more of it will show up in these strips once all the characters are introduced.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I still read this comic because I spend way too much on the forums, and the comic is in the forums. If it wasn't, I'd definitely never bother to find the link.

    What is this I don't even.
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote:
    I still read this comic because I spend way too much on the forums, and the comic is in the forums. If it wasn't, I'd definitely never bother to find the link.

    Ha, this is also true for me. I did seek out the trenches website a couple of times in the begining, but at this point if it weren't for the forums I'd never see another strip.

  • HarrietHarriet Registered User
    Mostly I think it's just a different style of webcomic than I'm used to reading.

    This is an argument I can understand. Trenches is a lot like PvP and almost nothing like Penny Arcade. My first introduction to Scott Kurtz was through PA: The Series. He seemed like a funny guy on there so this summer I decided to check out his comic. It was not what I had expected. Still, I knew other people appreciated it (and him) so I wanted to give it (and him) a fair chance. PvP isn't always hilarious. Sometimes it isn't even that funny. But I stick around because I've grown to like the characters and I want to learn more about who they are. PvP wasn't what I had expected or wanted at first, but I didn't call it crap and expect Scott to change it into something else.
    Harriet wrote:
    But why are you still here?

    I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'm still here because I've seen funny writing from these guys and hope that more of it will show up in these strips once all the characters are introduced.

    I'm glad you answered it, because that's my hope too.

    Chase_Sig_09-14-11.jpg
  • HarrietHarriet Registered User
    jackal wrote:
    Although the no frame is blank in a previous comic, in this comic it is a different frame entirely. The 'No' frame was to the boss's left. This frame is to the boss's right.

    It took me a while to figure out that you were speaking as if the world these guys are in is three dimensional. Of course it would be three dimensional to them, that just hadn't crossed my mind for some reason. Now that it has I feel a little weird. Why did I not see that? Maybe because there aren't any shadows? Maybe.

    Chase_Sig_09-14-11.jpg
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote:
    They couldn't just do a build where the conditions were always set for the triple play

    Pay $texas in development and time for yourself to make sure conditions are right to achieve a goal for a commercial.

    or

    Make slave labor do it.

    This is basically what the basis of the testing position is for.

    steam_sig.png
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Does anyone actually still like Kurt's work? I though PvP was pretty universally viewed as having gone tremendously down hill. He's mostly only still relevant because he did such good work early on, and he's buds with G&T. I keep meaning to take pvponline off my comics list, but I just never get around to it.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • MilknutMilknut Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Slow build up to what? This isn't a build up. What could they possibly be building up to? He's going to get the job (despite the fact that everything about this scenario would never happen: a verbal agreement would never hold up in court and they'd be ripe for a lawsuit from the fired employee), he's going to meet his eccentric and wacky coworkers, he's going to learn the unforgiving nature of the work and either "strive to maintain his sanity in the face of all the wackiness" or "reveal himself to have his own bizarre quirk that makes him a welcome addition to the team". It's so cliche that I already predicted today's strip two days ago after reading that one. And so far the humor is "haha we're drunk", "haha now we're not drunk", "haha your name sounds like I suck cocks", "ha ha he's threatening violence" "haha he broke the law once" etc etc. It makes Blue Collar Comedy look like the Colbert Report. Supposedly, three people have to work together to come up with this. THREE PEOPLE. And they are each apparently credited as experienced hands in the craft of humorous webcomics.

    Thus far, this comic is crap. And I'm not saying that to be a troll. You have no idea how much I want it to be good. It's a comic about my job, a job that most people have misled ideas about. There is so much humor to be found in the interactions of QA with the other elements of a company. There is so much humor to be found in the interview process too, and that's really all we've seen so far. And you know what? Not one strip thus far has managed to show the real humor of interviewing. It's all been horseshit and strained high-school level hyucks. It's almost like they have no real idea how any of this stuff works and are trying to write a comic about it through second-hand knowledge.

    Yes, we get to read this for free. That doesn't mean we can't express our disappointment with it. Shouldn't we be pushing to raise the bar instead of lower it? If all anyone ever did was heap praise, regardless of the actual quality of the work, improvement would be slow or non-existent.

    The problem with this is that if you put "haha" in front of every joke and state the punchline in a drab way, it ceases to be funny. Let's use some PA material to prove the point.

    Dickwolves- haha he doesn't want to help him cuz its not in his quest
    CTS- haha hes got a cardboard tube but its likea sword so hes like a samurai
    Fruit Fucker- haha hes a robot that makes juice but hes also like a person having sexual intercourse
    Jesus- haha jesus is jesus but he doesnt act like what you would think jesus would act leik
    Every Early PA Strip Ever- haha John Romero looks kind of feminine
    Every Other Early PA Strip- haha some games have to have patches
    Broodax- haha hes actually a bug alien

    Point: jokes are just as much about presentation as content. I read a hell of a lot of comics online and Trenches is certainly not crap as far as I'm concerned. Yes, it's not really into the flow of things because it's still introducing its characters. Does it have to be laugh-out-loud funny right out of the gate? I say let it tell its story, for crying out loud. Maybe it's not supposed to be uproariously funny every single time. Perhaps there's simply a subtler, underlying environment that is not only humorous but also engaging and interesting in other ways.

    In other words, why should PA create another PA but with continuity? The comic is going to feel very different from PA and maybe that's not appealing to you. But it's appealing to me and I find the charm of the work goes deeper than the actual gags. They aren't intended to be earth-shattering exercises in wit, as far as I can tell. I could be wrong. But to my eye the comic is aimed at a different target and it's meeting my expectations so far.

    This criticism reminds me of the debut of Erfworld, a comic that piggybacked on The Order of the Stick's site for its entire first book and started out with some very negative feedback from the community. However, once it really got going and the beginning was put into the context of the rest of the piece, it quickly took off and remains one of the best comics I read today.

    So give Trenches time, I say. I see potential there and I think you may have to let go of your gag-a-day mentality in order to truly enjoy it.

    Milknut on
    Twenty million kids are eaten by bats every second.
  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    These characters are cute. I like them!

    9KmX8eN.jpg
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    it's okay to not like things...

    but I find it distasteful to come onto a forum the artists themselves provide, at their own expense mind you, and write a 50 page disseration about how much it sucks. fine, you don't like it. fine, you shared your opinion of it, every last tiny bit of your opinion, and then some. I think you've made your point, ok thanks.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    The problem with this is that if you put "haha" in front of every joke and state the punchline in a drab way, it ceases to be funny.

    Writing "Haha" before explaining this comics punchlines are not what removes the funny, it's the fact it hasn't been funny at all. Really, I can't figure out what the comic is trying to *do*. Is it meant to be funny? Is it meant to be just a comic about a guy getting a job in QA with the occasional joke - in which case they've spent WAY too long on build up than is required.

    I mean, I've given it more than a fair go thus far and the only reason I keep reading it is the awful stories - not the comic.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Darkewolfe wrote:
    Does anyone actually still like Kurt's work? I though PvP was pretty universally viewed as having gone tremendously down hill. He's mostly only still relevant because he did such good work early on, and he's buds with G&T. I keep meaning to take pvponline off my comics list, but I just never get around to it.

    His name is Scott Kurtz. Not "Kurt."

    But anyway, you clearly don't like his work, and very few people on this board generally seem to like his work from what I've seen.

    So, offhand, I'd say no, nobody does. Nobody at all, anywhere.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Jasconius wrote:
    They couldn't just do a build where the conditions were always set for the triple play

    Pay $texas in development and time for yourself to make sure conditions are right to achieve a goal for a commercial.

    or

    Make slave labor do it.

    This is basically what the basis of the testing position is for.

    Stick two men on base and put in two line of code so that the ball always goes to the shortstop with runners in motion.

    Yes, $texas, indeed.

    *edit*

    Also this has nothing to do with "oh well if you just work at it you'll eventually get it". You could play a video game of baseball at any level of sophistication in terms of AI and not score an unassisted triple play a century of trying, mostly because they only happen as a direct result of human error.

    The easiest possible unassisted triple play requires:

    1) A hit and run play is called with two men on (1st and 2nd) and nobody out. (A hit and run play is when runners begin running essentially before the ball leaves the pitchers hand)

    2) The ball be scorched on a line drive almost directly to the shortstop

    3) The shortstop catches the ball while moving toward second, steps on second base

    4) and finally without losing momentum, runs toward the 1st base runner and tags him before the runner can get back

    Even if you assume an average un-sanctioned Super Nintendo game had both Hit and Run plays built into the AI and enough speed differential between players for you to actually carry out Step 4 (something I truly doubt), you could play forever and never have it happen.

    The correct course of action is to go to someone in the right department and say "hey, this is impossible, I need a special build", not "aww crap, well I guess I'll give it a try" and then complain about it 20 years later.

    You're basically talking about something that happens roughly once every fifteen thousand baseball games in real life, likely rarer.

    Jasconius on
  • strike_the_tripstrike_the_trip Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    that blank poster which was once a "no"

    it haunts me

    I noticed that, too! What does it all mean??

    Also, unrelatedly, I think some people expected this to be PA2: Teh Strip! It's not. It's not Tycho and Gabe, either. The humor will be different. Jerry mentioned Trenches was going to have "what the kids call 'continuity'" and that involves carrying a story over from strip to strip. I haven't laughed like I do with PA, but I like that they've taken the time to give me an little excursion on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On the other hand, I don't see any problems with people expressing their opinions, negative or otherwise, either. This is a forum folks! :D

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Jasconius wrote:
    The correct course of action is to go to someone in the right department and say "hey, this is impossible, I need a special build", not "aww crap, well I guess I'll give it a try" and then complain about it 20 years later.
    Anonymous wrote:
    I tried to convince them it wasn’t possible in the time frame given, but being a lowly tester, they didn’t exactly listen and demanded I perform for them.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    jwalk wrote:
    it's okay to not like things...

    but I find it distasteful to come onto a forum the artists themselves provide, at their own expense mind you, and write a 50 page disseration about how much it sucks.

    Why? I find negative criticism interesting to read, even when I don't agree with it.

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