Skyward Sword and the DS games were pretty purposefully designed to be different from past games so I guess it's understandable if you don't like them. From my adventures around the internet it seems like a lot of stuff introduced in the three games reflects what people wanted.
For the DS games they fulfilled a wish I heard a lot which was for some sort of central dungeon which you are able to approach differently as you progress through the game.
In Skyward Sword's case they seem to have finally caved to the criticisms of the open worlds in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. The areas in SS are more compact and focused on staying interesting and are more like dungeons themselves. Speaking of dungeons they also gave into the Okami fans and had more integrated dungeons, the fifth act (for lack of a better word) is especially good at this.
For all three I think they did a pretty good job tossing away the traditional Zelda puzzles (though haters would never admit that).
If you were hooked on the open world (as in a big world not GTA-styled) Zelda's and the traditional puzzles of the series then SS is probably a bit jarring. Controls are of course a contentious subject and honestly the debate is getting kinda old.
Still if you like Zelda, I don't see why it wouldn't be worthwhile to go through the game. The new items are cool and aren't instantly tossed aside after the dungeon they appear in (dungeon 4 notwithstanding). The first dungeon and the area leading up to it are pretty dull but then again what forest dungeon hasn't been? The second is a bit better and the third is where hopefully any doubts can be quashed.
There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
In Skyward Sword's case they seem to have finally caved to the criticisms of the open worlds in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. The areas in SS are more compact and focused on staying interesting and are more like dungeons themselves. Speaking of dungeons they also gave into the Okami fans and had more integrated dungeons, the fifth act (for lack of a better word) is especially good at this.
This is a big part of it. One of my most hated designs in games is the corridor, where every location is a tightly constricted movement from one place to another. I hate it in CoD, in Mass Effect, and I hated seeing it in Faron Woods because Zelda's always been about exploration and discovery to me. It's constricted and artificial, and I hate feeling like the designers are moving me from one point to another, rather than giving me a big area to move about as I please.
Controls are of course a contentious subject and honestly the debate is getting kinda old.
Even before I got the game I was sick of seeing debates about controls. I only want to throw my vote in the "don't like" pile, and I'll leave it at that.
Still if you like Zelda, I don't see why it wouldn't be worthwhile to go through the game. The new items are cool and aren't instantly tossed aside after the dungeon they appear in (dungeon 4 notwithstanding). The first dungeon and the area leading up to it are pretty dull but then again what forest dungeon hasn't been? The second is a bit better and the third is where hopefully any doubts can be quashed.
I guess I can give it three dungeons. I want to like it, but then, I wanted to like TP and ST too, and finishing them didn't help. Oh well, three dungeons.
My only gripe is how often the wiimote loses focus and makes you realign by pressing down. I've hammered out the rest of the control issues and can safely say I was just bad as now I can control this blade exactly as I want without sending mixed signals.
Edit: As far as open world goes SS feels like a compromise between wind waker and it's series of coridor roots.
I got this earlier in the week but wanted to save it for the weekend to devote a big chunk of time to it. OoT and MM are probably my favourite games ever, and I am a definite Zelda fanboy. But after about 5 hours of Skyward Sword I have been bored for about 4 hours 50 minutes. The overworld is tiny and boring, anything more than 10 metres away is a blurry mess, the puzzles are boring, the combat's boring, the motion controls add nothing of interest, and every implementation I've seen outside sword fighting is significantly worse than just using a button. Balancing myself as I cross a rope? What the fuck? Does anyone find that fun, challenging, or anything other than a stalling tactic? I thought the sword fighting was going to be fun, but it's just dull, and it's still too imprecise to be worthwhile.
After TP and Spirit Tracks, this will be the third Zelda game in a row that I've just found really dull and had to force myself to continue playing. It makes me sad to say it, but I think I'm just going to give up on Zelda now, I can't see myself ever finishing this because I've played it for four sessions and ended every one by thinking 'Fuck it'. I had to check a guide in the first temple because the hint was to keep looking around, there were two switches to find. But oh, hey, turns out they meant two switches in the previous room, only one in the room I was in. Fighting the first boss I must have hit him 10-20 times and the fight kept going, at some point it becomes boring and repetitive and I just want to move on. If I've managed to hit him so many times, and he's got nothing else to change it up, then it's time to move on. And fuck dowsing. I walk into a small, linear, corridor-like part of the overworld, and it starts flashing and beeping at me until I press it so I know I'm meant to move down the corridor. Oh really? Thanks, couldn't figure that out. And the only reason I'm not mentioning all the slow, repeated text, incessant hand-holding, and all the other shit that treats me like a 5 year old, is I know that it's been said before. Nonetheless, it really shits me.
Back in primary school I lived and breathed Zelda, I'd draw the triforce on my hand at lunch and make cardboard shields with the Hyrule emblem on them, which is the only reason I've stuck with the series after two shitty boring games, but three in a row? It makes me equal parts sad and cranky to have to give up one of my favourite series.
tl;dr Skyward Sword is dull, boring, and at its best vaguely annoying.
Sounds like Zelda's just not for you anymore. Sad.
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Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
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My only gripe is how often the wiimote loses focus and makes you realign by pressing down. I've hammered out the rest of the control issues and can safely say I was just bad as now I can control this blade exactly as I want without sending mixed signals.
Edit: As far as open world goes SS feels like a compromise between wind waker and it's series of coridor roots.
One thing to note is that the Wii remote automatically centers itself when you do something that requires aiming. So make sure you are already pointing at the TV before selected a weapon.
There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
In Skyward Sword's case they seem to have finally caved to the criticisms of the open worlds in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. The areas in SS are more compact and focused on staying interesting and are more like dungeons themselves. Speaking of dungeons they also gave into the Okami fans and had more integrated dungeons, the fifth act (for lack of a better word) is especially good at this.
Wait, there are idiots who criticize the open world parts of previous Zelda games?
They're up there with people who didn't like Wind Waker's art style in the scale of being spectacularly wrong
In Skyward Sword's case they seem to have finally caved to the criticisms of the open worlds in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. The areas in SS are more compact and focused on staying interesting and are more like dungeons themselves. Speaking of dungeons they also gave into the Okami fans and had more integrated dungeons, the fifth act (for lack of a better word) is especially good at this.
This is a big part of it. One of my most hated designs in games is the corridor, where every location is a tightly constricted movement from one place to another. I hate it in CoD, in Mass Effect, and I hated seeing it in Faron Woods because Zelda's always been about exploration and discovery to me. It's constricted and artificial, and I hate feeling like the designers are moving me from one point to another, rather than giving me a big area to move about as I please.
Skyward Sword isn't really more constrictive than previous Zelda titles. How much of the world could you really fully explore at the beginning of any given Zelda game?
"Hm, what's over there? Oh..a wall I need to blast away with bombs. Guess I'll come back later.
Hm, what's over there? Oh, a gorge I can only cross with the hookshot. Guess I'll come back later."
There's the kind-of-sane critique of an open world that it feels "empty". This is something Wind Waker and Twilight Princess got points docked for here and there around the world.
And then there's the balls to the wall position that open world Zelda flat out sucks. There's no justifying that.
Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.
Fair enough. Took me a real long time to figure out what I had to do in that fight as well.
I went through all my arrows, nuts, bombs and tried out all the items to see what the hell would dent that bug. Tried constant empowered swings and shield reflecting his shots back at him and nothing would work.
It was finally in a moment of frustration where I spin slash reflected the shot back at him that allowed me to figure out how to beat him.
That was pretty much my exact process as well. It's like they designed that fight specifically to mess with veterans.
Heeeey, check out this greaaaaaat biiiiiiiiig eye! Betcha want to smack it around, huh?
I'm not sure I've ever seen a post so objectively wrong before. You couldn't figure out the first puzzle, and that's somehow the game's fault.
I couldn't figure it out, or the game was telling me to look in the wrong room? In either case, yes I am objectively wrong for disliking a game. Thank you for deigning to pass your exulted and unbiased knowledge onto me, for it is surely objective truth.
Disliking a game isn't objectively wrong. Saying the controls don't work or add anything is objectively wrong. Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong. Saying the combat is boring and dull is objectively wrong. Complaining about the 5 hours of hand-holding and then being unable to use the controls and solve the first real puzzle is contradictive. The criticism is like criticizing a cupcake for not being fried chicken and not tasting like fried chicken. You're simply doing it wrong.
I guess what I'm saying is there is a phenomenal game in there that controls well, is challenging, and allows for tons of combat variation and exploration. It just requires actually learning how to do it right, which is what the five hours of guided play are supposed to help teach.
There are some basic nuances to the controls that take either some careful reading or some figuring out:
Menus and any aiming item: They don't use the IR pointer. It centers on whatever position your remote is in when you access them. So don't expect to point at center of the screen and have the cursor in the center of the screen. Press D-Down to recenter if you need to, but it's easier to just get used to starting at the center.
Swordplay: If it ever feels off, do three consecutive vertical strikes and it'll recenter on your hold position.
Flying: Flap the wings (literally, point remote down, point remote up, repeat as desired) to gain altitude. From there, flying is easy to control. This is probably the biggest thing people don't pick up and then complain about the flying being terrible.
Enemies with swords that respond to your sword positioning: If you hold your sword position for a few seconds, they'll establish their defense as well. From there, it's just re-positioning your sword fairly quickly for a strike to an area they left vulnerable.
Yeah you don't need to flap, just move the wii remote down, then up... You can't just waggle up and down and expect it to work... Point it down, then point it up. Bam.
Clarified. It took me a bit to get the hang of it, but it really controls well once you get the hang of gaining altitude.
It doesn't control well, so much as it controls "okay." Before you figure that out, it's pretty terrible. Afterwards it's passable, in my opinion.
I don't think they did well with the sword control. The enemies that block due to sword position are annoying. If you try to move your position too quickly, the game registers that as a strike which fucks up the whole program. They should have made the B button on the bottom of the remote the "attack" button so the game knows when you're trying to swing the sword at an enemy. Hold "B" and swing the wiimote to attack, that kind of thing.
As it is, it's very frustrating to fight those enemies.
I'm still early in, but I'm finding the very small overworld to be disappointing. My favorite games in the series are the original and A Link to the Past.
Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong.
No the overworld is genuinely tiny and boring
It's just not true. It's a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess, yes, but also has about double the stuff to do. It's definitely larger than Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, and is likely larger than the combined land mass of Wind Waker with at least as much stuff to do, if not more.
Tiny is an invalid word to use. It may seem smaller, but it's largely because the game makes it much easier to get around quickly with dashing and flying stones.
Boring is largely subjective, but in terms of things to do in the overworld and general puzzles associated with it, it's right up there with Wind Waker and Link to the Past.
And I'm going to continue to adamantly disagree with anyone who says the controls simply don't work, because I have first hand observation of a four year old that has absolutely no trouble doing the same controls that people say don't work well. It's not the controls not working well, it's just either not using the controls correctly, or being so used to button controls that having to relearn a completely new control scheme becomes bothersome and they'd rather just cop out and go back to what's familiar to them.
Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong.
No the overworld is genuinely tiny and boring
It's just not true. It's a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess, yes, but also has about double the stuff to do. It's definitely larger than Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, and is likely larger than the combined land mass of Wind Waker with at least as much stuff to do, if not more.
Tiny is an invalid word to use. It may seem smaller, but it's largely because the game makes it much easier to get around quickly with dashing and flying stones.
Boring is largely subjective, but in terms of things to do in the overworld and general puzzles associated with it, it's right up there with Wind Waker and Link to the Past.
What constitutes the "overworld" here? Just the sky, or everything that's not a dungeon? That might be the point of contention.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong.
No the overworld is genuinely tiny and boring
It's just not true. It's a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess, yes, but also has about double the stuff to do. It's definitely larger than Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, and is likely larger than the combined land mass of Wind Waker with at least as much stuff to do, if not more.
Tiny is an invalid word to use. It may seem smaller, but it's largely because the game makes it much easier to get around quickly with dashing and flying stones.
Boring is largely subjective, but in terms of things to do in the overworld and general puzzles associated with it, it's right up there with Wind Waker and Link to the Past.
What constitutes the "overworld" here? Just the sky, or everything that's not a dungeon? That might be the point of contention.
I consider the sky the overworld (And yes, it's tiny. Especially compared to Wind Waker's ocean). The ground is all part of the dungeon foreplay, as it were, in my opinion.
I don't have a huge problem with it, but I do miss Wind Waker's vast sea full of random surprised.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
The Great Sea is way overrated and barren as hell, I don't know how its reputation has increased so much over the years.
I disagree. I found fun things out in the ocean for hours and hours. You don't have to appreciate it as much as I do, but saying it's barren is just factually wrong. There were sunken treasures all over, tons of pirate ships and little islands with things to fully explore. So much more than the tiny islands with nothing but a treasure chest or one baddie in Skyward Sword.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
my #1 problem with it is that there is too much space between the parts that are interesting, I don't think they would have lost anything by condensing it to the size of Skyward's sky
my #2 problem is that most of the little islands and pirate ships reeked of Oblivion in that they were all basically the same thing and once you've seen one or two, you've seen them all. sunken treasure is eh, the occasional enemy fort is annoying. of the 49 squares, there were probably less than 15 that were really worth visiting
I agree that the Sky isn't much more interesting, but at least it isn't a chore to get around.
Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong.
No the overworld is genuinely tiny and boring
It's just not true. It's a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess, yes, but also has about double the stuff to do. It's definitely larger than Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, and is likely larger than the combined land mass of Wind Waker with at least as much stuff to do, if not more.
Tiny is an invalid word to use. It may seem smaller, but it's largely because the game makes it much easier to get around quickly with dashing and flying stones.
Boring is largely subjective, but in terms of things to do in the overworld and general puzzles associated with it, it's right up there with Wind Waker and Link to the Past.
What constitutes the "overworld" here? Just the sky, or everything that's not a dungeon? That might be the point of contention.
I consider the sky the overworld (And yes, it's tiny. Especially compared to Wind Waker's ocean).
I want to see more bitching about OoT's Hyrule Field and Termina Field from MM if people about complaining about the sky.
Since you don't consider the pre-dungeon stuff on the ground to be part of the "overworld" then we shouldn't be including things like the Pirate Fortress, Ikana Canyon/Keep, etc. as part of the overworld, either.
The Great Sea is way overrated and barren as hell, I don't know how its reputation has increased so much over the years.
Nostalgia filter is my guess. The Great Sea starts off looking like a good idea, and the more you use it the more you can't wait to be able to teleport everywhere and skip as much of the sailing as you can.
Barrakketh on
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong.
No the overworld is genuinely tiny and boring
It's just not true. It's a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess, yes, but also has about double the stuff to do. It's definitely larger than Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, and is likely larger than the combined land mass of Wind Waker with at least as much stuff to do, if not more.
Tiny is an invalid word to use. It may seem smaller, but it's largely because the game makes it much easier to get around quickly with dashing and flying stones.
Boring is largely subjective, but in terms of things to do in the overworld and general puzzles associated with it, it's right up there with Wind Waker and Link to the Past.
What constitutes the "overworld" here? Just the sky, or everything that's not a dungeon? That might be the point of contention.
I consider the sky the overworld (And yes, it's tiny. Especially compared to Wind Waker's ocean).
I want to see more bitching about OoT's Hyrule Field and Termina Field from MM if people about complaining about the sky.
Since you don't consider the pre-dungeon stuff on the ground to be part of the "overworld" then we shouldn't be including things like the Pirate Fortress, Ikana Canyon/Keep, etc. as part of the overworld, either.
The Great Sea is way overrated and barren as hell, I don't know how its reputation has increased so much over the years.
Nostalgia filter is my guess. The Great Sea starts off looking like a good idea, and the more you use it the more you can't wait to be able to teleport everywhere and skip as much of the sailing as you can.
I just want to point out that I think SS is fantastic. I just think the sky/overworld is a little gimped. And yes, I consider all the stuff on the ground almost part of the dungeons more than part of the overworld. But that's not a bad thing at all. I actually like the smoother flow from "overworld" to "dungeon."
And yeah, maybe I'm one of the few people who just loved sailing in WW. I would never want to fast travel anywhere. Sailing just tingled the right part of my brain, I guess. The bird in SS is still fun and all, and I have no issues with it, aside from wishing there was a bit more to explore in the sky, but the boat just did it for me.
And for the record, it's not nostalgia. I replayed Wind Waker a couple months ago and still loved every second of the sailing. But I do recognize that not everyone is so fond of it, and that's cool. I'm just glad I got it.
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Zelda just had a weird thing last gen where they felt like because they could make the overworld huge, they should. Hyrule and Termina Field were just the right size but I wonder how much of that was technical limitations. I find sailing and TP horse riding great in small doses, but both games require large doses.
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
Many, I've made it past half way in Hero mode. The game is much more fun for me on a second play-through. Mostly because of some simple mistakes I made the first time playing through:
Namely:
Cubes and Chests
The very first chest I opened was a silver rupee, so naturally I assumed all the Goddess chests were just monies, so I didn't open any more until after the 7th dungeon.
Wallets
Because I already knew where most of the Gratitude crystals were, I had a very nice sized wallet at the very beginning of the game. So I've been buying up all of Beedle's stuff as I've gone. I'm only missing the Heart Piece now, and I only have Farore's Fire.
Starting Hero Mode
The only thing I wish I knew before I went into Hero mode was that all of your bugs and ingredients carry over to the next save. So you can have the stuff ready to upgrade your items as you get them on the Hero mode.
Finally, Heart Medals
It mentions that you would very rarely see heart flowers and random hearts in the game when you hold this item. This was a joke. The moment after I equipped it, I saw plants everywhere, and a single patch of grass would yield 3 hearts. I put this item away shortly after, as it took the Hero out of Hero mode.
I don't inherently dislike sailing as a concept. It's like what's already been mentioned; there just isn't many interesting stuff to discover. The 2/3/4/5/6 eye reefs are especially erroneous inclusions which take up a whole square. There isn't much to do in SS's overworld either, but at least it doesn't take long to get to places. Plus, you can travel at a relaxing pace without getting attacked by sharks. I loved rotating the camera to view the waves, the sky, the accompanying seagulls and Link's expression who clearly enjoys sailing, but then the enemy approach sound effect comes in and ruins the atmosphere. This happens far too often.
Every one of those little floating rocks that have nothing but an octorok shooting at you? Each of those should've been little islands with a bombable wall, a simple arrow puzzle, an NPC, etc.
Overall the sky only had as much content as OoT Hyrule Field, that is to say, basically nothing at all. Hyrule Field had holes where you could find little chests or heart pieces, the sky's got goddess chests. Both are just the emptiness in between areas of interest.
Skyward Sword has the edge with its ground areas, though. It's like the short path in OoT on the way to Zora's domain only a million times more interesting.
So far the only puzzles I've seen have been 'hit the switch' or 'push a block', but I'm early enough that I'll take your word on that.
Spoilers on common Zelda puzzles you will not be seeing:
There aren't any "light a stick on fire and use it to light torches" puzzles, and there aren't any "step on the switch and listen to a tick-tock sound count down while you run to wherever you're supposed to go" puzzles.
Of course now you're going to be looking for them and I may have forgotten an instance of the latter one. I know for a fact that there aren't any traditional torch lighting puzzles, though, which considering their ubiquitousness in other 3D Zeldas, is a substantial departure from their typical fare and shows real effort in puzzle design to not fall back on old tropes.
Disliking a game isn't objectively wrong. Saying the controls don't work or add anything is objectively wrong. Saying the overworld is tiny and boring is objectively wrong. Saying the combat is boring and dull is objectively wrong. Complaining about the 5 hours of hand-holding and then being unable to use the controls and solve the first real puzzle is contradictive. The criticism is like criticizing a cupcake for not being fried chicken and not tasting like fried chicken. You're simply doing it wrong.
I guess what I'm saying is there is a phenomenal game in there that controls well, is challenging, and allows for tons of combat variation and exploration. It just requires actually learning how to do it right, which is what the five hours of guided play are supposed to help teach.
Outside of swordfighting, motion controls don't add anything - flying the bird, guiding the beetle, balancing on ropes (which shouldn't even be in it) could all be done (better) with a joystick. My issues with swordfighting are with the mechanics of it, not the controls. I think it would be better if they'd gone in a different direction, but I'm not criticising the motion part, but the gameplay it leads to. 'Enemy is blocking left so you should attack right' or 'enemy is weak to vertical/horizontal attacks' is not really interesting to me. I don't know where you got 'unable to use the controls' from, I can handle them just fine, but I don't care for them. One attack button has been replaced by... 9? Most of the time any of those 9 will do, but every now and then you are told to do a specific one. There are no interesting decisions to be made there, and 'interesting decisions' is what I believe is the most important part of good gameplay.
I don't think I said the overworld is tiny, I said it's linear and artificial. It's a series of cramped corridors; rather than something to be explored it is something to be followed. I'm talking about Faron Woods here, not the sky. It's not the design I want from Zelda, and I dislike it. Dowsing makes it worse, reminding me to travel down the linear corridor in the only way that's possible anyway. It reminds me of Fable, where the world was just a bunch of corridors with occasional little rooms, and for all Fable did that I like I hated the world design.
And my problem with the puzzle wasn't that I couldn't figure it out. There was a tablet that said something like "Two switches, one above and one below". I jumped down from the tablet and hit a switch, which raised the water a bit, but not enough to get to the back of the room, obviously I need to hit another switch to raise it a bit more. Then I looked above me and couldn't see anything. I asked Fi for a hint, and she said something like "Use C to look around". So I looked around that room. I looked all around the walls and the ceiling and couldn't find anything. I check a guide, and it turns out I need to go back to the previous room, there are two switches there, one above and one below.
I was going to point out other games I've finished to prove that I'm capable of solving that puzzle, but fuck that: Anyone smart enough to type words on the internet can figure out that "two switches, one above and one below" means you need to hit two switches, one above and one below. It's not even a puzzle, it's an instruction. I am perfectly capable of figuring that out. The problem was that it told me to hit two switches, I hit one but couldn't find a second, because it didn't tell me to hit two switches in a different room. If there were no switches in that room I would have been fine, but when I found one I naturally expected to find a second.
If we're doing food metaphors, Skyward Sword is a cupcake, but before I could eat it I had to sit through 5 hours of lectures about good diets and exercise, and an instructional video on how to remove the paper without leaving any one the cupcake or getting a papercut. And they keep telling me it's gluten and dairy free, which is great for some people but I don't care.
Not to give you a hard time, but if I remember that puzzle correctly then I think the hint was phrased in such a way as to imply that it wasn't necessarily that room. I can't remember exactly from memory, but that was the impression I got when I did it the first time. I don't know how far you are in the game yet, but it sounds like it's just the first dungeon down. That one is kind of a straight forward affair, and I'd say it is pretty weak compared to the others--that's probably because it's getting you acclimated with the gameplay. About your fight with the first boss though...
How did you go about fighting Ghirahim? It was hard when I first did it, but that's because I hadn't figured out how to strike him yet. Afterward, it wasn't so bad.
Also, learn to abuse the shield bash. That never stops being practical. Ever.
Edit: On an unrelated note, my brother discovered something neat while playing. If you turn your controller sideways, it seems to let you move your sword quickly without necessarily registering as an attack. I can't say if that works consistently though, but he seemed to be doing okay.
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I got kinda annoyed when I figured out that the switches were the two in the previous room that I'd already hit. "Wait, those were meant to be hidden?"
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For the DS games they fulfilled a wish I heard a lot which was for some sort of central dungeon which you are able to approach differently as you progress through the game.
In Skyward Sword's case they seem to have finally caved to the criticisms of the open worlds in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. The areas in SS are more compact and focused on staying interesting and are more like dungeons themselves. Speaking of dungeons they also gave into the Okami fans and had more integrated dungeons, the fifth act (for lack of a better word) is especially good at this.
For all three I think they did a pretty good job tossing away the traditional Zelda puzzles (though haters would never admit that).
If you were hooked on the open world (as in a big world not GTA-styled) Zelda's and the traditional puzzles of the series then SS is probably a bit jarring. Controls are of course a contentious subject and honestly the debate is getting kinda old.
Still if you like Zelda, I don't see why it wouldn't be worthwhile to go through the game. The new items are cool and aren't instantly tossed aside after the dungeon they appear in (dungeon 4 notwithstanding). The first dungeon and the area leading up to it are pretty dull but then again what forest dungeon hasn't been? The second is a bit better and the third is where hopefully any doubts can be quashed.
This is a big part of it. One of my most hated designs in games is the corridor, where every location is a tightly constricted movement from one place to another. I hate it in CoD, in Mass Effect, and I hated seeing it in Faron Woods because Zelda's always been about exploration and discovery to me. It's constricted and artificial, and I hate feeling like the designers are moving me from one point to another, rather than giving me a big area to move about as I please.
So far the only puzzles I've seen have been 'hit the switch' or 'push a block', but I'm early enough that I'll take your word on that.
Even before I got the game I was sick of seeing debates about controls. I only want to throw my vote in the "don't like" pile, and I'll leave it at that.
I guess I can give it three dungeons. I want to like it, but then, I wanted to like TP and ST too, and finishing them didn't help. Oh well, three dungeons.
Edit: As far as open world goes SS feels like a compromise between wind waker and it's series of coridor roots.
Sounds like Zelda's just not for you anymore. Sad.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
One thing to note is that the Wii remote automatically centers itself when you do something that requires aiming. So make sure you are already pointing at the TV before selected a weapon.
Wait, there are idiots who criticize the open world parts of previous Zelda games?
They're up there with people who didn't like Wind Waker's art style in the scale of being spectacularly wrong
XBL, Steam & Tribes: elmartino333
Skyward Sword isn't really more constrictive than previous Zelda titles. How much of the world could you really fully explore at the beginning of any given Zelda game?
"Hm, what's over there? Oh..a wall I need to blast away with bombs. Guess I'll come back later.
Hm, what's over there? Oh, a gorge I can only cross with the hookshot. Guess I'll come back later."
And then there's the balls to the wall position that open world Zelda flat out sucks. There's no justifying that.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
That was pretty much my exact process as well. It's like they designed that fight specifically to mess with veterans.
I guess what I'm saying is there is a phenomenal game in there that controls well, is challenging, and allows for tons of combat variation and exploration. It just requires actually learning how to do it right, which is what the five hours of guided play are supposed to help teach.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
Menus and any aiming item: They don't use the IR pointer. It centers on whatever position your remote is in when you access them. So don't expect to point at center of the screen and have the cursor in the center of the screen. Press D-Down to recenter if you need to, but it's easier to just get used to starting at the center.
Swordplay: If it ever feels off, do three consecutive vertical strikes and it'll recenter on your hold position.
Flying: Flap the wings (literally, point remote down, point remote up, repeat as desired) to gain altitude. From there, flying is easy to control. This is probably the biggest thing people don't pick up and then complain about the flying being terrible.
Enemies with swords that respond to your sword positioning: If you hold your sword position for a few seconds, they'll establish their defense as well. From there, it's just re-positioning your sword fairly quickly for a strike to an area they left vulnerable.
It doesn't control well, so much as it controls "okay." Before you figure that out, it's pretty terrible. Afterwards it's passable, in my opinion.
I don't think they did well with the sword control. The enemies that block due to sword position are annoying. If you try to move your position too quickly, the game registers that as a strike which fucks up the whole program. They should have made the B button on the bottom of the remote the "attack" button so the game knows when you're trying to swing the sword at an enemy. Hold "B" and swing the wiimote to attack, that kind of thing.
As it is, it's very frustrating to fight those enemies.
I'm still early in, but I'm finding the very small overworld to be disappointing. My favorite games in the series are the original and A Link to the Past.
Moving the wiimote from side-to-side works a lot better for me, and it throws you much less off course.
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I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
What, you think I'm gonna stop playing over that irritant? Dude, I played through FF8. I've got miles of patience. Miles.
Just sucks that I can't play it with my less patient friends who played through the slowest fucking intro in Zelda history.
No the overworld is genuinely tiny and boring
XBL, Steam & Tribes: elmartino333
Tiny is an invalid word to use. It may seem smaller, but it's largely because the game makes it much easier to get around quickly with dashing and flying stones.
Boring is largely subjective, but in terms of things to do in the overworld and general puzzles associated with it, it's right up there with Wind Waker and Link to the Past.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
What constitutes the "overworld" here? Just the sky, or everything that's not a dungeon? That might be the point of contention.
I consider the sky the overworld (And yes, it's tiny. Especially compared to Wind Waker's ocean). The ground is all part of the dungeon foreplay, as it were, in my opinion.
I don't have a huge problem with it, but I do miss Wind Waker's vast sea full of random surprised.
this seems to be the most common problem from my experience
I disagree. I found fun things out in the ocean for hours and hours. You don't have to appreciate it as much as I do, but saying it's barren is just factually wrong. There were sunken treasures all over, tons of pirate ships and little islands with things to fully explore. So much more than the tiny islands with nothing but a treasure chest or one baddie in Skyward Sword.
my #2 problem is that most of the little islands and pirate ships reeked of Oblivion in that they were all basically the same thing and once you've seen one or two, you've seen them all. sunken treasure is eh, the occasional enemy fort is annoying. of the 49 squares, there were probably less than 15 that were really worth visiting
I agree that the Sky isn't much more interesting, but at least it isn't a chore to get around.
Since you don't consider the pre-dungeon stuff on the ground to be part of the "overworld" then we shouldn't be including things like the Pirate Fortress, Ikana Canyon/Keep, etc. as part of the overworld, either.
Nostalgia filter is my guess. The Great Sea starts off looking like a good idea, and the more you use it the more you can't wait to be able to teleport everywhere and skip as much of the sailing as you can.
I just want to point out that I think SS is fantastic. I just think the sky/overworld is a little gimped. And yes, I consider all the stuff on the ground almost part of the dungeons more than part of the overworld. But that's not a bad thing at all. I actually like the smoother flow from "overworld" to "dungeon."
And yeah, maybe I'm one of the few people who just loved sailing in WW. I would never want to fast travel anywhere. Sailing just tingled the right part of my brain, I guess. The bird in SS is still fun and all, and I have no issues with it, aside from wishing there was a bit more to explore in the sky, but the boat just did it for me.
And for the record, it's not nostalgia. I replayed Wind Waker a couple months ago and still loved every second of the sailing. But I do recognize that not everyone is so fond of it, and that's cool. I'm just glad I got it.
Namely:
Cubes and Chests
Wallets
Starting Hero Mode
Finally, Heart Medals
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Every one of those little floating rocks that have nothing but an octorok shooting at you? Each of those should've been little islands with a bombable wall, a simple arrow puzzle, an NPC, etc.
Overall the sky only had as much content as OoT Hyrule Field, that is to say, basically nothing at all. Hyrule Field had holes where you could find little chests or heart pieces, the sky's got goddess chests. Both are just the emptiness in between areas of interest.
Skyward Sword has the edge with its ground areas, though. It's like the short path in OoT on the way to Zora's domain only a million times more interesting.
Spoilers on common Zelda puzzles you will not be seeing:
Of course now you're going to be looking for them and I may have forgotten an instance of the latter one. I know for a fact that there aren't any traditional torch lighting puzzles, though, which considering their ubiquitousness in other 3D Zeldas, is a substantial departure from their typical fare and shows real effort in puzzle design to not fall back on old tropes.
Outside of swordfighting, motion controls don't add anything - flying the bird, guiding the beetle, balancing on ropes (which shouldn't even be in it) could all be done (better) with a joystick. My issues with swordfighting are with the mechanics of it, not the controls. I think it would be better if they'd gone in a different direction, but I'm not criticising the motion part, but the gameplay it leads to. 'Enemy is blocking left so you should attack right' or 'enemy is weak to vertical/horizontal attacks' is not really interesting to me. I don't know where you got 'unable to use the controls' from, I can handle them just fine, but I don't care for them. One attack button has been replaced by... 9? Most of the time any of those 9 will do, but every now and then you are told to do a specific one. There are no interesting decisions to be made there, and 'interesting decisions' is what I believe is the most important part of good gameplay.
I don't think I said the overworld is tiny, I said it's linear and artificial. It's a series of cramped corridors; rather than something to be explored it is something to be followed. I'm talking about Faron Woods here, not the sky. It's not the design I want from Zelda, and I dislike it. Dowsing makes it worse, reminding me to travel down the linear corridor in the only way that's possible anyway. It reminds me of Fable, where the world was just a bunch of corridors with occasional little rooms, and for all Fable did that I like I hated the world design.
And my problem with the puzzle wasn't that I couldn't figure it out. There was a tablet that said something like "Two switches, one above and one below". I jumped down from the tablet and hit a switch, which raised the water a bit, but not enough to get to the back of the room, obviously I need to hit another switch to raise it a bit more. Then I looked above me and couldn't see anything. I asked Fi for a hint, and she said something like "Use C to look around". So I looked around that room. I looked all around the walls and the ceiling and couldn't find anything. I check a guide, and it turns out I need to go back to the previous room, there are two switches there, one above and one below.
I was going to point out other games I've finished to prove that I'm capable of solving that puzzle, but fuck that: Anyone smart enough to type words on the internet can figure out that "two switches, one above and one below" means you need to hit two switches, one above and one below. It's not even a puzzle, it's an instruction. I am perfectly capable of figuring that out. The problem was that it told me to hit two switches, I hit one but couldn't find a second, because it didn't tell me to hit two switches in a different room. If there were no switches in that room I would have been fine, but when I found one I naturally expected to find a second.
If we're doing food metaphors, Skyward Sword is a cupcake, but before I could eat it I had to sit through 5 hours of lectures about good diets and exercise, and an instructional video on how to remove the paper without leaving any one the cupcake or getting a papercut. And they keep telling me it's gluten and dairy free, which is great for some people but I don't care.
Edit: On an unrelated note, my brother discovered something neat while playing. If you turn your controller sideways, it seems to let you move your sword quickly without necessarily registering as an attack. I can't say if that works consistently though, but he seemed to be doing okay.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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