I don't understand why these people are fighting so hard to survive. They seem to have no goals outside of survival itself. Spend the rest of your life in the arms of a beautiful woman? Nope, sorry babe, too busy surviving. I've read the comics and I have the same problem there, too. Kirkman is just wrong. Rape and pillaging would be a huge problem, yes, but nothing that humanity hasn't been dealing with for centuries. People living right now in some countries have it much worse than anything we've seen on TWD and they still form communities and deal with strangers. They don't hide from humanity like an even shittier version of M. Night's The Village.
A horrendous rotting zombie isn't fire. Kids underestimate fire. Even at 12, you would have to be borderline retarded, psychotic, and fearless to underestimate a zombie that looked like the one Carl played with.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I don't understand why these people are fighting so hard to survive. They seem to have no goals outside of survival itself. Spend the rest of your life in the arms of a beautiful woman? Nope, sorry babe, too busy surviving. I've read the comics and I have the same problem there, too. Kirkman is just wrong. Rape and pillaging would be a huge problem, yes, but nothing that humanity hasn't been dealing with for centuries. People living right now in some countries have it much worse than anything we've seen on TWD and they still form communities and deal with strangers. They don't hide from humanity like an even shittier version of M. Night's The Village.
I would like it if at some point the crew set up a proper community for themselves that they defend and let others join. Not on the farm, though, it's a bit boring. Preferably they'd clear out a small town or something that is near a bigger town so they can go gather food and supplies and have crazy adventures while the less worthy characters stay in the community and talk about things.
I don't understand why these people are fighting so hard to survive. They seem to have no goals outside of survival itself. Spend the rest of your life in the arms of a beautiful woman? Nope, sorry babe, too busy surviving. I've read the comics and I have the same problem there, too. Kirkman is just wrong. Rape and pillaging would be a huge problem, yes, but nothing that humanity hasn't been dealing with for centuries. People living right now in some countries have it much worse than anything we've seen on TWD and they still form communities and deal with strangers. They don't hide from humanity like an even shittier version of M. Night's The Village.
I would like it if at some point the crew set up a proper community for themselves that they defend and let others join. Not on the farm, though, it's a bit boring. Preferably they'd clear out a small town or something that is near a bigger town so they can go gather food and supplies and have crazy adventures while the less worthy characters stay in the community and talk about things.
Coming in season 5, the walking dead "Secondary characters stuck in an elevator while the stars are on vacation episode! Shenanigans ensue!"
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I don't understand why these people are fighting so hard to survive. They seem to have no goals outside of survival itself. Spend the rest of your life in the arms of a beautiful woman? Nope, sorry babe, too busy surviving. I've read the comics and I have the same problem there, too. Kirkman is just wrong. Rape and pillaging would be a huge problem, yes, but nothing that humanity hasn't been dealing with for centuries. People living right now in some countries have it much worse than anything we've seen on TWD and they still form communities and deal with strangers. They don't hide from humanity like an even shittier version of M. Night's The Village.
I would like it if at some point the crew set up a proper community for themselves that they defend and let others join. Not on the farm, though, it's a bit boring. Preferably they'd clear out a small town or something that is near a bigger town so they can go gather food and supplies and have crazy adventures while the less worthy characters stay in the community and talk about things.
Isn't this basically what's happening in the comics right now?
The one other thing I thought of that really, really irks me is that Lori loves to go on and on and ON about a "womans job". the women should be cleaning. The women should be cooking. The women should be doing laundry.
But apparently the women shouldn't be watching the children, which is like the steriotypical woman thing. Funny how that one major point of her charecter is just ignored.
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Rick can't even keep his kid in line (does the little fucker ever do anything he's told?), how can he expect to lead a group of people?
I'm sure there's a "Carl as a metaphor for something" somewhere.
Did you do every little thing you were told as a kid? Kids live to disobey parents. Shit, if I am told to do something by anyone, I don't do it out of spite. Well, maybe if it was something I was planning on doing anyway. This is a whole different topic. Haha.
I sure would have had it involved me getting my face eaten by zombies. And no, kids don't live to disobey parents. Maybe you did, but it's not par for course by a longshot.
A horrendous rotting zombie isn't fire. Kids underestimate fire. Even at 12, you would have to be borderline retarded, psychotic, and fearless to underestimate a zombie that looked like the one Carl played with.
Just a few years ago a teenager was mauled to death by a tiger after taunting it while it was in its enclosure. Turns out tigers can jump higher than the zoo thought. My point is kids are dumb and do really stupid things.
It's not even just fire. You can look at statistics for tons of accidents and death and wonder why anyone would do those things. See: jackass and the kids who imitate it.
Carl teasing and wanting to shoot a zombie is pretty reasonable. Neither of his parents noticing he's gone or that something obviously happened isn't.
Right, I have a much bigger problem with Lori being oblivious to it.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I'm honestly a fan of what happened this last episode. I hate the shit that went down with Darabont, it sucks, but in all seriousness the show is going to take it's own direction from the comic books and I support that one hundred percent. If Dexter or True Blood were exactly like the books, I'd have tuned out after season 1 on each of them.
The episode made me both extremely sad and very excited for the future of the series at the same time, instead of just sitting on my couch going "oh, this is REALLY entertaining, but it sucks that I know every little thing that's going to happen for the next four seasons...."
My biggest concern about what happened this episode and how it relates to the final 2 of the season:
The death this episode was big and emblematic and emotional and clearly designed to be that unexpected right to the jaw while we were watching the rope a dopin' left of Shane's impending doom. I liked it. The problem is that it also let the air out of the balloon a little bit. If they do indeed finish this season with another major death, it may not have quite the impact it would have had they not burned some of their currency here.
I don't really think it'll be an issue, but it's the first thing I felt when I thought about how I'd finish out the season.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
My biggest concern about what happened this episode and how it relates to the final 2 of the season:
The death this episode was big and emblematic and emotional and clearly designed to be that unexpected right to the jaw while we were watching the rope a dopin' left of Shane's impending doom. I liked it. The problem is that it also let the air out of the balloon a little bit. If they do indeed finish this season with another major death, it may not have quite the impact it would have had they not burned some of their currency here.
I don't really think it'll be an issue, but it's the first thing I felt when I thought about how I'd finish out the season.
It could serve as a catalyst for Shane making his penultimate move (his ultimate move being shot in the face after zombified).
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Also (major comic spoilers)
I really like how they handled Carl in this episode personally. I mean he's all gung ho to kill someone, and he's going to find that gun and kill Shane, and then that real world moment where he says "it's not like I thought it would be, it's not the same" will actually have meaning. I thought the writing for Carl this episode was fantastic
I really like how they handled Carl in this episode personally. I mean he's all gung ho to kill someone, and he's going to find that gun and kill Shane, and then that real world moment where he says "it's not like I thought it would be, it's not the same" will actually have meaning. I thought the writing for Carl this episode was fantastic
Yeah I would say the characterization of Carl was one of the strongest points of the entire episode. He lost his only peer. He's angry. He's trying to find his place. He's making mistakes.
but it seems like all of the things he has done and been through will actually change the character. Unlike. . .you know who.
I'm honestly a fan of what happened this last episode. I hate the shit that went down with Darabont, it sucks, but in all seriousness the show is going to take it's own direction from the comic books and I support that one hundred percent. If Dexter or True Blood were exactly like the books, I'd have tuned out after season 1 on each of them.
The episode made me both extremely sad and very excited for the future of the series at the same time, instead of just sitting on my couch going "oh, this is REALLY entertaining, but it sucks that I know every little thing that's going to happen for the next four seasons...."
That's just me though.
I agree with this. I know what happens in the comic and I don't really need to see it be rehashed. Frankly, I think Kirkman is a bit overrated as a writer and the book has suffered a lot for it in certain places. I like the idea of the concept being taken in a different place for the TV series. So long as they stick to the central tenet that the show is about the people and not the zombies I'll be watching.
My biggest concern about what happened this episode and how it relates to the final 2 of the season:
The death this episode was big and emblematic and emotional and clearly designed to be that unexpected right to the jaw while we were watching the rope a dopin' left of Shane's impending doom. I liked it. The problem is that it also let the air out of the balloon a little bit. If they do indeed finish this season with another major death, it may not have quite the impact it would have had they not burned some of their currency here.
I don't really think it'll be an issue, but it's the first thing I felt when I thought about how I'd finish out the season.
It could serve as a catalyst for Shane making his penultimate move (his ultimate move being shot in the face after zombified).
I don't think Shane is going to get zombified. If he gets shot in the face, I'm thinking it'll happen after he murders someone else in cold blood - or tries. I wouldn't put it past him to try and kill Rick.
My biggest concern about what happened this episode and how it relates to the final 2 of the season:
The death this episode was big and emblematic and emotional and clearly designed to be that unexpected right to the jaw while we were watching the rope a dopin' left of Shane's impending doom. I liked it. The problem is that it also let the air out of the balloon a little bit. If they do indeed finish this season with another major death, it may not have quite the impact it would have had they not burned some of their currency here.
I don't really think it'll be an issue, but it's the first thing I felt when I thought about how I'd finish out the season.
It could serve as a catalyst for Shane making his penultimate move (his ultimate move being shot in the face after zombified).
I don't think Shane is going to get zombified. If he gets shot in the face, I'm thinking it'll happen after he murders someone else in cold blood - or tries. I wouldn't put it past him to try and kill Rick.
Two episodes ago so I don't have to spoil it right? Shane already tried to kill Rick, even a punch can kill but can be construed as working out a frustration - when you pick up a heavy metal object and throw it hard enough to blast through a window, the intent is ridiculously clear, Shane tried to kill Rick. On top of the reaching for his gun...
Rick should have left Shane in the bus, even waited to see if he survived so he would know if he had to off him so he wouldn't return to cause trouble, but he is ridiculously delusional about Shane at this point. Shane is no less a potential threat to the group than
Randall who they were about to execute.
So frickin delusional, he blasted the two guys in the bar for less indication of violent intent. But that is just where Rick's head is at, awesome but an idiot at the same time.
I hate Shane, but I don't think he had the intent to kill Rick when he threw the wrench. It was meant as intimidation and was ridiculously off target.
I would download a car.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
It wasn't that much off target and Shane was fucking raging when he threw that thing.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
You could go in circles arguing this point, but personally;
no one could throw something like that wrench accurately. Even if it's just meant to scare Rick, no way he could be sure it wouldn't hit him by accident. I don't think he was actually trying to kill him and missed though, he was just so frustrated he threw it in a blind rage. And he was going for the gun to kill Randall, not Rick.
That said. I agree that Shane's actually a pretty huge danger to the group, and Rick's in denial - thinking it's all down to Shane being in love with Lori and totally missing how unstable he's become. If Rick doesn't understand what's up with Shane, there's no way he can deal with it properly either.
My biggest concern about what happened this episode and how it relates to the final 2 of the season:
The death this episode was big and emblematic and emotional and clearly designed to be that unexpected right to the jaw while we were watching the rope a dopin' left of Shane's impending doom. I liked it. The problem is that it also let the air out of the balloon a little bit. If they do indeed finish this season with another major death, it may not have quite the impact it would have had they not burned some of their currency here.
I don't really think it'll be an issue, but it's the first thing I felt when I thought about how I'd finish out the season.
It could serve as a catalyst for Shane making his penultimate move (his ultimate move being shot in the face after zombified).
I don't think Shane is going to get zombified. If he gets shot in the face, I'm thinking it'll happen after he murders someone else in cold blood - or tries. I wouldn't put it past him to try and kill Rick.
Two episodes ago so I don't have to spoil it right? Shane already tried to kill Rick, even a punch can kill but can be construed as working out a frustration - when you pick up a heavy metal object and throw it hard enough to blast through a window, the intent is ridiculously clear, Shane tried to kill Rick. On top of the reaching for his gun...
Also, in season 1 - after Rick and Shane argue about whether to go to the CDC or Fort Benning, Rick hears a noise in the woods and goes to investigate. Shane draws his gun to cover Rick, and for a long second he lines up his sights on Rick himself.
Dale sees this and does his usual bug-eyed "My God, man!" thing. I think that's the point Dale first starts to turn against Shane, long before anything to do with Otis or taking the guns to the swamp.
Not since Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital has such a shitty show shat all over the shit on TV.
It wouldn't even be a particularly bad show if I hadn't already read all of Kirkman's awesome graphic novel collections of the comic book series. But after reading those? Yeah, this show is a fucking insult. Awful characters, writing, execution, and pacing. Kill them all off and give Kirkman creative control over a new season that covers a group of completely new characters we can care about as much as the cast from the comics.
I don't dislike them that much, it's just that I feel the comic book versions of them were better and more interesting. In making a show like this you should try to distinguish yourself from the comic, but only if you can make it BETTER. For example, the trip to the CDC improved the story over the comic and created real drama. This section doesn't feel like it increases the drama and quality of the show, it just feels like they don't have the budget to go to the next big location and are spinning their wheels. The developments and deaths just feel like anticlimaxes because they are occuring in such a minor area.
The farm isn't safe. It makes no sense that it is safe. It's not protected in any way beyond isolation, and it's not even that isolated. Thus it doesn't make sense for this 'human drama' section of the story. The next big location DOES make sense for this, it creates the illusion of security and allows the survivors to focus on each other and how they work together. Then you introduce the outside element to shake up the group after internal strife damages them. By not having them move on, realizing the farm is not safe, it makes the world seem less and less dangerous in general (wandering into town to go to the bar and get contraceptives??) and without that the stressed irrational behavior doesn't make sense.
They haven't had any major zombie attacks at the farm that we've seen until today, and there is a ton more land than they can possibly work. From the perspective of an outsider watching the show the zombie apocalypse seems to be pretty much over, they should be recruiting people and clearing land around their farm for more crops. So what if there's another big group, they need food and resources and you desperately need people to replace your mechanization. Since there is no threat any more, you should be trying to bring them in. Even at the next big location in the comic it was clear all the time that their safety was artificial. If you left that location the zombies would be all over you within hours.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I don't think they've explained the farm's magical force field well enough, but the impression I got was that there are fences all the way around, no way for the walkers to get in, and the only unfenced route is that swamp where they get stuck. When Otis was around, he would go 'clean the traps' so to speak, and any walker stuck there would be locked up before it could cause any trouble. The only thing that's changed is that Otis isn't around to do that anymore, so that walker spent a few days struggling through the swamp and finally managed it.
Why isn't Rick's group cleaning the swamp out?
Because they dumb.
Oh brilliant
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I don't think they've explained the farm's magical force field well enough, but the impression I got was that there are fences all the way around, no way for the walkers to get in, and the only unfenced route is that swamp where they get stuck. When Otis was around, he would go 'clean the traps' so to speak, and any walker stuck there would be locked up before it could cause any trouble. The only thing that's changed is that Otis isn't around to do that anymore, so that walker spent a few days struggling through the swamp and finally managed it.
In addition to all that the farm isn't visible from the road at all so the majority of the walkers probably just shamble past it.
I am not the only one who remembers that Hershel and the other people at the farm were trying to repair the fences after some of their cattle broke it, correct? That probably also contributed to the zombie from the mud getting the cow and Dale at night.
That said though, I don't think all the undead that were in the barn got there exclusively by Otis' swamp wrangling detail, I don't have much evidence to go on this by other than the well zombie, I don't think the fence is impassable by a zombie, just a whole lot less likely to be passed because they don't often have something they want on the other side of it in a immediate fashion. (recent episode)
Heck, the cattle probably busted the fence because of a zombie spooking them.
And we know the family members didn't come through the swamp either.
I think the farm is just slightly less of an illusion of security than the cans on a string the quarry had. And the trips into town and surrounding areas have become increasingly more populated with the undead with every noise, every interaction. And hordes of them wander the roads as we saw in this seasons' first episode and especially last season in the city.
Essentially, the farm is just a hiding spot. The illusion of the zombie apocalypse being over there is just as much one for the viewer as it is for the surviving characters. Between the road we left at the start with its horde, the church bell ringing, the valleys and water ways that funnel the undead, the town that has been getting more action, the suburb Shane and Andrea visited, the forests full of gun fire, the highschool trauma station, and the fenced in place with the buses Shane and Rick recently left the gate open on ... They are fucking surrounded by hordes. And another human survivor group is running scavenging runs and raids into that same territory.
Yeah, I really get the impression I am watching a different show than some, I am seeing a ton of undead right on the periphery of the survivors little eye of the storm. In the comic
it took a tank to wreck the fence of the prison, in this show all it took to bust the fence was some cattle.
Delusions, illusions, suicidal depression, paranoia, denial, and blind good and bad luck rain falling on the good and bad alike. This show is following the comic closer than most realize.
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
I recently watched Bite Me - The Gamer's Zombie Apocalypse and I realized something from this experience: Walking Dead has good writers most of the time.
I don't think they've explained the farm's magical force field well enough, but the impression I got was that there are fences all the way around, no way for the walkers to get in, and the only unfenced route is that swamp where they get stuck. When Otis was around, he would go 'clean the traps' so to speak, and any walker stuck there would be locked up before it could cause any trouble. The only thing that's changed is that Otis isn't around to do that anymore, so that walker spent a few days struggling through the swamp and finally managed it.
Why isn't Rick's group cleaning the swamp out?
Because they dumb.
I remember reading, either here or on TWOP, that the farm was bordered, at least on 1 side, by a cliff or chasm or something that prevented zombies from approaching from that side. Even something like the hill Daryl fell down, after he was thrown by his horse, might be steep enough to stop a zombie from climbing it.
I don't think Rick would be using only 1 lookout if the farm was approachable from all directions. He's shown that he understands the need to cover multiple approaches. That's why, at the bar, he sent Herschel and Glenn out the back while he stayed behind to cover the front.
I don't think they've explained the farm's magical force field well enough, but the impression I got was that there are fences all the way around, no way for the walkers to get in, and the only unfenced route is that swamp where they get stuck. When Otis was around, he would go 'clean the traps' so to speak, and any walker stuck there would be locked up before it could cause any trouble. The only thing that's changed is that Otis isn't around to do that anymore, so that walker spent a few days struggling through the swamp and finally managed it.
Why isn't Rick's group cleaning the swamp out?
Because they dumb.
I remember reading, either here or on TWOP, that the farm was bordered, at least on 1 side, by a cliff or chasm or something that prevented zombies from approaching from that side. Even something like the hill Daryl fell down, after he was thrown by his horse, might be steep enough to stop a zombie from climbing it.
I don't think Rick would be using only 1 lookout if the farm was approachable from all directions. He's shown that he understands the need to cover multiple approaches. That's why, at the bar, he sent Herschel and Glenn out the back while he stayed behind to cover the front.
Theory: The quality of Rick's decisions is inversely related to the amount of time he has to make the decision.
I don't think they've explained the farm's magical force field well enough, but the impression I got was that there are fences all the way around, no way for the walkers to get in, and the only unfenced route is that swamp where they get stuck. When Otis was around, he would go 'clean the traps' so to speak, and any walker stuck there would be locked up before it could cause any trouble. The only thing that's changed is that Otis isn't around to do that anymore, so that walker spent a few days struggling through the swamp and finally managed it.
Why isn't Rick's group cleaning the swamp out?
Because they dumb.
I remember reading, either here or on TWOP, that the farm was bordered, at least on 1 side, by a cliff or chasm or something that prevented zombies from approaching from that side. Even something like the hill Daryl fell down, after he was thrown by his horse, might be steep enough to stop a zombie from climbing it.
I don't think Rick would be using only 1 lookout if the farm was approachable from all directions. He's shown that he understands the need to cover multiple approaches. That's why, at the bar, he sent Herschel and Glenn out the back while he stayed behind to cover the front.
But we did see zombies using ladders earlier in the series. Geography might slow them down but they'll get there eventually (if they have compelling reason [i.e. brains] to do so). I think the 1 guard might have more to do with the logistics of trying to defend a large area with a small group of people 24/7.
Wait... I just realized why Lori will never die... Zombies eat brains, and she has none. She's safe!
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Pretty much all zombie apocalypse fiction presupposes the idea that modern civilization has made us weak and dependent. The initial stages of a zombie outbreak may present a unique challenge, but by the stage that we are in the show the situation is not particularly different from what our species has not only survived, but thrived during. Except zombies are probably less of a threat than lions, wolves, and roaming bandits. A simple palisade is enough to stop any number of them if built stable enough.
But the presumption is that these people are not able to adapt to that kind of life. Meanwhile, I imagine Afghanistan during the zombie apocalypse looks basically the same as now except cremation is a lot more popular.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
We saw 1 zombie climb a fence and one zombie climb a ladder.
The main consensus was that for every 100 zombies, there is one that is slightly "smarter" than the others.
Kind of like Morgan's wife coming back to their house and being able to turn a doorknob.
Makes me wonder if there are some extra stupid ones. Like for every clever walker there is one that is slowly braining itself to death by repeatedly walking face first into telephone poles and walls for no reason.
I hate Shane, but I don't think he had the intent to kill Rick when he threw the wrench. It was meant as intimidation and was ridiculously off target.
Speaking as someone with rage issues, I think Shane at that point probably did want to kill Rick. When in that kind of mental state of furious anger you'd rather kill the person than face the humiliation of letting him "win".
You could go in circles arguing this point, but personally;
no one could throw something like that wrench accurately. Even if it's just meant to scare Rick, no way he could be sure it wouldn't hit him by accident. I don't think he was actually trying to kill him and missed though, he was just so frustrated he threw it in a blind rage. And he was going for the gun to kill Randall, not Rick.
That said. I agree that Shane's actually a pretty huge danger to the group, and Rick's in denial - thinking it's all down to Shane being in love with Lori and totally missing how unstable he's become. If Rick doesn't understand what's up with Shane, there's no way he can deal with it properly either.
Totally agree with the Darth on this one. I distinctly remember Rick commenting on it too. Something like "You try to kill me, you better pull out a gun". Rick took it to da face as something Shane did in rage, and apparently chose to forgive.
Which makes him a bit of dumb guy, but then again he's known Shane for years, they are partners, he knows he can handle him like no one else. And there's the circumstances too.
About the Shane/Lori thing ... you're spot on.
I keep hoping the writers take a complete turn from the comics and after another fight like they look each other straight in the eye, like the strong guys they are, the sweat running down their faces, mixing with the blood from where they hit each other.
"Rick ... it's Lowrei.
"I knaow, Shaine. I knaow. She's ... a thang"
And then they kiss.
Also, in season 1 - after Rick and Shane argue about whether to go to the CDC or Fort Benning, Rick hears a noise in the woods and goes to investigate. Shane draws his gun to cover Rick, and for a long second he lines up his sights on Rick himself.
Dale sees this and does his usual bug-eyed "My God, man!" thing. I think that's the point Dale first starts to turn against Shane, long before anything to do with Otis or taking the guns to the swamp.
Yeah. In the comics, iirc, that's
when Shane breaks down, looks like he is really going to shoot Rick, and CARL shoots him in the back instead, killing him.
Not since Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital has such a shitty show shat all over the shit on TV.
It wouldn't even be a particularly bad show if I hadn't already read all of Kirkman's awesome graphic novel collections of the comic book series. But after reading those? Yeah, this show is a fucking insult. Awful characters, writing, execution, and pacing. Kill them all off and give Kirkman creative control over a new season that covers a group of completely new characters we can care about as much as the cast from the comics.
I don't dislike them that much, it's just that I feel the comic book versions of them were better and more interesting. In making a show like this you should try to distinguish yourself from the comic, but only if you can make it BETTER. For example, the trip to the CDC improved the story over the comic and created real drama. This section doesn't feel like it increases the drama and quality of the show, it just feels like they don't have the budget to go to the next big location and are spinning their wheels. The developments and deaths just feel like anticlimaxes because they are occuring in such a minor area.
The farm isn't safe. It makes no sense that it is safe. It's not protected in any way beyond isolation, and it's not even that isolated. Thus it doesn't make sense for this 'human drama' section of the story. The next big location DOES make sense for this, it creates the illusion of security and allows the survivors to focus on each other and how they work together. Then you introduce the outside element to shake up the group after internal strife damages them. By not having them move on, realizing the farm is not safe, it makes the world seem less and less dangerous in general (wandering into town to go to the bar and get contraceptives??) and without that the stressed irrational behavior doesn't make sense.
They haven't had any major zombie attacks at the farm that we've seen until today, and there is a ton more land than they can possibly work. From the perspective of an outsider watching the show the zombie apocalypse seems to be pretty much over, they should be recruiting people and clearing land around their farm for more crops. So what if there's another big group, they need food and resources and you desperately need people to replace your mechanization. Since there is no threat any more, you should be trying to bring them in. Even at the next big location in the comic it was clear all the time that their safety was artificial. If you left that location the zombies would be all over you within hours.
Sorry if I do multiple posts like this, I'm catching up.
I wanted to comment on this post, with which I mostly agree.
Adapting different media is quite tricky. I feel they did a good job, overall, and I DO try to cut them some slack. Working with actors and a writer team, for example, is way harder than simply drawing up a new character when needed*. The tv Shane is eons better that the comic one. Daryl, the Cuddly Redneck Ninja is absent in the comic, and rocks balls. The others ... meh. Mixed feelings. The CDC episode, absent in the comics ... sucked zombie balls. As I said earlier, there's a clash where different media are trying to tell the very same story. Specifically, it's the tv series format that's coming to grips with the zombie genre, the peculiarities of which are ill suited for an ongoing series. Character deaths, horrible things happening all around, uncertainty, never being safe, people turning on each other. Now, the comic handles those peculiarities quite well, by making them the strong suit of the Walking Dead series.
The TV show is pretty watered down, compared to the comic. It really shows the many writer troubles they had. It is much less daring, and that's why it's losing in the confrontation, and it's starting to get boring. It's trying to force the genre into the format, rather than the other way around. Losing appeal because of it.
*please note: I don't mean that writing the Walking Dead comic it's easy. I could never do that. It's just simpler.
When you want a new character, you don't need to cast an actor, book him/her, work with him/her, write the dialogue, adapt it to the actor's delivery, hope he/she never does too much drugs, screws the key grip etc etc etc.
And you CAN dismember him on screen, or rape her for 4 issues straight.
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I would like it if at some point the crew set up a proper community for themselves that they defend and let others join. Not on the farm, though, it's a bit boring. Preferably they'd clear out a small town or something that is near a bigger town so they can go gather food and supplies and have crazy adventures while the less worthy characters stay in the community and talk about things.
Coming in season 5, the walking dead "Secondary characters stuck in an elevator while the stars are on vacation episode! Shenanigans ensue!"
But apparently the women shouldn't be watching the children, which is like the steriotypical woman thing. Funny how that one major point of her charecter is just ignored.
I sure would have had it involved me getting my face eaten by zombies. And no, kids don't live to disobey parents. Maybe you did, but it's not par for course by a longshot.
Just a few years ago a teenager was mauled to death by a tiger after taunting it while it was in its enclosure. Turns out tigers can jump higher than the zoo thought. My point is kids are dumb and do really stupid things.
It's not even just fire. You can look at statistics for tons of accidents and death and wonder why anyone would do those things. See: jackass and the kids who imitate it.
The episode made me both extremely sad and very excited for the future of the series at the same time, instead of just sitting on my couch going "oh, this is REALLY entertaining, but it sucks that I know every little thing that's going to happen for the next four seasons...."
That's just me though.
I don't really think it'll be an issue, but it's the first thing I felt when I thought about how I'd finish out the season.
Yeah I would say the characterization of Carl was one of the strongest points of the entire episode. He lost his only peer. He's angry. He's trying to find his place. He's making mistakes.
but it seems like all of the things he has done and been through will actually change the character. Unlike. . .you know who.
I agree with this. I know what happens in the comic and I don't really need to see it be rehashed. Frankly, I think Kirkman is a bit overrated as a writer and the book has suffered a lot for it in certain places. I like the idea of the concept being taken in a different place for the TV series. So long as they stick to the central tenet that the show is about the people and not the zombies I'll be watching.
Not to take anything away from the ending of that episode, but if that would've been the season finale I would have been pretty disappointed.
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Two episodes ago so I don't have to spoil it right? Shane already tried to kill Rick, even a punch can kill but can be construed as working out a frustration - when you pick up a heavy metal object and throw it hard enough to blast through a window, the intent is ridiculously clear, Shane tried to kill Rick. On top of the reaching for his gun...
Rick should have left Shane in the bus, even waited to see if he survived so he would know if he had to off him so he wouldn't return to cause trouble, but he is ridiculously delusional about Shane at this point. Shane is no less a potential threat to the group than
Also, in season 1 - after Rick and Shane argue about whether to go to the CDC or Fort Benning, Rick hears a noise in the woods and goes to investigate. Shane draws his gun to cover Rick, and for a long second he lines up his sights on Rick himself.
Dale sees this and does his usual bug-eyed "My God, man!" thing. I think that's the point Dale first starts to turn against Shane, long before anything to do with Otis or taking the guns to the swamp.
I don't dislike them that much, it's just that I feel the comic book versions of them were better and more interesting. In making a show like this you should try to distinguish yourself from the comic, but only if you can make it BETTER. For example, the trip to the CDC improved the story over the comic and created real drama. This section doesn't feel like it increases the drama and quality of the show, it just feels like they don't have the budget to go to the next big location and are spinning their wheels. The developments and deaths just feel like anticlimaxes because they are occuring in such a minor area.
The farm isn't safe. It makes no sense that it is safe. It's not protected in any way beyond isolation, and it's not even that isolated. Thus it doesn't make sense for this 'human drama' section of the story. The next big location DOES make sense for this, it creates the illusion of security and allows the survivors to focus on each other and how they work together. Then you introduce the outside element to shake up the group after internal strife damages them. By not having them move on, realizing the farm is not safe, it makes the world seem less and less dangerous in general (wandering into town to go to the bar and get contraceptives??) and without that the stressed irrational behavior doesn't make sense.
They haven't had any major zombie attacks at the farm that we've seen until today, and there is a ton more land than they can possibly work. From the perspective of an outsider watching the show the zombie apocalypse seems to be pretty much over, they should be recruiting people and clearing land around their farm for more crops. So what if there's another big group, they need food and resources and you desperately need people to replace your mechanization. Since there is no threat any more, you should be trying to bring them in. Even at the next big location in the comic it was clear all the time that their safety was artificial. If you left that location the zombies would be all over you within hours.
Why isn't Rick's group cleaning the swamp out?
Because they dumb.
In addition to all that the farm isn't visible from the road at all so the majority of the walkers probably just shamble past it.
I think the farm is just slightly less of an illusion of security than the cans on a string the quarry had. And the trips into town and surrounding areas have become increasingly more populated with the undead with every noise, every interaction. And hordes of them wander the roads as we saw in this seasons' first episode and especially last season in the city.
Essentially, the farm is just a hiding spot. The illusion of the zombie apocalypse being over there is just as much one for the viewer as it is for the surviving characters. Between the road we left at the start with its horde, the church bell ringing, the valleys and water ways that funnel the undead, the town that has been getting more action, the suburb Shane and Andrea visited, the forests full of gun fire, the highschool trauma station, and the fenced in place with the buses Shane and Rick recently left the gate open on ... They are fucking surrounded by hordes. And another human survivor group is running scavenging runs and raids into that same territory.
Yeah, I really get the impression I am watching a different show than some, I am seeing a ton of undead right on the periphery of the survivors little eye of the storm. In the comic
Delusions, illusions, suicidal depression, paranoia, denial, and blind good and bad luck rain falling on the good and bad alike. This show is following the comic closer than most realize.
Yes! Phineas and Ferb reference the Walking Dead thread! Thank you and good nite.
I remember reading, either here or on TWOP, that the farm was bordered, at least on 1 side, by a cliff or chasm or something that prevented zombies from approaching from that side. Even something like the hill Daryl fell down, after he was thrown by his horse, might be steep enough to stop a zombie from climbing it.
I don't think Rick would be using only 1 lookout if the farm was approachable from all directions. He's shown that he understands the need to cover multiple approaches. That's why, at the bar, he sent Herschel and Glenn out the back while he stayed behind to cover the front.
Theory: The quality of Rick's decisions is inversely related to the amount of time he has to make the decision.
But we did see zombies using ladders earlier in the series. Geography might slow them down but they'll get there eventually (if they have compelling reason [i.e. brains] to do so). I think the 1 guard might have more to do with the logistics of trying to defend a large area with a small group of people 24/7.
Wait... I just realized why Lori will never die... Zombies eat brains, and she has none. She's safe!
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The main consensus was that for every 100 zombies, there is one that is slightly "smarter" than the others.
Kind of like Morgan's wife coming back to their house and being able to turn a doorknob.
But the presumption is that these people are not able to adapt to that kind of life. Meanwhile, I imagine Afghanistan during the zombie apocalypse looks basically the same as now except cremation is a lot more popular.
Makes me wonder if there are some extra stupid ones. Like for every clever walker there is one that is slowly braining itself to death by repeatedly walking face first into telephone poles and walls for no reason.
Speaking as someone with rage issues, I think Shane at that point probably did want to kill Rick. When in that kind of mental state of furious anger you'd rather kill the person than face the humiliation of letting him "win".
Which makes him a bit of dumb guy, but then again he's known Shane for years, they are partners, he knows he can handle him like no one else. And there's the circumstances too.
About the Shane/Lori thing ... you're spot on.
I keep hoping the writers take a complete turn from the comics and after another fight like they look each other straight in the eye, like the strong guys they are, the sweat running down their faces, mixing with the blood from where they hit each other.
"Rick ... it's Lowrei.
"I knaow, Shaine. I knaow. She's ... a thang"
And then they kiss.
Yeah. In the comics, iirc, that's
boom. show becomes 100 percent better
I wanted to comment on this post, with which I mostly agree.
Adapting different media is quite tricky. I feel they did a good job, overall, and I DO try to cut them some slack. Working with actors and a writer team, for example, is way harder than simply drawing up a new character when needed*. The tv Shane is eons better that the comic one. Daryl, the Cuddly Redneck Ninja is absent in the comic, and rocks balls. The others ... meh. Mixed feelings. The CDC episode, absent in the comics ... sucked zombie balls. As I said earlier, there's a clash where different media are trying to tell the very same story. Specifically, it's the tv series format that's coming to grips with the zombie genre, the peculiarities of which are ill suited for an ongoing series. Character deaths, horrible things happening all around, uncertainty, never being safe, people turning on each other. Now, the comic handles those peculiarities quite well, by making them the strong suit of the Walking Dead series.
The TV show is pretty watered down, compared to the comic. It really shows the many writer troubles they had. It is much less daring, and that's why it's losing in the confrontation, and it's starting to get boring. It's trying to force the genre into the format, rather than the other way around. Losing appeal because of it.
*please note: I don't mean that writing the Walking Dead comic it's easy. I could never do that.
When you want a new character, you don't need to cast an actor, book him/her, work with him/her, write the dialogue, adapt it to the actor's delivery, hope he/she never does too much drugs, screws the key grip etc etc etc.
And you CAN dismember him on screen, or rape her for 4 issues straight.