What happened when they added DKs? I barely raided in TBC (just a few annoying Karazhan PUGs was enough pain for me) so I don't really know what the token setup was pre-DK. I didn't pay attention to them as I was just in it for the badges. Was Vanq just druid/mage/rogue back then?
Well, they had already redone the tokens for T6 in the prot/conq/vanq system, so they just added DKs onto the vanq token and upped the drop rate. So yes, Vanq was just druid/mage/rogue.
Having a single token, usable by all classes, just seems better all around.
Have a tank quit on you? One of your Dmg classes needs time off to spend three weeks in jail for a bar fight? Your healer quits because her husband was having an affair with the girl playing mage? One run through the last tier of farm content and a new person in the raid is geared enough to push new content. It works with high progression guild needs to gear certain classes first. It works with DKP and actually makes DKP "more fair".
Of course it will limit time that raiders spend in a set of content when it's on farm status. Guessing 1 to 2 drops of a token per week (per slot/per boss), that's 3 to 4 weeks for a 10 person raid to get everyone in a tier set and only peripheral gear to worry about. But that's when trinkets/weapons/etc. come into the picture to keep people raiding.
Old man, family, works too hard, locked into a routine, but still plays with army men and video games.
If you want to play League of Legends, here is my refer a friend: So I get points
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
Is swapping to Frost or Unholy Presence for those bits not a viable tactic?
Is there a good resource for non-set sets and where they drop/quest? Like the purple Judgement set from the TBC dungeons/heroics?
You can find the tier set on wowhead and use the "same model as" tab to find stuff that uses the same model.
That only for the actual tier pieces, though (head/shoulders/chest/legs/gloves), so if you want a matching belt or boots or whatever you'll have to browse manually.
The matching pieces mostly drop in the same tier though, so they usually aren't too hard to find.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
Is swapping to Frost or Unholy Presence for those bits not a viable tactic?
Can't use rune strike, which is a major chunk of my DPS (for the period of time it's still up while OT, which is most of the time actually, somehow). Also, lose my RP when I switch, waste two GCD, and start taking more than usual damage, putting higher stress on healers, and blah blah blah.
Basically, I just don't want DK threat to be so fucking high that I have to go afk while OT. When it's buffed again I will barely be able to keep diseases up, let alone my blade barrier and mastery shield.
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
They've already done the 300-500% change. And you should only rip threat back from the other Tank on the first Taunt off, because your Vengeance is stacked to Max and his hasn't even started yet. Once you are working above 6 million threat, then pulling off the other Tank should be impossible, and if you are then your other tank is terrible. Tell him to push more buttons, any buttons, when he is tanking if you are pulling off him after a minute into the fight.
Can't use rune strike, which is a major chunk of my DPS (for the period of time it's still up while OT, which is most of the time actually, somehow). Also, lose my RP when I switch, waste two GCD, and start taking more than usual damage, putting higher stress on healers, and blah blah blah.
Basically, I just don't want DK threat to be so fucking high that I have to go afk while OT. When it's buffed again I will barely be able to keep diseases up, let alone my blade barrier and mastery shield.
Yeah, I figured it'd be kind of a self-defeating solution, just throwing it out there.
(I bloodtank on occasion, but not at the raid level.)
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
They've already done the 300-500% change. And you should only rip threat back from the other Tank on the first Taunt off, because your Vengeance is stacked to Max and his hasn't even started yet. Once you are working above 6 million threat, then pulling off the other Tank should be impossible, and if you are then your other tank is terrible. Tell him to push more buttons, any buttons, when he is tanking if you are pulling off him after a minute into the fight.
Except he's not terrible, DK threat is actually just that high.
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
They've already done the 300-500% change. And you should only rip threat back from the other Tank on the first Taunt off, because your Vengeance is stacked to Max and his hasn't even started yet. Once you are working above 6 million threat, then pulling off the other Tank should be impossible, and if you are then your other tank is terrible. Tell him to push more buttons, any buttons, when he is tanking if you are pulling off him after a minute into the fight.
Except he's not terrible, DK threat is actually just that high.
It's no higher than any of the other classes. I'm reluctant to say it's even on Par with the other three considering the state DKs were in at the beginning of Firelands and how a lot of DKs found Alysrazor to be very difficult because their DPS output was/is lower than the other three tanks.
Have a talk with your Co-tank, if you are pulling off him after the second switch then it's a problem with his rotation. It should be impossible outside of cooldown usage to pull off the other Tank when both are using proper rotations, have Vengeance stacked, and have built up a high enough threat between the two of them.
What happened when they added DKs? I barely raided in TBC (just a few annoying Karazhan PUGs was enough pain for me) so I don't really know what the token setup was pre-DK. I didn't pay attention to them as I was just in it for the badges. Was Vanq just druid/mage/rogue back then?
Well, they had already redone the tokens for T6 in the prot/conq/vanq system, so they just added DKs onto the vanq token and upped the drop rate. So yes, Vanq was just druid/mage/rogue.
I don't see why they wouldn't just slightly up the drop rate on whichever token they put Monks on then, if they just do it that way.
Actually, our last 10 man had 80% of the raid on Vanq token. The paladin and shaman had any conq/prot drops to themselves. It's coincidentally ridiculous.
Edit: That's just another reason I loved ToC. Class-agnostic tokens, so they never went to waste.
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
They've already done the 300-500% change. And you should only rip threat back from the other Tank on the first Taunt off, because your Vengeance is stacked to Max and his hasn't even started yet. Once you are working above 6 million threat, then pulling off the other Tank should be impossible, and if you are then your other tank is terrible. Tell him to push more buttons, any buttons, when he is tanking if you are pulling off him after a minute into the fight.
Except he's not terrible, DK threat is actually just that high.
It's no higher than any of the other classes. I'm reluctant to say it's even on Par with the other three considering the state DKs were in at the beginning of Firelands and how a lot of DKs found Alysrazor to be very difficult because their DPS output was/is lower than the other three tanks.
Have a talk with your Co-tank, if you are pulling off him after the second switch then it's a problem with his rotation. It should be impossible outside of cooldown usage to pull off the other Tank when both are using proper rotations, have Vengeance stacked, and have built up a high enough threat between the two of them.
How much of the Vengeance stack is left on the other tank in the 25-30 seconds between swaps? It's not uncommon to overaggro after a swap even past the first minute on Rag, I find. Now by the time phase 2 rolls around, it's not really an issue.
There are a lot of variables. We don't know what sort of gear Topia and the other tank are rocking, how their expertise/hit compare, etc.
That's me, so you can see I have as little hit/expertise as possible. I can't imagine my other tank having a less than optimal rotation, and his gear is potentially better than mine.
So do you guys play DK tanks or are you just speculating? I'm looking to see if this is an isolated incident or if it happens to multiple people. Maybe I'm just that good. (I'm not)
I play a DK and I'm definitely careful about attacking after the other tank taunts off me during phase 1 Rag (the only standard 0-threat start tank swap fight we deal with). Generally I'll just stop using Rune Strike while the other tank is going until I fall below 100% threat. I'm also careful not to unload a vengeance-loaded, 100+RP Death Strike soon after his taunt. Basically I'll use the time to reapply diseases with piddly IT/PS damage, dump Heart Strikes to keep up blade barrier, and then DS as long as I'm not creeping too close on threat.
I'm pretty sure he has to cool down his rotation as well after I taunt. When he doesn't -- or when I get really unlucky with whiff streaks (which seems to happen far too often on Rag) -- I find myself having to taunt Rag back again.
Once phase 2 rolls around I don't really pay attention to threat and it usually isn't a problem (although I think there have still been occasional accidental re-aggros).
Edit: Basically this is just the nature of Cataclysm tank swaps, thanks to Vengeance. 4.3 should be resolving it to some extent with the better initial ramp-up.
Oh I never use RS anymore when OT. Literally keeping BB and Diseases up has me pull aggro again. I've asked him and he has no problem full DPS even after I taunt.
I dunno, maybe something is up. I guess I'll look into it more.
Maybe just some unlucky whiff streaks on his part. Rag seems more prone to those than any other boss I've tanked. One of my pulls just last week had my starting 5-6 death strikes whiff. It's fucking infuriating "failing" through no fault of your own.
The whole "+3 mobs have an extra 8% or so parry chance" thing seems like yet another one of those pointless vanilla relics that Blizzard should just remove at this point.
Oh I never use RS anymore when OT. Literally keeping BB and Diseases up has me pull aggro again. I've asked him and he has no problem full DPS even after I taunt.
I dunno, maybe something is up. I guess I'll look into it more.
Got a Link to WoL? What kind of DPS #s is he getting? If you seriously always have to stop everything every time he Taunts then he has a major issue.
Edit: I'll ask my friend if he ever has to stop attacking on Ragnaros, but I doubt he ever does. We both do 13k DPS on that fight, and I know from my side the only time I ever stop attack Ragnaros is when he Taunts off me the first time.
Edit2: I am using SimulationCraft to get an idea of what some prospective recruits would be pulling in Raids. After this discussion I decided to see what it would say my Prot Warrior would pull. It came out with 5899 DPS in my AE Tank Spec(The one I use on Ragnaros). I don't think SimulationCraft knows how to play a Prot Warrior, hahaha. It must not take into consideration my rage generation from getting hit.
Have him tank first. By the second taunt, you should be able to occasionally do something.
Go apeshit when you're tanking. Increasing total threat means taunt will bump his threat even higher.
Tell him not to worry about debuffing (since your diseases debuff).
Be less threatening? Maybe try wearing a frilly dress while tanking, that should be suitably pacifying.
Look at me. Look at me. Look at how large the monster inside me has become. Crunch Crunch! Munch Munch! Chomp Chomp! Gulp!
Oh I never use RS anymore when OT. Literally keeping BB and Diseases up has me pull aggro again. I've asked him and he has no problem full DPS even after I taunt.
I dunno, maybe something is up. I guess I'll look into it more.
Got a Link to WoL? What kind of DPS #s is he getting? If you seriously always have to stop everything every time he Taunts then he has a major issue.
Edit: I'll ask my friend if he ever has to stop attacking on Ragnaros, but I doubt he ever does. We both do 13k DPS on that fight, and I know from my side the only time I ever stop attack Ragnaros is when he Taunts off me the first time.
Edit2: I am using SimulationCraft to get an idea of what some prospective recruits would be pulling in Raids. After this discussion I decided to see what it would say my Prot Warrior would pull. It came out with 5899 DPS in my AE Tank Spec(The one I use on Ragnaros). I don't think SimulationCraft knows how to play a Prot Warrior, hahaha. It must not take into consideration my rage generation from getting hit.
What does it give for the other tank specs? If I had to guess, I'd suspect it isn't accounting for Vengeance (in addition to rage from incoming damage).
Anyone else play a blood DK? On every fight where we taunt switch (almost all) I have to almost completely stop DPS to avoid getting agro again. It's very frustrating, and they're planning on buffing DK threat from 300-500%. I am not happy.
Holy shit, I thought I was the only one this was an issue for. I play a Blood DK, every time there's a tank switch I literally have to stop pushing buttons and do nothing but auto attack until it's my turn to taunt back again. One Death Strike crit will immediately pull threat off the other tank. Obviously Rune Strike as well, but it's more of an issue when I have a dot on me or something and I need to be using Death Strike.
Conversely, when the other tank is also a Blood DK, everything is fine. I have to wait just a bit for them to get vengeance up, but after that it's smooth sailing.
I guess we have insane single target threat to make up for our pisspoor aoe threat.
Also, I have 0% hit, 13 Expertise, and I'm still using a 359 weapon. Hm.
It would also help for the tank that is swapping with you to save any heavy damage attacks until after he taunts. I just know that when I'm in pug raids I have to prevent myself from using a (Paladin) Shield Slam until after that period and I have the mob facing me, any threat generation prior to the taunt is a waste.
Also another tankswap story, in T11 I would be the Double Attack tank on Chimaeron. I figured I would just shotgun Death Strikes to build up a ridiculous Blood Shield for when I needed to eat the Double Attack. ...It became troublesome when the other tank couldn't hold threat over me. Or, right after eating the DA, main tank would taunt, I'd death strike to heal up, pull threat.
Also another tankswap story, in T11 I would be the Double Attack tank on Chimaeron. I figured I would just shotgun Death Strikes to build up a ridiculous Blood Shield for when I needed to eat the Double Attack. ...It became troublesome when the other tank couldn't hold threat over me. Or, right after eating the DA, main tank would taunt, I'd death strike to heal up, pull threat.
Until late in T11, DS healing (and maybe shielding?) caused threat, so the huge DS heals you would get after a double attack caused ridiculous threat issues.
Is there a good resource for non-set sets and where they drop/quest? Like the purple Judgement set from the TBC dungeons/heroics?
You can find the tier set on wowhead and use the "same model as" tab to find stuff that uses the same model.
That only for the actual tier pieces, though (head/shoulders/chest/legs/gloves), so if you want a matching belt or boots or whatever you'll have to browse manually.
The matching pieces mostly drop in the same tier though, so they usually aren't too hard to find.
(he hits way too hard for any blood shield you could conceivably build to save you anyway)
Blood Shield can stack to a maximum of your max health. i.e., 160k health = Blood Shield can stack to 160k. It won't "save" you but it will definitely soften the blow. Being the DA tank, you aren't taking any damage except when you're taunting for DA... thus giving you ample time to stack it high enough.
At the very least I liked seeing Blood Shield stack so high.
On this subject but somewhat unrelated, have any Blood DKs noticed Recount not properly recording Blood Shield absorbs? Like uh, Baleroc is a good example. I know for a fact that I'm getting Blood Shields up, I know that he tears through them. Recount ends up recording anywhere between 0-4 total absorbs. I can go look up any random Blood DK on Baleroc on Worldoflogs and see Blood Shields being recorded accurately. I dunno, maybe I should just start setting up a WoL thing.
Is there a good resource for non-set sets and where they drop/quest? Like the purple Judgement set from the TBC dungeons/heroics?
You can find the tier set on wowhead and use the "same model as" tab to find stuff that uses the same model.
That only for the actual tier pieces, though (head/shoulders/chest/legs/gloves), so if you want a matching belt or boots or whatever you'll have to browse manually.
The matching pieces mostly drop in the same tier though, so they usually aren't too hard to find.
Yeah, thanks. That's what I've been doing. Got my Shaman planned out and I'm almost done getting the actual pieces for my Hunter. Paladin is still too low to (71) to solo the heroics, but soon. The only one I'm at a lost on is my DK, because I hate their recolor and I tossed out his original armor in frustration a while back.
I has a DK tank. Usually have the opposite problem. If your OT is indeed NOT a bad player, he should have no trouble out threating you. Does he have the 2 pc tank bonus? It's pretty godly for threat. There should be know way that he can't keep it on himself. Is the OT taunt or just using a fixate or something? IDKK
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It's now 5-9 per node.
Well, they had already redone the tokens for T6 in the prot/conq/vanq system, so they just added DKs onto the vanq token and upped the drop rate. So yes, Vanq was just druid/mage/rogue.
Steam: pazython
Have a tank quit on you? One of your Dmg classes needs time off to spend three weeks in jail for a bar fight? Your healer quits because her husband was having an affair with the girl playing mage? One run through the last tier of farm content and a new person in the raid is geared enough to push new content. It works with high progression guild needs to gear certain classes first. It works with DKP and actually makes DKP "more fair".
Of course it will limit time that raiders spend in a set of content when it's on farm status. Guessing 1 to 2 drops of a token per week (per slot/per boss), that's 3 to 4 weeks for a 10 person raid to get everyone in a tier set and only peripheral gear to worry about. But that's when trinkets/weapons/etc. come into the picture to keep people raiding.
If you want to play League of Legends, here is my refer a friend: So I get points
I suppose they could modify relative drop rates again.
Another approach would be to tie tokens to raid roles (i.e. dps token buys dps hats, etc.)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Especially on rag, whose primary threat seems to tend to stick to one tank for reasons I can't figure out.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Is swapping to Frost or Unholy Presence for those bits not a viable tactic?
You can find the tier set on wowhead and use the "same model as" tab to find stuff that uses the same model.
That only for the actual tier pieces, though (head/shoulders/chest/legs/gloves), so if you want a matching belt or boots or whatever you'll have to browse manually.
The matching pieces mostly drop in the same tier though, so they usually aren't too hard to find.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Can't use rune strike, which is a major chunk of my DPS (for the period of time it's still up while OT, which is most of the time actually, somehow). Also, lose my RP when I switch, waste two GCD, and start taking more than usual damage, putting higher stress on healers, and blah blah blah.
Basically, I just don't want DK threat to be so fucking high that I have to go afk while OT. When it's buffed again I will barely be able to keep diseases up, let alone my blade barrier and mastery shield.
They've already done the 300-500% change. And you should only rip threat back from the other Tank on the first Taunt off, because your Vengeance is stacked to Max and his hasn't even started yet. Once you are working above 6 million threat, then pulling off the other Tank should be impossible, and if you are then your other tank is terrible. Tell him to push more buttons, any buttons, when he is tanking if you are pulling off him after a minute into the fight.
Yeah, I figured it'd be kind of a self-defeating solution, just throwing it out there.
(I bloodtank on occasion, but not at the raid level.)
Except he's not terrible, DK threat is actually just that high.
What does this increase mean for Dwarfs? Don't we get extra? I usually get 4-6 right now. On my Tauren I get like 3.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
It's no higher than any of the other classes. I'm reluctant to say it's even on Par with the other three considering the state DKs were in at the beginning of Firelands and how a lot of DKs found Alysrazor to be very difficult because their DPS output was/is lower than the other three tanks.
Have a talk with your Co-tank, if you are pulling off him after the second switch then it's a problem with his rotation. It should be impossible outside of cooldown usage to pull off the other Tank when both are using proper rotations, have Vengeance stacked, and have built up a high enough threat between the two of them.
Actually, our last 10 man had 80% of the raid on Vanq token. The paladin and shaman had any conq/prot drops to themselves. It's coincidentally ridiculous.
Edit: That's just another reason I loved ToC. Class-agnostic tokens, so they never went to waste.
There are a lot of variables. We don't know what sort of gear Topia and the other tank are rocking, how their expertise/hit compare, etc.
That's me, so you can see I have as little hit/expertise as possible. I can't imagine my other tank having a less than optimal rotation, and his gear is potentially better than mine.
So do you guys play DK tanks or are you just speculating? I'm looking to see if this is an isolated incident or if it happens to multiple people. Maybe I'm just that good. (I'm not)
I'm pretty sure he has to cool down his rotation as well after I taunt. When he doesn't -- or when I get really unlucky with whiff streaks (which seems to happen far too often on Rag) -- I find myself having to taunt Rag back again.
Once phase 2 rolls around I don't really pay attention to threat and it usually isn't a problem (although I think there have still been occasional accidental re-aggros).
Edit: Basically this is just the nature of Cataclysm tank swaps, thanks to Vengeance. 4.3 should be resolving it to some extent with the better initial ramp-up.
I dunno, maybe something is up. I guess I'll look into it more.
The whole "+3 mobs have an extra 8% or so parry chance" thing seems like yet another one of those pointless vanilla relics that Blizzard should just remove at this point.
Got a Link to WoL? What kind of DPS #s is he getting? If you seriously always have to stop everything every time he Taunts then he has a major issue.
Edit: I'll ask my friend if he ever has to stop attacking on Ragnaros, but I doubt he ever does. We both do 13k DPS on that fight, and I know from my side the only time I ever stop attack Ragnaros is when he Taunts off me the first time.
Edit2: I am using SimulationCraft to get an idea of what some prospective recruits would be pulling in Raids. After this discussion I decided to see what it would say my Prot Warrior would pull. It came out with 5899 DPS in my AE Tank Spec(The one I use on Ragnaros). I don't think SimulationCraft knows how to play a Prot Warrior, hahaha. It must not take into consideration my rage generation from getting hit.
Have him tank first. By the second taunt, you should be able to occasionally do something.
Go apeshit when you're tanking. Increasing total threat means taunt will bump his threat even higher.
Tell him not to worry about debuffing (since your diseases debuff).
Be less threatening? Maybe try wearing a frilly dress while tanking, that should be suitably pacifying.
Crunch Crunch! Munch Munch! Chomp Chomp! Gulp!
Holy shit, I thought I was the only one this was an issue for. I play a Blood DK, every time there's a tank switch I literally have to stop pushing buttons and do nothing but auto attack until it's my turn to taunt back again. One Death Strike crit will immediately pull threat off the other tank. Obviously Rune Strike as well, but it's more of an issue when I have a dot on me or something and I need to be using Death Strike.
Conversely, when the other tank is also a Blood DK, everything is fine. I have to wait just a bit for them to get vengeance up, but after that it's smooth sailing.
I guess we have insane single target threat to make up for our pisspoor aoe threat.
Also, I have 0% hit, 13 Expertise, and I'm still using a 359 weapon. Hm.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
plus sometimes someone with too much time on their hands has already put a list together in the comments, like this: http://www.wowhead.com/item=27790#comments
I need to get a bot for that achievement.
Steam: pazython
Blood Shield can stack to a maximum of your max health. i.e., 160k health = Blood Shield can stack to 160k. It won't "save" you but it will definitely soften the blow. Being the DA tank, you aren't taking any damage except when you're taunting for DA... thus giving you ample time to stack it high enough.
At the very least I liked seeing Blood Shield stack so high.
On this subject but somewhat unrelated, have any Blood DKs noticed Recount not properly recording Blood Shield absorbs? Like uh, Baleroc is a good example. I know for a fact that I'm getting Blood Shields up, I know that he tears through them. Recount ends up recording anywhere between 0-4 total absorbs. I can go look up any random Blood DK on Baleroc on Worldoflogs and see Blood Shields being recorded accurately. I dunno, maybe I should just start setting up a WoL thing.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Yeah, thanks. That's what I've been doing. Got my Shaman planned out and I'm almost done getting the actual pieces for my Hunter. Paladin is still too low to (71) to solo the heroics, but soon. The only one I'm at a lost on is my DK, because I hate their recolor and I tossed out his original armor in frustration a while back.