I always get the two confused. Why can't it just have one written language? Korea makes it so easy.
Some Japanese people like to brag that their language uses 5 writing systems:
hiragana
katakana
kanji
romaji (Western alphabet)
Arabic numbers
While they do technically use the Western alphabet, most Japanese speakers "use" it about as well as a dog uses a flush toilet.
What they're referring to when they say that isn't writing purely in the Western alphabet, but using words like CD and DVD instead of シーディー and ディーヴィーディー
Why not just use a Deputy Service to ship it to the US? I go through Tenso when I want to pick up stuff that is either R-18 or sold by Xenophobic types, works great. Shipping to the US is about $30 though, so... I tend to wait till I have a good amount.
I love you, Mr. North. Next time I have a craving for something that I can't order from Western online shops, I'll try Tenso.
Aww, too bad I didn't see this this thread sooner.
I took a Japanese class last semester and I'm gonna continue with it this upcoming semester.
I've got Hiragana and Katakana (mostly) down, the focus will be more on Kanji from now on. But still..reading anything is pretty darn intimidating to me still, even stuff in the textbook we use..playing a game is pretty much still out of the question for me.
Aww, too bad I didn't see this this thread sooner.
I took a Japanese class last semester and I'm gonna continue with it this upcoming semester.
I've got Hiragana and Katakana (mostly) down, the focus will be more on Kanji from now on. But still..reading anything is pretty darn intimidating to me still, even stuff in the textbook we use..playing a game is pretty much still out of the question for me.
Actually, Pokémon is probably gonna help you a lot. Most moves are conjugated in dictionary form and you can look up their meanings on Bulbapedia. Believe me, it helps A LOT. The only problem is that they probably don't explain certain puns like the one in Draco Meteor (in Japanese, it's called Ryuuseigun, which means "meteoric swarm" but the fact that it has "ryuu" in its name makes it a dragon-type move).
Why not just use a Deputy Service to ship it to the US? I go through Tenso when I want to pick up stuff that is either R-18 or sold by Xenophobic types, works great. Shipping to the US is about $30 though, so... I tend to wait till I have a good amount.
You're right that Tenso's probably the best way to go in general. But they also ship by EMS, which is the most expensive way. I'd be willing to wait a couple weeks to have a company ship by SAL for half the cost. (But in my case I have friends in Japan who I could have ship things to me if there's something I really feel I have to have).
But getting back on-topic, I just learned that the some of the 大航海の時代 series of games were released in English under the name "Uncharted Waters". Anyone played them? Are they any good?
I know this might be off-topic for those of you more advanced in Japanese, but where did you actually begin learning? Classes, self-study, elsewhere? I would love to play JRPGs in Japanese but I don't even know where to begin to get a basic understanding! I'm thinking classes would be the best bet. I'd love to be able to read manga/watch anime in the original language without translations or subtitles.
Smoogy-1689
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
Personally, I recommend taking classes. I have trouble motivating myself to do daunting tasks unless there is some sort of arbitrary incentive, and grades are excellent incentive for me. I would also recommend classes for starting out, because its nicer to have other people to talk to and interact with, and there will be a teacher there who is able to correct you if you are wrong, answer questions, etc.
Keep in mind, though, for your goal, that Japanese is said to require the most hours of any language for an English speaker to achieve competency in. Not trying to crush dreams, but trying to give them some perspective.
Personally, I recommend taking classes. I have trouble motivating myself to do daunting tasks unless there is some sort of arbitrary incentive, and grades are excellent incentive for me. I would also recommend classes for starting out, because its nicer to have other people to talk to and interact with, and there will be a teacher there who is able to correct you if you are wrong, answer questions, etc.
Keep in mind, though, for your goal, that Japanese is said to require the most hours of any language for an English speaker to achieve competency in. Not trying to crush dreams, but trying to give them some perspective.
Haha, yeah I've heard the same thing. I'm not sure how well I'd do, but at least I could try Thank you for the tips!
Smoogy-1689
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
Personally, I recommend taking classes. I have trouble motivating myself to do daunting tasks unless there is some sort of arbitrary incentive, and grades are excellent incentive for me. I would also recommend classes for starting out, because its nicer to have other people to talk to and interact with, and there will be a teacher there who is able to correct you if you are wrong, answer questions, etc.
Keep in mind, though, for your goal, that Japanese is said to require the most hours of any language for an English speaker to achieve competency in. Not trying to crush dreams, but trying to give them some perspective.
Yeah, classes are the way to go for exactly these reasons. It keeps you on your toes and you're actually speaking the language.
Bonus points if the other people in your class and your sensei are fun - luckily for me they were in my case.
But yeah, don't expect to play games or read manga anytime soon. There are way, way, way too many Kanji :P
Actually, something I did find helpful was to pick up one or two easier Japanese manga (in my case I picked up Pokemon Special and Yotsubato). I don't make serious efforts to read them, but perhaps every other week I pick it up off the shelf and see how far I can get, how much I can understand, etc., as a way to get a feel for how much I have progressed. In the beginning I was using them more for hiragana practice than I was for actually understanding things, but last week I read through an entire chapter of Yotsuba with minimal confusion.
Note: Yotsuba is probably better in this regard because it deals with everyday things, whereas Pokemon has some rather specific vocabulary that you probably won't be learning in entry-level classes (if you have a dictionary handy its fine, but its a lot of work to be constantly looking up words, I prefer to just read as much as I can).
I know this might be off-topic for those of you more advanced in Japanese, but where did you actually begin learning? Classes, self-study, elsewhere? I would love to play JRPGs in Japanese but I don't even know where to begin to get a basic understanding! I'm thinking classes would be the best bet. I'd love to be able to read manga/watch anime in the original language without translations or subtitles.
Personally, I recommend taking classes. I have trouble motivating myself to do daunting tasks unless there is some sort of arbitrary incentive, and grades are excellent incentive for me. I would also recommend classes for starting out, because its nicer to have other people to talk to and interact with, and there will be a teacher there who is able to correct you if you are wrong, answer questions, etc.
Keep in mind, though, for your goal, that Japanese is said to require the most hours of any language for an English speaker to achieve competency in. Not trying to crush dreams, but trying to give them some perspective.
This is not off-topic. I began learning hiragana and katakana, but I found myself stuck out of fear to learn kanji (I didn't know which kanji belonged to what levels and stuff) and the only thing I ever did besides reading the most basic of basic Japanese lessons was checking a dictionary (JLookUp) when I felt curious about words and needed to learn some (I got a Japanese copy of LeafGreen and knowing your attacks is important for a competitive player). But I didn't know how to conjugate correctly until a group of young people (around my age, actually) started teaching Japanese for free last year. I learn a LOT and I can actually conjugate and understand basic Japanese conversations.
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
I'm nearing the end of my first semester of Japanese, I think its really helpful to have a class
maybe after you learn the basics though you could study by yourself? I dunno. I'm gonna try playing ni no kuni over summer with google nearby to help translate stuff. watching a video, I could understand a lot of what there was in menus etc, and some conversation (though it was blurry)
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
EDICT is okay. It includes a lot of archaic words that can't usually be found elsewhere. I find it can be overwhelming in its completeness at times, though.
I generally prefer to use 英辞郎, though it can be hard for beginners since (like those found in electronic dictionaries) it was made for Japanese speakers.
Very true. EDICT isn't very good for going English -> Japanese as it's too thorough. Excellent for Japanese -> English though, and the hand-written Kanji interface is great for looking up Kanji you have no idea about.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
I like classes because I need a teacher telling me what to do to get me motivated and focused (sometimes) and grades help too. However, self-study isn't necessarily a bad thing. This website has lots of information about self-study. I'd say try finding a class at school or somewhere else cheap, and then stop using dubs and say goodbye to subs, and just try doing things in Japanese. It might feel like one big setback at first, but when it clicks, it clicks. And then you'll never look back (and get pissed off when there are English menus in your Japanese games).
There are games out there that won't necessarily be bad for a beginner, either. Katamari is AWESOME for new learners. You can learn the name of everything!
I like Denshi Jisho because sometimes I can't find a word because I see it conjugated in a way I haven't learned yet, and it helps me find examples with sentences for different words and kanji.
Astronaut, I wouldn't really recommend neglecting subtitles until you have a really good grasp of the language. I can understand English completely without subtitles, but I still read them when I'm watching cable TV because trying not to look at them makes it harder for me to understand (while not having them there at all would not give problems understanding anything).
For those of you confused, English is not my native language.
I like Denshi Jisho because sometimes I can't find a word because I see it conjugated in a way I haven't learned yet, and it helps me find examples with sentences for different words and kanji.
My teacher directed us to this one. I usually just use the one on my phone (Kotoba! for iPhone, I think its on Android, too) since I am generally on the go, but denshi jisho is really nice.
I have one acquaintance who watches each episode twice- once without subtitles, and once again with to confirm everything. I personally don't have the time to do this, but if you wanted to try I suppose its an option. In general, I wouldn't recommend cutting off subs immediately, though. They can be a nice way of learning new (occasionally strange) vocabulary.
I use Aedict for Android and it's pretty great. I tried to find Kotoba for Android, but I couldn't find it at the time. Not sure if any of the ones available are by the same guy or not.
Extremely slowly working my way through Chrono Trigger whilst ignoring Kanji. I really don't know how to find them in an online dictionary, but at least I'm trying to find my way through te form .
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
i think the easiest way to identify kanji is to just play a game with furigana, though that might be harder to find
i had a quiz today on te form! it went pretty alright i thought
Well done man. I just found this http://lrnj.com/ it seems pretty cool, at least the free version that is. IF anyone has payed for the full version, what is it like?
Grats on your quiz man! I just had my first big test two days ago, a conversation exam. Did ok as well, lessons learned and whatnot .
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
only thing is i blanked on one of the kanji, but ehh i got the rest of them
i feel like kanji aren't very easy to learn in a class setting, maybe it's just me
I like classes because I need a teacher telling me what to do to get me motivated and focused (sometimes) and grades help too. However, self-study isn't necessarily a bad thing. This website has lots of information about self-study. I'd say try finding a class at school or somewhere else cheap, and then stop using dubs and say goodbye to subs, and just try doing things in Japanese. It might feel like one big setback at first, but when it clicks, it clicks. And then you'll never look back (and get pissed off when there are English menus in your Japanese games).
There are games out there that won't necessarily be bad for a beginner, either. Katamari is AWESOME for new learners. You can learn the name of everything!
What an awesome resource that site is! Thanks!
Smoogy-1689
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
only thing is i blanked on one of the kanji, but ehh i got the rest of them
i feel like kanji aren't very easy to learn in a class setting, maybe it's just me
Have you heard of Heisig's Remembering The Kanji? It's a book series that I keep seeing recommended for helping learn kanji. I know some people that have tried and it really helps them.
Otherwise, flashcards (I wholeheartedly recommend Anki as you can find it on just about every OS out there).
I do calligraphy (with their pronunciation and meaning, as well as its stroke order) in order to be able to remember kanji. It worked marvelously for me for N5.
My teacher does Kanji History explanations (break down the Kanji and tells us what each part means, or sometimes meant before it was changed, etc.), and then I usually write my own flashcards. Also, if you are at a university, I like to take over empty classrooms and practice writing Kanji on the boards if I have a few minutes to spare. Something about doing them big and deliberately is nice, I feel. But really, its all about practice, practice, practice.
I've heard a lot of recommendations for Heisig from beginners, but I've never met an advanced student who said that that was how they learned. I have some misgivings about the idea of learning the "meanings" of the characters separately from their readings.
Personally, I learned about 1200 kanji in a year using:
1. Rote memorization (I bought a few notebooks filled with graph paper and would repeatedly wrote the kanji I was studying)
2. Flashcards
3. KanjiLab, which is hands down the best kanji study software I've seen. I think requiring students to actually type in reading rather than just telling themselves "yeah, I know that one" and clicking "next" makes a huge difference.
I spent way too much time this week playing Taiko Risshiden, this time as a merchant. I'm going to set it aside for a little bit so I don't burn out then play a game as a ninja or pirate, I think.
I'm a little tempted to do a Let's Play for the game, but don't know how well that would work because of the whole foreign language thing.
How much study should I expect before I'm ready to play Disgaea/Fire Emblem type games in Japanese? Doing classes and playing Slime Forest Adventure on the side for extra kanji. Is expecting three years time of intense study too naive?
Posts
yeah, so like I said
I love you, Mr. North. Next time I have a craving for something that I can't order from Western online shops, I'll try Tenso.
I took a Japanese class last semester and I'm gonna continue with it this upcoming semester.
I've got Hiragana and Katakana (mostly) down, the focus will be more on Kanji from now on. But still..reading anything is pretty darn intimidating to me still, even stuff in the textbook we use..playing a game is pretty much still out of the question for me.
Actually, Pokémon is probably gonna help you a lot. Most moves are conjugated in dictionary form and you can look up their meanings on Bulbapedia. Believe me, it helps A LOT. The only problem is that they probably don't explain certain puns like the one in Draco Meteor (in Japanese, it's called Ryuuseigun, which means "meteoric swarm" but the fact that it has "ryuu" in its name makes it a dragon-type move).
You're right that Tenso's probably the best way to go in general. But they also ship by EMS, which is the most expensive way. I'd be willing to wait a couple weeks to have a company ship by SAL for half the cost. (But in my case I have friends in Japan who I could have ship things to me if there's something I really feel I have to have).
But getting back on-topic, I just learned that the some of the 大航海の時代 series of games were released in English under the name "Uncharted Waters". Anyone played them? Are they any good?
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
Keep in mind, though, for your goal, that Japanese is said to require the most hours of any language for an English speaker to achieve competency in. Not trying to crush dreams, but trying to give them some perspective.
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
Other than those, I did my best, but eventually failed in such classics as SMT: If, Majin Tensei and Breath of Fire III. I don't know much japanese.
Haha, yeah I've heard the same thing. I'm not sure how well I'd do, but at least I could try
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
Yeah, classes are the way to go for exactly these reasons. It keeps you on your toes and you're actually speaking the language.
Bonus points if the other people in your class and your sensei are fun - luckily for me they were in my case.
But yeah, don't expect to play games or read manga anytime soon. There are way, way, way too many Kanji :P
Note: Yotsuba is probably better in this regard because it deals with everyday things, whereas Pokemon has some rather specific vocabulary that you probably won't be learning in entry-level classes (if you have a dictionary handy its fine, but its a lot of work to be constantly looking up words, I prefer to just read as much as I can).
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
This is not off-topic. I began learning hiragana and katakana, but I found myself stuck out of fear to learn kanji (I didn't know which kanji belonged to what levels and stuff) and the only thing I ever did besides reading the most basic of basic Japanese lessons was checking a dictionary (JLookUp) when I felt curious about words and needed to learn some (I got a Japanese copy of LeafGreen and knowing your attacks is important for a competitive player). But I didn't know how to conjugate correctly until a group of young people (around my age, actually) started teaching Japanese for free last year. I learn a LOT and I can actually conjugate and understand basic Japanese conversations.
So yeah, Pokémon and classes are the way to go.
maybe after you learn the basics though you could study by yourself? I dunno. I'm gonna try playing ni no kuni over summer with google nearby to help translate stuff. watching a video, I could understand a lot of what there was in menus etc, and some conversation (though it was blurry)
As for dictionaries, I'm quite partial to this one: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C
I generally prefer to use 英辞郎, though it can be hard for beginners since (like those found in electronic dictionaries) it was made for Japanese speakers.
There are games out there that won't necessarily be bad for a beginner, either. Katamari is AWESOME for new learners. You can learn the name of everything!
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
Astronaut, I wouldn't really recommend neglecting subtitles until you have a really good grasp of the language. I can understand English completely without subtitles, but I still read them when I'm watching cable TV because trying not to look at them makes it harder for me to understand (while not having them there at all would not give problems understanding anything).
For those of you confused, English is not my native language.
Japanese subtitles for Japanese stuff is awesome. It's like furigana for movies and anime.
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
Don't get me wrong, when I watch DVDs, I never turn subtitles on.
My teacher directed us to this one. I usually just use the one on my phone (Kotoba! for iPhone, I think its on Android, too) since I am generally on the go, but denshi jisho is really nice.
I have one acquaintance who watches each episode twice- once without subtitles, and once again with to confirm everything. I personally don't have the time to do this, but if you wanted to try I suppose its an option. In general, I wouldn't recommend cutting off subs immediately, though. They can be a nice way of learning new (occasionally strange) vocabulary.
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
i had a quiz today on te form! it went pretty alright i thought
Grats on your quiz man! I just had my first big test two days ago, a conversation exam. Did ok as well, lessons learned and whatnot
i feel like kanji aren't very easy to learn in a class setting, maybe it's just me
What an awesome resource that site is! Thanks!
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
Have you heard of Heisig's Remembering The Kanji? It's a book series that I keep seeing recommended for helping learn kanji. I know some people that have tried and it really helps them.
Otherwise, flashcards (I wholeheartedly recommend Anki as you can find it on just about every OS out there).
They work really well together. One is a writing program with built in dictionary functions and the other lets you make digital flash card lists!
Enjoy!
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
Personally, I learned about 1200 kanji in a year using:
1. Rote memorization (I bought a few notebooks filled with graph paper and would repeatedly wrote the kanji I was studying)
2. Flashcards
3. KanjiLab, which is hands down the best kanji study software I've seen. I think requiring students to actually type in reading rather than just telling themselves "yeah, I know that one" and clicking "next" makes a huge difference.
I'm a little tempted to do a Let's Play for the game, but don't know how well that would work because of the whole foreign language thing.