How does one form a game design team without being raged at?

galdon

Now, honestly, I've been around the internet a while watching, and I don't think I've seen a topic cause quite so much rage as 'I have a game idea...' threads, no matter how well written some of them might be, the result is people getting offended by it's very presence and verbally attacking the person over every little flaw they have as though they didn't realize they weren't perfect and were therefor trying to get help.

Personally, it is my dream to be a game designer, but because of seeing this; it has been quite difficult to work up the courage to start trying to build a team and have instead been trying to learn every part of game design on my own. It is not working. I have a bizarre ability to get bugs in almost any program that google can't even find, My art is getting decent but my 3D model designing is lacking, and I can't wrap my head around skins, and I have no musical talent.

I KNOW I can't make a good game like this, and most good games HAVE a team. So, I really have no idea what separates those that get flamed into infinity and those that get a team. Unless those that get a team have a great big sack of money anyway; something else I sadly lack. At the moment I am probably as far away from my dream job as is possible; making just enough to live on at the sewer plant in town. Tried kickstarter to raise funds to build a team with but that is also not looking promising.

The thing is though, and here come the evil deadly words 'i have an idea' that I really, really want to make. Its really all I've been able to think about for over a month. Is there anything I can do to find help to make this game?

This is a discription of the idea it's self, as much as I've managed to get from my head 'onto paper' anyway: http://novacorp-online.net/tear.htm

Mojo_Jojo

If you can't program it or do the art or sound then what are you bringing to the table? I don't want to repeat what you must already know, but there's no job for an "ideas man". Having ideas is easy. The guys making games have them all the time. They do not need to pay you for yours.

If you want to do this, then start doing it. Get a CS or Computer Graphics/Animation degree, build yourself a portfolio and then get some experience in the industry. Then you'll have the contacts to go out on your own.

Taking the indie-bedroom route is harder, but if you don't succeed via the first route and you actually want to do this, then you should go for it.

Not being good at any of the actual work is an excuse, and it's a crap one. You're bad at it now. Getting better takes work. Work at it.

The only way you can become "the ideas man" is if you become independently wealthy and can fund your own studio to make your ideas a reality. That is the longest of longshots.

Hahnsoo1

Learning how to pitch a video game (or any other) idea means learning how to write well. You don't need a team to learn how to do that. I'm not trying to be a grammar nazi here, but being able to put together a professional pitch means incorporating professional elements of written style and page design, both of which your kickstarter page lacks.

No one's going to make your perfect game for you. You'll have to bring something more to the table than just being an "idea man". Those kind of people just don't exist, in any enterprise (save for some pretty elaborate confidence games).

It's difficult to think of the original post as anything but a sitewhoring attempt, to be honest, but I'm trying to keep an open mind here. As it stands, you could probably quote your entire pitch in the span of a forum post, which does not bode well.

EDIT: The last big thread on this subject, that I can find, is here:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/18502340

Esh

First things, if you're looking to get something funded, you might want to run your proposal through a grammar/spellcheck. There's all sorts of mistakes in both the webpage and your Kickstarter. That, and I feel like you really need something to show people to get funded, not just a fairly generic idea and a webpage that looks like it was done in Microsoft Paint.

Secondly, Roguelikes are RPGs and I'm not sure what you mean by games needing strategy guides to win nowadays. That's pretty much a falsehood. I haven't run into anything yet that I've needed an actual guide for.

Thirdly, like Mojo said, get good at SOMETHING. No one needs an idea man. They need people who can DO things.

Sentry

And this is why people get raged at. Ideas are literally the easiest part of doing anything. Anyone can have an idea, and everyone does. Like everyone else said, if you suck at something, keep doing it till you get better. If you want an actual team, go to school and major in something game-creation related, make friends, make friends with talented people who like your ideas. Then go from there. Indie games are labors of love with little chance of ever making a profit, you don't need a team, you need a group of idiots who happen to love doing something so much that they will do it without ever hoping to profit from it. You can't hire for that.

acidlacedpenguin

The thing that weirds me out is I'm a graduated Computer Scientist who has created whole design documents for my game ideas complete with class hierarchies, sample algorithms, and the whole frameworks mapped out but I somehow lack the motivation and the drive to actually implement them. I seem to have all the skills requisite to make the ideas realities but life and having a real job holds me back. Anyway, maybe someday I can do it.

CyberJackal

Check out Meetup.com or the IGDA web site to see if there's any active Game Development discussion groups in your area you could become a part of. If nothing else, they could be a good source of motivation and advice.

Kerboros

Start with storyboards, not a game design document.

I'm a designer and programmer for an independent 4 man game development team, and we're on track to gross a bit over half a million in sales from iPhone games this year.

People are much more likely to take a moment to look at your drawings than read a multiple page design document that you dropped on their desk.
If you actually have real artistic ability people might even herald you as one of the best game designers they've ever seen! Even if your idea is actually totally crap.
A game design document really is nothing more than a place to organize ideas that you will probably forget later on, it's not for pitching your idea. And don't clutter it up with obvious stuff. Your team will never forget that you are building an RPG, but they might forget exact combat formulas.

If you can't make your game look fun and interesting in storyboards you should rethink your idea.

Drez

I would seriously change the aesthetic of your website, too. Lime green text on a black background with stars is like a throwback to Geocities. If someone sent me a proposal that looked like that I wouldn't even respond to them anymore. Not trying to be an asshole, just being honest here, since you asked how to attract people to your cause. That extremely vague text written on an extremely ugly website isn't going to attract anyone.

As far as the rest of your concerns go: It's not just game design. People tend to sneer on the "idea man" in other careers too. Like someone else said, anyone can have an idea. I have dozens of "what would make a good video game" ideas. I think just about every gamer does. It's a common thing. You need to bring something else to the table other than "I have an idea." Being lead designer on a game is more than just having an idea. You have to be a maestro of sorts: You need to comprehend programming, art direction, character and story development, and so on.

If you really want to make something like this happen, become proficient in a skill that would actually be used in making the game, either programming, or art, or writing, or all of those things. Then start working on it, come up with a very rough prototype, or some rough art, or some basic storyboards, or something, anything, other than just a vague description of what kind of game you want to make.

There's something to be said for a formal design proposal too, but if you're looking to attract other people via webforums, I don't think that's going to help much either.

RadicalTurnip

I assume you have an actual idea for a game, and not just complaints about other games, and a checklist of things you do like in some games? I mean, I seem to feel like there's some "reality-warping" theme going on here, but other than that, I don't even really know anything about your game. Is it Western RPG-ish wor is it Eastern RPG-esque? What's the story? Theres nothing in your pitch that makes me say "This game sounds awesome, someone needs to make this".

Sheep

You pay people money.

Wassermelone

To get a team you need skills enough to build something on mutual respect. And you need to have everyone vested in the game - they will have ideas about what the game needs to be as well, and they need to matter. IE, you need to be able to let go of the thought that your ideas are somehow special snowflakes and deserve special consideration over the other people on your team.


If you don't want to do any of that.... well there is always:

Sheep wrote:

You pay people money.

TychoCelchuuu

Nobody really sits around and comes up with ideas for books and makes forum threads asking how they can get people to write their awesome book. Nobody comes up with great ideas for movies and then makes forum threads asking how they can get a writer, director, actors, producers, and editors to make their movie for them. Nobody writes up cool descriptions of albums they'd like to listen to and makes forum threads wondering how they can rope a bunch of musicians into making it. It's no more reasonable to make a forum thread asking how you can get people to make the game you want them to make. If people are going to make a game, they're going to make the game they want to make, or they're going to make the game they're being paid to make. There's no third category, but the third category is what you're asking for.

CelestialBadger

galdon wrote:

I have a bizarre ability to get bugs in almost any program that google can't even find,

This is normal for learning to program. Keep practicing.

Also googling bugs doesn't necessarily help. Sometimes you just have to step through the code line by line and see what it is doing.

There are no short cuts to doing anything worth doing. If is was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Grey Paladin

I'd like to mention that what sounds like a good idea and what actually is a good idea are often drastically different things. Most people could not think of an idea that would translate to a good game design to save their lives. It is not something you one day wake up and know how to do well - its something you develop through practicing the subject. I'd suggest you start with board or (if thats your thing) roleplaying games to practice it a bit.

Game design is a tough job. People think that if they had the money and the team they could make the bestest game ever and become superich. In fields like tabletop roleplaying games where you can make a product on an extremely low budget you discover that no, most people can't design a game - sometimes after spending years reading about the subject. There is a constant stream of bad D&D clones that crash and burn while a few skilled authors corner the market.

I wish you good luck - this is my dream field as well - but as the others have said, if you can't show a game you already designed to other people or blow them away with some amazing elevator pitch you need to bring something else to the table.

VeritasVR

I would think the smart business person would consider a "game" as a secondary (or even tertiary) product, rather than the primary. Example: You are making SOFTWARE, this is the primary product. This software has all the workings of other software products, so you would basically be constructing software.

It's only once you look further into this software product that its inputs/outputs are coded with the characteristics of PROGRAM: graphics engine, user interface, etc.

Looking even further into the program, you see that the graphics and interface and all that jazz has things like dialogue, characters, camera, statistics, and algorithms, which is the GAME.

The game should absolutely not be your starting point. The software should be your starting point. Focus on learning software and constructing a way to produce software. Then you can focus on how to produce programs. Then you can focus on how to produce games. It doesn't work the other way around, as many have tried and literally none have succeeded (because it's impossible).

Grey Paladin

Countless developers have fallen prey to making incredibly bad games with good technology. Not that I disagree with you that he should learn programming but game design is a field on itself - one which is constantly underestimated by everyone under the sun. To name one huge example that flopped: Elementa: War of Magic's engine has been in work for a few years wherein the actual game mechanics were only developed in the last few months of production. You can make a movie using the most brilliant cinematography ever convieved but it won't sell if it has no content. Knowing a lot of fancy words and proper grammer does not means you know how to write.

No part is more important than any other, for the whole is only created by joining the separate together.

The primary reason you actually need to sell yourself on something other than game design is the prevailing myth that anyone can do it well.

neville

acidlacedpenguin wrote:

The thing that weirds me out is I'm a graduated Computer Scientist who has created whole design documents for my game ideas complete with class hierarchies, sample algorithms, and the whole frameworks mapped out but I somehow lack the motivation and the drive to actually implement them. I seem to have all the skills requisite to make the ideas realities but life and having a real job holds me back. Anyway, maybe someday I can do it.

This illustrates my point; even as a CS graduate you don't know what a true design document is. So the OP is pretty screwed here.

A design document is exactly that; design. It describes systems, algorithms pertaining only to design (I.e. how is attack power calculated), etc.
Class hierarchies in the code sense, frameworks, etc do not belong there. That goes in a technical document.


Back to the OP, the biggest problem -- not trying to offend here -- is that if all you are is an "ideas guy", then you have no value.
EVERYONE has ideas. Anyone can come up with great, innovative ones. But here's the rub; that doesn't help. Plenty of games aren't super original, but turn out to be great.
A good game comes from good execution. A single good hook can go a long way (Mega Man gets a unique power up from bosses. Bionic Commando has his grappling hook. etc), but the execution is what separates the wheat from the chaff.

And a game designer doesn't just say "hey here's an idea" -- they design how it works. Down to every last detail. The programmer(s) will code it to work, but the designers job is to make the levels, design how everything should work and feel. Again, if you haven't done anything like this, then you're missing the point of what a designer does.

If you have no experience making a game, honestly just finding people on the internet is a waste of time. It is a lot of hard work. As soon as you get out of the "hey we have some ideas, cool" phase, you get into the shitty "Oh man, we have to make EVERYTHING" phase which kills a lot of games. Very few people who haven't gone to school or spent a lot of time learning are going to be able to succeed here, especially if you're talking about something large enough to require a team.
If you really want to do this, look into some mega simple games first using Flash, possibly Unity, etc.

Sebbie

I think everyone nailed it with you needing to bring something to the table.

I just wanted to chime in and say that people often have grandiose ideas about what would be the perfect game but fail to realize just how much work is needed to finish these. What I would recommend to you is to try your hand at making smaller games to get the hang of starting a project and bringing it to release. Since you mentioned not having any programming skills I'd recommend downloading something like GameMaker or RPG Maker (since your game is a RPG) and messing around with them.

neville

Sebbie wrote:

I think everyone nailed it with you needing to bring something to the table.

I just wanted to chime in and say that people often have grandiose ideas about what would be the perfect game but fail to realize just how much work is needed to finish these. What I would recommend to you is to try your hand at making smaller games to get the hang of starting a project and bringing it to release. Since you mentioned not having any programming skills I'd recommend downloading something like GameMaker or RPG Maker (since your game is a RPG) and messing around with them.

Those are both excellent suggestions.
Use them to make a game and try out some ideas.

Then if someone says "Well if I'm programming, what can you do", you can show them your designs in action.

TheBigEasy

I'll second the idea of trying your hand at board games or pen & paper RPG's first ... You can do that without needing to know programming, you don't need to draw anything or do 3D models. Take your idea and start looking at how you want this game played, what are the mechanics, what is the goal of the game, how do people get there. Flesh this idea out as much as you can, and as detailed as you can.

No offense, but what you have put up on that webpage of yours is no idea ... From that text alone I have no clue about what this game actually is or is about.

Most in here have said "nobody needs an idea-man" ... and they are right. You need to do alot more work before you can start recruiting people to your cause, and none of this work has anything to do with coding or 3D modeling.

galdon

Hm.. Not much I can respond to with words here without trying to defend myself. I am asking to try to learn how to do this the right way.

Sorry about the vagueness of my descriptions, I was trying to avoid spoilers, but since it's been pointed out a few times, I realize this isn't a time for spoiler avoidance, but a time to show everything I have. I'll be going in and fixing that as soon as I finish this post.

While admittedly my writing may not be 'Masters Degree in English' level, My strong-suit seems to be writing, by which I include down the the finer details like dialogue not just 'writing' a simple idea for someone else to flesh out. As well, while 3D art is still beyond my grasp; My 2D artwork is fairly decent. I could probably stand to polish up my art more, but its been improving quickly. This game is going to be in 2D, so I will be providing the story and script, as well as the artwork.

anyways; I'm tempted to say more and reply to more things, but really I should be spending this time fixing the problems I have. Thank you for the replies, even if some of them are a bit hostile sounding, I'll be back in a bit after I finish fixing some of these issues to see what you think.

Druhim

People aren't being hostile, they're being honest.

galdon

Oh I get its honest; i meant the exact wording of some posts comes off feeling hostile.

Hahnsoo1

galdon wrote:

While admittedly my writing may not be 'Masters Degree in English' level, My strong-suit seems to be writing, by which I include down the the finer details like dialogue not just 'writing' a simple idea for someone else to flesh out.

Not to be mean, but writing does not seem like a strong suit for you yet, from what I've read on these few forum posts and your page. For example, you wrote up a bunch of "reality-bending" crap, but no one really knows what you are talking about. The point of writing is to communicate a concept or idea. Keep at it, though, and keep practicing writing. You will get better. Learn to proofread yourself and pick out the details, while learning how to write in a professional style.

Also, ditch the lime-green on black background. At the very least, clone a better website design.

Druhim

One of the quickest ways to lose any shred of credibility you may have as a fledgling artist is to get all bent out of shape when people give you sincere and honest feedback about what you need to do to actually create something that people are going to give two shits about. The biggest lie is that good artists are just "gifted" with talent. No, it takes a fuckload of hard work and practice. People in here have told you how to start down that path to making your dream a reality instead of just putting something up on kickstarter that no one with a lick of sense is going to touch.

At this point, you have two options. You can take that feedback to heart and actually put some meaningful work into making something, or misinterpret the feedback as a personal attack against you and keep believing that your ideas are special and unique snowflakes that just need to be shopped to the right people who will realize your genius and make it a reality.

galdon

That's why I said thank you for the posts despite that some of them, felt at least to me, to be hostile, and also why I said I am trying not to get defensive. I want to learn.

I changed the lime green to white for now until I find a color scheme that people don't hate; I was going for a sort of retro theme with the digital font and green on black color. And yes, the reality bending is part of the spoilers that I was trying to avoid. I'm working on detailing that out more now Hahnsoo

amateurhour

Putting up a kickstarter page before you even had a team to work on this game was a really bad idea, unless you already have some family member looking to float you the rest of the money. Because you will probably not make the $1500 and if you do get some genuinely interested people to donate, they're just going to end up getting their money back, and likely won't donate again.

I don't know the exact numbers, but I recall reading that when a kickstarter fails the amount of donators likely to donate again to a project is pretty low.

galdon wrote:

The thing is though, and here come the evil deadly words 'i have an idea' that I really, really want to make. Its really all I've been able to think about for over a month. Is there anything I can do to find help to make this game?

this, this right here is why you shouldn't have put up a kickstarter... Have you only been thinking of this for a month, or have you only been serious about making it for a month? Either way, a month is nothing.

You should have this entire game scripted, and all character art done to the best of your ability before you even consider getting others to join the project. You should have a project plan, a business marketing plan, a compensation sharing plan since you won't be able to pay anyone for helping you make it up front, a distribution plan, and a full detailed schedule of production first.

You should definitely pick up RPG maker or game maker and at least make some models/scripts/demo levels/gameplay examples to learn story development on a game board and basic control schemes, even if the game isn't going to use that engine when it's done.

The entire game should also have a storyboard before you start development work.

Speaking of engines, do you have one picked out? have you sourced supplies, hardware, and software? Is this going to be a 360 release, and if so have you looked into the XNA requirements? The people you bring on board aren't going to magically have all of this stuff, they're going to want to know what you're planning to use.

If this seems hostile, it is, because it's the honest truth. You're nowhere near the point where you should be asking the public for money.

Having said that, the glory of RPG Maker, XNA, C Sharp, and the internet is that there are thousands of people out there just like you, and a lot of them are willing to work on a collaborative project. It's led to some amazing shit in the G&T section alone...

This can be done, and you can do it, but stop thinking everyone here is just yelling at you and start taking the advice.

Put your art up on the A/C and get some critiques, put your storylines and ideas up in the writer's block as well.

galdon

Yeah, I realize I probably jumped the gun on starting the kickstarter project. And I am taking the advice I'm being given, I'm actively, right now specifically working on fixing the things people have said need fixing. As for the amount asked for on the kickstarter; I thought I was aiming low; as the recommended scale was 1,000-5,000 and I went with 1,500.

815165

How are you planning to spend the $1500 should you receive it?

Druhim

I don't know if it's possible to take down/cancel a kickstarter you created, but amateur is absolutely right that it's way too early for you to be asking anyone for money.

galdon

815165 wrote:

How are you planning to spend the $1500 should you receive it?

I would spend it on paying the members of the team for their work, and if I can't make it in flash which would be free to distribute (which it's looking like i probably will not be able to, as it's pretty big) it would also go towards paying for costs related to distribution.

@druhim: it can be cancelled, though cancelling it and it failing funding have basically the same effect so I was planning to just let it run it's course at this point since I don't see it going anywhere, short of an unexpected random burst of interest.

JacksWastedLife

galdon wrote:

815165 wrote:

How are you planning to spend the $1500 should you receive it?

I would spend it on paying the members of the team for their work, and if I can't make it in flash which would be free to distribute (which it's looking like i probably will not be able to, as it's pretty big) it would also go towards paying for costs related to distribution.

@druhim: it can be cancelled, though cancelling it and it failing funding have basically the same effect so I was planning to just let it run it's course at this point since I don't see it going anywhere, short of an unexpected random burst of interest.

Bwuh? Hosting costs money in the real world.

galdon

JacksWastedLife wrote:

galdon wrote:

815165 wrote:

How are you planning to spend the $1500 should you receive it?

I would spend it on paying the members of the team for their work, and if I can't make it in flash which would be free to distribute (which it's looking like i probably will not be able to, as it's pretty big) it would also go towards paying for costs related to distribution.

@druhim: it can be cancelled, though cancelling it and it failing funding have basically the same effect so I was planning to just let it run it's course at this point since I don't see it going anywhere, short of an unexpected random burst of interest.

Bwuh? Hosting costs money in the real world.

Kongregate doesn't charge you to upload a game to them. But they have a filesize restriction, which I, upon further inspection, may end up hitting due to the scale of the game.

Esh

galdon wrote:

While admittedly my writing may not be 'Masters Degree in English' level...

Your writing is barely high school level.

galdon wrote:

815165 wrote:

How are you planning to spend the $1500 should you receive it?

I would spend it on paying the members of the team for their work, and if I can't make it in flash which would be free to distribute (which it's looking like i probably will not be able to, as it's pretty big) it would also go towards paying for costs related to distribution.

So you're planning on paying one person a barely livable wage for one month?

You need to take this entire project back to square one. You are way ahead of yourself here.

L Ron Howard

I don't quite want to jump on the shit parade, but there are a few things that I'm seeing that I hope help you. Sorry that it's pretty harsh, but....

First of all, do you have a prototype developed? How do you know what the size will be? Neither your documents or kickstarter page indicate anything. What do the graphics look like? What kind of Rogue-like are you playing that has a file size larger than 15MB? Is this going to be fully-voice acted with fully 3D rendered cutscenes by professional voice actors and thousands of hours spent adding the tiniest details to each frame? Are we talking something here akin to a Pixar movie in the production?

Second of all is the whole business part. If I'm a developer or artist, and you want me to come help you on your project, what exactly are you offering me? Is this something I would do in my spare time to help you after work? Would I be living in another room of your house for two or three months after work while we, as a team, finish this? How is this going to make money for you to justify needing some funding up front? What does $1500 or $5000 buy you? What does it buy me? What good will working on your project do for me? Would this be something I would like to put my name on? Are you going to not be working a full-time job so that you can complete the game? Will I and the rest of the team be doing so as well?

As someone who might have stumbled upon your page, why would I want to donate to yet another computer game? Why would I donate to yet another Rogue-like game? I don't see anything justifying why you need the money in the first place.

You've mentioned Flash. Why Flash? Why is this not in your documentation, like what platform this will be on? How are you going to distribute this and make money (yeah, I kinda already asked this same question)? Why not just take the Nethack source code and add in whatever additions you feel it needs? What do your modifications or alterations or additions to Rogue-likes really add that would make me want to play your game?

Is this ad supported, or will I have to pay for it separately? Will you have a site dedicated to it where I can buy it, or will it be on a digital distribution service like Steam, or am I getting this for free on Kongregate or Newgrounds or something like your own website?

From a marketing perspective, if I saw this up on Newgrounds, what would make me want to play the game? What will you have that will keep me playing for a few seconds before deciding this is amateurish tripe made by a 13 year-old in his basement after school? If this is a Flash game, you have to deliver a shitton of stuff up front to keep me on the page for more than like five minutes tops. If this is a game I'm paying for, the quality should be immediately visible, and I'll want to keep playing and not to feel that I've wasted my money. How much will this cost me in terms of time to see that it's a good game, and how much will it cost me in terms of money to play your game?

Also, as to be a bit nit-picky, Rogue-likes and Nethacks do not involve more than one person. Are you trying to build another Final Fantasy game, with lots of plot and a several-character party? Is this going to play like FF for NES or FF3 for Nintendo DS or something? What exactly is your intent? This is confusing to me, as the two are only comparable in that they offer an above view of things. Maybe this is going to be some weird sort of Septerra Core looking things where the party moves around and you run into enemies to engage in combat separately? Or maybe you just hit the attack button and everyone attacks in real-time?

Some more things that you should have in your design document that you really need to think out:
How do the mechanics work out? How do I move the character or avatar around? What will I be looking at on each screen? What does each screen look like? How does the combat flow? What do all the dialog boxes or whatever look like (assuming this is a FF clone)? Is there things like crafting, or is that right out? And, as others have mentioned, for things like combat, you need the formulas on how things work. How do weapons make you more powerful, and armors help you? What does magic do? Are there magical items like rings and stuff you can equip?
You need to figure out your features list, what you need to have, what you want to have, what you will not have, and what you can if you have the time.
You need to describe everything in great detail. I should be able to see your page and duplicate all your work and have an almost identical game (so maybe not post it online, or at least some of it). This is something you should have. This is basic software design too. As others have said, look into software design first, and go from there.

Since you've said that your strongest point is your artistry, maybe give your game a very good style, and go from there. If you're a good writer, get a good storyline and script, and go from there. Work on your strengths first, then move on up to the other details. But make a plan and stick to it. A few random details here and there on an Angelfire-like website is hardly inspiring to anything. As you're showing this to us now, if you were to ask me to help you I'd laugh. I'm sure nearly everyone else would too, as there's nothing to go off of.

galdon

Esh, I can't help but notice you live in France according to your location indicator. British English and American English have different grammar. Since I live in America, my grammar is likely to be different from what you are accustom to seeing. The only reason I say this is I know my writing is above high school level. I've been to High School. I've passed High School, and my writing SAT score came back as a fair bit above average when I took it. I'm trying hard not to get defensive; but you make that difficult when you say things in that manner.

Maybe I underestimate how much I'd need to pay someone to work in their spare time on something. Personally if I was told I'd be given just $100 to draw a picture a day for the next month I'd be all over that, though I know other people who charge 60 dollars for just ONE commission. I'm looking for people who already want to work together with other people to make a good game, and they monetary compensation would be in exchange for working on my idea.

EDIT: you posted while I was typing, Ron, I'm not ignoring you, let me read what you wrote real quick so I can reply..

TychoCelchuuu

Like L Ron Howard I am a little wary to add to the "you need to rethink things" pile because you've already lumped the rest of the extremely correct, not at all hostile comments into the "seemed hostile to me" category, which suggests a sort of refusal to understand what's going on (which is ironically what you asked for help with in this thread, so interpreting the advice as hostile is really only hurting yourself in exactly the ways you're trying not to get hurt, but whatever...), BUT:

Leaving aside your writing, which other people have adequately addressed, your art just doesn't strike me as very fantastic. I mean... it doesn't look great, or even good. You don't even understand what colors look good on a website, let alone how to draw/color people and shields and stuff. I mean, just try to be brutally honest with yourself for a second. Does this:



look like the kind of art you see in the games you like to play? Do you think you can make a successful roguelike that looks like this? Let's take two of the most popular roguelikes these days, Nethack and The Binding of Isaac. Nethack is ASCII and Isaac has the unique art style of the Super Meat Boy artist dude. Both of them are examples of ways to succeed: either target the people who want massive detail rather than pretty stuff, or be an awesome artist. Your art just isn't at that level right now. Perhaps you're an amazing artist who has simply uploaded his two worst pieces to his website, but given your analysis of your own writing (which is wildly off base) I would say you're also wrong about your 2d abilities.

This isn't hostile, it's just the answer to why you can't seem to get your game made despite being a great writer, a great artist, and a great game designer. It turns out you're not either of the first two and nobody cares if you're the third. If you want to think that we're all jerks for telling you the truth, that's fine. You can continue to live in denial and continually wonder why nobody wants to make your game for you. Or, you could re-read all the responses in this thread, realize that we are not being hostile because we are not jerks except for Esh sometimes and in this case he's not being a jerk, and then take the advice we're giving you.

edit: okay you replied while I replied, and while I've been talking about the art, Esh is 100% correct. You're not a good writer. I'm sorry. If you want to stay in denial of that, that's fine, but you can't blame us for telling you the truth when you came here asking "why won't my game get made" and the answer is "you bring no skills to the table." That's just how it is. For example, when you say

galdon wrote:

Since I live in America, my grammar is likely to be different from what you are accustom to seeing.

you're not making a good case for the whole "I can write" thing, and when your chief evidence for writing above high school level is that you've graduated high school and scored well on the SAT, well, as a fellow American I can tell you that I know people who have graduated from college and who aced the SATs that don't write above a high school level. Writing is hard. Read more books. Etc.

zilo

You need to develop your technical skills. Game design is a technical position, much more so than it is a creative position. Pick an engine, any engine (Unreal, Unity, Crysis, Gamebryo, doesn't matter) and become an expert using its editor. If you can't become an expert in an editor, maybe game design is not in the cards for you because those are the tools they use to execute their design.

Make maps, then graduate to mods, then make small games. Your "big idea" game is a long, long way off and probably not doable on your own, nor are you going to find competent talent by yourself (the good ones have their own projects and/or work in the industry). If you really, really want to do that exact idea, start learning to write code. It takes about 10 years to reach expert level from nothing, give or take a few depending on what you do for a day job.

Sorry. I know it's harsh, but that's game development. If it were easy anyone could do it.

galdon

Most roguelikes aren't over 15 megabytes.. but they also aren't very graphics heavy. The graphics will be 2D, top down tile based visuals in the dungeon, the character walking will be animated, anime-style artwork for scene backgrounds, and characters in various poses and expressions. Dialogue will be in text, beside a picture of the character in the appropriate pose for their mood, protagonist is not silent, and you will be able to choose dialogue in appropriate situations to affect certain scenes and influence how certain characters feel about you.

Its more RPG with Roguelike elements, rather than mostly roguelike with RPG elements, which is why I can't just copy nethack. A lot of other things you are asking I will probably need to draw so I'll have that up probably in a few days; as it takes me a bit of time to draw. Anyways, I'll get to adding this stuff to the discription pages.

galdon

Celchuuu, I didn't even say what posts I felt were hostile; so, please don't assume I meant I thought most of them were. Scarlett's picture is specifically the *first* concept art; which I say in the video of drawing it, that's not the final artwork. What will actually be in the game is going to be considerably more polished. I never said my art was great in the first place; i said it was 'decent' two different times I believe.

Your post though does come off as hostile because you are making radical assumptions about ME making radical assumptions, then railing on me for making radical assumptions. I don't think I even ONCE said any of my skills were masterwork level or anything close. the best I've said about any of my skills opinion wise is 'decent' and indicating which of my skills is strongest OF my skills. also, my color scheme I already said was based on the retro green on black color of old computers, which i changed as soon as I was told it bothered people. That look has a real source that I was going with, it wasn't an arbitrary thing.

As well, I am not asking 'Why oh why isn't my game being made?' I'm asking 'How do I go about this without offending people?' Honestly, I'm working on fixing things as people advise, so far though not one person i think has even said 'that's looking better, now lets look at this thing' or 'oh i see you are working on following our advise, good.' I am only human, there is a limit to how quickly I can work, so magically fixing every one of the many problems I have instantly is beyond me.