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[Dark Souls] If only I could be so grossly incandescent (as Durante) - Res fix in OP

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Posts

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Lork wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Pyromancy is absolutely game breaking because it relies on literally nothing other than money for its potency, and once it's maxed out you'll be able to kill virtually every boss in the game in a few hits
    All magic relies on nothing other than money for its potency. The "advantage" of pyromancy is that investing in it doesn't raise your soul level, but you're still investing in it. Those souls would've otherwise went into stats.

    This right here is pure goosery.

    Not having to raise your soul level to max out pyromancy is one of the greatest things ever, because you can increase any other stat instead of worry about some magic stat.

    Hi, I'm a level 35 dark wraith and I just troll people all day erryday with my maxed out ascended pyromancy flame. There is literally nothing they can do to stop me, either. I just walk up and explode them. They die.

    Any boss? Like, 3 fireballs. Except the spider, you know, because fire doesn't work. You know what does? Trololol steel skin and smack her a few times wherein she cant hurt you or anything because holy crap steel skin is the most broken thing in broken town.

    There are a lot of unbalanced things, but even after the balance patch to 'fix' it, pyromancy is still the cheapest, quickest, most efficient and effective way to utterly break 98% of the challenges the game throws at you. And its useable by any build. Any of them. So you can even double dip with a crazy Bgaxe or black bow build or something. You know, just so you can be utterly broken in several ways, at once. With no need to make any concessions in your other broken build.

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  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    any level 35 darkwraith is going to have some way, some plan to imbalance a given matchup in his favor - otherwise he wouldn't be attempting the 4K at 35 - and honestly pyro is a little bit overrated in that aspect. lagstabs/an armor set fully upgraded with chunks and slabs can essentially accomplish the exact same thing, likely with less work since I'm fairly sure a totally maxed flame is expensive as fuck.

    3-shotting bosses trivializes the game even harder than having to empty your spellbook at them, I can't imagine having any fun that way and I don't envy anyone who actually does that their first playthrough. it's like getting 27M souls and actually spending them, it'll shorten and cheapen the experience. I really don't see anything wrong with basic pyromancy, but it is the one playstyle I haven't fully explored so if you read this and feel compelled to tear me to shreds, I probably deserve it.

    edit: oooooook it's fairly cheap, an hour of forest grinding tops. still nobody forcing you to do it in your own single player progression, in pvp great combustion spammers get shut down hard by black knight shield and any longer casts are in serious danger of being rolled and backstabbed.

    Torgairon on
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Torgairon wrote: »
    any level 35 darkwraith is going to have some way, some plan to imbalance a given matchup in his favor - otherwise he wouldn't be attempting the 4K at 35 - and honestly pyro is a little bit overrated in that aspect. lagstabs/an armor set fully upgraded with chunks and slabs can essentially accomplish the exact same thing, likely with less work since I'm fairly sure a totally maxed flame is expensive as fuck.

    3-shotting bosses trivializes the game even harder than having to empty your spellbook at them, I can't imagine having any fun that way and I don't envy anyone who actually does that their first playthrough. it's like getting 27M souls and actually spending them, it'll shorten and cheapen the experience. I really don't see anything wrong with basic pyromancy, but it is the one playstyle I haven't fully explored so if you read this and feel compelled to tear me to shreds, I probably deserve it.

    edit: oooooook it's fairly cheap, an hour of forest grinding tops. still nobody forcing you to do it in your own single player progression, in pvp great combustion spammers get shut down hard by black knight shield and any longer casts are in serious danger of being rolled and backstabbed.

    You act like you cant roll behind them, backstab them, then combustion them as they stand up and instantly kill them. You dont have to just walk up and combustion. if they have a shield, you treat it a bit different, (Though trololo a poison/acid cloud is fine too.)
    Or, you know, just power within. Or even firestream does crazy damage and has a quick recovery.

    Pyromancy just literally has so many options that isn't just the near omnipotent combustion spam. If you happen to have like.. a weapon. Any weapon at all, along with it? You know, instead of 'just' rocking a flame for the lulz as it were? Man, its pretty easy to be unstoppable. Both against people and against the game. (I think my best was 3 on 1 in Blight town.)

    Full havels+bk stuff is kind of a pain, but more because its a slow and boring battle of attrition as you burn them down and not because its particularly difficult.

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  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    if you've gotten the backstab, you could kill them with most anything at that point...

    the problem, as I've always seen it, is that people can stall and kite against pyromancy forever if it isn't combustion spam unless they're >50% load. I can't think of a single spell that forces me to drop my BKS and start taking pyro users seriously while backing up until they get bored and put the flame away. if people facing pyromancers let themselves end up in a corner to be clouded, they're being seriously outplayed.

    in pve, all spells have the exact same effect on bosses even if the numbers are disparate. my full sorc absolutely murdered bosses with no effort, my cleric spammed lightning spears...it's all the same trivialization, but with different kill rates. I honestly do not see why it matters if people who can kill bosses with melee choose to invest souls and lob fireballs instead, it's not difficult to dump ~20 points into int on a melee character, pick up homing soulmass/soul spear and do the exact same thing you're complaining about, same for faith/lightning.

    I don't think anyone is going to disagree with you that it's a potentially imbalanced investment vs. reward ratio, so much as the overall effect that the full pyro tree really has on the gameplay compared to, well, any other hybrid build.

    Torgairon on
  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    on the subject of spells, how does the final boss fight look with a spell-focused build? my sorc never got there due to massive pvp addiction, but I always figured his relentless endurance bar obliteration would be the end of me unless I cheesed it with iron flesh. maybe moonlight greatsword + riposte could have evened the odds, but it's a relatively tough timing and that character didn't have much in the way of defense.

    Torgairon on
  • NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    put on the dark wood grain ring and black knight shield, dodge/block all of his attacks, and heal or cast when he kicks or grabs

    @nealcm @faynor
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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid I didn't choose the tiki life, the tiki life chose me Inside a bottle of rumRegistered User regular
    I won't even play the STALKER games if they aren't on Master.
    Ninja Snarl confirmed for gentleman of class and sophistication tier.
    Not having to raise your soul level to max out pyromancy is one of the greatest things ever, because you can increase any other stat instead of worry about some magic stat.
    Exactly. Being able to have a tanked up character that can still fart out thermonuclear bombs with no drawbacks save for having to grind out some extra money is kinda broken. If they do a 3rd game (which I don't doubt they will eventually) I really hope they don't do anything like Pyromancy again because it's just too good.

  • NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2012
    I wouldn't say so

    it's a really neat third option and gives a lot of flavor to non int/faith characters

    they just need to buff miracles

    Nerdgasmic on
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  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    Here's the beauty of Dark Souls: if you don't want to use Pyromancy, you don't have to. It's not a requirement. This game is as easy or difficult as you make it. If you want to try and level 1 the whole damn thing, I'm sure there's a way to do it. If you want to become a bringer of death and destruction, laying waste to all challengers, you can. That is why this game rules. And seriously, this is DARK SOULS. The game doesn't feel bad fucking you over, you should never feel bad about fucking it over. Of course, this is coming from a Demon's Souls fanatic. I've barely scratched the surface of Dark Souls.

    PSN: Fawst0083
  • Gaming-FreakGaming-Freak Registered User regular
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    I wouldn't say so

    it's a really neat third option and gives a lot of flavor to non int/faith characters

    they just need to buff miracles

    No, no, GOOD LORD, NO. Have you seen Wrath of God with a magic adjust of 240? Not to mention Tranquil Walk of Peace helps kill almost everything in PvP. That and the Lightning Spear spells.

    If anything, they should give more AoE spells for sorcerers. When they decided to separate sorcery and fire magic into two categories, they effectively crippled sorcerers as far as PvP is considered. As long as they see the spell coming and have room to maneuver, people will NEVER get hit by a soul arrow/spear/homing mass.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I've made the stern decision to use my xbox version only to beat the game and learn the basics, and wait until I buy the PC version to go all out on PvP.

    KoopahTroopah on
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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    Yeah, not only are there several good Miracle spells, but by pumping Faith, you also improve your Magic Resist. Main problem with miracles is that at low faith levels, your choices are limited (you don't get your first attack miracle until Faith 20 but Sorceries & Pyromancy get offense spells right from the start).

    Sorcery is nice in that like Pyromancy, you can get good results with a minimal investment. Get Int to 16, wield the Oolacile Catalyst and a couple of Sorcery boosting items and let the good times roll.

  • Gaming-FreakGaming-Freak Registered User regular
    Yeah, not only are there several good Miracle spells, but by pumping Faith, you also improve your Magic Resist. Main problem with miracles is that at low faith levels, your choices are limited (you don't get your first attack miracle until Faith 20 but Sorceries & Pyromancy get offense spells right from the start).

    Sorcery is nice in that like Pyromancy, you can get good results with a minimal investment. Get Int to 16, wield the Oolacile Catalyst and a couple of Sorcery boosting items and let the good times roll.

    Agreed, but if you start as a Cleric and level Faith 11 times right from the start, you can join the Sunlight Covenant (if you can pass the dragon, of course), which will get you the Lighting Spear right from the get-go. Force also has its moments; not just knocking dudes off ledges, but knocking down multiple people, allowing you to reposition yourself. Also, if you make a "suicidal" trip to the catacombs early, you can get Tranquil Walk of Peace, which only requires 18 Faith.

    Really, the best miracles come only after you complete Tomb of the Giants and save Reah, but by then you should be loaded with other miracles to help you take down just about anything.

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  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    If you start with the master key you can also get a faith scaling weapon very early on. It doesn't level all that well and it's not better than dragon longsword but I used it for awhile.

    Edit: As a side note, you can use it to kill the skeletons in the catacombs to make life easier.

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  • Gaming-FreakGaming-Freak Registered User regular
    Haha! Finally beat Valley of Defilement! Man, 5-3 boss was so EASY! Just parry/riposte him to death. Got Garl Vinland's bitchin' armor, and now it's time to make the Blueblood Sword! At last... my build will come to fruition.

    Now to complete everything else.

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    If you start with the master key you can also get a faith scaling weapon very early on. It doesn't level all that well and it's not better than dragon longsword but I used it for awhile.

    Edit: As a side note, you can use it to kill the skeletons in the catacombs to make life easier.

    Yeah, the master key lets you do all sorts of fun things early on. It's definitely a must-have if you're going faith since that faith weapon trivializes the starting areas.

    My favorite is to use the key to jump straight to the Blacksmith that sells upgrade materials. All you have to do is run past 6 enemies or so and you're there (and there's even a bonfire after you run past the Valley of Drakes so you don't even have to do it all in one run). Upgrade your weapon of choice to +2 or +3 than unlock the shortcut back to Firelink Shrine. Proceed to smash your way through the starting area for souls and items with your overpowered weapon and the stamina regen shield (which you should have grabbed on the way).

  • MundaneSoulMundaneSoul fight fighter Daehan MingukRegistered User regular
    Just started playing the game a couple nights ago. Pretty intimidating. Tried a Pyromancer but couldn't get comfortable with the playstyle. Does anyone have any advice for weapons to aim for on a strength-based Knight? Or any general advice for a Demon's/Dark Souls virgin?

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    Just started playing the game a couple nights ago. Pretty intimidating. Tried a Pyromancer but couldn't get comfortable with the playstyle. Does anyone have any advice for weapons to aim for on a strength-based Knight? Or any general advice for a Demon's/Dark Souls virgin?

    Zweihander is the weapon of choice for a lot of Strength-based builds. You can get it really early on (just run past a skeleton or two in the graveyard near the beginning of the game) and if you two-hand it, you can start using it at Str 16 (Str 24 to one-hand it).

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    I wouldn't say so

    it's a really neat third option and gives a lot of flavor to non int/faith characters

    they just need to buff miracles

    It's not a "Neat third option", it's just plain better in every imaginable way. I am astounded anyone disputes this, absolutely 100% astounded. I am not sure how useful Pyromancy is in PvP overall (I could never get the MP to work reliably), but I did know fighting anyone with it was a complete pain in the ass. The point I'm making is that it DOES trivialize the game considerably. Anyone who says that Pyromancy doesn't make things like Ornstein and Smough an absolute joke is just kidding themselves. Even though I have finished Dark Souls and am officially "Very good at Video Games" (as my numerous achievements for finishing RPGs on the hardest difficulties attests to), if I go into that fight with a melee centric character it's hard or at least difficult (New Game + on that fight was still pretty stressful!). When I played as a Pyromancer to check it out? I spent all of 3 minutes and carried on wondering what the deal was. A fight that was one of the most intense and ultimately satisfying (when I did win) was made completely simple by one choice.

    That is not a "Neat third option" in any respect whatsoever, it's just outright the path of least resistance.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    Just started playing the game a couple nights ago. Pretty intimidating. Tried a Pyromancer but couldn't get comfortable with the playstyle. Does anyone have any advice for weapons to aim for on a strength-based Knight? Or any general advice for a Demon's/Dark Souls virgin?

    16 strength will let you swing pretty much every basic weapon you come across, so you can find one that suits your playstyle. Most of your defence comes from having a 100% physical resist shield, consider removing some armour so that you stay under 50% equip weight for speedier rolling. Endurance is the best stat to raise when you're not aiming for a particular spell or weapon.

    Challenge bosses in human form as there's almost always an NPC phantom you can summon to help you out. When you're already in hollow form and don't have many souls to lose, go explore dangerous areas for awesome loot :P

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I personally loved my Black Knight Sword, which I actually got extremely lucky and it dropped on the very first one I actually killed. Used it from the moment I met the stat requirement almost until the end of the game, when I changed to the Great Axe. Served me well.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    I haven't played dark souls since Skyrim came out, but when I did my first playthrough was with a pyromancer. I botched the build in a hundred different ways because I didn't understand how the game worked yet. I almost never used pyromancy because the animation took too long and it didn't do that much damage.

    So um.... "my friend" wants to know how to break the game with pyromancy, because "my friend" is the type of person who likes playing OP characters.

  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    class was canceled so I cleared out all of anor londo up to the bosses. i can't decide which of the two bonfires is actually closer though. probably the one in the building by a little bit? trying to decide my staging ground for going human and taking a bro to the boss area... I'm sure I'll get invaded almost instantly too.

    any tips for these guys?

    I currently have a bks+5, 3/4 havel gear + stone gloves, bloodshield, ascended +3 pyro glove with fire orb, greater fireball, acid surge and firestorm, havel's ring and the ring from lautrec and am around sl 60. vit 30, end 30, everything else just high enough to wield the bks. not sure if that's good or if there's something more useful for them.

    was gonna grab my crystal shield for the lightning defense.

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    I haven't played dark souls since Skyrim came out, but when I did my first playthrough was with a pyromancer. I botched the build in a hundred different ways because I didn't understand how the game worked yet. I almost never used pyromancy because the animation took too long and it didn't do that much damage.

    So um.... "my friend" wants to know how to break the game with pyromancy, because "my friend" is the type of person who likes playing OP characters.

    The closest you can get to an OP character in Dark Souls:

    Start with the master key gift
    16 str for the Claymore, Zweihander and best shields, 40 endurance for max stamina, 16 attunement for four spell slots. Level stats whenever upgrading your pyro flame gets too expensive
    Find the elite knight armour in the forest, get Havel's ring nearbyish so you can wear it all and stay under 50% weight
    Upgrade your Claymore/Zwei to +10 using the large ember in the depths (shortly after Capra)
    Find the Eagle Shield in upper Blighttown
    Once your flame is +10 another pyromancy vendor will appear in the swamp, who sells additional spells and can upgrade your flame past 15 (best saved for NG+).
    Upgrade your Claymore/Zwei to a lightning one in Anor Londo, acquire Havel's armour.

    You'll still die lots though :P

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
  • RubycatRubycat Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I didn't use Havels, but I was pretty much like that at the end of my game (Lighting Zwei, Elite knight and Eagle shield).. Don't forget to put points into Vit or you end up like me and have to chug up your estus like no bodies business and cast heal miracles constantly.

    yes yes If I could dodge better I wouldn't take so much damage, but I wanted to just spend points wherever to try out spells and what not and my dodging skills are bad.

    Rubycat on
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  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    I haven't played dark souls since Skyrim came out, but when I did my first playthrough was with a pyromancer. I botched the build in a hundred different ways because I didn't understand how the game worked yet. I almost never used pyromancy because the animation took too long and it didn't do that much damage.

    So um.... "my friend" wants to know how to break the game with pyromancy, because "my friend" is the type of person who likes playing OP characters.

    The closest you can get to an OP character in Dark Souls:

    Start with the master key gift
    16 str for the Claymore, Zweihander and best shields, 40 endurance for max stamina, 16 attunement for four spell slots. Level stats whenever upgrading your pyro flame gets too expensive
    Find the elite knight armour in the forest, get Havel's ring nearbyish so you can wear it all and stay under 50% weight
    Upgrade your Claymore/Zwei to +10 using the large ember in the depths (shortly after Capra)
    Find the Eagle Shield in upper Blighttown
    Once your flame is +10 another pyromancy vendor will appear in the swamp, who sells additional spells and can upgrade your flame past 15 (best saved for NG+).
    Upgrade your Claymore/Zwei to a lightning one in Anor Londo, acquire Havel's armour.

    You'll still die lots though :P

    I may do just this. Rolling up a new character in Dark Souls is incredibly fun for me.

  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    is that the part of blighttown you go to through the depths? I've never been to that part. is the eagle shield worth it?

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    The Eagle Shield is amazing. You lose your ability to parry, but gain the ability to take hits like a goddamn tank.

  • NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    you can get the eagle shield without going through the depths (unlike the shadow armor), but it's close to there

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  • DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    you can get the eagle shield without going through the depths (unlike the shadow armor), but it's close to there

    Why wouldn't you be able to get the Shadow Armor?

    You can get all the way up to the Depths from Blighttown. I know because I did it once before I beat the Depths, trying to sequence break a bit, but there's no way to open the Depths/Blighttown gate from the Blighttown side.

  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It's not a "Neat third option", it's just plain better in every imaginable way. I am astounded anyone disputes this, absolutely 100% astounded. I am not sure how useful Pyromancy is in PvP overall (I could never get the MP to work reliably), but I did know fighting anyone with it was a complete pain in the ass. The point I'm making is that it DOES trivialize the game considerably. Anyone who says that Pyromancy doesn't make things like Ornstein and Smough an absolute joke is just kidding themselves. Even though I have finished Dark Souls and am officially "Very good at Video Games" (as my numerous achievements for finishing RPGs on the hardest difficulties attests to), if I go into that fight with a melee centric character it's hard or at least difficult (New Game + on that fight was still pretty stressful!). When I played as a Pyromancer to check it out? I spent all of 3 minutes and carried on wondering what the deal was. A fight that was one of the most intense and ultimately satisfying (when I did win) was made completely simple by one choice.

    That is not a "Neat third option" in any respect whatsoever, it's just outright the path of least resistance.

    people keep saying, repeatedly, that sorcery and faith do the exact same thing and a lot of people don't seem to be listening. my sorc killed the dynamic duo in one try with minimal effort.

    if we're going to keep making this argument, why are we ignoring the one spell tree that actually kills more quickly? pyro isn't even that good in comparison.
    class was canceled so I cleared out all of anor londo up to the bosses. i can't decide which of the two bonfires is actually closer though. probably the one in the building by a little bit? trying to decide my staging ground for going human and taking a bro to the boss area... I'm sure I'll get invaded almost instantly too.

    any tips for these guys?

    I currently have a bks+5, 3/4 havel gear + stone gloves, bloodshield, ascended +3 pyro glove with fire orb, greater fireball, acid surge and firestorm, havel's ring and the ring from lautrec and am around sl 60. vit 30, end 30, everything else just high enough to wield the bks. not sure if that's good or if there's something more useful for them.

    was gonna grab my crystal shield for the lightning defense.

    you're fairly well geared, I would suggest just going in solo for some learning deaths and see if you end up killing them

  • LorkLork Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It's not a "Neat third option", it's just plain better in every imaginable way. I am astounded anyone disputes this, absolutely 100% astounded. I am not sure how useful Pyromancy is in PvP overall (I could never get the MP to work reliably), but I did know fighting anyone with it was a complete pain in the ass. The point I'm making is that it DOES trivialize the game considerably. Anyone who says that Pyromancy doesn't make things like Ornstein and Smough an absolute joke is just kidding themselves. Even though I have finished Dark Souls and am officially "Very good at Video Games" (as my numerous achievements for finishing RPGs on the hardest difficulties attests to), if I go into that fight with a melee centric character it's hard or at least difficult (New Game + on that fight was still pretty stressful!). When I played as a Pyromancer to check it out? I spent all of 3 minutes and carried on wondering what the deal was. A fight that was one of the most intense and ultimately satisfying (when I did win) was made completely simple by one choice.

    That is not a "Neat third option" in any respect whatsoever, it's just outright the path of least resistance.
    You shouldn't be astounded because you're 100% wrong. Had you tried that fight as a sorcerer, you would know that it's even easier. Pyromancy "unbalances" the game in as much as having a powerful ranged attack makes it easier, but both of the other schools get access to even more powerful attacks with even longer range. Sorcery and miracles require more investment and specialization, but give you access to much better spells.
    PvP stuff
    I was going to make some rather dismissive comments about some of the things you said, but I have a much more productive and fun idea. Are you on 360? I have a level 120 sorcerer sitting at the kiln. Care to test your words out in battle? I guarantee you will have a pretty tough time with my character if pyromancy is the best thing you can throw at him.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    All I know is that I can go through the entire game trivially without even dying with Pyromancy (I died 5 times in that playthrough, twice to the stupid narrow ledges above the painted world in Anor Londo - silly me). On the other hand, despite knowing the game very well, if I don't whore Pyromancy I will definitely have a hard time with some bosses or areas. Pretty much, you have to be living in denial if you disagree pyromancy is broken.

    Noting that I have never actually tried Sorcery or Miracles - so I don't make comments about how powerful they are. If they are better than that does not prove Pyromancy isn't broken: It just means that spells are utterly broken and my advice still stands, albeit with a significant modification. Don't use magic if you want to have the authentic Dark Souls experience, as opposed to being able to trivially rofflestomp many of the games more significant challenges. I just think Pyromancy is easier because it doesn't raise your soul level and you can invest in stats for good weapons/armor as well.

    Aegeri on
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  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    If you spec for melee, pyromancy makes you stronger without raising the soul cost for your levels in your combat stats in the way a hybrid build would. A character built for magic is ridiculously powerful though, Soul Mass and Soul Spear annihilate bosses in short order.

    You can go through the game without dying with Pyromancy because you know the game. A first time player who does the same will still have an awful time of it, because they don't know where the good loot is, don't know which enemies you can just ignore, can't find all the spells. Pyromancy is no more broken than magic, faith or chancing across a Black Knight weapon early on (you can three-hit Capra with a BKS +4).

    E: The takeaway from my post is don't spec dex, lol

    Shen on
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  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    but they're not broken, you still have to learn effective ranges, when to dodge and block and when varying it up with some melee is worth it - the same learning processes still occur, and apply. it's just a playstyle you don't prefer, condemning half the game's offensive options because of a faulty assumption you're blanketing all spells with isn't the way to go.
    You can go through the game without dying with Pyromancy because you know the game. A first time player who does the same will still have an awful time of it, because they don't know where the good loot is, don't know which enemies you can just ignore, can't find all the spells. Pyromancy is no more broken than magic, faith or chancing across a Black Knight weapon early on (you can three-hit Capra with a BKS +4). the way to go.

    was literally in the middle of posting this

    Torgairon on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    That isn't true Shen: If I go through as a melee centric character, without whoring Pyromancy (or actually, probably without whoring magic it would be fairer to say) I still do actually die. Having to actually fight things instead of "lol one shot" most enemies (or three shotting bosses) is actually fairly difficult. The effect is purely because Pyromancy (or it would seem magic in general) makes the game signficiantly easier.

    Had I played Pyromancy first I wouldn't have had half the trouble with Dark Souls that I did the first time easily.

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  • NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    you can one shot most enemies with melee attacks if you know what you're doing, it's not all that much more difficult than just using pyromancy

    just because pyromancy is really easy doesn't mean it breaks the game

    @nealcm @faynor
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  • LorkLork Registered User regular
    Yep, my first character was a pyromancer and I had plenty of trouble with the game. Now that I know the game inside and out, I can pretty much tear it apart with any build. Right now I'm going through with an STR/Faith based character to help a friend through the game in coop. I just got my hands on a BKGA and upgraded it to +5... The game won't even know what hit it.

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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Lork wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It's not a "Neat third option", it's just plain better in every imaginable way. I am astounded anyone disputes this, absolutely 100% astounded. I am not sure how useful Pyromancy is in PvP overall (I could never get the MP to work reliably), but I did know fighting anyone with it was a complete pain in the ass. The point I'm making is that it DOES trivialize the game considerably. Anyone who says that Pyromancy doesn't make things like Ornstein and Smough an absolute joke is just kidding themselves. Even though I have finished Dark Souls and am officially "Very good at Video Games" (as my numerous achievements for finishing RPGs on the hardest difficulties attests to), if I go into that fight with a melee centric character it's hard or at least difficult (New Game + on that fight was still pretty stressful!). When I played as a Pyromancer to check it out? I spent all of 3 minutes and carried on wondering what the deal was. A fight that was one of the most intense and ultimately satisfying (when I did win) was made completely simple by one choice.

    That is not a "Neat third option" in any respect whatsoever, it's just outright the path of least resistance.
    You shouldn't be astounded because you're 100% wrong. Had you tried that fight as a sorcerer, you would know that it's even easier. Pyromancy "unbalances" the game in as much as having a powerful ranged attack makes it easier, but both of the other schools get access to even more powerful attacks with even longer range. Sorcery and miracles require more investment and specialization, but give you access to much better spells.
    PvP stuff
    I was going to make some rather dismissive comments about some of the things you said, but I have a much more productive and fun idea. Are you on 360? I have a level 120 sorcerer sitting at the kiln. Care to test your words out in battle? I guarantee you will have a pretty tough time with my character if pyromancy is the best thing you can throw at him.

    No, ew, who plays anything on 360 anymore.

    Also, I still get the sneaking suspicion people think pyromancy only has fireball and combustion or something. You know every single awesome weapon in the game? Power within makes it even better.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I disagree entirely, but I'll leave it there. I wish in many ways I had played Pyromancer first so I could say "Well the game was pretty easy", because that's exactly my experience with what Pyromancy (or I guess more accurately, magic) does compared to using melee. It's pretty obvious there is a path of least resistance using magic and then there is doing it the standard sword/shield way.

    I only wish that I had played Demon Souls for more of a logical comparison for how magic was treated in that game.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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