I once had someone looking over my shoulder as I updated my monthly Debt spreadsheet. At first she couldn't make heads or tails of it, but I explained my system to her, then made a version that suited her needs.
Bitch is going to get out of debt faster than I am partially because of that spreadsheet! I'm both elated and a tad jealous.
At the very least, I recommend an ongoing a line graph, especially if you're trying to pay down your debt but are still using your credit cards. It's a nice little motivator to see that line fall down, and you want to kick yourself in the pants when that line goes up.
For example, say you're diagnosed with cancer, and you need chemotherapy.
In a perfect world, your healthcare provider would pay the cost for the tests and therapy.
However, if the insurance company can prove that your cancer was developing before you were covered by them, they can argue that they shouldn't have to pay for your expenses, since it's entirely possible you knew about your condition, and you were trying to "steal" money from them to treat the condition. They can also take other, more draconian measures, such as pursuing litigation against the hospital to get a little bit of cash on the side. If they do that, the hospital can refuse to treat you, since it would be "ethically dubious" for them to treat you while your insurance company is trying to sue them. And the insurance company won't pay for it either, because they're suing the hospital on your behalf. So you pretty much get shafted while the lawyers argue over who's responsible for your treatment. Or lack thereof.
Romanian My Escutcheon on
[IMG][/img]
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
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Tossrocktoo weird to livetoo rare to dieRegistered Userregular
okay so can someone break down how insurance in the US works in the simplest terms possible
because here in Australia the system is totally different (and I only really know it now because my student cover expires in a month so I'm doing research)... like, most stuff is covered under Medicare (if you are a resident and regardless of whether or not you are employed) and then you get to pick and choose what extras you want via private health insurance (like ambulance cover, extras in-hospital, dental, optical etc)
if you have a job, work will cover part of the cost of private healthcare, but even if you're not working you can still get private cover if you want it
very little of the private stuff is covered 100% but they will usually end up covering 50% to 75% depending on your plan... it's all very predictable, even before you actually go in and do what needs doing
Unless you are like, poverty poor, or beyond the age of retirement the only insurance option is a private insurance company. (Edit: Forgot joining the military! Or getting put in prison.)This is basically prohibitively expensive unless you get it through your job. Employers are incentivized to offer health insurance through tax credits. If you leave your job you can extend your insurance coverage through a program called COBRA but that is also prohibitively expensive. So basically if you are unemployed, you are fucked.
Hospitals are legally required to treat you if you walk into the emergency room all dripping blood or whatever, but if you don't have some form of insurance (aka a job) you're basically saddled with crippling debt for life. Medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcies in America, or so I've heard.
these threads always make me so grateful i'm not american
right?
I'm not even Australian but I'm so glad to know Medicare is available to people here
being that I actually work for the health department now, it's awesome to see people come in and get the help they need because the essential stuff is at least covered
CreditKarma.com is a legit site for getting your score, but not a complete report. I've been using it for years without any detriment to my accounts.
It has some neat features like a simulator to see what actions you can take to improve or harm your score.
For example, before when I didn't have as much debt on my cards, paying them all off would have actually lowered my score a few points versus keeping a small running balance.
good to know, I get nervous about giving out my information
They're able to provide it free because while giving you the score and analysis tools, they're also shilling for cards that can 'help' you, which they may or may not be able to do. Some offer 0% on balance transfers, others are cards with bonus points or a reward system for stuff people use or buy regularly (groceries, gas, etc.)
For example, my Amazon Rewards card gets me points for every dollar I spend at Amazon, that I can save and then apply toward purchases. My Amex Blue card does the same.
With such cards, a smart move is to put recurring bills (car insurance, phone bill, electricity bill, etc) on them and just make sure you pay it off by the end of the month. Your bills get paid, and you earn points on your card while doing so.
CreditKarma.com is a legit site for getting your score, but not a complete report. I've been using it for years without any detriment to my accounts.
It has some neat features like a simulator to see what actions you can take to improve or harm your score.
For example, before when I didn't have as much debt on my cards, paying them all off would have actually lowered my score a few points versus keeping a small running balance.
good to know, I get nervous about giving out my information
They're able to provide it free because while giving you the score and analysis tools, they're also shilling for cards that can 'help' you, which they may or may not be able to do. Some offer 0% on balance transfers, others are cards with bonus points or a reward system for stuff people use or buy regularly (groceries, gas, etc.)
For example, my Amazon Rewards card gets me points for every dollar I spend at Amazon, that I can save and then apply toward purchases. My Amex Blue card does the same.
With such cards, a smart move is to put recurring bills (car insurance, phone bill, electricity bill, etc) on them and just make sure you pay it off by the end of the month. Your bills get paid, and you earn points on your card while doing so.
thanks. I have one credit card that I don't ever carry a balance on - I mostly put incidentals on it and pay it off every month.
however as previously mentioned I have hideous amounts of student loan debt! apparently my credit score is 734.
See like, those numbers are good and all... but they don't actually tell you what you're getting.
Private health cover in Australia can cost anywhere from $20 a month to $200 a month... it just depends on what kind of cover you want (above and beyond what is covered via Medicare).
okay so can someone break down how insurance in the US works in the simplest terms possible
because here in Australia the system is totally different (and I only really know it now because my student cover expires in a month so I'm doing research)... like, most stuff is covered under Medicare (if you are a resident and regardless of whether or not you are employed) and then you get to pick and choose what extras you want via private health insurance (like ambulance cover, extras in-hospital, dental, optical etc)
if you have a job, work will cover part of the cost of private healthcare, but even if you're not working you can still get private cover if you want it
very little of the private stuff is covered 100% but they will usually end up covering 50% to 75% depending on your plan... it's all very predictable, even before you actually go in and do what needs doing
It varies from state to state, first off, so here's what I know about Texas, though my knowledge is far from complete.
Most people get their insurance through a group plan through their employer. Usually you have a couple of options (higher deductibles, added dental or vision, adding your spouse and children). If you're extremely poor or pregnant, you can get on a state-funded plan.
As to what the insurance company will pay: after you reach your deductible, the company will pay a certain percentage of your bill depending on what the procedure is. The percentages are different depending on the company and the plan you picked. Often times there are yearly or lifetime maximums that they'll pay, so anything over that maximum comes out of your pocket.
If you don't have insurance because your employer doesn't offer it (an in my case) or you're unemployed or you just choose for some reason not to get it through your employer? You can buy private, which is usually quite costly. Or you can just go without and pray that you don't get into a car wreck because everything's coming out of your pocket. An Emergency Room can't turn your away in an emergency situation (read: life threatening), but they are only obligated to stabilize you, then refer you to someone who can heal you completely. They'll send you a bill, and you'll pay that forever until you're dead.
And THEN there's HSA (health savings accounts), which are fairly new and a tad more complicated, but better for many people in the long run.
don't you get free health care for life through the VA?
Not really, no. It's really weird. I can get an eye exam and free pair glasses once a year, but there's always something like a two month backlog. I can go to their ER, since I live in the same city as the regional hospital, but the minimum wait is roughly 8 hours, and they want to drug test you all the time because of how many homeless Vietnam/Gulf era vets use the place as a home. Prescription filling takes, no joking, another 4-8 hours. There is no dental. There is no minor/urgent care. Either you are dying or fuck off.
okay so can someone break down how insurance in the US works in the simplest terms possible
because here in Australia the system is totally different (and I only really know it now because my student cover expires in a month so I'm doing research)... like, most stuff is covered under Medicare (if you are a resident and regardless of whether or not you are employed) and then you get to pick and choose what extras you want via private health insurance (like ambulance cover, extras in-hospital, dental, optical etc)
if you have a job, work will cover part of the cost of private healthcare, but even if you're not working you can still get private cover if you want it
very little of the private stuff is covered 100% but they will usually end up covering 50% to 75% depending on your plan... it's all very predictable, even before you actually go in and do what needs doing
Unless you are like, poverty poor, or beyond the age of retirement the only insurance option is a private insurance company. This is basically prohibitively expensive unless you get it through your job. Employers are incentivized to offer health insurance through tax credits. If you leave your job you can extend your insurance coverage through a program called COBRA but that is also prohibitively expensive. So basically if you are unemployed, you are fucked.
Hospitals are legally required to treat you if you walk into the emergency room all dripping blood or whatever, but if you don't have some form of insurance (aka a job) you're basically saddled with crippling debt for life. Medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcies in America, or so I've heard.
Viv, this is a much better explanation than RMED's "explanation". It gets even more complicated than that though because some plans may require certain procedures be certified in advance as medically necessary (this is typically done for procedures that are statistically overutilized when a less expensive procedure may be the best option) for it to be covered. And then there's the whole issue of pre-existing conditions. These are just a couple of examples, but it can easily get more complicated.
Well, what an adventure.... For those who don't remember, I was practically tweeting my operation. The final bill is in. For those who want to know. I hid it under the spoiler.
$19,842.78
Now, here comes the fun part. Looking at my insurance claims, I have found, they are willing to cover...
$13.18
So, let's talk about shitty insurance
Welcome to the wonderful world of the United States Healthcare system! It can be frankly amazing the amount of money they can pile onto a hospital bill and due to the spiderweb of agencies in a lot of hospitals they can 'lose' bills and expenses incredibly easy. A couple years ago I was in the hospital for two days, no surgery or anything, just emergency room crap and enough radiation to light me up like a Christmas Tree and I got the joy of receiving a literal stack of assorted bills, including one for 13.25 for a single bottle of Ibuprofen. Fast forward a couple years and a bill scuttle to my door from a doctor I've never heard of, turns out he was the doctor on the emergency floor that night and they'd lost his chunk of the billing when they re-organized the account management system and only found it two years later.
I even managed to get a bill from beyond the grave once, my childhood doctor died when I was about 13 (great old guy, but about 90 years old) and it was assumed all bills and such got sorted out. Time rolls by, his office is first a car dealership and eventually a parking lot for the main hospital and out of the blue sails an absolutely colossal bill from my old doctor. Turns out a collection agency decided to root around his old billing info and tried to pin some already cleared bills on me, needless to say I was less than pleased.
There is always hope though, insurance companies can be amazingly strange and flaky and I've had bills covered by insurance after some careful explanation from a doctor or other professional. And if all fails most Hospitals will bend over backwards to when it comes to bills, because if they didn't my folks wouldn't be paying off their half a million dollar hospital bill for the next 8000 years.
If you don't have insurance and you get diagnosed with something, once you DO finally get insurance, the insurance company doesn't have to pay for treatments of said condition for a period of time (often two years). It comes out of your pocket until your pre-existing condition wait time is over.
Unless that's been changed in reform. It's hard to keep up.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
I'm actually still legally married because my ex thinks that I can just bill the VA like a pri
Well, what an adventure.... For those who don't remember, I was practically tweeting my operation. The final bill is in. For those who want to know. I hid it under the spoiler.
$19,842.78
Now, here comes the fun part. Looking at my insurance claims, I have found, they are willing to cover...
$13.18
So, let's talk about shitty insurance
Welcome to the wonderful world of the United States Healthcare system! It can be frankly amazing the amount of money they can pile onto a hospital bill and due to the spiderweb of agencies in a lot of hospitals they can 'lose' bills and expenses incredibly easy. A couple years ago I was in the hospital for two days, no surgery or anything, just emergency room crap and enough radiation to light me up like a Christmas Tree and I got the joy of receiving a literal stack of assorted bills, including one for 13.25 for a single bottle of Ibuprofen. Fast forward a couple years and a bill scuttle to my door from a doctor I've never heard of, turns out he was the doctor on the emergency floor that night and they'd lost his chunk of the billing when they re-organized the account management system and only found it two years later.
I even managed to get a bill from beyond the grave once, my childhood doctor died when I was about 13 (great old guy, but about 90 years old) and it was assumed all bills and such got sorted out. Time rolls by, his office is first a car dealership and eventually a parking lot for the main hospital and out of the blue sails an absolutely colossal bill from my old doctor. Turns out a collection agency decided to root around his old billing info and tried to pin some already cleared bills on me, needless to say I was less than pleased.
There is always hope though, insurance companies can be amazingly strange and flaky and I've had bills covered by insurance after some careful explanation from a doctor or other professional. And if all fails most Hospitals will bend over backwards to when it comes to bills, because if they didn't my folks wouldn't be paying off their half a million dollar hospital bill for the next 8000 years.
That collections firms can buy old data and ding your credit reports for bills that you've already paid, and put the burden of proof on you, is absolute bullshit.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited February 2012
Also those prices in the image I posted a little while back, same company, a few years ago, the prices were tripled.
Weaver on
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Very few places in Australia cover private health insurance through work.
I thought you said you got cover through work? Unless you're an outlier.
Nope.
I think I pay around 450 annually. And it's a pretty povo plan. It covers dental, sporting injuries and general accidents rather than cancer and stuff.
My grandfather got a heart transplant and lived for 16 years with his heart (he was told he'd live probably 8 years max, but he was made of tough tough stuff and he had the most excellent doctors watching over him all those years).
It's great that he lived a long time, but the drugs and ongoing complications with an organ transplant meant that when he died, his outstanding bills totaled a huge number. I was never told the actual amount, but I know the word "millions" has been thrown around.
WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Re: VA healthcare
My dad worked with nuclear artillery shells for four years in West Germany, right up until the USSR collapsed and Germany unified.
For years now he's been developing skin cancer on his face and having the spots removed at the Houston VA hospital. He filed to have the skin cancer classified as service connected because of the radiation exposure.
The Houston VA hospital will not longer treat him for skin cancer and instead sends him to a horribly equipped outlying clinic.
Yeah, student loan debt tends to be considered one of the 'good' kinds of debt. Car payments can be, too.
The biggest ding against my score right now is over-utilization, or, carrying rather high balances on the cards I have.
Some of the numbers on CreditKarma's 'Credit Report Card' feature are misleading. For example, I have a 'D' in one category because I don't have enough various lines of credit open and active. To get an 'A' you have to have close to 20 lines of different credit (credit cards, loans, mortgages, etc) open and active, which is nuts.
Lady SH's dad has a score somewhere in the 800 range because they tended to live well below their means and his wife handled all the finances and made sure everything was paid down consistently and regularly for over 30 years. They walked into a car dealership once and the salesman said he had never seen such a high score in his entire career.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The real trick with insurance is to never let it lapse.
Halkun let it lapse and pretty badly it seems. This situation sounds like it was avoidable if he had done what he was supposed to.
:whistle:
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
however as previously mentioned I have hideous amounts of student loan debt! apparently my credit score is 734.
I'm pretty sure student loan debt isn't too bad looking as long as you're paying on time.
I'm not paying yet, still in school and still accruing debt. hooraaaay
Oh, I remember the days. I'm watching my sister go through it now; she's attending the same university I did. I was very lucky to have finished my studies before the prices at the University absolutely sky rocketed. I feel bad for you people still in school or who have yet to begin. It's a different battleground than it was even 5 years ago.
Posts
Bitch is going to get out of debt faster than I am partially because of that spreadsheet! I'm both elated and a tad jealous.
At the very least, I recommend an ongoing a line graph, especially if you're trying to pay down your debt but are still using your credit cards. It's a nice little motivator to see that line fall down, and you want to kick yourself in the pants when that line goes up.
In a perfect world, your healthcare provider would pay the cost for the tests and therapy.
However, if the insurance company can prove that your cancer was developing before you were covered by them, they can argue that they shouldn't have to pay for your expenses, since it's entirely possible you knew about your condition, and you were trying to "steal" money from them to treat the condition. They can also take other, more draconian measures, such as pursuing litigation against the hospital to get a little bit of cash on the side. If they do that, the hospital can refuse to treat you, since it would be "ethically dubious" for them to treat you while your insurance company is trying to sue them. And the insurance company won't pay for it either, because they're suing the hospital on your behalf. So you pretty much get shafted while the lawyers argue over who's responsible for your treatment. Or lack thereof.
Unless you are like, poverty poor, or beyond the age of retirement the only insurance option is a private insurance company. (Edit: Forgot joining the military! Or getting put in prison.)This is basically prohibitively expensive unless you get it through your job. Employers are incentivized to offer health insurance through tax credits. If you leave your job you can extend your insurance coverage through a program called COBRA but that is also prohibitively expensive. So basically if you are unemployed, you are fucked.
Hospitals are legally required to treat you if you walk into the emergency room all dripping blood or whatever, but if you don't have some form of insurance (aka a job) you're basically saddled with crippling debt for life. Medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcies in America, or so I've heard.
You have all my sympathy
right?
I'm not even Australian but I'm so glad to know Medicare is available to people here
being that I actually work for the health department now, it's awesome to see people come in and get the help they need because the essential stuff is at least covered
Satans..... hints.....
Corresponding to those options in the above image.
don't you get free health care for life through the VA?
They're able to provide it free because while giving you the score and analysis tools, they're also shilling for cards that can 'help' you, which they may or may not be able to do. Some offer 0% on balance transfers, others are cards with bonus points or a reward system for stuff people use or buy regularly (groceries, gas, etc.)
For example, my Amazon Rewards card gets me points for every dollar I spend at Amazon, that I can save and then apply toward purchases. My Amex Blue card does the same.
With such cards, a smart move is to put recurring bills (car insurance, phone bill, electricity bill, etc) on them and just make sure you pay it off by the end of the month. Your bills get paid, and you earn points on your card while doing so.
Keep in mind that the VA is government financed, and they're always doing whatever they can to cut costs.
thanks. I have one credit card that I don't ever carry a balance on - I mostly put incidentals on it and pay it off every month.
however as previously mentioned I have hideous amounts of student loan debt! apparently my credit score is 734.
Things are improving, slowly at least.
Our healthcare reform bill got neutered thanks to a couple of assholes in the government, but it's a damn sight better than what we have now.
See like, those numbers are good and all... but they don't actually tell you what you're getting.
Private health cover in Australia can cost anywhere from $20 a month to $200 a month... it just depends on what kind of cover you want (above and beyond what is covered via Medicare).
For those curious:
http://www.medibank.com.au/healthcover/insurance/extras-range/basic-extras-70.aspx
You can scroll down to see what is covered at every level of cover, and the price pops up at the top.
I thought you said you got cover through work? Unless you're an outlier.
A couple?
It varies from state to state, first off, so here's what I know about Texas, though my knowledge is far from complete.
Most people get their insurance through a group plan through their employer. Usually you have a couple of options (higher deductibles, added dental or vision, adding your spouse and children). If you're extremely poor or pregnant, you can get on a state-funded plan.
As to what the insurance company will pay: after you reach your deductible, the company will pay a certain percentage of your bill depending on what the procedure is. The percentages are different depending on the company and the plan you picked. Often times there are yearly or lifetime maximums that they'll pay, so anything over that maximum comes out of your pocket.
If you don't have insurance because your employer doesn't offer it (an in my case) or you're unemployed or you just choose for some reason not to get it through your employer? You can buy private, which is usually quite costly. Or you can just go without and pray that you don't get into a car wreck because everything's coming out of your pocket. An Emergency Room can't turn your away in an emergency situation (read: life threatening), but they are only obligated to stabilize you, then refer you to someone who can heal you completely. They'll send you a bill, and you'll pay that forever until you're dead.
And THEN there's HSA (health savings accounts), which are fairly new and a tad more complicated, but better for many people in the long run.
Short answer: I dunno lol
Not really, no. It's really weird. I can get an eye exam and free pair glasses once a year, but there's always something like a two month backlog. I can go to their ER, since I live in the same city as the regional hospital, but the minimum wait is roughly 8 hours, and they want to drug test you all the time because of how many homeless Vietnam/Gulf era vets use the place as a home. Prescription filling takes, no joking, another 4-8 hours. There is no dental. There is no minor/urgent care. Either you are dying or fuck off.
Okay, several assholes, but a couple were much larger than the rest of the bunch.
I'm pretty sure student loan debt isn't too bad looking as long as you're paying on time.
That makes me think of this
but the snakes are like this
That is badass insurance coverage.
Viv, this is a much better explanation than RMED's "explanation". It gets even more complicated than that though because some plans may require certain procedures be certified in advance as medically necessary (this is typically done for procedures that are statistically overutilized when a less expensive procedure may be the best option) for it to be covered. And then there's the whole issue of pre-existing conditions. These are just a couple of examples, but it can easily get more complicated.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the United States Healthcare system! It can be frankly amazing the amount of money they can pile onto a hospital bill and due to the spiderweb of agencies in a lot of hospitals they can 'lose' bills and expenses incredibly easy. A couple years ago I was in the hospital for two days, no surgery or anything, just emergency room crap and enough radiation to light me up like a Christmas Tree and I got the joy of receiving a literal stack of assorted bills, including one for 13.25 for a single bottle of Ibuprofen. Fast forward a couple years and a bill scuttle to my door from a doctor I've never heard of, turns out he was the doctor on the emergency floor that night and they'd lost his chunk of the billing when they re-organized the account management system and only found it two years later.
I even managed to get a bill from beyond the grave once, my childhood doctor died when I was about 13 (great old guy, but about 90 years old) and it was assumed all bills and such got sorted out. Time rolls by, his office is first a car dealership and eventually a parking lot for the main hospital and out of the blue sails an absolutely colossal bill from my old doctor. Turns out a collection agency decided to root around his old billing info and tried to pin some already cleared bills on me, needless to say I was less than pleased.
There is always hope though, insurance companies can be amazingly strange and flaky and I've had bills covered by insurance after some careful explanation from a doctor or other professional. And if all fails most Hospitals will bend over backwards to when it comes to bills, because if they didn't my folks wouldn't be paying off their half a million dollar hospital bill for the next 8000 years.
I'm not paying yet, still in school and still accruing debt. hooraaaay
If you don't have insurance and you get diagnosed with something, once you DO finally get insurance, the insurance company doesn't have to pay for treatments of said condition for a period of time (often two years). It comes out of your pocket until your pre-existing condition wait time is over.
Unless that's been changed in reform. It's hard to keep up.
That collections firms can buy old data and ding your credit reports for bills that you've already paid, and put the burden of proof on you, is absolute bullshit.
Nope.
I think I pay around 450 annually. And it's a pretty povo plan. It covers dental, sporting injuries and general accidents rather than cancer and stuff.
Satans..... hints.....
Satans..... hints.....
there just seems to be this whole political movement dedicated to making sure that the government never tries to help people!
like our politicians are assholes too but at least they aren't opposed to the very concept of government on an ideological level
It's great that he lived a long time, but the drugs and ongoing complications with an organ transplant meant that when he died, his outstanding bills totaled a huge number. I was never told the actual amount, but I know the word "millions" has been thrown around.
I have $0 but it is all mine
for now
My dad worked with nuclear artillery shells for four years in West Germany, right up until the USSR collapsed and Germany unified.
For years now he's been developing skin cancer on his face and having the spots removed at the Houston VA hospital. He filed to have the skin cancer classified as service connected because of the radiation exposure.
The Houston VA hospital will not longer treat him for skin cancer and instead sends him to a horribly equipped outlying clinic.
The biggest ding against my score right now is over-utilization, or, carrying rather high balances on the cards I have.
Some of the numbers on CreditKarma's 'Credit Report Card' feature are misleading. For example, I have a 'D' in one category because I don't have enough various lines of credit open and active. To get an 'A' you have to have close to 20 lines of different credit (credit cards, loans, mortgages, etc) open and active, which is nuts.
Lady SH's dad has a score somewhere in the 800 range because they tended to live well below their means and his wife handled all the finances and made sure everything was paid down consistently and regularly for over 30 years. They walked into a car dealership once and the salesman said he had never seen such a high score in his entire career.
Halkun let it lapse and pretty badly it seems. This situation sounds like it was avoidable if he had done what he was supposed to.
:whistle:
Oh, I remember the days. I'm watching my sister go through it now; she's attending the same university I did. I was very lucky to have finished my studies before the prices at the University absolutely sky rocketed. I feel bad for you people still in school or who have yet to begin. It's a different battleground than it was even 5 years ago.