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Season 4, Ep. 2 - So You Want To Be a Developer (Part 2)

edited February 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
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  • jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    I would think a lot more math would be needed. I would think you'd need a very firm foundation of linear algebra, a bit of calculus and just enough numerical analysis to know why floating point math likes to fuck your life up.

  • IvarIvar Oslo, NorwayRegistered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    I would think a lot more math would be needed. I would think you'd need a very firm foundation of linear algebra, a bit of calculus and just enough numerical analysis to know why floating point math likes to fuck your life up.

    How much math you need depends on what kind of software you'll be working on. Linear algebra is useful in anything to do with graphics, both 2D and 3D.
    This episode (and the previous one) seems like good advice both for game programming specifically and programming in general.

  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    I remember one time I had to use logarithms to solve a weird UI thing. I wanted to burst into the nearest high school math class and just yell "I USED IT! I DIDN'T THINK I'D EVER USE IT BUT I JUST USED IT!"

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    I remember one time I had to use logarithms to solve a weird UI thing. I wanted to burst into the nearest high school math class and just yell "I USED IT! I DIDN'T THINK I'D EVER USE IT BUT I JUST USED IT!"

    I would've done the same goddamn thing. I hate math.

  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    That's impressive. I don't think I've even multiplied while programming since I left college.

  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    I'm taking Abstract Algebra right now and I think it's tied with Linear Algebra and Discrete for Most Useful Math For Programming. Calculus is almost useless. Its too bad its so far into math that most people never take it, you don't really need anything to start it, as most other math is just used as an example of something your talking about.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Calculus is extremely useful...if you're doing physics. Basically all game physics is done as extremely high level calculus with a ton of extra work done to minimize the issues presented by floating point numbers and rounding/inaccuracy and the fact you're dealing with 16 or 32 millisecond time slices rather than infinitely small ones.

    Opty on
  • jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Which in a nutshell is why that dragon skeleton just launched itself into orbit.

    jackal on
  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    I'm taking Abstract Algebra right now and I think it's tied with Linear Algebra and Discrete for Most Useful Math For Programming. Calculus is almost useless. Its too bad its so far into math that most people never take it, you don't really need anything to start it, as most other math is just used as an example of something your talking about.

    Abstract algebra gave me some good perspective on everything else I was learning. I do much better with a subject once I have some framework to help me relate it all together. Seeing integers, rational numbers, etc in terms of groups/rings/fields really helped in that regard.

    I wish I could say I retained some of it, but it's all pretty much gone out the window along with everything that isn't probability or discrete math related.

  • Mr JoJoMr JoJo The Friendly Big Daddy Registered User new member
    This is kinda off-topic but if anyone could help me then it would be greatly appreciated. A few months back whilst EC was still on the Escapist I was a big fan of theirs, however recently I've been out of the loop. Now I'm back watching them again, but I can't find any episodes where the names of those who donated towards the Alison Arm fund are in the credits as was promised during the donation drive, has that happened yet? I'd dearly like to see it ;-)

  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    I'm taking Abstract Algebra right now and I think it's tied with Linear Algebra and Discrete for Most Useful Math For Programming. Calculus is almost useless. Its too bad its so far into math that most people never take it, you don't really need anything to start it, as most other math is just used as an example of something your talking about.

    You know, I started reading up on abstract algebra recently, and I remember thinking "holy shit, this is like... directly applicable to the shit I've been doing lately."

    I've always loved math, but it hasn't always loved me back. I do kinda want to just start my own study curriculum; brush up on my trig and algebra, take another swing at what I took in college, like linear algebra, calc/DE, and automata, and then carry it through to shit I haven't studied before. I've been kinda looking for some kind of general tree of prerequisites to know where to start and where to continue, but haven't found anything great yet.

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    I have used every portion of discrete math in my programming career. I have used nothing else beyond basic algebra. I still feel I was sold a bill of goods in high school.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Mr JoJo wrote: »
    This is kinda off-topic but if anyone could help me then it would be greatly appreciated. A few months back whilst EC was still on the Escapist I was a big fan of theirs, however recently I've been out of the loop. Now I'm back watching them again, but I can't find any episodes where the names of those who donated towards the Alison Arm fund are in the credits as was promised during the donation drive, has that happened yet? I'd dearly like to see it ;-)
    You could poke around on their forums and see if it's happened yet or not.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    I had that exact computer case at 0:30

    this is a discord of mostly PA people interested in fighting games: https://discord.gg/DZWa97d5rz

    we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
  • Mr JoJoMr JoJo The Friendly Big Daddy Registered User new member
    Opty wrote: »
    Mr JoJo wrote: »
    This is kinda off-topic but if anyone could help me then it would be greatly appreciated. A few months back whilst EC was still on the Escapist I was a big fan of theirs, however recently I've been out of the loop. Now I'm back watching them again, but I can't find any episodes where the names of those who donated towards the Alison Arm fund are in the credits as was promised during the donation drive, has that happened yet? I'd dearly like to see it ;-)
    You could poke around on their forums and see if it's happened yet or not.

    Thanks for the link, I'll ask there :-)

  • SarahAndrea RoyceSarahAndrea Royce Registered User new member
    As I am developer myself I'm not entirely happy with this. I think what was described was only the part of a coder. But my experiences stem from nearly always having development and design in one hand, and I really hated my job when it was once reduced to only the former.

    You can say there are two very different mindsets at work, but to be really excellent, you should be able to switch between them. The coding part, with its systemic approach and problem solving focus was described well, but to design a product, framework or distributed sytems you have to focus more on the connections than on the parts. In my experience the best developers came top down... they started out as users, thought how to make things better and got into developing via a route via Webtechnologies and found themself constantly getting deeper.

    On the other hand I experienced people with the skillsets that were described here very good on the deep levels far from user interaction. This is where the mathematics come into play. Those are the skillsets that a IT-college will give you. But usually you don't need those deep level things, because you can built atop of the work of their products because you don't have to reinvent databases, 3D frameworks, pathfinding routines from scratch every project, whereas the parts that make the product need more of the other type.

    I often have the impression that in the OpenSource community the "coder"-type is dominant, so the focus lies more on finding solutions to one certain problems but when thats done and in any way usable its called a success, leaving actual users with hard to use interfaces. It got better the last years, but even in such common products like Eclipse I kept the impression.

    The same dichotomy is found in the part about social competence, which interestingly corelates strong with Simon Baron Cohens approach to EQ (emahtical quotient) vs SQ (Systemizing quotient). A high EQ makes you a better designer and architect, a high SQ makes you excellent where it comes to coding.

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