News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.
The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.
The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.
I sure hope ABC News obtained that report from Zimmerman's lawyer, otherwise his doctor has a lot of explaining to do. It is consistent with his having a physical confrontation with Martin where he was hit in the face. Although I suppose it's possible, without any evidence suggesting such I doubt Zimmerman deliberately injured himself to make his story better (though I do wonder about the back injury).
Yar, if you read your own link, the Justice Department has been investigating the whole case, including the behavior of the Sanford police, not simply 'should we charge Zimmerman with a hate crime'. (And they absolutely SHOULD investigate Sanford's cops, given the previous cover-up when a cop's kid attacked a homeless man while shouting racial slurs.)
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Even if he ever smoked pot or posted rap lyrics on Twitter? Because I hear that makes a guy a total thug who deserves to get shot.
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying "having only Skittles on him made Martin a totally upstanding citizen", nor that he was an "angel". Either strawmanning bullshit is okay, or it's not.
Even if he ever smoked pot or posted rap lyrics on Twitter? Because I hear that makes a guy a total thug who deserves to get shot.
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying "having only Skittles on him made Martin a totally upstanding citizen", nor that he was an "angel". Either strawmanning bullshit is okay, or it's not.
When did I say anyone claimed that either?
Over sensitive much?
Sorry, are you just bored now, or what?
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NBC News reviewed the autopsy report of Martin. The report seems to support Zimmerman's story (the one his father and brother told the media).
Florida teenager Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from “intermediate range,” according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News.
The official report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also found that the 17-year-old Martin had one other fresh injury – a small abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size – on his left ring finger below the knuckle.
To me this supports that Zimmerman was the one calling for help. I think a lot of people believe that it is Martin calling for help because the cries end immediately after the gun shot. However without wounds on Martin it is difficult to put Zimmerman as the aggressor in the fight.
I am really starting to doubt that the prosecution has any secret evidence that will give them a chance of a murder conviction.
Of course the question is whether we dismiss the reliability of the evidence, dismiss the conclusions it suggests, or claim it doesn't matter anyway because Zimmerman is guilty regardless because skittles.
And yeah, color me skeptical that the prosecutor had a good faith belief that a murder conviction was ever possible.. Even manslaughter may seem like a stretch now.
To me this supports that Zimmerman was the one calling for help. I think a lot of people believe that it is Martin calling for help because the cries end immediately after the gun shot. However without wounds on Martin it is difficult to put Zimmerman as the aggressor in the fight.
I never understood the logic behind the bolded part. It doesn't make sense for either to keep yelling after the gunshot.
If Martin is yelling, the yells stop after the gunshot because he's been shot and can't yell.
If Zimmerman is yelling, the yells stop after the gunshot because he shot Martin and no longer needs to yell for help, because a shot Martin is no longer a danger to him.
To me this supports that Zimmerman was the one calling for help. I think a lot of people believe that it is Martin calling for help because the cries end immediately after the gun shot. However without wounds on Martin it is difficult to put Zimmerman as the aggressor in the fight.
I never understood the logic behind the bolded part. It doesn't make sense for either to keep yelling after the gunshot.
If Martin is yelling, the yells stop after the gunshot because he's been shot and can't yell.
If Zimmerman is yelling, the yells stop after the gunshot because he shot Martin and no longer needs to yell for help, because a shot Martin is no longer a danger to him.
If I shot someone in a panic, I'd be calling for help. I'd want the whole neighborhood to wake up and see what happened and I'd want police and an ambulance ASAP.
Looks like we will be seeing more information on this case in the coming weeks.
A trove of evidence collected for George Zimmerman’s highly anticipated second-degree murder trial will be made public Thursday, including an autopsy report documenting Trayvon Martin’s single gunshot in the chest.
Special prosecutor Angela B. Corey, the state attorney for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, created a special website for media to access 67 CDs’ worth of information collected in the wake of Trayvon’s death.
I imagine the following will come as "big news" for some. Although it could have been guessed seeing as it was the reason for him being suspended in the first place.
Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old who was shot and killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer, had the drug THC in his system the night of this death
Actually, it all makes sense now. I've seen Reefer Madness, so I know what that shit'll do to you.
Zimmerman is lucky to be alive.
I think that the defense will use this to prove that Zimmerman didn't racially profile Martin. They will tell the jury, "Zimmerman thought Martin was acting like he was on drugs because he was on drugs."
Actually, it all makes sense now. I've seen Reefer Madness, so I know what that shit'll do to you.
Zimmerman is lucky to be alive.
I think that the defense will use this to prove that Zimmerman didn't racially profile Martin. They will tell the jury, "Zimmerman thought Martin was acting like he was on drugs because he was on drugs."
It may indeed help the defense establish that Martin was plausibly acting suspicious in the way that Zimmerman described to police. Trace evidence of marijuana use does not necessarily mean that Martin was high at the time of the shooting, though, and I understand that the prosecution also has the multiple security camera tapes showing Martin from the night of the incident in question, and if Martin's behavior doesnt' seem unusual on those tapes, the jury may still conclude that Zimmerman's suspicions were unwarranted.
Don't worry folks, I'm sure the vigilante hero Zimmerman will beat these false charges. He'll be out killing these ni-errr... criminals in no time! He's truly is an American hero. All you people cheering him on must be so pleased! I truly hope, truly, that you run across such a man when you go out to gets some stuff for a family member and stop to call your girlfriend on the way back. If you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about! Happy endings for all!
Fact: Zimmerman was a paranoid Batman-wannabe
Fact: He stalked a young man doing nothing but talking on the phone while on the way back from an errand
Fact: He shot and killed Martin
Zimmerman instigated this, so he is culpable in my eyes.
I'm at a loss if Martin blackened both of zimmermans eyes, broke his nose and smashed his head, how come the only injury to his hands is an abrasion on his left hand on the ring finger? I mean I haven't been in a knock down drag out fight, but I've punched someone in the face before and my hand swelled up something nasty the next day.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm at a loss if Martin blackened both of zimmermans eyes, broke his nose and smashed his head, how come the only injury to his hands is an abrasion on his left hand on the ring finger? I mean I haven't been in a knock down drag out fight, but I've punched someone in the face before and my hand swelled up something nasty the next day.
You know what you need to have swelling or bruising after a fight?
A heartbeat.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
Don't worry folks, I'm sure the vigilante hero Zimmerman will beat these false charges. He'll be out killing these ni-errr... criminals in no time! He's truly is an American hero. All you people cheering him on must be so pleased! I truly hope, truly, that you run across such a man when you go out to gets some stuff for a family member and stop to call your girlfriend on the way back. If you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about! Happy endings for all!
Fact: Zimmerman was a paranoid Batman-wannabe
Fact: He stalked a young man doing nothing but talking on the phone while on the way back from an errand
Fact: He shot and killed Martin
Zimmerman instigated this, so he is culpable in my eyes.
Punisher wanna-be. And a pretty bad one at that. Frank never would have let some skinny kid put a whuppin' on him, or bothered gunning down a kid just rolling through a nice neighborhood who "didn't belong."
Walkerdog on MTGO
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
I'm at a loss if Martin blackened both of zimmermans eyes, broke his nose and smashed his head, how come the only injury to his hands is an abrasion on his left hand on the ring finger? I mean I haven't been in a knock down drag out fight, but I've punched someone in the face before and my hand swelled up something nasty the next day.
You know what you need to have swelling or bruising after a fight?
A heartbeat.
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact. Though thinking about it Zimmerman could have gotten the black eyes from the busted nose I swear I remember hearing that someone breaking your nose gives you black eyes.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact. Though thinking about it Zimmerman could have gotten the black eyes from the busted nose I swear I remember hearing that someone breaking your nose gives you black eyes.
Generally depends on the angle and impact.
A direct shot to the bridge of the nose will often result in bilateral black eyes, due to drainage of edematous tissues and fractured sinus bones, especially after you lay down for a while.
A glancing blow from the side is more likely result in nasal cartilage damage, which will bleed heavily but probably not cause swelling around the eyes.
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact. Though thinking about it Zimmerman could have gotten the black eyes from the busted nose I swear I remember hearing that someone breaking your nose gives you black eyes.
Generally depends on the angle and impact.
A direct shot to the bridge of the nose will often result in bilateral black eyes, due to drainage of edematous tissues and fractured sinus bones, especially after you lay down for a while.
A glancing blow from the side is more likely result in nasal cartilage damage, which will bleed heavily but probably not cause swelling around the eyes.
Ahh thanks for that. Honestly I think I remembered the black eye thing from LA Confidential and the hooker who got a nose job.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm at a loss if Martin blackened both of zimmermans eyes, broke his nose and smashed his head, how come the only injury to his hands is an abrasion on his left hand on the ring finger? I mean I haven't been in a knock down drag out fight, but I've punched someone in the face before and my hand swelled up something nasty the next day.
You know what you need to have swelling or bruising after a fight?
A heartbeat.
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact.
An impact by itself would cause a contusion over time given blood pressure. An abrasion would require Martin to hit something that would scrape or cut his hand.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact. Though thinking about it Zimmerman could have gotten the black eyes from the busted nose I swear I remember hearing that someone breaking your nose gives you black eyes.
Generally depends on the angle and impact.
A direct shot to the bridge of the nose will often result in bilateral black eyes, due to drainage of edematous tissues and fractured sinus bones, especially after you lay down for a while.
A glancing blow from the side is more likely result in nasal cartilage damage, which will bleed heavily but probably not cause swelling around the eyes.
Ahh thanks for that. Honestly I think I remembered the black eye thing from LA Confidential and the hooker who got a nose job.
Yeah, and that's a good example of what can happen, but also it's good to know that the kind of black eye you get from a busted nose is typically different in display than a black eye caused by direct orbital trauma. The latter will be more swollen, especially around the outside of the eye and top, whereas the former tends to be less swollen and has more discoloration closer to the nasal bones.
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact. Though thinking about it Zimmerman could have gotten the black eyes from the busted nose I swear I remember hearing that someone breaking your nose gives you black eyes.
Generally depends on the angle and impact.
A direct shot to the bridge of the nose will often result in bilateral black eyes, due to drainage of edematous tissues and fractured sinus bones, especially after you lay down for a while.
A glancing blow from the side is more likely result in nasal cartilage damage, which will bleed heavily but probably not cause swelling around the eyes.
Ahh thanks for that. Honestly I think I remembered the black eye thing from LA Confidential and the hooker who got a nose job.
Yeah, and that's a good example of what can happen, but also it's good to know that the kind of black eye you get from a busted nose is typically different in display than a black eye caused by direct orbital trauma. The latter will be more swollen, especially around the outside of the eye and top, whereas the former tends to be less swollen and has more discoloration closer to the nasal bones.
I'll remember that in case I'm ever called to testify about black eyes... Is there anyway to tell with self inflicted ones? I remember as a kid giving myself a nasty shiner from opening a plastic package the idiot way and swinging my fist right into my damn eye.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I should clarify by the way -- contusions can still show up after death. What happens to your blood after your heart stops beating is that it begins to slowly pool in the direction of gravity. The blood can pool differently in areas where there's been a lot of soft tissue damage. I wouldn't think it necessarily means that Martin wasn't fighting with Zimmerman prior to death. It might mean that he didn't hit Zimmerman excessively hard.
Not really. Tissue trauma is tissue trama. The only thing you might be able to argue is that, if a blow looked particularly vicious and damaging (like, with corneal damage and whatnot), it probably wasn't intentional.
I should clarify by the way -- contusions can still show up after death. What happens to your blood after your heart stops beating is that it begins to slowly pool in the direction of gravity. The blood can pool differently in areas where there's been a lot of soft tissue damage. I wouldn't think it necessarily means that Martin wasn't fighting with Zimmerman prior to death. It might mean that he didn't hit Zimmerman excessively hard.
Indeed.
The gravity-forced pooling of blood is called "lividity," and if enough vascular pressure remains at the sight of an injury, blood will pool there.
Lividity is also one of the ways for paramedics to tell whether or not it's worthwhile to even attempt CPR on someone.
Not really. Tissue trauma is tissue trama. The only thing you might be able to argue is that, if a blow looked particularly vicious and damaging (like, with corneal damage and whatnot), it probably wasn't intentional.
I should clarify by the way -- contusions can still show up after death. What happens to your blood after your heart stops beating is that it begins to slowly pool in the direction of gravity. The blood can pool differently in areas where there's been a lot of soft tissue damage. I wouldn't think it necessarily means that Martin wasn't fighting with Zimmerman prior to death. It might mean that he didn't hit Zimmerman excessively hard.
Indeed.
The gravity-forced pooling of blood is called "lividity," and if enough vascular pressure remains at the sight of an injury, blood will pool there.
Lividity is also one of the ways for paramedics to tell whether or not it's worthwhile to even attempt CPR on someone.
Other fun uses for lividity: determining/corroborating the time of death, as blood tends to pool in a generally uniform way from person to person. Rigor mortis also tends to be pretty uniform from person to person, and can also be used to estimate a time of death. If a corpse exhibits less livor mortis than one would expect based on the degree/progression of rigor mortis, it's a pretty good hint that someone moved the body.
Forensics are interesting. Weird. Creepy. But interesting.
Of course the question is whether we dismiss the reliability of the evidence, dismiss the conclusions it suggests, or claim it doesn't matter anyway because Zimmerman is guilty regardless because skittles.
And yeah, color me skeptical that the prosecutor had a good faith belief that a murder conviction was ever possible.. Even manslaughter may seem like a stretch now.
Well of course you're skeptical. You've been skeptical of anything other than "Martin was a Dire Thug and that poor Zimmerman dude was framed."
How long does THC stay in the system? I assume this (like the bruising) is something the ME will discuss at trial, but given that Martin had apparently been grounded in part for using marijuana, it seems plausible that the 'trace amounts' were not from his being high at that very moment (especially given that he was at his dad's house when he left).
I tend to doubt that Zimmerman hit himself in the face.
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Yeah, that was my first thought on the THC positive. Like, if we're talking about a test that showed he was (likely) actually under the influence at the time of death, that's one thing. But if it's the general "you've smoked weed in the last month" type of positive...well, so what?
And even if he was high at the time, it's only of minimal bearing on the situation at hand. Though it would have some significance. It would both reduce the "profiling" aspect of Zimmerman's suspicion (since he actually would have been "acting high") and may increase the likelihood that Martin would have made a poor decision when it comes to confronting Zimmerman. At the same time, I've known few dudes that actually get more violent when high...I mean, it happens, but it's like the opposite of alcohol in that regard.
Overall I'm leaning towards "this doesn't mean much either way, and likely means absolutely nothing."
Of course the question is whether we dismiss the reliability of the evidence, dismiss the conclusions it suggests, or claim it doesn't matter anyway because Zimmerman is guilty regardless because skittles.
And yeah, color me skeptical that the prosecutor had a good faith belief that a murder conviction was ever possible.. Even manslaughter may seem like a stretch now.
Well of course you're skeptical. You've been skeptical of anything other than "Martin was a Dire Thug and that poor Zimmerman dude was framed."
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Wow, what a dirt bag.
Includes video from the clubhouse, more witness testimony, etc.
Possible hate crime charges.
I don't see how they can expect to prove that he acted out of hatred of blacks. But ok.
Also, Zimmerman's lawyers being threatened, and more cases of racially-motivated crimes related to the Trayvon Martin story.
ABC News article
Yar, if you read your own link, the Justice Department has been investigating the whole case, including the behavior of the Sanford police, not simply 'should we charge Zimmerman with a hate crime'. (And they absolutely SHOULD investigate Sanford's cops, given the previous cover-up when a cop's kid attacked a homeless man while shouting racial slurs.)
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When did I say anyone claimed that either?
Over sensitive much?
Sorry, are you just bored now, or what?
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MSN News
To me this supports that Zimmerman was the one calling for help. I think a lot of people believe that it is Martin calling for help because the cries end immediately after the gun shot. However without wounds on Martin it is difficult to put Zimmerman as the aggressor in the fight.
I am really starting to doubt that the prosecution has any secret evidence that will give them a chance of a murder conviction.
And yeah, color me skeptical that the prosecutor had a good faith belief that a murder conviction was ever possible.. Even manslaughter may seem like a stretch now.
I never understood the logic behind the bolded part. It doesn't make sense for either to keep yelling after the gunshot.
If Martin is yelling, the yells stop after the gunshot because he's been shot and can't yell.
If Zimmerman is yelling, the yells stop after the gunshot because he shot Martin and no longer needs to yell for help, because a shot Martin is no longer a danger to him.
If I shot someone in a panic, I'd be calling for help. I'd want the whole neighborhood to wake up and see what happened and I'd want police and an ambulance ASAP.
I imagine the following will come as "big news" for some. Although it could have been guessed seeing as it was the reason for him being suspended in the first place. source
Zimmerman is lucky to be alive.
I think that the defense will use this to prove that Zimmerman didn't racially profile Martin. They will tell the jury, "Zimmerman thought Martin was acting like he was on drugs because he was on drugs."
It may indeed help the defense establish that Martin was plausibly acting suspicious in the way that Zimmerman described to police. Trace evidence of marijuana use does not necessarily mean that Martin was high at the time of the shooting, though, and I understand that the prosecution also has the multiple security camera tapes showing Martin from the night of the incident in question, and if Martin's behavior doesnt' seem unusual on those tapes, the jury may still conclude that Zimmerman's suspicions were unwarranted.
Fact: Zimmerman was a paranoid Batman-wannabe
Fact: He stalked a young man doing nothing but talking on the phone while on the way back from an errand
Fact: He shot and killed Martin
Zimmerman instigated this, so he is culpable in my eyes.
pleasepaypreacher.net
You know what you need to have swelling or bruising after a fight?
A heartbeat.
Punisher wanna-be. And a pretty bad one at that. Frank never would have let some skinny kid put a whuppin' on him, or bothered gunning down a kid just rolling through a nice neighborhood who "didn't belong."
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Wouldn't there at least be abraisions on his other hand or something? I mean you bust someones nose thats going to screw up your hand, cartilege is soft but it still causes an impact. Though thinking about it Zimmerman could have gotten the black eyes from the busted nose I swear I remember hearing that someone breaking your nose gives you black eyes.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Generally depends on the angle and impact.
A direct shot to the bridge of the nose will often result in bilateral black eyes, due to drainage of edematous tissues and fractured sinus bones, especially after you lay down for a while.
A glancing blow from the side is more likely result in nasal cartilage damage, which will bleed heavily but probably not cause swelling around the eyes.
Ahh thanks for that. Honestly I think I remembered the black eye thing from LA Confidential and the hooker who got a nose job.
pleasepaypreacher.net
An impact by itself would cause a contusion over time given blood pressure. An abrasion would require Martin to hit something that would scrape or cut his hand.
Yeah, and that's a good example of what can happen, but also it's good to know that the kind of black eye you get from a busted nose is typically different in display than a black eye caused by direct orbital trauma. The latter will be more swollen, especially around the outside of the eye and top, whereas the former tends to be less swollen and has more discoloration closer to the nasal bones.
I'll remember that in case I'm ever called to testify about black eyes... Is there anyway to tell with self inflicted ones? I remember as a kid giving myself a nasty shiner from opening a plastic package the idiot way and swinging my fist right into my damn eye.
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
Not really. Tissue trauma is tissue trama. The only thing you might be able to argue is that, if a blow looked particularly vicious and damaging (like, with corneal damage and whatnot), it probably wasn't intentional.
Indeed.
The gravity-forced pooling of blood is called "lividity," and if enough vascular pressure remains at the sight of an injury, blood will pool there.
Lividity is also one of the ways for paramedics to tell whether or not it's worthwhile to even attempt CPR on someone.
Other fun uses for lividity: determining/corroborating the time of death, as blood tends to pool in a generally uniform way from person to person. Rigor mortis also tends to be pretty uniform from person to person, and can also be used to estimate a time of death. If a corpse exhibits less livor mortis than one would expect based on the degree/progression of rigor mortis, it's a pretty good hint that someone moved the body.
Forensics are interesting. Weird. Creepy. But interesting.
Well of course you're skeptical. You've been skeptical of anything other than "Martin was a Dire Thug and that poor Zimmerman dude was framed."
How long does THC stay in the system? I assume this (like the bruising) is something the ME will discuss at trial, but given that Martin had apparently been grounded in part for using marijuana, it seems plausible that the 'trace amounts' were not from his being high at that very moment (especially given that he was at his dad's house when he left).
I tend to doubt that Zimmerman hit himself in the face.
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Weeks for some people.
Good God, people. It's not a fucking character flaw of any kind to prefer not to jump to conclusions.
Yeah, that was my first thought on the THC positive. Like, if we're talking about a test that showed he was (likely) actually under the influence at the time of death, that's one thing. But if it's the general "you've smoked weed in the last month" type of positive...well, so what?
And even if he was high at the time, it's only of minimal bearing on the situation at hand. Though it would have some significance. It would both reduce the "profiling" aspect of Zimmerman's suspicion (since he actually would have been "acting high") and may increase the likelihood that Martin would have made a poor decision when it comes to confronting Zimmerman. At the same time, I've known few dudes that actually get more violent when high...I mean, it happens, but it's like the opposite of alcohol in that regard.
Overall I'm leaning towards "this doesn't mean much either way, and likely means absolutely nothing."
I'm skeptical of this as well.
But thanks for playing, oh goosiest of geese.
Who, exactly, has been cheering him?
No one has been cheering for Zimmerman in this thread. I imagine Gigazombie has confused this thread for a Freeper thread.