The riot was good but dissapointing as they scaled everything back. No horses, less Sandor stuff, and only one joff slap.
Scenes like that are bound to be inferior to the books due to budget problems, I guess.
And safety issues. Hard to be riding a bunch of horses through people pushing and shoving without concern over whether someone accidentally gets jostled in front of the horse and ridden down for real.
Neither of the changes really bothered me, mostly because I think I can see where they're going with them.
Now the following is assuming that it was the warlocks who took the dragons, which seems likely to be the case. In the book, Dany goes into the House of the Undying to ask for their help and they basically get roasted for... being creepy? They make it clear in the text that the warlocks are up to no good through a combination of Dany's visions and her internal monologue, but that's a little harder to convey on screen. So I figured instead they'll have her venture inside the House of the Undying to get the dragons back, and the subsequent immolation of the warlocks will be a bit more justified.
I'm a bit less clear on the changes to the Jon storyline. It's been so long since I've read Clash that I forget the specifics. He lets Ygritte go and they meet back up later when Halfhand has Jon kill him, right? I figure having Jon walk around with her familiarizes her character to the audience earlier than next season, for one thing. For another, and this is just wild speculation on my part, I think they're going to do a "Oh no, did he really betray the Night's Watch or is he really undercover?" thing. Once again, it was easy to look at Jon's internal conflict and his view of the wildling perspective through his monologues, but it plays better on screen if we have someone to concretely personify his connection to the "free people."
The series definitely is taking more liberties with the source, but it still seems mostly limited to minor character stuff. Dany will probably have to go reclaim her dragons from the warlocks. It will probably make the urgency of her having to get out of Qarth a bit more pronounced.
As for Jon and Ygritte, my guess is that by letting them wander around together a bit, it lets the relationship form more organically than the "You took me by surprise at swordpoint, which is the hottest thing a dude can do for a girl in my culture" way it was presented in the book.
Even if they had a movie budget just for that scene, there's never gonna be horses in it. Waaay too dangerous, they don't know that people are acting and it's only pretend chaos. Either someone's getting trampled or a horse is breaking a leg, or both.
Anyway, how the hell is Jon's story broken "probably irreparably"? Like, not to be rude but there's like a half dozen easy ways to move Jon's story right along the same path it always was on without thinking very hard about it, the only thing this extended bit with Ygritte is doing is externalizing the conflict within himself from the books, and giving her a bit more character introduction now instead of later.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
And presumably making things less creepy than "you stole me, let's fuck." (I am simplifying things somewhat, but not much) The show has enough gender issues in Essos and with the near rape of 15 year olds.
Also, kudos to Sophie Turner for playing that scene as well as she did. We say it every week, but the casting people are amazing. I think they're basically hitting at a 99% clip (Kit Harrington is the misfire, unfortunately).
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I totally see where people are coming from, complaining about Jon Snow being a big wooden lump, but... Jon Snow IS a big wooden lump. He's kinda stodgy and self righteous and usually doesn't show much emotion except for teenaged self righteousness, which other characters are pretty constantly calling him on. I think we'll really find out next season with Jon travelling with the wildlings and actually enjoying their company a lot, Ygritte really pulls that stick out of his ass.
Like up until this episode I would've said that Bran was probably the weakest of the child actors (though that's like being the least pretty miss america contestant). But once he had a scene that called for really raw emotions he totally knocked it out of the park. And Theon just seemed like a fratboy in the first season, but once he got the material to work with Alfie Allen's been doing an amazing job.
Anyway my point is Jon's actor being derpy might not be his fault when Jon himself is pretty damn derpy. I'm not exactly defending him, I just think we should withhold judgment for nwo
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The changes to Stannis (making him not mourn Renly at all, okay whatever), to Littlefinger (let's spell out my desires everywhere), to Dany (gotta go save my dragons from the evil warlocks!! aka introducing a conventional bad fanfic plot), and to Arya (she got chased by a soldier... and just one soldier... and her interaction with Jaqen at the end seemed, honestly, dumb as fuck) are just eyerolling. There's a ton of great scenes all over ACOK, so the fact that they're straying so hard in a butterfly effect-esque manner is bleh. I don't really have an opinion on Jon's arc since I've never really liked Jon.
What's annoyed me most about the changes is what they've done with Stannis. Not giving him much screen time and instead wasting so much time on Littlefinger and Dany, as well as cutting out important stuff that make him into a human being (like mourning Renly) instead of a complete douchebag.
Again, I think a major problem they had to overcome is only having 10 episodes with roughly 50 minutes (give or take) of material each episode to work with, along with budget and actors contracts. It's still by far the best show on television and one of my favorite shows ever, but it could have been even better if they found ways to stick closer to the source material.
there are some bits that I miss from the books.
It's been mentioned before but the whole renly-stannis-peach thing really defined both em them for me and we didn't get any of that here.
wasn't so horrible in this latest episode, because I kind of wondered why nothing like that ever happened in the books.
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DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
I'm enjoying the changes. It bring a freshness to the show and while of course its going to follow the major plotlines of the book it's nice to not know everything that is going to happen and give some life to some of the less actiony plotlines.
I've never been one to treat source material for a series to be gospel, though. I just want to be entertained, if they do it differently than the book but remain entertaining that is OK by me.
What's annoyed me most about the changes is what they've done with Stannis. Not giving him much screen time and instead wasting so much time on Littlefinger and Dany, as well as cutting out important stuff that make him into a human being (like mourning Renly) instead of a complete douchebag.
Again, I think a major problem they had to overcome is only having 10 episodes with roughly 50 minutes (give or take) of material each episode to work with, along with budget and actors contracts. It's still by far the best show on television and one of my favorite shows ever, but it could have been even better if they found ways to stick closer to the source material.
The only time Stannis mourns Renly they quoted directly. Stannis don't give no fucks.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Talk about about bad casting: Ygritte is gorgeous!
This is the only change I really cared for, but I'm sure they'll pull it together.
I'm curious if accelerating Danny's escape from Quarth is to help squeeze Selmy's identity reveal into this season.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Ygritte suffers from the same problem that Mila Kunis suffered in the Book of Eli: everyone else is so rugged and dirty, but they're all pretty and well-groomed.
And Theon just seemed like a fratboy in the first season, but once he got the material to work with Alfie Allen's been doing an amazing job.
I don't have an issue with Alfie's performance on a technical level, I just feel like he's being directed to portray someone else entirely. To me Theon was always an overconfident, swaggering idiot. This confidence is the primary contrast between him and Reek, whereas Show Theon is barely keeping his shit together. It's the same problem I have with Lena as Cersei, they're playing their designated sociopaths as actual human beings.
Yeah I don't remember Theon being such an immature loser in the books. When one of his crew tried to question his authority on a relatively minor issue, he straight up killed him with an arrow. A confused, ineffective idiot with a chip on his shoulder, sure, but not an indecisive little boy.
Mereen. In Quarth she was still Mother of Dragons, not Mother of Dragons and Slaves and All Children and Everyone Else Too I Guess, Dario is Soooo Dreamy
Anything they can do to make me enjoy the Dany story, and speed it up, I am all in on. On that note, the one thing I have liked about her story (starting w/ book 3) is the supporting characters that surround her, at least they are interesting.
I'm a bit less clear on the changes to the Jon storyline. It's been so long since I've read Clash that I forget the specifics. He lets Ygritte go and they meet back up later when Halfhand has Jon kill him, right? I figure having Jon walk around with her familiarizes her character to the audience earlier than next season, for one thing.
Sure. But you also lost the (harrowing) climb up the mountain to get to Ygritte's camp, you lose Halfhand directing Jon to betray him and act as a spy, you lose Jon & Ghost warginess, you lose the Halfhand's team being spotted by the wildling warg. You lose the conflict Jon has in trying to both keep his vows and act undercover. Jon looks fucking incompetent, not merciful, and other than hot ginger tail there's no motivation for him to betray the Watch. It's just broken.
Edit: On Theon's side, you also lose the Bran & Rickon Fakeout Death, which I thought was very well-executed, pun intended, in the book.
Then can still have Halfhand find Jon the next day, or have Jon find Halfhand while warging Ghost as he sleeps. Ygritte can still get away / be freed to bring Rattles down on them.
They CAN still bring it back in line with the book where it matters, not sure if they will. They might have Jon captured by Rattles and have Halfhand tell Jon all that stuff when he's captured.
The only changes I don't like so far are between Jon and the Halfhand. It started with Jon volunteering instead of being picked, and keeps bugging me from there. But I wouldn't say that his "story is broken".
Also, Theon will still probably tar up a couple of kids and pretend they're Bran and Rickon, Ep 6 doesn't preclude that
The part with Daenarys and the Dragons actually makes more narrative sense, I think, but it does feel very cliche.
I think the faceless man interaction this week was bad. Its supposed to be dark and evil, like Harrenhall is horrible. There is this GLOOM that pervades it and basically this week they turned it into buddy cop drama. Still entertaining.
I thought the riot was done really well, would have liked to have seen more surging more peasant murdering. Like it seemed like the crowd kind of engaged, not really, picked off a few stragglers. Whereas in the book, when I was reading, I was thinking more like full scale chaos people getting stabbed, fighting each other, the mob just going beserk, more so than this week. Still really enjoyed it, especially the part with the Hound. Here let me hold you up with one hand, while I gut you with the other. Fatastic, though I will say I think they have made the Hound too sympathetic too early.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Salvation, if you like they are going to cut Jon killing Qhorin you are out of your mind.
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Robert was a pretty shitty person.
Ygritte was perfect.
oops. Oh well.
Scenes like that are bound to be inferior to the books due to budget problems, I guess.
Yeah, boooooo.
Pretty much everything but the way the riot went down and Cassell were needless. Jon's story is now broken, probably irreparably.
If they were really that crunched for time (which, frankly, I don't buy) extend the season two episodes, it's not like they won't turn a profit on it.
And safety issues. Hard to be riding a bunch of horses through people pushing and shoving without concern over whether someone accidentally gets jostled in front of the horse and ridden down for real.
Guessing that's the House of the Undying the dragons are being taken to?
I thought they nailed the riot. Don't really need to horses to get what you need out of that scene.
I'm a bit less clear on the changes to the Jon storyline. It's been so long since I've read Clash that I forget the specifics. He lets Ygritte go and they meet back up later when Halfhand has Jon kill him, right? I figure having Jon walk around with her familiarizes her character to the audience earlier than next season, for one thing. For another, and this is just wild speculation on my part, I think they're going to do a "Oh no, did he really betray the Night's Watch or is he really undercover?" thing. Once again, it was easy to look at Jon's internal conflict and his view of the wildling perspective through his monologues, but it plays better on screen if we have someone to concretely personify his connection to the "free people."
As for Jon and Ygritte, my guess is that by letting them wander around together a bit, it lets the relationship form more organically than the "You took me by surprise at swordpoint, which is the hottest thing a dude can do for a girl in my culture" way it was presented in the book.
Anyway, how the hell is Jon's story broken "probably irreparably"? Like, not to be rude but there's like a half dozen easy ways to move Jon's story right along the same path it always was on without thinking very hard about it, the only thing this extended bit with Ygritte is doing is externalizing the conflict within himself from the books, and giving her a bit more character introduction now instead of later.
Also, kudos to Sophie Turner for playing that scene as well as she did. We say it every week, but the casting people are amazing. I think they're basically hitting at a 99% clip (Kit Harrington is the misfire, unfortunately).
Like up until this episode I would've said that Bran was probably the weakest of the child actors (though that's like being the least pretty miss america contestant). But once he had a scene that called for really raw emotions he totally knocked it out of the park. And Theon just seemed like a fratboy in the first season, but once he got the material to work with Alfie Allen's been doing an amazing job.
Anyway my point is Jon's actor being derpy might not be his fault when Jon himself is pretty damn derpy. I'm not exactly defending him, I just think we should withhold judgment for nwo
Again, I think a major problem they had to overcome is only having 10 episodes with roughly 50 minutes (give or take) of material each episode to work with, along with budget and actors contracts. It's still by far the best show on television and one of my favorite shows ever, but it could have been even better if they found ways to stick closer to the source material.
It's been mentioned before but the whole renly-stannis-peach thing really defined both em them for me and we didn't get any of that here.
I've never been one to treat source material for a series to be gospel, though. I just want to be entertained, if they do it differently than the book but remain entertaining that is OK by me.
The only time Stannis mourns Renly they quoted directly. Stannis don't give no fucks.
This is the only change I really cared for, but I'm sure they'll pull it together.
I'm curious if accelerating Danny's escape from Quarth is to help squeeze Selmy's identity reveal into this season.
They're going to have to seriously ramp up his resolve in the next episode or pass that duty off to Ramsay.
I also don't recall Daenary being this whiny.
But yeah, she *became* a whiny idealist in
So perfect
Glorious.
Sure. But you also lost the (harrowing) climb up the mountain to get to Ygritte's camp, you lose Halfhand directing Jon to betray him and act as a spy, you lose Jon & Ghost warginess, you lose the Halfhand's team being spotted by the wildling warg. You lose the conflict Jon has in trying to both keep his vows and act undercover. Jon looks fucking incompetent, not merciful, and other than hot ginger tail there's no motivation for him to betray the Watch. It's just broken.
Edit: On Theon's side, you also lose the Bran & Rickon Fakeout Death, which I thought was very well-executed, pun intended, in the book.
They CAN still bring it back in line with the book where it matters, not sure if they will. They might have Jon captured by Rattles and have Halfhand tell Jon all that stuff when he's captured.
Also, Theon will still probably tar up a couple of kids and pretend they're Bran and Rickon, Ep 6 doesn't preclude that
I'm curious how that's going to play out
I think the faceless man interaction this week was bad. Its supposed to be dark and evil, like Harrenhall is horrible. There is this GLOOM that pervades it and basically this week they turned it into buddy cop drama. Still entertaining.
I thought the riot was done really well, would have liked to have seen more surging more peasant murdering. Like it seemed like the crowd kind of engaged, not really, picked off a few stragglers. Whereas in the book, when I was reading, I was thinking more like full scale chaos people getting stabbed, fighting each other, the mob just going beserk, more so than this week. Still really enjoyed it, especially the part with the Hound. Here let me hold you up with one hand, while I gut you with the other. Fatastic, though I will say I think they have made the Hound too sympathetic too early.