[Spec Ops: The Line] Good Story, Bro!

Grunt's Ghosts

Spec Ops: The Line is a third person shooter from Yager Development and published by 2K Games. From what the Spec Ops website says, the game is set in Dubai six months after a cataclysmic sandstorm wiped it off the map. The storm still rages and the government seems gone. People are fleeing the city and criminals and outlaws are moving in. The U.S sends in U.S. Army Colonel John Konrad and the 33rd Infantry to help protect the people leaving. But with the sand and stuff, their communications have gone down and they are believed dead until a week ago. That's when a distress signal is received from them. You are sent in to find Konrad and that's when things get weird.

Trailer:
youtube.com/watch?v=Jge2-xeuzhs

I'm currently downloading the demo and will tell you what I think of it as soon as I'm done.

Grunt's Ghosts

So after playing the demo I can say that it's cool but nothing special. The story seems

that the people of Dubai and the 33rd are in the middle of a Civil War and the rebel Dubai people are being run by an American. Both sides want to kill you (demo skip from chapter 1 to 5) and you have to stop them and what ever is happening behind the scenes.

As far as the combat, think CoD in third person. Maybe it's the demo, but everyone seems to be a bit squishy. I played normal (hardest mode the demo lets you play) and enemies would stand in the middle of the area and it would take 2-5 bullets to kill them. Which is good as enemies don't drop ammo (as far as I could see), you find that laying around in boxes. You die faster than in CoD:BOPS but with a bit of common sense, that doesn't seem to be a problem. The game looks great, the sand doesn't hinder your vision too much but it does blur the field.

Johnny Chopsocky

So yeah, just beat the single player.

Wow. A pedestrian first half that goes insane for the middle arc and then full-on bugfuck crazypants for the ending.

I wish the story and the aesthetics and the acting had been paired with better gameplay mechanics, because some of the shit this game pulls off in the campaign story is phenomenal.

Also the loading screens become amazing for the last bit. I won't say how or why, I'll just say that Yager pulled off something special from a narrative standpoint and it almost finds a way to reignite the 'games as art' debate.

Lawndart

"Things get weird" is the mildest possible way to phrase how off the rails the narrative of this game goes in comparison to pretty much any other military shooter.

First off, the demo is a good indication of how the game plays, in that it's competent but not innovative Gears-style cover-based shooting with some very rudimentary squad-based stuff added.

However, the demo does a pretty bad job of indicating the really dark and intense places the single player narrative goes. The full game is closer to Apocalypse Now than Call Of Duty, and is as vicious of a critique of the whole military shooter genre as I can imagine a major studio actually releasing. Some of the more dramatic moments are a tad heavy-handed, and there are some points where you're only given the illusion of moral choice, but over all the single player arc makes this one of the most intense and unique games I've played in quite a while.

And yeah, the loading screen messages, while also not the most subtle way of getting across the message of the game, get pretty fucking weird. Going from the generic "So and so gun has such and such a sight" to "Do you feel like a hero yet?" reflects how the game as whole lures you in by starting as a pedestrian, even generic military shooter and then decides to fuck with your expectations, repeatedly.

Also, Amazon has the PC/Steamworks download version on sale for 50% off for the next week or so.

Johnny Chopsocky

I don't think I've ever felt so melancholy after finishing a game where I successfully killed all the dudes to victory, and the melancholy doesn't come from "man, what a short/shit game" but from "shit man, I just... shit".

Spec Ops: The Line made me feel bad about pixel murder.

Dehumanized

Then the loading screens go from "Do you feel like a hero yet?" to "This is all your fault" and "You're still a good person..."

Fucking love this game, and highly recommend it. $25 might be a bit steep for some, but I think I've gotten my money's worth.

As far as I can tell, Yager is basically a new studio and I want to see what they'll do next, so I want this game to see enough success for them to be able to do so.

cckerberos

This sounds amazing. But from what I've heard it's only 4-6 hours long? If that's the case, then I have a hard time pulling the trigger even at only $25.

Dehumanized

yes if you only purchase games on a strict hours to dollars ratio this would not be the game for you

Lawndart

cckerberos wrote: »

This sounds amazing. But from what I've heard it's only 4-6 hours long? If that's the case, then I have a hard time pulling the trigger even at only $25.

Yeah, it's a short game, although it's closer to 6-7 hours than 4.

However, the gameplay is solid (if nothing innovative) and the plot and setting are top notch. I didn't feel ripped off at all paying $25 for this game, but I would have been slightly peeved if I'd paid $50.

Edit: And also, my proposed thread title, which is both far more verbose and slightly more accurate than the current one: "[Spec Ops: The Line] - The Soul-Crushing Existential Horror Of War: The Game (Press A To Suffer Crippling PTSD, Press X To Violate The Geneva Convention)"

mere_immortal

Gotta say I really love how the combat feels. A lot of reviews have said it's a bit plain and generic, but I love how deadly all the weapons feel and vulnerable you are. Cover system isn't amazing, be nice if you could round corners, but it's great not having to pump a bunch of rounds into a dude and just see him reel from them then run to cover.

I think I'm just to the point where stuff is getting apocolypse now-y.

Chaper (I think) 7, just been chased by the mad dude in the helicopter shooting at me.

Arteen

Glad to hear the game is worth playing. I want to pick this up sometime, but I have too many games in my backlog to justify buying another right now.

Big Classy

My god this game is depressing. In the best way ofcourse. I loved the ending. I mean hated it but that was kind of.... I'm confused now. Just buy it.

Heisenberg

I'm not as impressed with the plot as others are. It's really heavily influenced by Apocalypse Now to the point where it doesn't seem to have much of it's own to say, though I just got to Chapter 9. It's still leagues and miles better than drivel like Call of Duty and Gears of War, however.

Big Classy

Heisenberg wrote: »

I'm not as impressed with the plot as others are. It's really heavily influenced by Apocalypse Now to the point where it doesn't seem to have much of it's own to say, though I just got to Chapter 9. It's still leagues and miles better than drivel like Call of Duty and Gears of War, however.

Yeah thats what we all thought. Wait for it.

Johnny Chopsocky

God, I wanna go back now and experiment.

Do more executions, see if the game reacts. Execute nobody, see if the game reacts. Set the colors to 'vibrant', see if it makes it more surreal.

But dammit, I'm having a hard time getting in the mood for it. Those final chapters and that ending punched me in the gut good.

It's not even the "war is a terrible thing" tone, it's also the "look at what you did. You did this. Take it in, it's your 'proud' accomplishment after all" tone.

I was not expecting this from this game at all. Kudos to you, Yager. You've made the counterpoint to the modern military shooter.

Edit: spoilered some stuff.

TPSou

This could be a whole new trend in gaming. The sarcastic victory.

Imagine if it spread to other genres, like in PGR5 you win the championship and it zooms out to show the polar ice caps melting a little faster thanks to your emissions.
Or you win the Championship in Fifa and it pops up with an advert for Fifa13.

Big Classy

you might wanna spoiler some of that so people can experience it themselves.

Honk

This game is completely amazing, almost unbelievably good for something that just came out of nowhere from a company I've never heard of.

GOTY so far for me.

Heisenberg

Got to Chapter 13. This is reminding me of Funny Games. Just a big "fuck you" for continuing to play, while critiquing how absurd the genre implicitly is. Very cerebral stuff.

Heisenberg

Finished. Probably the most important modern military shooter ever made, if for nothing else than to give the average gamer some perspective. It was a completely righteous counterpoint to everything Call of Duty stands for, almost a direct attack on these types of games while being one itself on the surface. I would feel bad for playing through it if I wasn't so aware of the artistic intent.

Some thoughts:

The ending was sadly predictable with it all being in his head, along with the somewhat on the nose delivery of Conrad actually just being a representation of the people who made the game. What I really liked, though, was all the subtle meta stuff along the way. Like the minigun sequence when the main guy decided to take down the tower - your minigun stops overheating. Or the strobe room where the statues started moving, and when that one dead teammate in chapter 14 comes out as the heavy and if he kills you you wake up from a nightmare and fight the heavy again as a regular dude. Or the intro helicopter sequence being identically repeated near the end of the game, which not only worked within the game narrative but as a statement against the repetitive and dehumanizing on-rails sequences in every shooter game.

My only complaint is the illusion of choice, though

the true choice is whether to keep playing or not

, so that doesn't even really hold too much ground. A really brilliant and intellectual game, definitely Game of the Year for me. The gameplay itself was nothing special, but that's kind of the point.

DrunkMc

I didn't even know there was its own thread, I posted in the Steam thread, but I also want to toss my hat in the ring. This game is WELL worth $25 off of Amazon. Its short, but this is only the second game to make me feel REALLY uncomfortable playing it. So uncomfortable that I'm not recommending this to my friend who was in Afgahnistan for 2 years. I honestly don't know how a real soldier would react to playing this. This game is 100% fucked, but really enjoyable.

I've stopped playing MANY shooters lately cause the guns don't have any weight or oommph to them. This game does NOT have that problem. Really good game. And honestly for a game that makes you feel as awful as this does, (in a no one is a hero in war kind of way), I wouldn't want it longer. I'm not sure I could have taken more of it.

Also, A fucking Plus for battle damage throughout the game. Like Batman AA and AC, the main character gets more and more fucked up as the game goes along. Small thing but adds SO much to it.

Big Classy

Not to mention their characters get more agitated and snappy throughout.

Lawndart

Since this scene hasn't been discussed as much, at least not in this thread, I actually found that the ending didn't have as much of an emotional impact as the slightly earlier scene where

(MAJOR LATE GAME PLOT SPOILERS)

One of your squadmates is lynched by a mob of civilians. Normally this would be a jingoistic if not racist "hoo-rah" moment where the noble American soldiers refrain from taking vengeance on the brown-skinned savage natives, but not only does this game fuck with that expectation by allowing the player to do what few if any military shooters allow the player to do and just flat-out massacre civilians (and get a Steam cheevo for it, for fuck's sake!) but they also place the whole lynching in context.

Why did this mob of unarmed civilians murder your squad mate?

Oh yeah, because they've been terrorized by assholes with guns and uniforms since the 33rd showed up, and oh yeah, you are the assholes with guns and uniforms that just destroyed Dubai's remaining water supply, essentially dooming every civilian in Dubai to die a slow, painful death.

So, they killed one of your buddies, but you've already murdered them, and their families, so even if you don't open fire on them, you've still committed a war crime.

Honestly, the ending seemed less visceral and less subtle in comparison.

Big Classy

That was pretty brutal but the bit with

Adams was far worse for me because of the emotional reaction from him and the way he just mentally unravels

That said, even the smaller, less relevant stuff has a big impact. The first soldier you come across... Depending on how you deal with him the gameplay after changes too.

Lawndart

Big Isy wrote: »

That said, even the smaller, less relevant stuff has a big impact. The first soldier you come across... Depending on how you deal with him the gameplay after changes too.

You mean the guy who's (early game spoilers, like, I think this bit's in the demo)

being held hostage in the downed plane?

Hearing that all these minor and not so minor choices actually impact how the rest of the game plays out makes me want to replay this game, but then again, the plot as a whole has done a great job of making me not want to play any military shooters at all for a while.

mere_immortal

I think the first time I really took notice of the change in dialogue was in chapter 10.

Pushing through the aquarium with the Mogwai song playing in the background, I executed a downed guy and instead of the regular soundbyte I get Walker almost gasping for air after beating the shit out of this guy saying "kill.....confirmed".

Think that was when I could see he was losing his mind.

TOGSolid

I tried the demo (PC) but even with the sensitivity bottomed out it was still stupid twitchy. Did anyone else run into that problem? If so, does the full game do the same thing? I've heard nothing but good things about this game but playing the demo with my crosshair moving at lightspeed kinda put me off.

Archsorcerer

Damn, I might have to pick this up.

Yesterday I finished Ghost Recon: FS campaign. Some of the characters were interesting but it was a bad story. It just felt like a few decent episodes of the The Unit.

If I was playing a Bodark unit I think it would have been a very different campaign.

DrunkMc

TOGSolid wrote: »

I tried the demo (PC) but even with the sensitivity bottomed out it was still stupid twitchy. Did anyone else run into that problem? If so, does the full game do the same thing? I've heard nothing but good things about this game but playing the demo with my crosshair moving at lightspeed kinda put me off.

Controls were fine for me! Played the whole thing with Mouse + KB with no problems.

cloudeagle

Man. The more I hear about this, and how it actually makes you think about the consequences of war rather than simply being a dudebro thing, the more I think I need to play it.

Medium Dave

Heisenberg wrote: »

Finished. Probably the most important modern military shooter ever made, if for nothing else than to give the average gamer some perspective. It was a completely righteous counterpoint to everything Call of Duty stands for, almost a direct attack on these types of games while being one itself on the surface. I would feel bad for playing through it if I wasn't so aware of the artistic intent.

Some thoughts:

The ending was sadly predictable with it all being in his head, along with the somewhat on the nose delivery of Conrad actually just being a representation of the people who made the game. What I really liked, though, was all the subtle meta stuff along the way. Like the minigun sequence when the main guy decided to take down the tower - your minigun stops overheating. Or the strobe room where the statues started moving, and when that one dead teammate in chapter 14 comes out as the heavy and if he kills you you wake up from a nightmare and fight the heavy again as a regular dude. Or the intro helicopter sequence being identically repeated near the end of the game, which not only worked within the game narrative but as a statement against the repetitive and dehumanizing on-rails sequences in every shooter game.

My only complaint is the illusion of choice, though

the true choice is whether to keep playing or not

, so that doesn't even really hold too much ground. A really brilliant and intellectual game, definitely Game of the Year for me. The gameplay itself was nothing special, but that's kind of the point.

Ok, so let me ask this. You're at least the 2nd person to say game of the year for this because, DESPITE the gameplay. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick or start a fight, I'm just legitimately curious. Wouldn't a video game need to have better than average gameplay to be considered a GOTY contender? Isn't that what defines it as being a video game and not just a movie about soldiers? Now, don't get me wrong. I liked the game. I thought they did good things with the story and characters and all, despite cribbing liberally from many prominent sources. But I only "played" the game to get to that. If I were unaware of the story stuff lurking in the game, I'd have returned it. To me, that removes it from GOTY contention, for me. I want to be playing the game all the time forever and ever to think, "Say, this might be one of the greatest games of the year." Shit, I turned it off the first night after ...The Horror in disgust (not gross out, but eye rolling disgust) and watched Apocalypse Now, instead.

Let me ask this, too. Would you consider games like To the Moon and Dear Esther as GOTY contenders, too? They're both serious, story driven, emotional "games" but without much gameplay.

My take, and again I'm not trying to be a dick, I just think this can power some interesting discussion, a game needs to hit that sweet intersection of gameplay, story, characters and fun for me to think it's worth being touted as one of the best games of the year. Same with movies. I don't think a movie with boring, retread story but packed to the rafters with amazing acting is the "best" movie. Very good, maybe, but not the best. I feel that a videogame should combine everything and not just Column B and C, forget about A for now, guys. Portal 2 is a prime example, in my book. It's got the fun gameplay, the great characters and the amazing voice work that ties everything together.

TPSou

Could anyone detail (in spoilers) what changes depending on decisions made?

SyphonBlue

Alright, I beat this game but I am really confused.

How much of this game was in your head? Who was the actual leader of the 33rd, since it looked like Walker had been dead for weeks? Why would your team even still be following you at all after you just bombed the shit out of civilians and then saw you talking to yourself? Was the entire last half of the game after the bombing made up in your head?

Big Classy

The gameplay is above average, I don't get that criticism. It feels solid.

Farleyman

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Alright, I beat this game but I am really confused.

How much of this game was in your head? Who was the actual leader of the 33rd, since it looked like Walker had been dead for weeks? Why would your team even still be following you at all after you just bombed the shit out of civilians and then saw you talking to yourself? Was the entire last half of the game after the bombing made up in your head?

I'm not entirely sure how many of the conversations Walker has with Konrad actually happened out loud. Judging from the flashbacks, the initial one where Walker picks up the radio only seems to be partly out loud, what with how the squad start questioning how he managed to get hold of Konrad rather than the actual conversation material. Then with the 'execution' choice, the flashback seems to shows that Walker just froze up and looked at the bodies for a time, then, depending upon your choice, shot one. Some of the other situations seem to point that out too, but those two in particular really stood out to me.

mere_immortal

Farleyman wrote: »

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Alright, I beat this game but I am really confused.

How much of this game was in your head? Who was the actual leader of the 33rd, since it looked like Walker had been dead for weeks? Why would your team even still be following you at all after you just bombed the shit out of civilians and then saw you talking to yourself? Was the entire last half of the game after the bombing made up in your head?

I'm not entirely sure how many of the conversations Walker has with Konrad actually happened out loud. Judging from the flashbacks, the initial one where Walker picks up the radio only seems to be partly out loud, what with how the squad start questioning how he managed to get hold of Konrad rather than the actual conversation material. Then with the 'execution' choice, the flashback seems to shows that Walker just froze up and looked at the bodies for a time, then, depending upon your choice, shot one. Some of the other situations seem to point that out too, but those two in particular really stood out to me.

The judgement choice is a weird one now that I think about it, because I chose to shoot the soldiers from the 33rd instead of either of the guys, but in the flashback there are no soldiers at the side of the road.

SyphonBlue

mere_immortal wrote: »

Farleyman wrote: »

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Alright, I beat this game but I am really confused.

How much of this game was in your head? Who was the actual leader of the 33rd, since it looked like Walker had been dead for weeks? Why would your team even still be following you at all after you just bombed the shit out of civilians and then saw you talking to yourself? Was the entire last half of the game after the bombing made up in your head?

I'm not entirely sure how many of the conversations Walker has with Konrad actually happened out loud. Judging from the flashbacks, the initial one where Walker picks up the radio only seems to be partly out loud, what with how the squad start questioning how he managed to get hold of Konrad rather than the actual conversation material. Then with the 'execution' choice, the flashback seems to shows that Walker just froze up and looked at the bodies for a time, then, depending upon your choice, shot one. Some of the other situations seem to point that out too, but those two in particular really stood out to me.

The judgement choice is a weird one now that I think about it, because I chose to shoot the soldiers from the 33rd instead of either of the guys, but in the flashback there are no soldiers at the side of the road.

Yes, this.

Johnny Chopsocky

The ending hit me pretty good, because of the organic choices involved.

You get multiple endings. Some of which are minor alterations based on your gameplay choices throughout the game (if you are less brutal, you appear cleaner and sound more sane), some of which are completely different down to Walker living or dying. However, in the context of the game they all make sense and don't feel like the developers going "okay, now choose".

BIG SPOILERS

it almost feels like all of the ending choices are the player deciding what to do with Walker, who has basically been your unwilling puppet the entire time. Mercy kill, a trip home or surrender to your shooter instincts and make him go full-Kurtz

Lawndart

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Alright, I beat this game but I am really confused.

How much of this game was in your head? Who was the actual leader of the 33rd, since it looked like Walker had been dead for weeks? Why would your team even still be following you at all after you just bombed the shit out of civilians and then saw you talking to yourself? Was the entire last half of the game after the bombing made up in your head?

Ending spoilers, etc.:

Maybe I was confused as well, but I assumed that Radioman was the actual leader of the 33rd, presenting himself as the "voice" of Konrad. I think there's an intel item that spells out how, when he was alive, Konrad didn't want to communicate directly with his troops or something like that.

I don't think the entire second half of the game is in Walker's head, but that he's embellishing what's essentially a series of war crimes (the destruction of the water supply) and a pointless killing spree, turning it into some heroic journey of redemption.

Edit, more ending and thematic spoilers:

I'm pretty sure the reason your squadmates keep following you is that, well, that's what soldiers are supposed to do. Follow orders. There are several scenes where one or both of them question exactly what the fuck it is you're ordering them to do, but in the end their training wins out even when they're following a crazy asshole who winds up killing thousands of people, including civilians, for absolutely no good reason. More meta-commentary on the military shooter genre, I guess. If either one of them had said "no", things would have been better.

SyphonBlue

Lawndart wrote: »

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Alright, I beat this game but I am really confused.

How much of this game was in your head? Who was the actual leader of the 33rd, since it looked like Walker had been dead for weeks? Why would your team even still be following you at all after you just bombed the shit out of civilians and then saw you talking to yourself? Was the entire last half of the game after the bombing made up in your head?

Ending spoilers, etc.:

Maybe I was confused as well, but I assumed that Radioman was the actual leader of the 33rd, presenting himself as the "voice" of Konrad. I think there's an intel item that spells out how, when he was alive, Konrad didn't want to communicate directly with his troops or something like that.

I don't think the entire second half of the game is in Walker's head, but that he's embellishing what's essentially a series of war crimes (the destruction of the water supply) and a pointless killing spree, turning it into some heroic journey of redemption.

/quote]

Hm...that makes a lot of sense.

kal

Did anyone find a way to make the button prompts actually show keyboard buttons instead of the 360 pad? It was a real pain in the ass going through the beginning having to stop every 10 seconds to check which button I should be hitting. I guess it could because I have my controller plugged in but I'll be damned if i'm gonna disconnect it every time for this one game when it should either just recognize it or at least give me a menu setting.