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[PATV] Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - Extra Credits Season 4, Ep. 17: Politics

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited June 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
image[PATV] Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - Extra Credits Season 4, Ep. 17: Politics

This week, we offer a handy guide to making your voice heard in U.S. politics (with special guest)!<br /> Come discuss this topic in the <a href="http://extra-credits.net/episodes/politics/#discuss&quot; target="_blank">forums</a>!

Read the full story here

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Posts

  • AdmiralMemoAdmiralMemo Trekkie Extraordinaire Baltimore, Maryland, USARegistered User regular
    I'd like to be heard, and I do try to make my voice heard, but there's a problem: I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one. Therefore, I'm locked out of doing one of your suggestions.

    Also, I live in Baltimore City, which is over 70% Democratic. If I vote Democrat, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Republican, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Mickey Mouse, the Democrat gets in. I still vote, for the principal of the matter, but I know my vote doesn't really count in the huge bucket since the largely ignorant masses that populate the city are voting Democrat in such numbers that it's been shown statistically that only if EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTER actually goes to vote and votes Republican does the Republican even have a chance of winning. So, there's no real contest in Baltimore City, and it saddens and infuriates me.

  • shadowKidshadowKid Registered User new member
    As a Canadian thinking about how about to apply this video to my life, it got me thinking about how the average person learns how to reach out. Government is an important example of this, but I'm more interested in how games can teach people how to impact their world in a positive way.

  • PedroviPedrovi Registered User new member
    Politics and games will become more enmeshed as time goes on. Getting involved as gamers now will help the process. As the "core demographic" of gamers age, we will find that the politicians that represent us, will be more like us. The politician they have guesting in this episode is (relatively) young for his position in government. Talk to folks aged 50 plus about what their view on gaming is. Responses I commonly receive liken it to a hobby, or even a toy. As this older generation phases out of political power gaming will be more "accepted" by the younger generation that ends up with the power to regulate or censor. I believe that this will create a government that will understand, that for many, it is art, a passion, a way of life. If we can reach this point maybe we can get past the alarmist flare-ups of violence linked to gaming and the subsequent censorship of the medium that we love.

  • drambledramble Registered User new member
    My internal monologue reaction only moments ago:

    "Wait what huh? That's my representative! Omagosh!"

    Jared Polis has now been on the Colbert Report and Extra Credits. Apparently other people are less happy with their elected officials, me I'm in love.

  • vonOhzuvonOhzu Registered User new member
    I was ecstatic when I thought this was going to be about politic (as themes) in video games. This was fine, I'm glad the episode wasn't trapped by the platitude about money in politic. At the end of the day what politicians really want is your attention, and on that note there's no overestimating the power of a well formatted, and coherent business letter.

  • rangelzrangelz Registered User new member
    I Have big concern for the upcoming presidential election. The Day of the election is the same day that Halo 4 comes out!, I am concerned that many gamers are not going to vote because they are going to be stuck at home playing. Can you guys help bring this to the attention of the community. Am I just getting worry for nothing? or could Halo 4 have an effect on the outcome of the next presidential election?

  • evets90evets90 Registered User new member
    On the contrary:

    "I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created." --George Carlin

  • curintederycurintedery Registered User new member
    Well, I live in Australia, where voting is mandatory and politics is largely irrelevant. There is no where near the gap between the two sides (In Australia they are named Liberal and Labor) and they are both so close to the middle that it doesn't matter. And people care so little about politics that last election they had to move the debate so it didn't get shown at the same time as the finale of Masterchef (Like, seriously: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10696599). Still, this was an interesting viewpoint.

  • MizuotakuMizuotaku Registered User new member
    I am one who does vote, and yes I can see how it may look one-sided to the point that many do not think that their vote even matters. But here is the Ironic part of this, more Americans vote for their "American Idol" than most do for any elected member of state.
    As a student of Game Design and an avid voter, I say many have died for your right to vote and as a man of honor I cannot let their deaths be in vain. Nor can I stand to see utter stupidity in my nation. If we as a nation cannot stand together and unite for the common good, then this nation will fall, it may not be now or for many years to come. Rome did burn and I do pray that we will not meet the same fate. But here I go ranting on, sorry.
    Godspeed,
    Mizuotaku

  • WolvenSpectreWolvenSpectre Saskatchewan, CanadaRegistered User regular
    For Canadians you can find your MP's contact information Here:
    http://www.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/MemberByPostalCode.aspx?Menu=HOC

    You can conctact the Prime Minister's Office using the information here:
    http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/contact.asp

    To find out how to contact your MLA check out your province's/territory's website under "Goverment of" wherever you are.

    Also check with the Post Office as many types of correspondence to government officials through the mail is free of charge.

  • ToastyMozartToastyMozart Registered User new member
    Thanks for the info, I'll make sure to keep an eye on the ways I can make my voice heard.

    Also, in regard to the merchandise situation, why not start with the green "G" T-shirt (or long sleeve shirt) with brown sleeves?

  • fayers89fayers89 Registered User new member
    The place to find you MP's in the UK is http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

  • JhonJhon BrusselsRegistered User new member
    edited June 2012
    For Europeans it's more complicated, almost each country has its system, but you can still use the "Political Memory" tool of LQDN to find who's representing your country at the European level, check on what they voted (see behind their promesses !), and adjust your votes as well as contacting them.

    They actually DO reply most of the time, either their office staff or even themselves. Takes a bit of time, but as the episode said, make it personnal, and they'll reply (mostly) personnally too. By the way, there are still two steps on the ACTA (for US : that's our version is SOPA/PIPA, but aimed at customs as well as internet stuff) coming, it's the right time to contact them.

    As for the episode, it sure was different from usual, but I didn't mind. Its well-done, practical and motivationnal.

    Jhon on
  • VystVyst Registered User new member
    edited June 2012
    At the risk of being labeled a nut, I'm posting Dean Clifford, anyway:

    Dean Clifford

    Vyst on
  • spockvsegonspockvsegon Registered User new member
    Sorry to be "that guy," but the college in Oxford Ohio is Miami University. The University of Miami is in Miami Florida.

    On the bright side though, this is helpful as I'm currently trying to prevent passage of a state bill in Ohio that's already cleared the house. I've called and written my county's senator. For the record I'm trying to stop a bill that would make it a 4th degree felony to own a car with hidden compartments, on the grounds that people have the right to customize their own property and so long as they aren't using said compartments for anything illegal, it shouldn't be unlawful to have them.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    evets90 wrote: »
    On the contrary:

    "I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created." --George Carlin
    I hope one day you realize that quoting comedians as an informed or intelligent argument is neither of those, and is simply the kind of parroting we need less of when it comes to voters. When you have an opinion of your own, please share it.

    The general assumption that an area is wholly or mostly on one side of the political spectrum or the other is misinformed. In general, most people will vote for the person they think best represents their interests, regardless of party. Which is why you find middle ground republicans in larger cities, middle ground democrats in rural areas and a mixture in between. A republican in a big city is basically the equivalent of a democrat in a small town. Different issues and different demographics mean different representatives. Democrat or Republican is less a division in local politics than we recognize, because we assume the parties are the same and uniform wherever we go.



    As an aside.
    As a soldier, please do not misconstrue any future death of mine as " dieing for your right to vote " unless I do it guarding a voting booth on US soil on election day.

    Dedwrekka on
  • KetsubanKetsuban Registered User new member
    The problem with "if you don't vote you can't complain" is that the vast majority of votes just plain don't matter. If I vote and the candidate I voted for doesn't get the most votes, I've just wasted my vote. Under virtually any system other than First Past The Post, my vote is guaranteed to matter at least a little bit, but while I'm still writing on a piece of paper that is virtually guaranteed not to matter, I'm going to keep drawing a penis on the ballot paper.

  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    Ketsuban wrote: »
    The problem with "if you don't vote you can't complain" is that the vast majority of votes just plain don't matter. If I vote and the candidate I voted for doesn't get the most votes, I've just wasted my vote. Under virtually any system other than First Past The Post, my vote is guaranteed to matter at least a little bit, but while I'm still writing on a piece of paper that is virtually guaranteed not to matter, I'm going to keep drawing a penis on the ballot paper.

    It matters a great deal more in local elections where people don't bother to show up (outside of presidential elections every 4 years). Cumulatively, all those other elections have a much greater impact on your day to day life than the man in the oval office ever will.

  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Listen, while you may not think the vote counts in a state that predominantly swings a certain way, you would be surprised by how much it DOES count. I'm from Omaha... last election enough voted here that we got the first Democratic electoral vote in this state since Lyndon B. Johnson back in 1964. While I get we have a split electoral vote system here, and is only one of a handful of states that work like that, it's proof that you CAN change your state's party lines if enough care to try.

    wbee62u815wj.png
  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    He's not wrong that first past the post is probably one of the worst voting systems we could have implemented. It guarantees a two party system which isn't the most healthy thing. The electoral system is even worse though. It should not be possible (even theoretically) for a president to get elected while carrying less than 22% of the popular vote.

    Sticks on
  • HayekattackHayekattack Registered User regular
    Great video. I have and do work in politics as a political staffer (Canada Federal).

    People are correct to generally assert that one vote is worthless. However the danger of that apathy is huge, it allows relatively small well organized groups to hold a disproportional amount of power. Put it a better way just because you stopped organizing and voting does not mean people you disagree with also stopped. Politics currently is not about grand coalitions or going to get new voters it is about mobilizing your bass and supporters we rarely focus on converting voters we after the ones who already agree with us then getting them out to vote. Unless you give a political party a reason to care(votes) they will ignore you as you ignore them.


    I also agree with the advice given by the Member of Congress it is bang on. It is generally a policy of Ministries to ignore petitions and forum letters for the reason he stated. Most letter that are sent are responded to, however another tip do not use vulgar language otherwise we think just think you are a troll and throw it in the garbage and not send long winded essays no one is going to read them fully.

  • medv4380medv4380 Registered User regular
    I think the best way to get out the vote is to change voter registration to Same Day Voter Registration. I'm in Idaho and we've had same day voter registration for a while and of the few stats that have that setup their turnout is 12 percent higher than the national average. Our turn out only dropped this last primary because Republicans forced everyone to declare their affiliation, and people just didn't want to do that step.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    He's not wrong that first past the post is probably one of the worst voting systems we could have implemented. It guarantees a two party system which isn't the most healthy thing. The electoral system is even worse though. It should not be possible (even theoretically) for a president to get elected while carrying less than 22% of the popular vote.
    Actually the idea was to never have parties. It was supposed to be a system where you vote on the merit and personal politics of the individual, not the party line. At least that's what the meat of Washington's speech upon leaving was about.

  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Sticks wrote: »
    He's not wrong that first past the post is probably one of the worst voting systems we could have implemented. It guarantees a two party system which isn't the most healthy thing. The electoral system is even worse though. It should not be possible (even theoretically) for a president to get elected while carrying less than 22% of the popular vote.
    Actually the idea was to never have parties. It was supposed to be a system where you vote on the merit and personal politics of the individual, not the party line. At least that's what the meat of Washington's speech upon leaving was about.

    They were unfortunately naive in this regard. Groups are inherently stronger than individuals. People are naturally going to band together to get what they want accomplished.

  • HayekattackHayekattack Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Ketsuban wrote: »
    Under virtually any system other than First Past The Post, my vote is guaranteed to matter at least a little bit, but while I'm still writing on a piece of paper that is virtually guaranteed not to matter,.


    It is a trade off. All of the Anglo Democracies expect America have more then two significant parties and they all use a FPTP system or some variation. Also every system that use something other then FPTP tend to have rigid party structures and centralized control, typically meaning the local candidates mean next to nothing and there is a lot less variance of opinions in the political parties.

    American politicians are perhaps one of the least partisan in the world. I willing to bet American politicians are far more likely to vote across party lines them any other Western democracy and that is great thing and only can be produced by FPTP.




    Hayekattack on
  • AutolykosAutolykos Registered User new member
    "I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one."
    WTF?!? They actually require you to say how you're going to vote when you register? Last time we had that in Germany was roughly 70 years ago...

  • twilightdusktwilightdusk Registered User regular
    "....and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries" So what you're saying is that Maryland essentially has a law enforcing the two-party system?

  • TleilaxuTleilaxu Registered User regular
    Well, I live in Australia, where voting is mandatory and politics is largely irrelevant. There is no where near the gap between the two sides (In Australia they are named Liberal and Labor) and they are both so close to the middle that it doesn't matter. And people care so little about politics that last election they had to move the debate so it didn't get shown at the same time as the finale of Masterchef (Like, seriously: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10696599). Still, this was an interesting viewpoint.

    Can someone explain to me why Australia loves Masterchef so much? I don't get it: particularly the eighty-plus episodes per season.

    checkpointangrybirds.gif
  • CerraxCerrax Registered User regular
    Quite a few states have a "closed" primary, which means only the two major parties (Dem/Rep) can vote for their respective party members. I was deeply upset this year because my state (Pennsylvania) does this as well. Luckily, a few friends of mine who are Republicans and were undecided gave me a voice and voted for my favorite candidate.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    "....and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries" So what you're saying is that Maryland essentially has a law enforcing the two-party system?

    No, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a primary is. The primary is where the parties decide on who will be their standard bearer in the general election, which is where the actual seat holder is elected. There are three types of primaries in the US:

    Closed primary: Restricted to registered members of the party only. This is the system that the poster was complaining about, and it's their own fault, as they refuse to pick a side.
    Open primary: Any person can vote, but you have to choose which party's primary you will participate in. I live in an open primary state, and when I voted last week, I was given both the Republican and Democratic ballots, and chose one to complete.
    Jungle primary: Only used in CA, this is a primary only in name, as all candidates are put into a single election regardless of party. The top two candidates move on to the general, regardless of affiliation. In effect, CA has a general election with an automatic mandatory runoff election.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    Autolykos wrote: »
    "I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one."
    WTF?!? They actually require you to say how you're going to vote when you register? Last time we had that in Germany was roughly 70 years ago...

    Primaries are just our way of deciding which particular individual will run as the party's candidate for office. Winning the primary does not win you any public office in itself, and there's nothing to prevent someone who lost a primary from entering the general election and winning (other than our political culture that is... third party candidates very rarely win).

  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    Autolykos wrote: »
    "I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one."
    WTF?!? They actually require you to say how you're going to vote when you register? Last time we had that in Germany was roughly 70 years ago...

    No, they require you to be a member of a party to vote in that party's primary. You're still free to vote for whomever you want in the general election. I imagine the ostensible reason is so you don't have Republicans crashing the Democratic primary to vote for a weaker candidate, or vice versa.

    I'm not arguing that it isn't stupid, I'm just saying it's not as stupid as you're making it out to be.

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    Autolykos wrote: »
    "I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one."
    WTF?!? They actually require you to say how you're going to vote when you register? Last time we had that in Germany was roughly 70 years ago...

    No, they require you to be a member of a party to vote in that party's primary. You're still free to vote for whomever you want in the general election. I imagine the ostensible reason is so you don't have Republicans crashing the Democratic primary to vote for a weaker candidate, or vice versa.

    I'm not arguing that it isn't stupid, I'm just saying it's not as stupid as you're making it out to be.

    Well, no, its the parties using their First Amendment right to freedom of association. And the point is that the original poster needs to figure out if the warm and fuzzies he or she gets from being Broderite is worth not having a voice in how one party chooses its candidates.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    Autolykos wrote: »
    "I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one."
    WTF?!? They actually require you to say how you're going to vote when you register? Last time we had that in Germany was roughly 70 years ago...

    No, they require you to be a member of a party to vote in that party's primary. You're still free to vote for whomever you want in the general election. I imagine the ostensible reason is so you don't have Republicans crashing the Democratic primary to vote for a weaker candidate, or vice versa.

    I'm not arguing that it isn't stupid, I'm just saying it's not as stupid as you're making it out to be.

    Well, no, its the parties using their First Amendment right to freedom of association. And the point is that the original poster needs to figure out if the warm and fuzzies he or she gets from being Broderite is worth not having a voice in how one party chooses its candidates.

    I'm not sure what part of my remark you're disagreeing with.

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Ketsuban wrote: »
    Under virtually any system other than First Past The Post, my vote is guaranteed to matter at least a little bit, but while I'm still writing on a piece of paper that is virtually guaranteed not to matter,.


    It is a trade off. All of the Anglo Democracies expect America have more then two significant parties and they all use a FPTP system or some variation. Also every system that use something other then FPTP tend to have rigid party structures and centralized control, typically meaning the local candidates mean next to nothing and there is a lot less variance of opinions in the political parties.

    American politicians are perhaps one of the least partisan in the world. I willing to bet American politicians are far more likely to vote across party lines them any other Western democracy and that is great thing and only can be produced by FPTP.

    Well, Canada used to have lots of parties:

    Left: Liberals, New Democrats
    Right: Conservative, Canadian Alliance.
    There are some others (Green party), but they don't get any seats in this system, despite getting a not-insignificant percentage of the vote.

    The Liberals were winning majorities a lot, so the Conservatives and Canadian Alliance merged into the Progressive Conservative party

    Left: Left: Liberals, New Democrats
    Right: Progressive Conservatives

    Now the conservatives are winning majorities a lot, despite the three major parties getting relatively similar numbers of votes. And there's been talk about the Liberals and NDP merging, though it hasn't happened yet.

    So the guaranteeing 2 parties thing is more over the long run- FPTP encourages parties to merge together if they are similar enough, because 2 parties each getting 10% of the vote get 0-ish seats, while those 2 parties combined might get 20 seats with their 20% of the vote etc.

    Right now the conservatives don't have to get the majority of the votes, they just have to get more votes than either of the other parties seperately in the majority of ridings. Considering the other 2 have to fight for the left-leaning votes, and the conservatives are the only real right-leaning alternative, they get a majority, even if they only have 35% of the votes or whatever (pulling that number out of my rear, sorry).

    If the Liberals and NDPs merged together, the conservatives would need to get more votes than the SUM of the two parties were getting in each riding, which is alot tougher. So eventually they'll merge, if they want to win. And then there will be two, as was prophecized.

    El Skid on
  • T3HN4T3RT3HN4T3R ColoradoRegistered User new member
    Outstanding presentation guys....thanks!

  • gpsdevicegpsdevice Registered User new member
    Who would've thought that I would actually be glad in the end that my teacher registered me to vote just to show the class how to do it. I guess now my voice actually can matter.

  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    Also, I live in Baltimore City, which is over 70% Democratic. If I vote Democrat, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Republican, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Mickey Mouse, the Democrat gets in. I still vote, for the principal of the matter, but I know my vote doesn't really count in the huge bucket since the largely ignorant masses that populate the city are voting Democrat in such numbers that it's been shown statistically that only if EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTER actually goes to vote and votes Republican does the Republican even have a chance of winning. So, there's no real contest in Baltimore City, and it saddens and infuriates me.

    Your vote counts exactly as much as all the other votes does: it counts for one.

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
  • AuriniAurini Registered User regular
    This video is hopelessly naive.

    Even though SOPA was blocked, the very next day Megavideo was shut down. The bill itself was just a smokescreen for an action that had been planned long in advance; as it turns out, the legislation wasn't even needed. The federal government in the US will do what it pleases, when it pleases (just look at how many illegal wars Obama has started, without Senate approval). Let's not forget that the owner of Megavideo was sentenced to 50 years, for defying the oligarchs. Absurd.

    Then there's the fact that you keep advocating Democracy; mass democracy is a form of communism, and the Founding Fathers recognized how deadly it is. They were trying to form a Republic, to prevent a Democracy. Democracy inevitably decays to a welfare state, where Group A votes themselves the resources of Group B. Economic and social collapse inevitably follow.

    And then you act as if voting for a political party has the capacity to change anything. The POTUS is a figurehead; the real nodes of power are the Universities which train the media (and thus control information), the Civil Service which is ultimately in control of all legislation, and the military/industrial complex which regulate all small businesses out of existence.

    There is a massive economic collapse coming, a social collapse, and an energy deficit; campaigning for Romney isn't going to change a damned thing. Voting is nothing more than fiddling while Rome burns.

  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    Aurini wrote: »
    This video is hopelessly naive.

    Even though SOPA was blocked, the very next day Megavideo was shut down. The bill itself was just a smokescreen for an action that had been planned long in advance; as it turns out, the legislation wasn't even needed. The federal government in the US will do what it pleases, when it pleases (just look at how many illegal wars Obama has started, without Senate approval). Let's not forget that the owner of Megavideo was sentenced to 50 years, for defying the oligarchs. Absurd.

    Then there's the fact that you keep advocating Democracy; mass democracy is a form of communism, and the Founding Fathers recognized how deadly it is. They were trying to form a Republic, to prevent a Democracy. Democracy inevitably decays to a welfare state, where Group A votes themselves the resources of Group B. Economic and social collapse inevitably follow.

    And then you act as if voting for a political party has the capacity to change anything. The POTUS is a figurehead; the real nodes of power are the Universities which train the media (and thus control information), the Civil Service which is ultimately in control of all legislation, and the military/industrial complex which regulate all small businesses out of existence.

    There is a massive economic collapse coming, a social collapse, and an energy deficit; campaigning for Romney isn't going to change a damned thing. Voting is nothing more than fiddling while Rome burns.

    cupcakeseverywhere.jpg

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
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