We joke about this a lot, but the reality is that your lawn is private property, and you have every right not to have people on it.
Perhaps a better way to address the situation is to ask why someone has such a problem with people being on their lawn. Extending one's sense of self to the grass surrounding one's house is strange.
Locke? That is why I care about property rights so very much. I put forth my labor to acquire or make a thing, and if you deprive me of its use or enjoyment, then you have taken my labor without compensation, and I don't care for being enslaved.
While you should have the right to tell people to leave your property, some kids standing on it isn't slavery.
There are multiple meanings of slavery. He's "slave" due to not being able to enjoy a product he's purchased because someone else is using it. I would be slave to someone's will if they decided to steal my car and go for a joy ride, for instance.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
We joke about this a lot, but the reality is that your lawn is private property, and you have every right not to have people on it.
Perhaps a better way to address the situation is to ask why someone has such a problem with people being on their lawn. Extending one's sense of self to the grass surrounding one's house is strange.
Locke? That is why I care about property rights so very much. I put forth my labor to acquire or make a thing, and if you deprive me of its use or enjoyment, then you have taken my labor without compensation, and I don't care for being enslaved.
That's not being enslaved. In fact, it reminds me of how a Libertarian would react about property rights. It's logical to care about your property and it's a bad thing to have people steal or destroy it but equating that to anyone who steps on your lawn is going overboard IMO.
"all teenagers hanging out in groups in store parking lots" is a subset very unlike "all black people". We're judging based on their behavior. Check your lazy rhetorical device and stop being a goose.
Really? So if there were a bunch of 70 year old people together in a group in a store parking lot, you would judge them the same way? Judging them apparently based on their behavior of standing near each other in a store parking lot.
Remember, no other behavior was specifically mentioned when this was brought up, any descriptions of behavior were added on later, based on assumptions of them being teenagers. CycloneRanger made the assumption that because they were teenagers, that they were obnoxious, and would shout, insult, and threaten. He didn't say that he would avoid places that had groups of people that were obnoxious, shouted, insulted, and threatened outside them. He said that he would avoid places that had groups of teenagers around them, assuming that such groups would meet that criteria ("Have you ever interacted with teenagers?").
I don't like groups of teenagers because they are loud, obnoxious and painfully unselfaware of how obnoxious and stupid their behavior comes across. My wife and I were in a restaurant by NYU once (the peanut butter and jelly place, which is awesome) and it was extremely obvious the kids eating at the table next to us were college freshmen who just moved into their dorm, based on their (loud and so overheard) conversation. It was funny to hear them all posturing, trying to look cool without knowing anything about each other (part of the humor was that some of them looked like "cool kids" and some clearly did not, so the group did not seem likely to last). Younger teenagers in groups seem to be that foolishness writ large, only much louder. They do stupid things to show how brave or outgoing they are. They intentionally curse very loud in public to show they just don't care what people think (of course, they do). The whole thing is exhausting and annoying. Better to avoid them in favor of people that actually act like they are part of our civilization.
You know that all teenagers don't act like this all the time, right? So you encountered some teenage assholes. News at 11. Teenagers are actually part of civilization. They're not aliens or anything. It's fine to avoid them in those circumstances, I'd do it too, but you don't need to judge every teenager by them. Nor is that behavior limited to teenagers, it's just done less in public by adults.
Noone has a right in my property but me (well, the state does in certain cases). If I don't want kids running on my lawn, how is that unreasonable? Especially since that usually equates to them being loud outside my house, which is not something I should have to deal with.
Like I said before, I don't care if there is a group of a few friends somewhere. I don't care about kids walking around in the mall or on the street or whatever either. It is just when the do things that people normally don't do, like congregate in large groups in parking lots or outside stores that I object to.
We joke about this a lot, but the reality is that your lawn is private property, and you have every right not to have people on it.
Perhaps a better way to address the situation is to ask why someone has such a problem with people being on their lawn. Extending one's sense of self to the grass surrounding one's house is strange.
Locke? That is why I care about property rights so very much. I put forth my labor to acquire or make a thing, and if you deprive me of its use or enjoyment, then you have taken my labor without compensation, and I don't care for being enslaved.
That's not being enslaved. In fact, it reminds me of how a Libertarian would react about property rights. It's logical to care about your property and it's a bad thing to have people steal or destroy it but equating that to anyone who steps on your lawn is going overboard IMO.
"all teenagers hanging out in groups in store parking lots" is a subset very unlike "all black people". We're judging based on their behavior. Check your lazy rhetorical device and stop being a goose.
Really? So if there were a bunch of 70 year old people together in a group in a store parking lot, you would judge them the same way? Judging them apparently based on their behavior of standing near each other in a store parking lot.
Remember, no other behavior was specifically mentioned when this was brought up, any descriptions of behavior were added on later, based on assumptions of them being teenagers. CycloneRanger made the assumption that because they were teenagers, that they were obnoxious, and would shout, insult, and threaten. He didn't say that he would avoid places that had groups of people that were obnoxious, shouted, insulted, and threatened outside them. He said that he would avoid places that had groups of teenagers around them, assuming that such groups would meet that criteria ("Have you ever interacted with teenagers?").
I don't like groups of teenagers because they are loud, obnoxious and painfully unselfaware of how obnoxious and stupid their behavior comes across. My wife and I were in a restaurant by NYU once (the peanut butter and jelly place, which is awesome) and it was extremely obvious the kids eating at the table next to us were college freshmen who just moved into their dorm, based on their (loud and so overheard) conversation. It was funny to hear them all posturing, trying to look cool without knowing anything about each other (part of the humor was that some of them looked like "cool kids" and some clearly did not, so the group did not seem likely to last). Younger teenagers in groups seem to be that foolishness writ large, only much louder. They do stupid things to show how brave or outgoing they are. They intentionally curse very loud in public to show they just don't care what people think (of course, they do). The whole thing is exhausting and annoying. Better to avoid them in favor of people that actually act like they are part of our civilization.
You know that all teenagers don't act like this all the time, right? So you encountered some teenage assholes. News at 11. Teenagers are actually part of civilization. They're not aliens or anything. It's fine to avoid them in those circumstances, I'd do it too, but you don't need to judge every teenager by them. Nor is that behavior limited to teenagers, it's just done less in public by adults.
Noone has a right in my property but me (well, the state does in certain cases). If I don't want kids running on my lawn, how is that unreasonable? Especially since that usually equates to them being loud outside my house, which is not something I should have to deal with.
Never said I disagreed with that. It was your hyperbole comparing to slavery which sounds ridiculous.
Like I said before, I don't care if there is a group of a few friends somewhere. I don't care about kids walking around in the mall or on the street or whatever either. It is just when the do things that people normally don't do, like congregate in large groups in parking lots or outside stores that I object to.
People have explained why they do that. Just go around them and you'll be fine. Also remember, you were a teenager once. How would you have felt if an adult thought of you back then like you're talking about teenagers now?
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
We joke about this a lot, but the reality is that your lawn is private property, and you have every right not to have people on it.
Perhaps a better way to address the situation is to ask why someone has such a problem with people being on their lawn. Extending one's sense of self to the grass surrounding one's house is strange.
Locke? That is why I care about property rights so very much. I put forth my labor to acquire or make a thing, and if you deprive me of its use or enjoyment, then you have taken my labor without compensation, and I don't care for being enslaved.
That's not being enslaved. In fact, it reminds me of how a Libertarian would react about property rights. It's logical to care about your property and it's a bad thing to have people steal or destroy it but equating that to anyone who steps on your lawn is going overboard IMO.
"all teenagers hanging out in groups in store parking lots" is a subset very unlike "all black people". We're judging based on their behavior. Check your lazy rhetorical device and stop being a goose.
Really? So if there were a bunch of 70 year old people together in a group in a store parking lot, you would judge them the same way? Judging them apparently based on their behavior of standing near each other in a store parking lot.
Remember, no other behavior was specifically mentioned when this was brought up, any descriptions of behavior were added on later, based on assumptions of them being teenagers. CycloneRanger made the assumption that because they were teenagers, that they were obnoxious, and would shout, insult, and threaten. He didn't say that he would avoid places that had groups of people that were obnoxious, shouted, insulted, and threatened outside them. He said that he would avoid places that had groups of teenagers around them, assuming that such groups would meet that criteria ("Have you ever interacted with teenagers?").
I don't like groups of teenagers because they are loud, obnoxious and painfully unselfaware of how obnoxious and stupid their behavior comes across. My wife and I were in a restaurant by NYU once (the peanut butter and jelly place, which is awesome) and it was extremely obvious the kids eating at the table next to us were college freshmen who just moved into their dorm, based on their (loud and so overheard) conversation. It was funny to hear them all posturing, trying to look cool without knowing anything about each other (part of the humor was that some of them looked like "cool kids" and some clearly did not, so the group did not seem likely to last). Younger teenagers in groups seem to be that foolishness writ large, only much louder. They do stupid things to show how brave or outgoing they are. They intentionally curse very loud in public to show they just don't care what people think (of course, they do). The whole thing is exhausting and annoying. Better to avoid them in favor of people that actually act like they are part of our civilization.
You know that all teenagers don't act like this all the time, right? So you encountered some teenage assholes. News at 11. Teenagers are actually part of civilization. They're not aliens or anything. It's fine to avoid them in those circumstances, I'd do it too, but you don't need to judge every teenager by them. Nor is that behavior limited to teenagers, it's just done less in public by adults.
Noone has a right in my property but me (well, the state does in certain cases). If I don't want kids running on my lawn, how is that unreasonable? Especially since that usually equates to them being loud outside my house, which is not something I should have to deal with.
Never said I disagreed with that. It was your hyperbole comparing to slavery which sounds ridiculous.
Like I said before, I don't care if there is a group of a few friends somewhere. I don't care about kids walking around in the mall or on the street or whatever either. It is just when the do things that people normally don't do, like congregate in large groups in parking lots or outside stores that I object to.
People have explained why they do that. Just go around them and you'll be fine. Also remember, you were a teenager once. How would you have felt if an adult thought of you back then like you're talking about teenagers now?
Like he didn't "get" it and my friends and I were doing something novel and important he just didn't understand because we were all special snow flakes having new experiences he couldn't relate to. And I would be absolutely wrong, because all teenagers (including spacekungfuteen) are stupid. As I've gotten older, I have learned that adults really do know best in most cases, and they do "get" what the teens are doing, but correctly recognize that it is dumb.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Also, if you are a teen, please know that you and your girlfriend are probably not the greatest love story ever told, any emotional pain you feel is probably not the worst in history, and your poetry is probably awful.
When I was a teenager, the types of teen that hang out in front of shops and snigger at anyone who goes past absolutely terrified me. I never did that myself.
We joke about this a lot, but the reality is that your lawn is private property, and you have every right not to have people on it.
Perhaps a better way to address the situation is to ask why someone has such a problem with people being on their lawn. Extending one's sense of self to the grass surrounding one's house is strange.
Locke? That is why I care about property rights so very much. I put forth my labor to acquire or make a thing, and if you deprive me of its use or enjoyment, then you have taken my labor without compensation, and I don't care for being enslaved.
That's not being enslaved. In fact, it reminds me of how a Libertarian would react about property rights. It's logical to care about your property and it's a bad thing to have people steal or destroy it but equating that to anyone who steps on your lawn is going overboard IMO.
"all teenagers hanging out in groups in store parking lots" is a subset very unlike "all black people". We're judging based on their behavior. Check your lazy rhetorical device and stop being a goose.
Really? So if there were a bunch of 70 year old people together in a group in a store parking lot, you would judge them the same way? Judging them apparently based on their behavior of standing near each other in a store parking lot.
Remember, no other behavior was specifically mentioned when this was brought up, any descriptions of behavior were added on later, based on assumptions of them being teenagers. CycloneRanger made the assumption that because they were teenagers, that they were obnoxious, and would shout, insult, and threaten. He didn't say that he would avoid places that had groups of people that were obnoxious, shouted, insulted, and threatened outside them. He said that he would avoid places that had groups of teenagers around them, assuming that such groups would meet that criteria ("Have you ever interacted with teenagers?").
I don't like groups of teenagers because they are loud, obnoxious and painfully unselfaware of how obnoxious and stupid their behavior comes across. My wife and I were in a restaurant by NYU once (the peanut butter and jelly place, which is awesome) and it was extremely obvious the kids eating at the table next to us were college freshmen who just moved into their dorm, based on their (loud and so overheard) conversation. It was funny to hear them all posturing, trying to look cool without knowing anything about each other (part of the humor was that some of them looked like "cool kids" and some clearly did not, so the group did not seem likely to last). Younger teenagers in groups seem to be that foolishness writ large, only much louder. They do stupid things to show how brave or outgoing they are. They intentionally curse very loud in public to show they just don't care what people think (of course, they do). The whole thing is exhausting and annoying. Better to avoid them in favor of people that actually act like they are part of our civilization.
You know that all teenagers don't act like this all the time, right? So you encountered some teenage assholes. News at 11. Teenagers are actually part of civilization. They're not aliens or anything. It's fine to avoid them in those circumstances, I'd do it too, but you don't need to judge every teenager by them. Nor is that behavior limited to teenagers, it's just done less in public by adults.
Noone has a right in my property but me (well, the state does in certain cases). If I don't want kids running on my lawn, how is that unreasonable? Especially since that usually equates to them being loud outside my house, which is not something I should have to deal with.
Never said I disagreed with that. It was your hyperbole comparing to slavery which sounds ridiculous.
Like I said before, I don't care if there is a group of a few friends somewhere. I don't care about kids walking around in the mall or on the street or whatever either. It is just when the do things that people normally don't do, like congregate in large groups in parking lots or outside stores that I object to.
People have explained why they do that. Just go around them and you'll be fine. Also remember, you were a teenager once. How would you have felt if an adult thought of you back then like you're talking about teenagers now?
Like he didn't "get" it and my friends and I were doing something novel and important he just didn't understand because we were all special snow flakes having new experiences he couldn't relate to. And I would be absolutely wrong, because all teenagers (including spacekungfuteen) are stupid. As I've gotten older, I have learned that adults really do know best in most cases, and they do "get" what the teens are doing, but correctly recognize that it is dumb.
Also, if you are a teen, please know that you and your girlfriend are probably not the greatest love story ever told, any emotional pain you feel is probably not the worst in history, and your poetry is probably awful.
That's called being a teenager. You grow up and move onto new things. There's nothing wrong with this. It's natural.
When I was in high school we all hung out at the Camera place in the mall because two of my friends worked there, and one of their parents owned it. They were one of the only places in the area that would develop picture with nudity in them. So many fat people take nude photos..... so... many....
SKFM seems the type that if I was walking infront of his house and had to step on his grass to avoid being hit by a car. He would be disgruntled.
No, but if you stepped on my flower and ruined them, I'd expect you to pay for that.
I am actually 100% on your side. My property means you stay tf out. But you just know if someone had to jump on your flowers to avoid certain death they would try to act like they didn't owe you anything, and hopefully they don't step on some roses and get pricked by some thorns because then you're just going to get sued.
If someone jumped on my flowers to avoid certain death I think I can overlook the destruction of a few hundred dollars.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Our place in NZ doesn't have a fence (I miss fences) and is in cul-de-sac where the neighbourhood kids like to play. (was unaware of this since we viewed it during school hours)
So the kids run across our lawn, they leave stuff on the lawn (sandals, socks etc.), they make a mess (muddy hand prints on the car/garage being the new thing since it's been raining a bit)
Is it unreasonable to resent having to clean up after other people's kids on your property?
The goosery in this thread is ridiculous. All teenagers that congregate in groups are obnoxious or threatening? How is that in any way a logical or reasonable assumption?
The goosery in this thread is ridiculous. All teenagers that congregate in groups are obnoxious or threatening? How is that in any way a logical or reasonable assumption?
I don't trust anyone. Yes this means sometimes I avoid groups of black people just like I avoid groups of white people. Or old people. I am not discriminating. Teenagers are especially earning of my ire because they lack a lot of social understanding, nuance, or grace because they're teenagers.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
The goosery in this thread is ridiculous. All teenagers that congregate in groups are obnoxious or threatening? How is that in any way a logical or reasonable assumption?
I don't trust anyone. Yes this means sometimes I avoid groups of black people just like I avoid groups of white people. Or old people. I am not discriminating. Teenagers are especially earning of my ire because they lack a lot of social understanding, nuance, or grace because they're teenagers.
I wonder how our sense of personal property will change once population increases to the point that the current model becomes infeasable.
When exactly would that be? Tokyo has about 11,000 people per square kilometre. New York has 4600. America as a whole has 34. What's the breaking point?
The goosery in this thread is ridiculous. All teenagers that congregate in groups are obnoxious or threatening? How is that in any way a logical or reasonable assumption?
Why should they be congregating in places like store fronts or parking lots? These are not places people are meant to congregate in, to the point where we make it illegal (loitering). If I am parking my car somewhere, I don't want there to be a huge group of young, stupid people who may not respect my property rights (see graffiti) near it. And I don't want to have to push through a huge throng of people who are being loud and generally standing around for not good reason just to go into a store or restaurant. Is this really surprising?
Again, how is it a logical or reasonable assumption to say they're "stupid," "loud," "might not respect your property rights," "are in a throng preventing you from getting into a store," "have no good reason to be standing where they're standing," or are "loitering?" How are any of those tied to being a teenager? You sound like your in-laws right now.
Thejakeman on
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Again, how is it a logical or reasonable assumption to say they're "stupid," "loud," "might not respect your property rights," "are in a throng preventing you from getting into a store," "have no good reason to be standing where they're standing," or are "loitering?" How are any of those tied to being a teenager? You sound like your in-laws right now.
If it makes you feel any better, I avoid most large groups of loud people loitering somewhere for no discernible reasons.
Thought honestly I've only really seen teenagers do this, and it sometimes causes them to do stupid things.
I'm not asking for teenagers to change, or the law to change to accommodate me. I'll just avoid them. Like I avoid rush hour, or lunchtime queues or anything else that I find unpleasant to deal with.
What I would like to be against the law though, is people greeting each other in the departure lanes at airports. yes, yes, you haven't seen your extended family in a while, but please move your luggage and hugging/crying half a dozen peeps off to the side so that people can actually leave.
You're weird to the point that you consider any avoidance of situations comparable to avoidance of racial groups jakeman. If I avoid apples because I don't necessarily like apples, I am fully expecting you to change my post about apples and substitute black people in there.
That's why people are having a hard time connecting with you.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
SKFM seems the type that if I was walking infront of his house and had to step on his grass to avoid being hit by a car. He would be disgruntled.
No, but if you stepped on my flower and ruined them, I'd expect you to pay for that.
So, if someone who lives near you is allergic to your flowers, are you going to pay for their allergy medication?
How is this at all analogous? In the one case, someone damages my property to save themself. In the other, someone is harmed by proximity to my property. To be analogous, my flowers would need to be growing onto your property, and then I would remove them.
The goosery in this thread is ridiculous. All teenagers that congregate in groups are obnoxious or threatening? How is that in any way a logical or reasonable assumption?
Why should they be congregating in places like store fronts or parking lots? These are not places people are meant to congregate in, to the point where we make it illegal (loitering). If I am parking my car somewhere, I don't want there to be a huge group of young, stupid people who may not respect my property rights (see graffiti) near it. And I don't want to have to push through a huge throng of people who are being loud and generally standing around for not good reason just to go into a store or restaurant. Is this really surprising?
Like where? Honestly in our town there were no public spaces we could use, other than one or two tiny parks that weren't close to anything. Everyone just sees teens as annoying shitlords and shoos them away from places, then "upstanding" folks like yourself say "they should be playing sports or studying" and they don't have anywhere to go. Also, the whole process of being an idiot teen is you LEARN how to interact in public. You also are likely to be bad at it initially.
SKFM seems the type that if I was walking infront of his house and had to step on his grass to avoid being hit by a car. He would be disgruntled.
No, but if you stepped on my flower and ruined them, I'd expect you to pay for that.
So, if someone who lives near you is allergic to your flowers, are you going to pay for their allergy medication?
How is this at all analogous? In the one case, someone damages my property to save themself. In the other, someone is harmed by proximity to my property. To be analogous, my flowers would need to be growing onto your property, and then I would remove them.
And the fact that your response to someone surviving possibly serious bodily injury is to worry about your flowers is sickening. And, even from a legal standpoint, since he wasn't responsible for the circumstances leading him onto your flowers, he would not be required to pay for them. The law tends to value human life over property, even if you clearly do not.
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2012
What?
Okay hypothetical time. You're walking through your neighborhood and a car almost hits you, causing you to jump into and destroy a portion of your neighbor's garden. The driver doesn't notice you and continues onward. You did not see his plates or recognize the car. You see that the neighbors are home, but no one saw you.
With regards to the destruction of your neighbors garden do you:
A. Knock on the door, tell them what happened and offer to reimburse them for the damages
B. Whistle along on your merry way
Note: I really don't care whether or not you call the police
The goosery in this thread is ridiculous. All teenagers that congregate in groups are obnoxious or threatening? How is that in any way a logical or reasonable assumption?
Why should they be congregating in places like store fronts or parking lots? These are not places people are meant to congregate in, to the point where we make it illegal (loitering). If I am parking my car somewhere, I don't want there to be a huge group of young, stupid people who may not respect my property rights (see graffiti) near it. And I don't want to have to push through a huge throng of people who are being loud and generally standing around for not good reason just to go into a store or restaurant. Is this really surprising?
Like where? Honestly in our town there were no public spaces we could use, other than one or two tiny parks that weren't close to anything. Everyone just sees teens as annoying shitlords and shoos them away from places, then "upstanding" folks like yourself say "they should be playing sports or studying" and they don't have anywhere to go. Also, the whole process of being an idiot teen is you LEARN how to interact in public. You also are likely to be bad at it initially.
I understand that they don't have their own homes, aren't allowed in hang outs like bars, and don't have the money to hang out where they can (restaurants, bowling alleys, etc.). But that doesn't explain why they should hang out in such obstrusive and inapppropriate places as a parking lot. Parking lots are for parking cars, not gathering in large groups every night of the summer and running around, rough housing, sitting on the hoods of people's cars, etc.
Again, how is it a logical or reasonable assumption to say they're "stupid," "loud," "might not respect your property rights," "are in a throng preventing you from getting into a store," "have no good reason to be standing where they're standing," or are "loitering?" How are any of those tied to being a teenager? You sound like your in-laws right now.
Like I said before, a small group of friends hanging out in a reasonable place is fine. None of the attributes I described are inherent to or universal among teenagers, but I see them very frequently when these large groups gather. Maybe a large group of elderly people or middle aged people in a parking lot or in front of a store would be just as bad, but, in my experience, they don't exist.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
SKFM seems the type that if I was walking infront of his house and had to step on his grass to avoid being hit by a car. He would be disgruntled.
No, but if you stepped on my flower and ruined them, I'd expect you to pay for that.
So, if someone who lives near you is allergic to your flowers, are you going to pay for their allergy medication?
How is this at all analogous? In the one case, someone damages my property to save themself. In the other, someone is harmed by proximity to my property. To be analogous, my flowers would need to be growing onto your property, and then I would remove them.
And the fact that your response to someone surviving possibly serious bodily injury is to worry about your flowers is sickening. And, even from a legal standpoint, since he wasn't responsible for the circumstances leading him onto your flowers, he would not be required to pay for them. The law tends to value human life over property, even if you clearly do not.
It's been a while, but I seem to recall from torts that there is a defense to claims for destruction of property and trespassing based on necessity, but it is not always easy to prove. But the actual state of the law aside, why should the home owner bear the cost of your actions? If your choice was to be hit and die or to jump onto someone's property and reimburse them if you do damage, wouldn't you choose the latter every time? Let's say it isn't even flowers. Let's say you are the driver, and someone is standing directly in front of you and so you must choose running him over or driving into someone's house. Should the home owner bear the cost of your actions?
As a kid my dad brandished a weapon at least once to get some weirdos off our farm.
We also had to defend the porch from possums and raccoons on numerous occasions. Fuckers are mean.
Oh man, just recently we had a raccoon living by our front door (kinda on the roof, kinda on these pillar things) and Im pretty sure it was trying to find a place to give birth. The fucking thing made predator noises and hissed and shit. Entering/leaving the house was like running the gauntlet.
12 gauge to the face would clear that right up.
Yeah, we thought about that but then Id have to buy a gun, learn to aim, and then worry about the neighbors in my residential area calling the cops because Im shooting my roof.
I wonder how our sense of personal property will change once population increases to the point that the current model becomes infeasable.
When exactly would that be? Tokyo has about 11,000 people per square kilometre. New York has 4600. America as a whole has 34. What's the breaking point?
When will the current model (you get what you can pay for/ what is handed down to you) ever become something that wouldn't work?
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While you should have the right to tell people to leave your property, some kids standing on it isn't slavery.
Come on.
Noone has a right in my property but me (well, the state does in certain cases). If I don't want kids running on my lawn, how is that unreasonable? Especially since that usually equates to them being loud outside my house, which is not something I should have to deal with.
Like I said before, I don't care if there is a group of a few friends somewhere. I don't care about kids walking around in the mall or on the street or whatever either. It is just when the do things that people normally don't do, like congregate in large groups in parking lots or outside stores that I object to.
Never said I disagreed with that. It was your hyperbole comparing to slavery which sounds ridiculous.
People have explained why they do that. Just go around them and you'll be fine. Also remember, you were a teenager once. How would you have felt if an adult thought of you back then like you're talking about teenagers now?
Like he didn't "get" it and my friends and I were doing something novel and important he just didn't understand because we were all special snow flakes having new experiences he couldn't relate to. And I would be absolutely wrong, because all teenagers (including spacekungfuteen) are stupid. As I've gotten older, I have learned that adults really do know best in most cases, and they do "get" what the teens are doing, but correctly recognize that it is dumb.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
That's called being a teenager. You grow up and move onto new things. There's nothing wrong with this. It's natural.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
No, but if you stepped on my flower and ruined them, I'd expect you to pay for that.
I once flung a snake into the air and made it land on my dad's head. I am that good. Don't cross me.
I am actually 100% on your side. My property means you stay tf out. But you just know if someone had to jump on your flowers to avoid certain death they would try to act like they didn't owe you anything, and hopefully they don't step on some roses and get pricked by some thorns because then you're just going to get sued.
So the kids run across our lawn, they leave stuff on the lawn (sandals, socks etc.), they make a mess (muddy hand prints on the car/garage being the new thing since it's been raining a bit)
Is it unreasonable to resent having to clean up after other people's kids on your property?
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Is that a euphemism for dog poop?
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
I don't trust anyone. Yes this means sometimes I avoid groups of black people just like I avoid groups of white people. Or old people. I am not discriminating. Teenagers are especially earning of my ire because they lack a lot of social understanding, nuance, or grace because they're teenagers.
It's like I wrote this post.
When exactly would that be? Tokyo has about 11,000 people per square kilometre. New York has 4600. America as a whole has 34. What's the breaking point?
So, if someone who lives near you is allergic to your flowers, are you going to pay for their allergy medication?
Why should they be congregating in places like store fronts or parking lots? These are not places people are meant to congregate in, to the point where we make it illegal (loitering). If I am parking my car somewhere, I don't want there to be a huge group of young, stupid people who may not respect my property rights (see graffiti) near it. And I don't want to have to push through a huge throng of people who are being loud and generally standing around for not good reason just to go into a store or restaurant. Is this really surprising?
If it makes you feel any better, I avoid most large groups of loud people loitering somewhere for no discernible reasons.
Thought honestly I've only really seen teenagers do this, and it sometimes causes them to do stupid things.
I'm not asking for teenagers to change, or the law to change to accommodate me. I'll just avoid them. Like I avoid rush hour, or lunchtime queues or anything else that I find unpleasant to deal with.
What I would like to be against the law though, is people greeting each other in the departure lanes at airports. yes, yes, you haven't seen your extended family in a while, but please move your luggage and hugging/crying half a dozen peeps off to the side so that people can actually leave.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
That's why people are having a hard time connecting with you.
How is this at all analogous? In the one case, someone damages my property to save themself. In the other, someone is harmed by proximity to my property. To be analogous, my flowers would need to be growing onto your property, and then I would remove them.
Like where? Honestly in our town there were no public spaces we could use, other than one or two tiny parks that weren't close to anything. Everyone just sees teens as annoying shitlords and shoos them away from places, then "upstanding" folks like yourself say "they should be playing sports or studying" and they don't have anywhere to go. Also, the whole process of being an idiot teen is you LEARN how to interact in public. You also are likely to be bad at it initially.
And the fact that your response to someone surviving possibly serious bodily injury is to worry about your flowers is sickening. And, even from a legal standpoint, since he wasn't responsible for the circumstances leading him onto your flowers, he would not be required to pay for them. The law tends to value human life over property, even if you clearly do not.
Okay hypothetical time. You're walking through your neighborhood and a car almost hits you, causing you to jump into and destroy a portion of your neighbor's garden. The driver doesn't notice you and continues onward. You did not see his plates or recognize the car. You see that the neighbors are home, but no one saw you.
With regards to the destruction of your neighbors garden do you:
A. Knock on the door, tell them what happened and offer to reimburse them for the damages
B. Whistle along on your merry way
Note: I really don't care whether or not you call the police
I understand that they don't have their own homes, aren't allowed in hang outs like bars, and don't have the money to hang out where they can (restaurants, bowling alleys, etc.). But that doesn't explain why they should hang out in such obstrusive and inapppropriate places as a parking lot. Parking lots are for parking cars, not gathering in large groups every night of the summer and running around, rough housing, sitting on the hoods of people's cars, etc.
Like I said before, a small group of friends hanging out in a reasonable place is fine. None of the attributes I described are inherent to or universal among teenagers, but I see them very frequently when these large groups gather. Maybe a large group of elderly people or middle aged people in a parking lot or in front of a store would be just as bad, but, in my experience, they don't exist.
It's been a while, but I seem to recall from torts that there is a defense to claims for destruction of property and trespassing based on necessity, but it is not always easy to prove. But the actual state of the law aside, why should the home owner bear the cost of your actions? If your choice was to be hit and die or to jump onto someone's property and reimburse them if you do damage, wouldn't you choose the latter every time? Let's say it isn't even flowers. Let's say you are the driver, and someone is standing directly in front of you and so you must choose running him over or driving into someone's house. Should the home owner bear the cost of your actions?
Yeah, we thought about that but then Id have to buy a gun, learn to aim, and then worry about the neighbors in my residential area calling the cops because Im shooting my roof.
Luckily (for me anyway) it was hit by a car.
When will the current model (you get what you can pay for/ what is handed down to you) ever become something that wouldn't work?