But really, I've been waiting for this for a long time. I barely had any time with the original, and JoD left me really wanting to track down the original in some form. Too lazy to mod a PS2, and getting all of the necessary Saturn stuff was too expensive. I was crazy jelly of Japan getting the PS2 port. It's a bit of a shame we're not getting a full HD remake ala JSR, especially since I think it'd look incredible in HD, but I am certainly alright with this. I'm also super happy this is coming to the PC.
I bought a Saturn about...eight, nine years ago? Just because I was always curious about this game. Actually managed to snag a new copy with the controller and everything.
It was kind of a bummer after all that time that I found it to be a pretty forgettable experience and just not a very good time.
However, I do have to say that I like how Sega has been approaching their re-releases lately. More companies need to take note if they have a rich catalog. And by rich I mean "before the PS2 era where you can just simply put your one-gen-old game in HD"
I bought a Saturn about...eight, nine years ago? Just because I was always curious about this game. Actually managed to snag a new copy with the controller and everything.
It was kind of a bummer after all that time that I found it to be a pretty forgettable experience and just not a very good time.
However, I do have to say that I like how Sega has been approaching their re-releases lately. More companies need to take note if they have a rich catalog. And by rich I mean "before the PS2 era where you can just simply put your one-gen-old game in HD"
The experience was better back in 1996.
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But really, I've been waiting for this for a long time. I barely had any time with the original, and JoD left me really wanting to track down the original in some form. Too lazy to mod a PS2, and getting all of the necessary Saturn stuff was too expensive. I was crazy jelly of Japan getting the PS2 port. It's a bit of a shame we're not getting a full HD remake ala JSR, especially since I think it'd look incredible in HD, but I am certainly alright with this. I'm also super happy this is coming to the PC.
JSR isn't a full HD remake. It's the dreamcast game, running on a Dreamcast emulator, in a higher resolution, with certain assets redrawn.
Funnily enough, this is much closer to what you want. This isn't saturn emulation. It's a full NiGHTS remake from scratch for the PS2... running in HD on a PS3 and 360.
just be forewarned, much of Christmas NiGHTS was gutted originally in the PS2 remake this is being ported from. It was mainly the extraneous stuff, like Sonic into Dreams and a few CGI gallery presents, but the main parts of Christmas NiGHTS - like the a-life manager - were still there.
EDIT: Also of interest, and related to this re-release, is that in Japan, Sony is about to put a few of the later Sega Ages 2500 releases on their PS2 download section. The later Sega Ages compilations and remakes were awesome, as Sega abandoned D3, who made the earlier games, and began using companies like M2 and Treasure to handle the releases. One of the first games being put online is an awesome remake of Dragon Force, with Die Hard Arcade and the Gunstar Heroes collection coming next. There is a strong possibility that these might come over here under the Sega Heritage moniker, like NiGHTS. The NiGHTS remake was originally a Sega Ages release, but it became a full game release during development (Sega Ages games released at 2500 yen, essentially a budget release).
Sega has a lot of good games they can tap from these later Sega Ages games. The Wonderboy Vintage Collection was a cut down version of the Monster World Sega Ages Collection, for example. The best game released under the banner was Fantasy Zone II DX - a full remake of Fantasy Zone II, originally released on the Sega Master System, done on System 16 hardware. M2 and Sega teamed up to do the remake, and actually used a real System 16 kit and produced the game on real hardware (dubbed the System 16c). The Fantasy Zone Collection included this game running with a System 16 emulator. Such a game would be perfect for a digital download release, and hopefully Sega chooses to bring it over. I made a thread about Fantasy Zone II DX a few years ago here.
It's not that weird. People forget how young this medium is. We're barely 30 years removed from a period where programmers were forbidden to credit themselves with the creation of a game. We're 20 years removed from an era where the names of the people who made said games were accessible only via a special code, and they'd go by pseudonyms during the normal credits. It was just a different time. Why save the source code to your games? The idea that we'd need them to port a game to another console 20 years later never crossed these people's minds.
In fairness, I'm the kind of person who-- if I can-- will hold on to something for years just to be sure, just in case, I might need it later.
...I'm clearly operating on a different wavelength.
As for the Zelda stuff - various bits of trivia and hacking. The link I posted earlier shows how suspicions about Link's Awakening arose - the rom space padding for the game used memory for the pc which compiled the game that wasn't cleared prior to compile, thus you can see what was available in memory on that PC at the time, and the guy had his IDE open with the source code to the game. And while some of the code is well documented and looks like drafted assembly (mainly parts that would be portable between games, like polling controller inputs), other parts are very obviously machine disassembled. And there is only one reason you'd ever use a machine disassembled source code over a drafted one - you lost the original source. Other stuff like this has been found within BS Zelda and various other zelda ports which supports the theory. In the case of LA, a programmer for LA:DX confirmed that the original source was lost on another forum.
I think I understood, like, half of that. XD
Sucks terribly on BS Zelda, though. I really want them to do something new with that. I mean I really want them to...
And, to clarify, I meant every zelda up to, and including, OoT.
Ah, okay. Still weird to me, though, if only because it's Nintendo and they seem to really appreciate their own history. You look at Iwata Asks and the stuff they show, and you get the idea they never throw anything out...
just be forewarned, much of Christmas NiGHTS was gutted originally in the PS2 remake this is being ported from. It was mainly the extraneous stuff, like Sonic into Dreams and a few CGI gallery presents, but the main parts of Christmas NiGHTS - like the a-life manager - were still there.
...DAMMIT. AGAIN.
Oh, and about the source code vs. on-disc code: What's the difference to the developers? People hack ROMs and stuff all the time, so I'm sort of curious why one might carry more weight than the other if both can be altered and used.
I seem to remember something about Contra 4's NES games not supporting true 2-player (you could use 2-player mode, but the one DS would control both characters) due to the people in Japan not wanting the code to be messed with, though...
LBD_Nytetrayn on
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Noooooo but the sonic thing was one of the best parts.
Sega has been absolutely killing it on their DD front. They are, in my clearly biased opinion, the best DD company around right now. For the past few years, they've been going well above and beyond for their DD releases, and it's kinda become the norm. They remade Sonic CD from scratch, translated Monster World IV in-house, licensed every song, from every territory in JSR save for two, and even regained the Daytona license, and bought the Model 2 emulator and had the author work on their Daytona USA port. It wouldn't shock me to see the stuff missing from the PS2 remake get put back in for this rerelease.
EDIT: Also of interest, and related to this re-release, is that in Japan, Sony is about to put a few of the later Sega Ages 2500 releases on their PS2 download section. The later Sega Ages compilations and remakes were awesome, as Sega abandoned D3, who made the earlier games, and began using companies like M2 and Treasure to handle the releases. One of the first games being put online is an awesome remake of Dragon Force
If that were to happen, my head would explode with joy.
JSR isn't a full HD remake. It's the dreamcast game, running on a Dreamcast emulator, in a higher resolution, with certain assets redrawn.
Well, I've noticed that the majority of games that people refer to as "HD remakes" are actually just HD ports. "HD Remake" has essentially become shorthand for "It's the original game in a higher resolution, with certain assets redrawn."
This is actually the only Saturn game I still have. Maybe I can get $5 for the game and the system.
I think he's asking how a game can be pirated if the anti-piracy stuff is included in that high-level code. If it becomes unreadable..how do you figure out how to crack it?
Because the most basic piracy stuff is the just going "okay, let's trace what steps the code takes when it works as compared to when anti piracy triggers. Ah, in step 5235234 we skip to Y instead if X. Rewrite that piece to always go to X".
It gets trickier with better protection, but at the end of the day it's always a matter of only looking at a tiny, tiny fraction of code execution. If you want to port an entire game you need the original code, not just understanding of the copy protection portion.
12 minute preview/interview video. The interview isn't anything worth paying attention to, but at least we get a nice preview of what this will look like. The important bits: out by the end of the year, no price point announced but people "will be happy" with it (so probably $10), and he only mentioned XBLA and PSN but there's a graphic on the bottom towards the very end that included PC (as well as PS2 and Saturn).
I'm hoping that this lives up to the years of hype that's been drilled into me, but I'm going to assume that this is one of those nostalgia games. Every time I've looked at videos or pictures, I just see a creature flying through hoops and wonder what the fuss is all about.
I'm hoping that this lives up to the years of hype that's been drilled into me, but I'm going to assume that this is one of those nostalgia games. Every time I've looked at videos or pictures, I just see a creature flying through hoops and wonder what the fuss is all about.
This was pretty much exactly how I felt about it back in the early 2000's when I bought a Saturn just for it
Hope this fares better than the release of Jet Set Radio
What's wrong with JSR HD? Everything I've read says that it's a decent port.
As far as being a port goes, I've heard there are a lot of framerate issues
But the general tone I've heard from reviews is basically "hey this game isn't really that great, it is very much a product of its era and doesn't stand the test of time"
I tried out the 360 demo and...hrm. It certainly looks great, about as good as I could hope for, and the gameplay seems to be about what I expected after playing JoD, but the controls are...hrm. They feel like they weren't ported over to be played on an analog stick, but on a d-pad. There's no finesse; just hard, jerky movements like...well, like controlling an old SNES game with an analog stick instead of the d-pad it was designed for. I don't know what happened, especially considering the big deal with the Saturn analog controller, but something got lost or muffed up in the translation here. Controls aside, it seems like a pretty spot-on HD port.
I saw someone say this on twitter last night: "I'm loving NiGHTS HD but I wiiiish they could have fixed the controls in the remastered version SS version is smooth as butter!"
I'm wondering if I'll notice a difference because I never owned the analog controller and only ever played it with a D-Pad.
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No bad thing. It's a very good port.
I am excited. I hope they include Christmas NiGHTS.
As stated earlier in the thread, it does.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!
Carry on.
But really, I've been waiting for this for a long time. I barely had any time with the original, and JoD left me really wanting to track down the original in some form. Too lazy to mod a PS2, and getting all of the necessary Saturn stuff was too expensive. I was crazy jelly of Japan getting the PS2 port. It's a bit of a shame we're not getting a full HD remake ala JSR, especially since I think it'd look incredible in HD, but I am certainly alright with this. I'm also super happy this is coming to the PC.
It was kind of a bummer after all that time that I found it to be a pretty forgettable experience and just not a very good time.
However, I do have to say that I like how Sega has been approaching their re-releases lately. More companies need to take note if they have a rich catalog. And by rich I mean "before the PS2 era where you can just simply put your one-gen-old game in HD"
The experience was better back in 1996.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
JSR isn't a full HD remake. It's the dreamcast game, running on a Dreamcast emulator, in a higher resolution, with certain assets redrawn.
Funnily enough, this is much closer to what you want. This isn't saturn emulation. It's a full NiGHTS remake from scratch for the PS2... running in HD on a PS3 and 360.
just be forewarned, much of Christmas NiGHTS was gutted originally in the PS2 remake this is being ported from. It was mainly the extraneous stuff, like Sonic into Dreams and a few CGI gallery presents, but the main parts of Christmas NiGHTS - like the a-life manager - were still there.
EDIT: Also of interest, and related to this re-release, is that in Japan, Sony is about to put a few of the later Sega Ages 2500 releases on their PS2 download section. The later Sega Ages compilations and remakes were awesome, as Sega abandoned D3, who made the earlier games, and began using companies like M2 and Treasure to handle the releases. One of the first games being put online is an awesome remake of Dragon Force, with Die Hard Arcade and the Gunstar Heroes collection coming next. There is a strong possibility that these might come over here under the Sega Heritage moniker, like NiGHTS. The NiGHTS remake was originally a Sega Ages release, but it became a full game release during development (Sega Ages games released at 2500 yen, essentially a budget release).
Sega has a lot of good games they can tap from these later Sega Ages games. The Wonderboy Vintage Collection was a cut down version of the Monster World Sega Ages Collection, for example. The best game released under the banner was Fantasy Zone II DX - a full remake of Fantasy Zone II, originally released on the Sega Master System, done on System 16 hardware. M2 and Sega teamed up to do the remake, and actually used a real System 16 kit and produced the game on real hardware (dubbed the System 16c). The Fantasy Zone Collection included this game running with a System 16 emulator. Such a game would be perfect for a digital download release, and hopefully Sega chooses to bring it over. I made a thread about Fantasy Zone II DX a few years ago here.
Dammit.
In fairness, I'm the kind of person who-- if I can-- will hold on to something for years just to be sure, just in case, I might need it later.
...I'm clearly operating on a different wavelength.
I think I understood, like, half of that. XD
Sucks terribly on BS Zelda, though. I really want them to do something new with that. I mean I really want them to...
Ah, okay. Still weird to me, though, if only because it's Nintendo and they seem to really appreciate their own history. You look at Iwata Asks and the stuff they show, and you get the idea they never throw anything out...
...DAMMIT. AGAIN.
Oh, and about the source code vs. on-disc code: What's the difference to the developers? People hack ROMs and stuff all the time, so I'm sort of curious why one might carry more weight than the other if both can be altered and used.
I seem to remember something about Contra 4's NES games not supporting true 2-player (you could use 2-player mode, but the one DS would control both characters) due to the people in Japan not wanting the code to be messed with, though...
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Sega has been absolutely killing it on their DD front. They are, in my clearly biased opinion, the best DD company around right now. For the past few years, they've been going well above and beyond for their DD releases, and it's kinda become the norm. They remade Sonic CD from scratch, translated Monster World IV in-house, licensed every song, from every territory in JSR save for two, and even regained the Daytona license, and bought the Model 2 emulator and had the author work on their Daytona USA port. It wouldn't shock me to see the stuff missing from the PS2 remake get put back in for this rerelease.
If that were to happen, my head would explode with joy.
I'll leave it ambiguous as to which head I refer.
Well, I've noticed that the majority of games that people refer to as "HD remakes" are actually just HD ports. "HD Remake" has essentially become shorthand for "It's the original game in a higher resolution, with certain assets redrawn."
This is actually the only Saturn game I still have. Maybe I can get $5 for the game and the system.
I have these too. And this thread is kind of inspiring me to break out my Saturn sometime in the next few weeks. Perhaps I'll be able to fix it.
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It gets trickier with better protection, but at the end of the day it's always a matter of only looking at a tiny, tiny fraction of code execution. If you want to port an entire game you need the original code, not just understanding of the copy protection portion.
Jet Set Radio is only available at one platform so far, you might want to give it a bit more time before deeming it a failure.
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What's wrong with JSR HD? Everything I've read says that it's a decent port.
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Seems to be get decent reviews, nothing outstanding.
http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/662136-jet-set-radio/index.html
http://www.gamerankings.com/ps3/662135-jet-set-radio/index.html
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This was pretty much exactly how I felt about it back in the early 2000's when I bought a Saturn just for it
As far as being a port goes, I've heard there are a lot of framerate issues
But the general tone I've heard from reviews is basically "hey this game isn't really that great, it is very much a product of its era and doesn't stand the test of time"
I tried out the 360 demo and...hrm. It certainly looks great, about as good as I could hope for, and the gameplay seems to be about what I expected after playing JoD, but the controls are...hrm. They feel like they weren't ported over to be played on an analog stick, but on a d-pad. There's no finesse; just hard, jerky movements like...well, like controlling an old SNES game with an analog stick instead of the d-pad it was designed for. I don't know what happened, especially considering the big deal with the Saturn analog controller, but something got lost or muffed up in the translation here. Controls aside, it seems like a pretty spot-on HD port.
I'm wondering if I'll notice a difference because I never owned the analog controller and only ever played it with a D-Pad.