[PATV] Monday, August 1, 2011 - Extra Credits Season 1, Ep. 12: Diversity

Dog

[PATV] Monday, August 1, 2011 - Extra Credits Season 1, Ep. 12: Diversity

This week, we look at the lack of diversity in video games (and hint at numerous episode topics to come).

Read the full story here

dreadthed

Referencing the Bechdel test? A+. Thank you.

Visual.Pollution

I'm not sure when this video was made but I'm guessing pre Mass Effect 3, where Male Shepard can have a relationship with Kaiden Alenko and Steve Cortez, both of which are pretty good characters in my opinion. while I never opted into those relationship options I did have friends who did and rather enjoyed it. Even when Kaiden was making an attempt at Shepard it wasn't the stereotype you come to see in a lot of media. It felt realistic, he genuinely wanted a meaningful relationship with Shepard instead of just making some over the top pass at him. Kind of like any normal human being who is attracted to another human being would act, he seemed nervous but was willing to try despite the fear or rejection. Also I would think maybe you could point out Vamp from Metal Gear Solid 2, he was a bi-sexual who, while taking on the role of a vampiric assassin, I wouldn't have guessed was bi-sexual if Snake had not explained why a guy with the characteristics of a vampire was named Vamp because of his sexual preference. As for racial stereotypes I agree, and while I'm not sure if you would classify them in the Asian category as they are mongoloid, native Americans are often portrayed as enemies not heroes. I thought Red Dead Redemption had Marsten as at least half aboriginal, it alas did not. Turok seemed a little too over the top to me so I'm sorry I wouldn't count him. And now here we have Assassins Creed 3, where Connor is half native, which is cool, but still we only got 50% on that one haha. I personally would love to see a game where you play as a character from the middle east, or even India! The media industry often portage these people's as evil or just silly. Its pretty sad really. I did like James Heller from Prototype 2, and even came to care about and appreciate him more than Alex Mercer who seemed pretty much just a brooding linear character. Rant complete.

Josh K.

Problem overrated.

Alighieri71

I find the best minority characters in any medium are the ones that really don't make a huge fuss about their diversity. The Green Lantern, John Stewart, could be anybody. You see him first as a Green Lantern before you see him as a black man.

This is how it should be. No one in real life bases their entire personality based on one or two major characteristic. I'm a lot of things, I fit into a lot of labels but I don't say that I'm Chinese or that I'm straight and that's the end all be all of my person.

When you don't overthink how to create a minority character and just think about how would give a character depth based on his aspects and surroundings, it lends to more organic, more meaningful characters.

FrankieTheKneeMan

The problem with discussions such as this one is that any game that doesn't have a minority character gets held up as "part of the problem". Worse still, characters that don't make a big fuss about their minority status get labeled as "not minority enough". Isn't a palate swap the truest form of equality? If a character is black without also being poor, or from a single parent household, or discriminated against because of his skin color, isn't that the truest form of equality?

We also tend to lump the labels that are convenient to this argument onto characters of indeterminate category, and discount that in a universe where aliens are not just real, but radically different from humanity, they count as a different race. Because they aren't "human minority", they somehow count as white. Every character who isn't outrightly gay, is counted in the mass of outrightly straight characters. But for so many characters it isn't even an issue. And for so many more, the gender of their lover matters so little to the actual game, it's not worth discussing. If Mario had been saving Prince Bob all these years, the game would be no different. In shadow of the Colossus, the girlfriend is literally a lifeless corpse. He's not doing this "for love" but "for love of a woman".

Also, @Visual.Pollution, I think it's hilarious that you mention Assassin's Creed 3 as only getting half credit, then in the very next sentence talk about how you'd love to play a game where you play someone of middle eastern descent. Assassin's Creed had you playing as Altair. They were so far ahead of this curve it wasn't even funny. Not an indictment, just a lol I thnk we can all appreciate.

Julzildo

"Diversity-oriented"-ANYTHING blows major chunks, imho. I particularly appreciate the Zynga take : choose your spouse, NO BIG DEAL. Anytime a corporate entity makes a claim at "diversity", they have to caps lock, underline, bold, italic it to make sure we know it's "diverse", thus alienating people who don't take too kindly with it (they're out there) and people who did not wish to take on that specific role in a game.

Playing an action hero in a shoot-em-up has nothing to do with sexuality or gender. Players should be given the option to customize their avatar as they see fit (unless it hurts narrative) and pretend like the avatar is gay/bi/furry or whatever else if they choose to picture it that way. You KNOW major companies will resort to stupid shit such as "100% HOMO LIEUTENANT FROM WW2" type-plot and, as a heterosexual white male in his early 30s, I might not want to play the game as the 100% HOMO 65 year old black guy, 'cause I couldn't relate.

If I'm playing a game and the storytelling includes my main character having homosexual intercourse, wether it is graphic or not, it's just part of a story and I'll take it for what it is.

This should definitely go both ways tho. I have watched a german TV series where 2 characters were a gay couple, they kissed and woke up in bed regularly and no one gave two shits. THAT is how it should be. Heterosexual intercourse is always shown in full detail (most weeknight tv shows and american movies do, anyways) and I feel like we dont -need- to see it. We have to know about it if it drags the plot along further, but spending 10 minutes visually describing it is a waste of perfectly good airtime that could have been used on better content.

Heterosexual relationships are considered as big a deal as homosexual ones, except they are received with feelings at extreme ends of the spectrum.

tldr ; graphical sex doesnt really have its place in media, unless it specifically intends on showing sex, no matter what type of sex it is. Including variety isn't so much the stakes here ; gloryfying normality is the real problem.

Piggie

Coach (and to a lesser extent Rochelle; I never found her particularly engaging) in Left 4 Dead 2 is probably the most realistic black man I have ever seen in a video game.

His characterization - being the de facto fearless leader of the group, due to his age - draws up images of the "badass black guy" without him really being that guy. He isn't loveable because he's a badass, he's loveable because he's a badass overweight dad. When he takes charge, he's strong and cool, but reasonable. When he jokes about his childhood and the others make fun of his weight, he responds how you'd expect a dad too. One of my favorites by far.

ZippoLag

Well, let's see if this thing doesn't swallow my comment this time:
I've found, re-watching this old episodes, that this is the last one that features a sort of slow-paced narration, from the next and onwards it all hyped up, or at least faster paced. What surprised me, thought, is that this slow pace actually bothered me, and previous to watching this episodes I would have thought otherwise. So, yay, personal finding.

DoomBlackDragon

Best way to do it is make almost every game have character creation. Look at Knights of the old Republic 1. You could make male or female of all races. Even though Reven was a white male. Look at Mass Effect and Saints Row. You could make male and female of any gender as well. Heck Saints row let you chose your voice. Sure this does not work with every game. The Witcher, Mario, and samus. Still we can move forward to the character creation idea.

realmslover

Games do not have to do anything more than entertain. They do not have to address the issues and biases of society. Games do not need to be novels lit up and brought to life. Neither should we feel forced to shy away from it for the sake of the almighty dollar or convenience.

Geigan

A lot of possible offshoot topics you say? Who would have thought diversity was a diverse subject? <.< >.>