Look, the only thing we need patched into WoL right now is the harvester count on the CC/Hatch/Nexus that we saw in the HotS demos. Knowing how many mining workers I have going would be super helpful. It's already on the gas buildings so go ahead and add it to the main buildings too.
that was only visible to spectators
Yeah I know. It needs to get integrated to the players as well. We already got the gas option, might as well add the main building too. It wouldn't help pros much, but I bet they'd use it more than they'd like to admit.
I guess what I'm saying is, there's no reason for it not to be added.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
Actually I like to think we were trying to respond seriously in order to foster discussion.
On an unrelated note, why is LzGaMeR still on EG? Like, seriously. Let me list his accomplishments in SC2 since the launch of the game:
In October, 2010, he beat Machine 3:1 to get third in the EG Master's Cup
That's it. He doesn't do promotional stuff for EG. He doesn't even live in the team house. Is he blackmailing the heads of EG or something?
He's probably quite cheap to keep on board. Also, don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that he is close with Alex Garfield.
I think he's probably a better player than he gets credit for. Like, better than Machine/Incontrol. I've seen him give DeMuslim some pretty good games back when they were still doing the practice sessions.
The real answer though is that he has a similar physical build to Machine (from what I've seen) and he can grow a chinstrap.
LZGamer is friends with Alex Garfield and probably doesn't get a salary, just keyboards and shit. It is probably easier to scrutinize players if people knew some of them were getting paid in computer parts.
Actually I like to think we were trying to respond seriously in order to foster discussion.
;-)
Right. Anzekay makes a joke and you try to use it to segue into a serious conversation. Like those drunk guys at comedy clubs who try to start a loud, bumbling conversation with the comedian before pissing themselves and getting thrown out on their asses. Everybody loves those guys.
On a separate note, I used "segue" in a response to one of your posts. There's GOT to be some kind of deep, spiritual meaning in that.
fatalspoons on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
I have read through Invictus's press conference there and I conclude I feel the exact opposite.
To me, as a design enthusiast, hereing specific resolution ideas as long as they are novel, and not oft repeated, is really refreshing. It is actually my favorite thing to talk about how the game could be evolved in terms of design, rather than just rejiggering numbers.
I think its the equivalent of someone being at a shitty restaraunt and being like 'Hey this sandwich needs more ketchup!', rather than his stated preference of generic whine, because to me that is like 'HEY THIS FUCKING SANDWICH TASTES LIKE SNAKE DICK'.
Maybe the chef (Blizzard) won't hear it, (even though I've seen many things proliferate through smaller circles and eventually affect design decisions in games), but I enjoy the process. It is not only constructive, but to me immediately outs a lot more information about why someone feels something is unfair. Beyond that it is creative and opens up more avenues for discussion.
I also disagree with Invictus.
If I'm going to balance whine, or listen to balance whine, then far better that it be targeted and specific, showing at least some thought having been put into possible solutions, rather than just generic whine.
"Colossus are imba, this is because they don't take a lot of skill to use and are extremely powerful, and I think a good way to fix this is to change the way their attack works so that it takes a bit of micro to get their full potential"
is much better than
"Fuck Protoss, you can't beat colossus"
I understand what the guy who says "fuck protoss" wants out of the discussion. He wants "yeah, man, fucking protoss," and I understand why he wants that. "fucking protoss, you can't beat colossus" is even hard to take seriously as a balance whine; people beat colossus all the time, so the claim is clearly false. Instead such a person is looking for a sympathetic place to express his/her frustration. The other is well-thought out, unlikely to change minds, and virtually an invitation to a flame war.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Kespa and the eSports federation have signed a deal stating that SC2 and BW teams can't trade/poach players until October 2013. Quite a long time, it is an interesting decision.
This has been an interesting day in the thread. Some balance complaints. Complaints about balance complaints. Complaints about the complaints about balance complaints. Pirates. Emoticons. Someone mentioned something about wetting themselves.
Kespa and the eSports federation have signed a deal stating that SC2 and BW teams can't trade/poach players until October 2013. Quite a long time, it is an interesting decision.
What about players who leave teams and become free individuals? Can the other 'faction' then recruit them?
I have read through Invictus's press conference there and I conclude I feel the exact opposite.
To me, as a design enthusiast, hereing specific resolution ideas as long as they are novel, and not oft repeated, is really refreshing. It is actually my favorite thing to talk about how the game could be evolved in terms of design, rather than just rejiggering numbers.
I think its the equivalent of someone being at a shitty restaraunt and being like 'Hey this sandwich needs more ketchup!', rather than his stated preference of generic whine, because to me that is like 'HEY THIS FUCKING SANDWICH TASTES LIKE SNAKE DICK'.
Maybe the chef (Blizzard) won't hear it, (even though I've seen many things proliferate through smaller circles and eventually affect design decisions in games), but I enjoy the process. It is not only constructive, but to me immediately outs a lot more information about why someone feels something is unfair. Beyond that it is creative and opens up more avenues for discussion.
I also disagree with Invictus.
If I'm going to balance whine, or listen to balance whine, then far better that it be targeted and specific, showing at least some thought having been put into possible solutions, rather than just generic whine.
"Colossus are imba, this is because they don't take a lot of skill to use and are extremely powerful, and I think a good way to fix this is to change the way their attack works so that it takes a bit of micro to get their full potential"
is much better than
"Fuck Protoss, you can't beat colossus"
I understand what the guy who says "fuck protoss" wants out of the discussion. He wants "yeah, man, fucking protoss," and I understand why he wants that. "fucking protoss, you can't beat colossus" is even hard to take seriously as a balance whine; people beat colossus all the time, so the claim is clearly false. Instead such a person is looking for a sympathetic place to express his/her frustration. The other is well-thought out, unlikely to change minds, and virtually an invitation to a flame war.
I think the opposite of this again! This is weird. Do you look like me but with an evil moustache and goatee combo?
Whoa, just read the last 4 pages of the thread. You guys went nuts!
Here is my opinion:
Fuck balance! Get better and win regardless of that bullshit. Win ratios are pretty close anyways. Just play better than your opponents, and if they play better than you then use the knowledge you have gained from your loss to further fuck them up.
A Cool Post that I think less experienced players can learn from:
Here's a question...something that just bugs me a lot. Why do higher tech units have to cost a ton of gas? Why can't some of them be really really mineral heavy but light on gas cost?
That would defeat the purpose of having gas at all.
Gas = tech. Past the very early game, almost every timing in the game is based around how much gas you have. Every time you invest gas in a tech not designed for your late game army, you're saying to yourself, "I'm trying to win soon, or I need to defend in case he attempts to win now, or I feel that this investment will do enough damage to justify setting up my late game." A lategame unit costing like 400m 50g wouldn't work economincally. Your gas would just pile up, and you'd be mineral starved. High tech units are the gas dump.
One end of the spectrum is the zerg player who gets hive and broodlords at 16 minutes in zvt- delaying gas and skipping other gas upgrades that don't contribute to his late game composition. The other end is the terran who opens cloak banshee into siege tanks and pushes on 1 base in tvt, investing all gas directly into units that are meant to end the game as fast as possible.
Hm, I got kind of rambly. Learning how each race invests gas and the timings for each race is a huge part of what got me to masters league, though, and something that I don't think is stressed enough to platinum and diamond players trying to make the jump forward in their learning.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
knowing how much gas your opponent has is a big part of scouting - it tells you what he can do.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Okay, seriously TLO - doubling up workers on close mineral patches is all fine, but doubling on far patches is not worth it. The amount of time he just had a worker spazzing out while he spammed commands to make it stay on the patch probably cost him more minerals than he actually gained by doubling his close patches
and doubling your far patches itself does nothing if you have free far patches, because far patches mine at the same rate. the reason to double up on close patches while you have empty far patches is because it IS a benefit, however slight. But if you fuck it up, or worse, waste time doubling on far patches, you end up behind.
idiot.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I love when I EMP every single templar and then get destroyed in the fight
like, what if the toss HADN'T sucked and actually had an obs? it would have been even worse?
Whoa, just read the last 4 pages of the thread. You guys went nuts!
Here is my opinion:
Fuck balance! Get better and win regardless of that bullshit. Win ratios are pretty close anyways. Just play better than your opponents, and if they play better than you then use the knowledge you have gained from your loss to further fuck them up.
Sometimes, I think most of the time, I would agree with this sentiment. But last night was not one of those times.
I think the counter argument is that it simply isn't fair for one person to have an easier time of it than anyone else. Nobody wants to feel like they worked harder and did better than someone else and still ended up losing because of factors outside of their control.
And of course you can say that the only thing you control is your skill, so be as good as you can possibly be, and then the stuff you don't control won't matter. But in a fair world, it shouldn't be like that.
I remember day9 saying once that something he loved about starcraft was that it was a true test of skill and nothing else. That you couldn't buy your way to greatness. There is no luck in starcraft, and the game is only as random as you let it be.
I think that is true. And that is why it stings so badly to lose. There is no-one to blame but yourself.
I lose, and it is because I am just unbelievably bad at the game. I was worse than my opponent, and we are both worse than the vast majority of other people who play. I am at the bottom because I suck. There is nothing holding me back, it is a completely level playing field. And the only thing stopping me from being good is myself.
But I try to improve. I try so fucking hard to get better, and every day I find new ways to suck, and I find new things I never even thought I could lose to. I am almost unquantifiably bad. There isn't a finite list of things I lose to, and there isn't a finite list of things I could do better, it's just everything.
And there is no such thing as being objectively good at the game either. You're running towards a finish line that doesn't exist. You need to be accelerating constantly, because everyone else around you is too, and if you slow down then you'll get left behind. So its not just getting better, it's getting better, faster than everyone else is getting better.
And I try to acknowledge all this, to let this knowledge motivate myself to improve, to be humble, and gracious in defeat, but sometimes, that little voice that pops up in my head and says "no. fuck this. you're not terrible. It's not your fault." appears, and I just have to let it out. And thus, balance whine happens.
So to conclude, I whine because I hate myself, not because I actually feel that way about the game.
I feel like Starcraft people, both casual players and pros don't enjoy winning enough. Maybe its because opposite of what my heavy interest in nintendos belies, I actually played a lot of sports growing up. The types of places I played in, when you won. YOU WON. AWWWWWWWWW YEA.
To me it is so unusual to not enjoy that and slap people around with your oversized member after a victory. Certainly there is always work to be done, but the appreciation of benchmarks is just not taught well or something. Seeing Idra like chew his gums angrily after winning IEM Guangzhou is sooooo weird.
I remember seeing the Day9#100 and he talks about after winning his only shitty BW tournament he won, that afterwards he like took a walk on the beach and felt all hollow then cried into a handkerchief made out of lies and money or something. Like what the fack? That is weird.
Maybe it is a self meditation on the ethereal nature of goals themselves, its like grabbing a handful of mist, so mysterious, so dangerous, like sand through the hour glass...
ah yea no Fuck all that, BE A WINNER.
People who get burnt out and overly self critical need to practice their victory dance just a little bit.
Sure it stings to lose, but you need to seek out some moments for yourself, like when my teammates drop in a random 3v3 and I just beat the enemy team controlling all three armies at once. OH RIGHT, DESPITE MY OCCASIONAL INADEQUACIES I AM STILL A MEMBER OF THE GREEK PANTHEON.
let yourself drink the winner juice
it tastes like delicious strawberry pineapple smoothies, is that caramel in there? so sweet
While I can understand why people take the approach of considering themselves terrible at this game, in order to push themselves to get better... I personally prefer to rather think that people are just better than me, and use that to push myself.
Glass half full, I suppose.
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jaziekBad at everythingAnd mad about it.Registered Userregular
Nobody likes a bad winner.
Celebrating when you've just killed someone else's dream seems like kind of an asshole thing to do.
At least that's the way I'd see it.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
This ill defined idea of perfect play that players will strive for puts a damper on victory, because there is always a way you could have done better. Even if you won this time, you've got to think about what you did wrong, so you can make sure you win next time as well.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
I don't understand how you can pin competition as entirely a personal struggle in every case that allows you to shit on yourself, but shift it to your opponent when you have the opportunity to laud yourself.
That is not how you sports. Pick a consistent definition.
If you are wholly competing against yourself then celebrate victory over yourself and circumstances.
If you like crushing other peoples dreams (feels good) then adopt the Michael Jordan/Jaedong athletic mindset (my opponent is evil and must be destroyed).
If you aren't giving yourself some credit at times then you are going to feel especially bad when I hit you on ladder and send you a verbal telegram describing your gruesome embarrassing defeat (sung by the darling voice of Josh Groban).
I didn't know you actually played this game, redraptor. I didn't think you'd have time to do that with all the posting you do!
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
just made a protoss gg with 'woah'
same rank masters as me but apparently I blew his mind.
edit - which made me feel good after the godawful night I had. ewwwwwwwwwwwww. losing to things like a terran dropping me. why wasn't I ready for a terran to drop me? can you answer that? I certainly can't.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
Yeah I gotta say jaziek if your attitude towards life is the same as your attitude in StarCraft then you've got a textbook case of depression.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
Yeah I gotta say jaziek if your attitude towards life is the same as your attitude in StarCraft then you've got a textbook case of depression.
quiet you douche hole
this community is among other things a sounding board for the ups and downs of competitive play among other things and being real about that is cool
having kinks or perhaps things to improve on with regard to your mindset does not qualify you to be diagnosed with a condition
you probably don't understand pushing yourself with regards to anything and the emotional kickback that can cause. I think its pretty neato that people try really hard to get better and still chronicle it here. Most of you chubs laddered to Masters in beta and have sat on your damn laurels for seasons upon seasons.
I'm glad that the new forum supports my obsessive 'post once, think for thirty seconds then edit, repeat two more times' habit by masking that data more than the old format.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
you probably don't understand pushing yourself with regards to anything and the emotional kickback that can cause. I think its pretty neato that people try really hard to get better and still chronicle it here. Most of you chubs laddered to Masters in beta and have sat on your damn laurels for seasons upon seasons.
i'm guilty of this
haven't really had much motivation to play since we moved house in january
I didn't diagnose him I said that if he (not even specifically jaziek but anyone) took an approach of "all my triumphs are meaningless but all my losses reflect what a failure I really am" it would be a very clear sign of depression.
You on the other hand are the only person in this thread that actually flames people.
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jaziekBad at everythingAnd mad about it.Registered Userregular
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
Well the alternative is lying to yourself about how good you actually are, so yeah, that's the way I choose to look at it.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
Yeah I gotta say jaziek if your attitude towards life is the same as your attitude in StarCraft then you've got a textbook case of depression.
You're right. I do feel this way about everything, and it does make my life pretty shitty at times. I sometimes feel like I should see someone about it, but then theres a whole other set of neuroses that stops me from doing that.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
Well the alternative is lying to yourself about how good you actually are, so yeah, that's the way I choose to look at it.
I... Don't really understand how the alternative is lying to yourself. There is no really tangible metric as to how to gauge your level of skill in this game aside from, I suppose, your league. So that means there isn't really a way to fully place your level of skill in a particularly exact fashion in comparison to someone in the same league as you.
Thus, if you beat someone in your league, doesn't that mean you played better than they did? That's actually the same as them playing worse than you did, but the point I am trying to make is the outlook that is derived from the way you're thinking it. If you are constantly thinking about the comparisons in terms of a negative (he is worse than me and I am bad so thus he is worse than bad) instead of a positive (I played better than him and it payed off because I won!) then I honestly think it'll have an impact on your confidence as a player.
Your field assignment jaziek is to tell one person on ladder that they were awful and no match for your manliness. We will require a screen shot. Then you will fist pump, clench your mouth in an upward orientation and watch your own replay salty snacks in hand.
If replay sharing was a feature I would command you to walk a group of us through your splendour but that is not yet implemented. (est. 1998 2013)
redraptor on
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jaziekBad at everythingAnd mad about it.Registered Userregular
Well I can't ladder for the next couple of days.
I might stream a bit in the coming weeks. I need to prepare for lan.
i whine because i do feel that way about infestors.
just saying.
While I can't remember the actual quotes you've had this conversation before . It went;
Dhal : <Long series of posts about Infestors being ridiculous>.
Dhal : "Can someone tell me why Infestors need a snare at all? Anyone?"
Someone : "Because all of Zergs units are melee or close range."
Dhal : "Oh yes, good point."
I've paraphrased (leaving out the swathes of profanity) but that argument pretty much hasn't changed. And against P it holds even stronger (because FF invalidates roach / ling and the one early ranged unit Z has sucks against P. Well against everything actually but still)
Redraptor and herring should become a casting archon
They will be called
Herrtor
Red Herring is what I go by if I log onto an online gaming service to create my account and am 1/5 of a nanosecond behind the rest of the world; some sod always grabs 'Herring' first.
Then I slowly move through the colours in ascending order of likelihood. Hence me being 'Black Herring', 'Mauve Herring' and 'Purple Herring' on various gaming boards / systems.
In a game of SC2 a month or two a go my 'GL HF' was greeted by a 'HAHAHAHAHAHAHA'. Assuming some epic BM was incoming I responded with a "?".
Him : "Your name!"
Me : "What about it?"
Him : "In German it is very funny."
Me : "Why, what does it mean?"
Him : "It is a kind of fish! HAHAHAHAHAH"
Redraptor and herring should become a casting archon
They will be called
Herrtor
We'd need to assign 'Easily identifiable casting / personality quirks' to each of us though.
Not too keen on the 'Makes Inapproriate Oral-Sex Jokes About Family Members', 'Forgets Unit Names' and 'Is Glaringly Wrong Once Per Game' ones TBH. I can do 'Says Puma in a British Accent' one though.
Posts
Yeah I know. It needs to get integrated to the players as well. We already got the gas option, might as well add the main building too. It wouldn't help pros much, but I bet they'd use it more than they'd like to admit.
I guess what I'm saying is, there's no reason for it not to be added.
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Steam ID
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;-)
He's probably quite cheap to keep on board. Also, don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that he is close with Alex Garfield.
I think he's probably a better player than he gets credit for. Like, better than Machine/Incontrol. I've seen him give DeMuslim some pretty good games back when they were still doing the practice sessions.
The real answer though is that he has a similar physical build to Machine (from what I've seen) and he can grow a chinstrap.
Right. Anzekay makes a joke and you try to use it to segue into a serious conversation. Like those drunk guys at comedy clubs who try to start a loud, bumbling conversation with the comedian before pissing themselves and getting thrown out on their asses. Everybody loves those guys.
On a separate note, I used "segue" in a response to one of your posts. There's GOT to be some kind of deep, spiritual meaning in that.
EDIT: In that I try to make things serious
I understand what the guy who says "fuck protoss" wants out of the discussion. He wants "yeah, man, fucking protoss," and I understand why he wants that. "fucking protoss, you can't beat colossus" is even hard to take seriously as a balance whine; people beat colossus all the time, so the claim is clearly false. Instead such a person is looking for a sympathetic place to express his/her frustration. The other is well-thought out, unlikely to change minds, and virtually an invitation to a flame war.
Fun times. Time for bed though.
What about players who leave teams and become free individuals? Can the other 'faction' then recruit them?
I think the opposite of this again! This is weird. Do you look like me but with an evil moustache and goatee combo?
Here is my opinion:
Fuck balance! Get better and win regardless of that bullshit. Win ratios are pretty close anyways. Just play better than your opponents, and if they play better than you then use the knowledge you have gained from your loss to further fuck them up.
A Cool Post that I think less experienced players can learn from: That would defeat the purpose of having gas at all.
Gas = tech. Past the very early game, almost every timing in the game is based around how much gas you have. Every time you invest gas in a tech not designed for your late game army, you're saying to yourself, "I'm trying to win soon, or I need to defend in case he attempts to win now, or I feel that this investment will do enough damage to justify setting up my late game." A lategame unit costing like 400m 50g wouldn't work economincally. Your gas would just pile up, and you'd be mineral starved. High tech units are the gas dump.
One end of the spectrum is the zerg player who gets hive and broodlords at 16 minutes in zvt- delaying gas and skipping other gas upgrades that don't contribute to his late game composition. The other end is the terran who opens cloak banshee into siege tanks and pushes on 1 base in tvt, investing all gas directly into units that are meant to end the game as fast as possible.
Hm, I got kind of rambly. Learning how each race invests gas and the timings for each race is a huge part of what got me to masters league, though, and something that I don't think is stressed enough to platinum and diamond players trying to make the jump forward in their learning.
tlo playing a bo7 against huk
and doubling your far patches itself does nothing if you have free far patches, because far patches mine at the same rate. the reason to double up on close patches while you have empty far patches is because it IS a benefit, however slight. But if you fuck it up, or worse, waste time doubling on far patches, you end up behind.
idiot.
like, what if the toss HADN'T sucked and actually had an obs? it would have been even worse?
Sometimes, I think most of the time, I would agree with this sentiment. But last night was not one of those times.
I think the counter argument is that it simply isn't fair for one person to have an easier time of it than anyone else. Nobody wants to feel like they worked harder and did better than someone else and still ended up losing because of factors outside of their control.
And of course you can say that the only thing you control is your skill, so be as good as you can possibly be, and then the stuff you don't control won't matter. But in a fair world, it shouldn't be like that.
I remember day9 saying once that something he loved about starcraft was that it was a true test of skill and nothing else. That you couldn't buy your way to greatness. There is no luck in starcraft, and the game is only as random as you let it be.
I think that is true. And that is why it stings so badly to lose. There is no-one to blame but yourself.
I lose, and it is because I am just unbelievably bad at the game. I was worse than my opponent, and we are both worse than the vast majority of other people who play. I am at the bottom because I suck. There is nothing holding me back, it is a completely level playing field. And the only thing stopping me from being good is myself.
But I try to improve. I try so fucking hard to get better, and every day I find new ways to suck, and I find new things I never even thought I could lose to. I am almost unquantifiably bad. There isn't a finite list of things I lose to, and there isn't a finite list of things I could do better, it's just everything.
And there is no such thing as being objectively good at the game either. You're running towards a finish line that doesn't exist. You need to be accelerating constantly, because everyone else around you is too, and if you slow down then you'll get left behind. So its not just getting better, it's getting better, faster than everyone else is getting better.
And I try to acknowledge all this, to let this knowledge motivate myself to improve, to be humble, and gracious in defeat, but sometimes, that little voice that pops up in my head and says "no. fuck this. you're not terrible. It's not your fault." appears, and I just have to let it out. And thus, balance whine happens.
So to conclude, I whine because I hate myself, not because I actually feel that way about the game.
just saying.
To me it is so unusual to not enjoy that and slap people around with your oversized member after a victory. Certainly there is always work to be done, but the appreciation of benchmarks is just not taught well or something. Seeing Idra like chew his gums angrily after winning IEM Guangzhou is sooooo weird.
I remember seeing the Day9#100 and he talks about after winning his only shitty BW tournament he won, that afterwards he like took a walk on the beach and felt all hollow then cried into a handkerchief made out of lies and money or something. Like what the fack? That is weird.
Maybe it is a self meditation on the ethereal nature of goals themselves, its like grabbing a handful of mist, so mysterious, so dangerous, like sand through the hour glass...
ah yea no Fuck all that, BE A WINNER.
People who get burnt out and overly self critical need to practice their victory dance just a little bit.
Sure it stings to lose, but you need to seek out some moments for yourself, like when my teammates drop in a random 3v3 and I just beat the enemy team controlling all three armies at once. OH RIGHT, DESPITE MY OCCASIONAL INADEQUACIES I AM STILL A MEMBER OF THE GREEK PANTHEON.
let yourself drink the winner juice
it tastes like delicious strawberry pineapple smoothies, is that caramel in there? so sweet
yes its caramel
Glass half full, I suppose.
Celebrating when you've just killed someone else's dream seems like kind of an asshole thing to do.
At least that's the way I'd see it.
And there's also an element of "Yeah I won, but I only won because my opponent was bad, not because I was good. The real opponent is ....."
This ill defined idea of perfect play that players will strive for puts a damper on victory, because there is always a way you could have done better. Even if you won this time, you've got to think about what you did wrong, so you can make sure you win next time as well.
The only true victory is to become a bonjwa.
So the idea is to disrespect every person you defeat, instead? Because that's exactly what that is, by saying they are bad. That they are so bad they lost to you, who is also terrible but apparently not quite as terrible.
Can't we all just tell ourselves that we played well, we played better than them, and not have to think about these measurements of whether we are 'good' or 'bad' or whatever?
That is not how you sports. Pick a consistent definition.
If you are wholly competing against yourself then celebrate victory over yourself and circumstances.
If you like crushing other peoples dreams (feels good) then adopt the Michael Jordan/Jaedong athletic mindset (my opponent is evil and must be destroyed).
If you aren't giving yourself some credit at times then you are going to feel especially bad when I hit you on ladder and send you a verbal telegram describing your gruesome embarrassing defeat (sung by the darling voice of Josh Groban).
same rank masters as me but apparently I blew his mind.
edit - which made me feel good after the godawful night I had. ewwwwwwwwwwwww. losing to things like a terran dropping me. why wasn't I ready for a terran to drop me? can you answer that? I certainly can't.
Yeah I gotta say jaziek if your attitude towards life is the same as your attitude in StarCraft then you've got a textbook case of depression.
quiet you douche hole
this community is among other things a sounding board for the ups and downs of competitive play among other things and being real about that is cool
having kinks or perhaps things to improve on with regard to your mindset does not qualify you to be diagnosed with a condition
you probably don't understand pushing yourself with regards to anything and the emotional kickback that can cause. I think its pretty neato that people try really hard to get better and still chronicle it here. Most of you chubs laddered to Masters in beta and have sat on your damn laurels for seasons upon seasons.
i'm guilty of this
haven't really had much motivation to play since we moved house in january
You on the other hand are the only person in this thread that actually flames people.
Well the alternative is lying to yourself about how good you actually are, so yeah, that's the way I choose to look at it.
You're right. I do feel this way about everything, and it does make my life pretty shitty at times. I sometimes feel like I should see someone about it, but then theres a whole other set of neuroses that stops me from doing that.
I... Don't really understand how the alternative is lying to yourself. There is no really tangible metric as to how to gauge your level of skill in this game aside from, I suppose, your league. So that means there isn't really a way to fully place your level of skill in a particularly exact fashion in comparison to someone in the same league as you.
Thus, if you beat someone in your league, doesn't that mean you played better than they did? That's actually the same as them playing worse than you did, but the point I am trying to make is the outlook that is derived from the way you're thinking it. If you are constantly thinking about the comparisons in terms of a negative (he is worse than me and I am bad so thus he is worse than bad) instead of a positive (I played better than him and it payed off because I won!) then I honestly think it'll have an impact on your confidence as a player.
And probably not a good impact, frankly.
Your field assignment jaziek is to tell one person on ladder that they were awful and no match for your manliness. We will require a screen shot. Then you will fist pump, clench your mouth in an upward orientation and watch your own replay salty snacks in hand.
If replay sharing was a feature I would command you to walk a group of us through your splendour but that is not yet implemented. (est. 1998 2013)
I might stream a bit in the coming weeks. I need to prepare for lan.
While I can't remember the actual quotes you've had this conversation before . It went;
Dhal : <Long series of posts about Infestors being ridiculous>.
Dhal : "Can someone tell me why Infestors need a snare at all? Anyone?"
Someone : "Because all of Zergs units are melee or close range."
Dhal : "Oh yes, good point."
I've paraphrased (leaving out the swathes of profanity) but that argument pretty much hasn't changed. And against P it holds even stronger (because FF invalidates roach / ling and the one early ranged unit Z has sucks against P. Well against everything actually but still)
They will be called
Herrtor
Red Herring is what I go by if I log onto an online gaming service to create my account and am 1/5 of a nanosecond behind the rest of the world; some sod always grabs 'Herring' first.
Then I slowly move through the colours in ascending order of likelihood. Hence me being 'Black Herring', 'Mauve Herring' and 'Purple Herring' on various gaming boards / systems.
In a game of SC2 a month or two a go my 'GL HF' was greeted by a 'HAHAHAHAHAHAHA'. Assuming some epic BM was incoming I responded with a "?".
Him : "Your name!"
Me : "What about it?"
Him : "In German it is very funny."
Me : "Why, what does it mean?"
Him : "It is a kind of fish! HAHAHAHAHAH"
We'd need to assign 'Easily identifiable casting / personality quirks' to each of us though.
Not too keen on the 'Makes Inapproriate Oral-Sex Jokes About Family Members', 'Forgets Unit Names' and 'Is Glaringly Wrong Once Per Game' ones TBH. I can do 'Says Puma in a British Accent' one though.