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[Twilight Imperium] Game 5 - Round 8: Game Over!

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Posts

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Yeah MrB's hosting and bookkeeping have been amazing considering the complexity of keeping track of this game. Much appreciated since this is one of those games that's fun but extremely unlikely to ever get going with a group in real life. Totally be interested in a future game. If I could make one tiny suggestion: I think it would be easier to read just listing the number of hits for combat. The full list of rolls with the greater than symbol were a little hard to parse.

    I think I actually would have had less fun if I was doing better, but it got so hopeless it punched through the other side to hilarious.

    I know I'm vocal about mechanics. It's not meant to be negative complaining; I just like dissecting mechanics and balance systems in games to get the best experience and most fun out of them.

    With that said, some analysis musings:

    -Yeah I think we were all naive with map creation. Some players really got screwed with starting systems. I guess experienced players could mitigate this with good placement, but that wasn't us :p . I can't remember who put wormhole ends next to Us/Jol-nar and a super militaristic race like Muaat, but if it was Us/Jol-nar then major boner!

    -Naalu! I was pulling for you, buddy! If only as a nice distraction for Jol-nar :). I was baffled by your building dreadnauts instead of fighters early on though, and I think your other racial tech (-1 fleet supply for enemy attackers) is literally 10,000% better than the one you went with.

    -I was mostly happy with the choice of rules we went with. Leaders, representatives, and almost everything from Shards of the Throne seem like they just add complexity without adding much to the actual game. Mechanized units as written though are kind of ridiculous. I think you'd have to completely do away with the "everything that refers to ground forces does not apply to mech units" rule before they can come close to reasonable, and even then I'm not totally sure they still wouldn't marginalize races based around ground forces.

    -Let's talk tech! I think we all realize that movement speed is king. The best techs are definitely XRD drives and War Suns. Stasis capsules are considered a substitute for XRD in the base game but mech units make them pointless. Light Wave would be another killer tech if it wasn't so far up the tree that only Jol-Nar have a decent shot at ever getting it. Hylar lasers and Enviro Compensators are also key. I definitely agree with the reasoning behind the house ruled tech tree though: almost all of the most useful techs are in the first two tiers so there's very little reason to go beyond that. The easy accessibility of defense turrets almost makes fighters pointless.

    -Voting and laws didn't seem terrible useful. Influence was almost solely a currency to buy CCs with off of the Leadership card.

    -This isn't personal sour grapes, but ye gods the Yin are terrible. The BGG poll concurs and calls them the worst race in the game. Scattered abilities all over the place so you can't even have fun with a racial theme, powers that are only sort of okay in certain situations if and only if the dice make them work, flip ability that's almost more of a handicap than a help, the worst homeworld since you can only flip one planet a turn, the worst starting tech in the game (only 2 techs, nothing to help reach XRD or stasis capsules, and defense turrets are mostly a mid game response that don't really help you at the beginning), and bottom of the barrel trade treaties. I think the worst part was that they just don't scale at all (you can only ever flip one planet, one kamikaze attempt, and one invasion conversion) and they don't have a strong early game (not even a decent one) to make up for it. The Yin are like playing Dan in Street Fighter only without the comedic value. I would delegate this race to only be played by veterans seeking a handicap.

    -I think I could live without secret objectives entirely. They're not really something you can plan against, there's way too big a luck factor in getting one that plays into your race, and no way are they close to being balanced in terms of difficulty. There's a house rule that lets you draw a bunch at the start and pick one, but I think I like the house rule that gives each race three tailored and publicly known objectives of which they can fulfill one during the game.

    -Haven't tried them but I don't think the whole distant suns/artifacts optional rule would be very fun. Seems like it would introduce the single biggest weakness that Eclipse had: too much of a luck factor in exploring neighboring systems. In fact that weakness is the one reason I prefer TI over Eclipse.

    -Yeah the decks could probably go with a little trimming.



    MrBody on
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I placed both A wormholes.

    Yeah the only strategy I could see for the Yin was somehow get XRD transporters + flagship and kit them out with ground forces so you would have 18 GF/fighters 2 Transports and the flagship as a single attack group with your destroyers as a screening field around your holdings.

    The main benefit of the suicidal destroyers is what you used them for, taking out warsuns or transports so you also get the things they carry.

    Yin really don't deserve such crappy trade agreements 1/3 or 2/2 would make them playable... I think.

    I kinda like the trade 2 influence or resources at the end of the turn for trade goods idea... but at best it should be limited to like 3 TGs per turn.

    Distant suns/artifacts change the game dramatically, instead of everyone gong for goals it becomes very much about map control, which while important in the base game is not everything.

    Not sure how to make the political card more useful, or if it needs to be, it seems like the kind of thing you choose last because everything else you wanted was taken, so that you get first choice next turn.

    Maybe if you added "this card can be spent as a trade good" to a few of the more.. situational.. action cards it would improve them a little.

    Void Slayer on
    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Yea I had a bunch of action cards that only applied to neutral planets, so after 2-3 rounds those cards are pretty much useless. So you getting one of those while your neighbor gets a flank speed/sabotage/direct hit are a pretty big swing.

    PSN SeGaTai
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Yeah flank speed is absolutely game changing crazy.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Yeah the only strategy I could see for the Yin was somehow get XRD transporters + flagship and kit them out with ground forces so you would have 18 GF/fighters 2 Transports and the flagship as a single attack group with your destroyers as a screening field around your holdings.

    The main benefit of the suicidal destroyers is what you used them for, taking out warsuns or transports so you also get the things they carry.

    But the Yin flagship is only 1 movement so it would slow down the XRD carriers. Having only 1 movement speed was the main thing I saw as making most of the flagships not worth it (1 movement combined with having to produce it all the way back in your home system). Also dreadnauts are a rather poor cost efficient combat unit, but it's their 1 movement speed that's the nail in the coffin and the tech that increases their movement speed is far too advanced on the tree to get. That was another thing with dreadnauts: way too many spread out techs to reach their full potential so you're much better off just going for war suns.

    I also think even if Yin did get that flagship setup it would be easy for someone to just grab defense turrets off of (mandatory) Hylar lasers to easily counter it. Even without that I still wouldn't say it compares to Muaat movement 3 war suns (who also get a strong early game with the starting war sun) or Jol-Nar late game tech.

    Kamikaze against War Suns was only viable if you had a direct hit card, and even that's iffy since there are two different cards that cancel it out (sabotage and emergency repairs).

  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    One thing I would be willing to try in a future game is the suggested 'pre-made' board layout that somewhat equalizes starting positions. It's not perfect, but it seems like it might address some of the problems that crop up when one or two players get lousy tiles.

    It would also drop about a week off the play time ;)

    Currently Playing:
    The Division, Warframe (XB1)
    GT: Tanith 6227
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    A week for setup is small when you pair it against the fact that each round of play takes about a month, heh. I favor player-directed galaxy creation because it's more interesting... Void Slayer's suggestion for a final round of race and starting location selection sounds pretty interesting as well.

    Let's talk about house rules!

    For Mechanized Units, objectives that deal with Ground Forces will also include Mechanized Units. I'm thinking that effects that can destroy Ground Forces can also effect Mechanized Units (e.g. PDS fire in Invasion Combat), but only in a limited fashion - they may be at most damaged but not destroyed unless they're engaged in Invasion Combat. Allowing them to be destroyed out of combat might make them too weak, so I think the limited effects will be more appropriate.

    I'm planning on keeping the standard Secret Objectives - I don't really have much belief in any of the Racial Objective sets I've seen so far. However, I will probably be making minor adjustments to some of the conditions and will probably implement a 'draw two, select one' approach.

    As for Public Objectives, I think the variant combining the open Objective list with the Bureaucracy unlocking could be interesting. In the variant, all Objectives are laid out openly at the start of the game, but all but the first are locked from being claimed. The Bureaucracy card then instead unlocks Objective cards so that they may be then claimed. With the open Objective list and Secret Objective choice, it might make sense to go to 10 VP instead of 9 VP. I'm still thinking about that one. I'm also planning on a few tweaks to the deck composition.

    I'm not going to be touching the text of the Action and Political cards, though - instead, I'll winnow down the size of the decks so that the weakest and most conditional cards are removed. I've already put some work into it, and I already have a decklist I feel good about. As mentioned previously, the 170-card Action card deck will be cut to 120, while the 110-card Political deck will be cut to 60. The latter modification should make Assembly a bit more interesting so that all the votes have more impact. I'm considering the rule where Political Cards cannot be spent for Trade Goods, but instead come with a Trade Good packed in instead.

    I think that's the major changes, as far as things set in stone. Changing to the alternate, flat and wide tech tree seems interesting but it's a major change I'm still on the fence about. The ability to purchase Trade Goods at the start of the Status Phase seems neat but I'll need to think about it a bit more. I'll probably allow for Shock Troops to stand on their own without an accompanying friendly Ground unit. I might have a small modification for the Warfare II card to make its secondary a bit less situational. Other than that, I'm still undecided.

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Yeah default shock troop rules are so fiddly it didn't even seem worth including them. So insanely situational to both get them and meet the conditions where they'd actually get to capture a structure.

  • TayrunTayrun Registered User regular
    This thread has been a real entertaining read for a sleepless night. Thanks all!

    Is there a signup list for TI or somesuch?

    3DS: 5257-9337-8263
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    There's no signup list, no - but I'll be sure to link to the new game here once I decide it's time to run. Considering how much I've been thinking about it, it could be sooner than later.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    Maybe if you could buy shock troops for 1 resource each? limit buying of them somehow to prevent whole armies of shock troops, like if you already have 3 you can't buy more or something.

    I think if you made the warfare secondary allow ships to move their full movement between two controlled sectors and they could pick up and drop off like in normal movement it would be much better even if you still limited it to only 2 ships. That might even be stronger then the primary ability...

    I would be really interested n the warfare II modification.

    I have to agree Muaat starting with a warsun, and the ability to make them, is a really big advantage. The racial tech one basically negates the negative entirely AND reduces warsun costs by 2. Just for some perspective, if I had warfare and flanking speed I could have had a warsun that moved 5 sectors...

    I like the open objective, but it would be fun if the Mecatol Rex card was still hidden somehow and the order was not clear. Maybe if you revealed all the cards (and wrote them down for an in person game) then shuffled the decks, so you would know which cards would appear eventually, but not the order?

    I thought the yin flagship had 2 movement for some reason... yeah that is terrible. It's suppose to be a super carrier, WHY IS IT SLOW. Maybe if the yin flagship automatically generated 2 ground forces during the status phase for the fleet it was in? I don't know.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Re: Shock Troop purchasing: There's already a hard limit on the number of Shock Troops in the game, 12 across all players. I'd rather them not be made purchasable since they're so limited. I plan to just leave them as a small bonus for the lucky.


    Re: Warfare II modifications: My proposed Warfare II secondary ability modification basically combines the secondary of both Warfare cards (darkorange text indicating changes to the original):

    Secondary Ability: Reinforce Spend 1 Command Counter from your Strategy Allocation area to move up to two of your ships from unactivated systems into any adjacent systems that do not contain enemy units. Then place one of your Command Counters from your reinforcements in each destination system that you did not control before the movement.

    If you move ships between controlled systems, it acts like the original Warfare II secondary. But now you can patrol into empty areas at the cost of activating those systems, much like the Warfare I secondary. it actually makes playing on the Warfare secondary fairly appealing - perhaps even too much so...


    Re: Open objectives: That's one way of doing it, I could be interested in trying that. It tends fairly close to the rules as written, only with an initial step of revealing what objectives will be in the game. The way open objectives were presented in the house rules MrBody linked to, while there is still an order to the Objective cards, the player activating the Bureaucracy primary can choose any Objective card to unlock. Of course, to prevent the leader from simply selecting Imperium Rex early in the game, Stage II cards may not be selected until five Stage I cards are unlocked, and Imperium Rex can only be selected if at most one objective ahead of it is unlocked (thus emulating the objective card draw in the rules as written).

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • TayrunTayrun Registered User regular
    Also, thought I'd mention, the numerous references in this thread cracked my resolve and I'm finally watching Death Note.

    Pretty good so far.

    3DS: 5257-9337-8263
  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    A week for setup is small when you pair it against the fact that each round of play takes about a month, heh. I favor player-directed galaxy creation because it's more interesting... Void Slayer's suggestion for a final round of race and starting location selection sounds pretty interesting as well.
    I don't disagree, but in my experience, player-directed galaxy creation has always effectively eliminated at least one player from contention from the get-go.

    Currently Playing:
    The Division, Warframe (XB1)
    GT: Tanith 6227
  • FidohFidoh BelgiumRegistered User regular
    Two ways to go about galaxy creation, I think.

    - give people a balanced hand of systems at the start
    - use a preset map

  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    Fidoh wrote: »
    Two ways to go about galaxy creation, I think.

    - give people a balanced hand of systems at the start
    - use a preset map

    I like the balanced hand idea. Galaxy creation is just flat-out fun. Getting taken out of the game on turn 0 because you drew five blank tiles and a nebula isn't.

    I've also had good fun with the Distant Suns option, and its slightly less flukey variant (can't recall the name, but systems bordering HSs only get low-risk, low-reward tokens.

    caliberIron Weasel
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Yea the galaxy creation is a fun part of the game, if the game didn't take quite so long it would make the freedom of the galaxy creation phase not have as much weight/emphasis to getting it right.

    In this context I still like random, with the possibility of the host just doing a reshuffle before dealing if one player is just given nothing to work with.

    Knowing that everyone else has a more or less balanced hand to start with takes away the surprise factor in what is left to be placed. You might consider playing your blank tile in front of your opponent in the hopes that he has a good tile that will be forced to be played in front of yours. Given a balanced hand you have a much better chance of knowing what kind of tiles the remaining players have. The board creation also lets you deal with the group think of how strong certain races are. Based on this game, if we started over again I would throw every junky system in front of the muaat homeworld I could and expect others to do the same.

    So yea stick to random or if you really want balanced you have to go with the preset, but it does take away one of the fun(not balanced) aspects of the game.

    PSN SeGaTai
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I'd say random galaxy creation is the way to go...for experienced players. I think it only works if everyone knows the relative strength of the races as well as the skill and track record of every player at the table. Right now I would know to sabotage Yssaril Tribes and Muaat while Yin can have all the great planets they want, but beyond that I'm clueless.

    One suggestion though: add a small amount of choice to races, something like deal 2 to each player and they pick one (or deal them one and they have the choice to keep it or draw another and they have to keep the 2nd one). I wouldn't want to see anyone get stuck with Yin again, and while Sol looks decent they also look boring.

    MrBody on
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    One suggestion though: add a small amount of choice to races, something like deal 2 to each player and they pick one. I wouldn't want to see anyone get stuck with Yin again, and while Sol looks decent they also look boring.

    I usually (all two times!) allow players in my RL games to take a mulligan on race draws. It's slightly more restrictive than 'draw two choose one' (you might, after all, like your new race less) while still allowing people to not, for example, play the same race twice in a row.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I'm open to playing pretty much any race regardless of where they fall on the competitive scale. Like the race that can build off of ground forces; everyone says they're kind of weak but at least it sounds interesting. It's just the Yin are a joke race and Sol doesn't look terribly exciting.

    Basically just some sort of built in mulligan to avoid the Yin :(

    MrBody on
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Re: Galaxy Creation: Well, the good thing about having a moderator in charge of the game is that if balance in system hands is needed, then the moderator can easily rig the piles' compositions. The tile mix comprises 4 special systems, 8 empty systems, and 20 regular systems, from which two are randomly removed before system hands are drawn. A simple way to try and balance out the draw while still having some randomness in a real-life game is to follow the standard procedure but have a re-draw if someone does not have a hand that contains either one or two special or empty systems. It might be the case that in real life the probability of a redraw may be high (I'll need to check) but in an online environment, a host can easily check through random distributions until one fits the criteria. This procedure doesn't protect against some peoples' regular systems being better than others, but it helps make things a bit more even.

    On the other hand, implementing a round after galaxy creation to select both race and starting position could provide sufficient incentive to make balanced positions out of the gate even if the hands players get are not completely balanced. So I might just go with a straight initial galaxy-creation procedure instead of doing anything especially tricky.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • FidohFidoh BelgiumRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    We use 4 system pools:
    - empty systems + empty wormhole systems
    - red bordered systems
    - planets
    - good planets (every system with a combined total of 6 resources+influence)

    These are all shuffled and then players get 1 empty, 1 red border, 2 with planets, 1 with good planets. Make sure that the wormhole+planet systems are included.

    That's just how we do things, and it's an option. But I trust a host to make the distribution of planet tiles at least not awfully unbalanced.

    ---

    Re: Race Selection: We give everyone two races. They have to pick one. If you draw the race you played last time, you can switch it. Also, we ban Yin (too bad) and Yssaril (too good).

    ---

    Re: Ground Forces: I'd suggest banning Mechanized Units and Shock Troops.

    Fidoh on
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    I was also thinking that maybe ground forces should have to be targeted by bombardment and PDS fire before mechanized unit? meh not sure.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    170 action cards! Man I had no idea.

    Yeah outright banning mech units might be easier than trying all those house rules. Try a game without them to see if it becomes a mess where you need to include them again? Really the only reason I can see for them existing is Jol-Nar's pathetic invasion chances with -1 ground forces, but then it's also not too difficult for them to get the bacterial weapon tech.

  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Mechanized Units have always been an optional component, having only been introduced in the second expansion. Being that Invasion Combat worked fine enough before their introduction, we already know that the game works without Mechanized Units. I like them though, since it gives Invasion Combat a little more variety. We'll see if the house rules rein them in a little bit. In regards to Void Slayer's suggestion, the person taking the hits gets to choose which units are eliminated, so I'm going with that ruling in the house variant (allowing damage on Mechanized Units in bombardment and PDS Fire).

    In regards to Fidoh's galaxy creation remarks, one thing that bothers me about the even stacks is that it introduces two additional red-bordered systems into the game, where the original specifications have only four red-bordered systems in the mix. It might not actually make that big of a difference, but it's one of those things that gets to me.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • FidohFidoh BelgiumRegistered User regular
    Maybe I'm mistaken about those red borders. I'll check with my group.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    I didn't realize until late in this game just how big a disadvantage Jol-Nar's -1 penalty is. It makes another race's destroyers (with Hylar laser) almost just as good as Jol-nar cruisers o_O

    caliber
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I was thinking about the house rule to allow unused resources and influence to be exhausted in the Status phase to gain Trade Goods at a 2:1 ratio and had an idea for implementation to make them interesting. If this ability is done at the start of the Status phase, then there's no choices involved in performing the action - just exhaust what you didn't use. On the other hand, if the ability is a Refresh ability, then that brings about some interesting choices. For example, if you have a lot of Influence, conversion into Trade Goods helps support your production economy. However, if it is a Refresh ability, its influence will be unavailable for voting - which could have larger consequences with a trimmed Politics deck. The influence will also be unavailable for buying Command Counters under Leadership as well; if you don't expect Leadership to be taken, then perhaps it's a good idea to convert influence to Trade Goods - but it's a gamble!

    I'm thinking that this could be a good way to implement this house rule; I'll probably also put a 3 Trade Good limit on it so it doesn't get too out of hand.

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
    Iron Weasel
  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    I would be happy to help test some of these house rules in a 'live' environment.

    Currently Playing:
    The Division, Warframe (XB1)
    GT: Tanith 6227
  • FidohFidoh BelgiumRegistered User regular
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I was thinking about the house rule to allow unused resources and influence to be exhausted in the Status phase to gain Trade Goods at a 2:1 ratio and had an idea for implementation to make them interesting. If this ability is done at the start of the Status phase, then there's no choices involved in performing the action - just exhaust what you didn't use. On the other hand, if the ability is a Refresh ability, then that brings about some interesting choices. For example, if you have a lot of Influence, conversion into Trade Goods helps support your production economy. However, if it is a Refresh ability, its influence will be unavailable for voting - which could have larger consequences with a trimmed Politics deck. The influence will also be unavailable for buying Command Counters under Leadership as well; if you don't expect Leadership to be taken, then perhaps it's a good idea to convert influence to Trade Goods - but it's a gamble!

    I'm thinking that this could be a good way to implement this house rule; I'll probably also put a 3 Trade Good limit on it so it doesn't get too out of hand.

    It's an interesting idea, but I don't think I would ever use it except in cases like "I need 4 trade goods at the end of the round for that one objective, and there's no other way to get them".



  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    You should certainly be able to use the R value instead of the I value though if your doing that. I mean trading 2 R for 1 trade good is already such a waste I don't see why it should not be allowed.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Fidoh wrote: »
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I was thinking about the house rule to allow unused resources and influence to be exhausted in the Status phase to gain Trade Goods at a 2:1 ratio and had an idea for implementation to make them interesting. If this ability is done at the start of the Status phase, then there's no choices involved in performing the action - just exhaust what you didn't use. On the other hand, if the ability is a Refresh ability, then that brings about some interesting choices. For example, if you have a lot of Influence, conversion into Trade Goods helps support your production economy. However, if it is a Refresh ability, its influence will be unavailable for voting - which could have larger consequences with a trimmed Politics deck. The influence will also be unavailable for buying Command Counters under Leadership as well; if you don't expect Leadership to be taken, then perhaps it's a good idea to convert influence to Trade Goods - but it's a gamble!

    I'm thinking that this could be a good way to implement this house rule; I'll probably also put a 3 Trade Good limit on it so it doesn't get too out of hand.

    It's an interesting idea, but I don't think I would ever use it except in cases like "I need 4 trade goods at the end of the round for that one objective, and there's no other way to get them".

    The point of making the conversion potential a Refresh ability is to change it from being a pure bonus for being unable to exhaust your worlds (see the two rounds from this game where Leadership was not chosen for an example of potential) to making it a decision of some weight. I don't expect it to be used often, but it's an option available to those who need it. I can certainly see some consideration to its use if your worlds are under risk of invasion from an opponent and you want to be assured something from the planet or if you have an excess of influence and want to get more resources (or more rarely, vice versa). Just to be clear, yes, resources can be used as well as influence in conversion.

    I think I'm far enough in development that I can probably put a signup thread for a new game up sometime next week. Hope people are interested!

    4463rwiq7r47.png
    Iron Weasel
  • FidohFidoh BelgiumRegistered User regular
    Very interested!

    Can you be sure to put in "Fighter and GFs cost 0,5 resources"? That way you'd be able to spend 1TG for a fighter and a GF. That'd be nice. :3

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Isn't that how it already is?

  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    Nope. In the RAW, you have to either buy 2 GFs or 2 fighters; it specifically says that you can't split.

    Currently Playing:
    The Division, Warframe (XB1)
    GT: Tanith 6227
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Heh, the Lazax in the special scenario just jumped ahead of Yin, putting them dead last.

    http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/144814/twilight-imperium-race-ranking-by-thumbs-up

  • stever777stever777 AFK most Saturdays Registered User regular
    Bite me!

    Hosting Android: Netrunner - Thread 2: The Revenge

    The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
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