Well, like I said, I'm sticking to my choices. I'm not going for optimal endings for everyone. If they won't be reasonable, then they're gonna learn from the school of hard knocks. The world has moved on in the days since the Vault Dweller. The wasteland doesn't need them anymore. Not like they were doing anything useful beforehand.
Nope, I've decided. Gonna kill em this run through.
The Brotherhood is a joke at this point. The NCR kicked their ass, every one of their scouting patrols I looked for was slaughtered. I think the highlight for me was the Boomer expedition, "Oh yeah, these locals are a joke, take care of business yada yada."
And you find the Paladin exactly where you expect, blown to pieces by howitzer rounds.
They simply have no connection to the world anymore, and have completely lost touch that their technology does not make them the strongest. It's a shame to see how far they've fallen from the cloistered, but helpful order you meet in Fallout 1. THAT Brotherhood, the real Brotherhood, had no problem trading for supplies with locals, even sharing some of their lesser guns. They helped Shady Sands get on their feet, and fought the armies of the Master. Some guys like Rhombus were jerks, but on a whole they were good guys. Flash forward a few hundred years and their proud order has rusted away.
The "Brotherhood" in New Vegas consists of all, what, 30 Troopers? Probably less. Engine/Production cost issues aside, the NCR feels like a major faction far more. They're covering a far larger territory, are holding THE key positions - Hoover Dam, Helios, Vault 22 to an extent, - and they actually get things done. The Brotherhood feels as much a proper representation of their whole regime as the Atomic Wrangler does to the Strip.
Well, from the info I've gathered in game, that seems a deliberate choice. The NCR has, possibly, a hundred thousand soldiers. Their population was 700,000 decades ago in Fallout 2. Only a fraction are fighting the Legion, but they're an absolute powerhouse. Obviously there's a real risk of collapse if the Legion builds momentum, but the NCR is ridiculously strong.
Even in my goody-two-shoes playthroughs, I can't resist going into those situations swinging at least once. Like, take a shitload of drugs, and when you're inevitably disarmed just Hulk out, beat the crap out of the nearest guy, grab his weapons and go to town.
Sadly, the BoS are one giant No Fun Zone for this approach. I don't even remember if you get the chance to fight out of their little intro quest, at least not until you're on the surface again.
Yeah, it's mostly that the Brotherhood aren't a major faction in the Mojave anymore. Their tech lets them punch above their weight, but they don't have the ability to be a genuine threat to the other factions. They're not much more than better armed and trained raiders at this point.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
The Brotherhood is a joke at this point. The NCR kicked their ass, every one of their scouting patrols I looked for was slaughtered. I think the highlight for me was the Boomer expedition, "Oh yeah, these locals are a joke, take care of business yada yada."
And you find the Paladin exactly where you expect, blown to pieces by howitzer rounds.
They simply have no connection to the world anymore, and have completely lost touch that their technology does not make them the strongest. It's a shame to see how far they've fallen from the cloistered, but helpful order you meet in Fallout 1. THAT Brotherhood, the real Brotherhood, had no problem trading for supplies with locals, even sharing some of their lesser guns. They helped Shady Sands get on their feet, and fought the armies of the Master. Some guys like Rhombus were jerks, but on a whole they were good guys. Flash forward a few hundred years and their proud order has rusted away.
Rhombus was a good guy. He was just a jerkish good guy. Ending slides confirm it.
And the reason the Brotherhood is so screwed up is twofold.
1) Jeremy Maxson is the worst leader ever.
2) The Brotherhood just keeps exiling (or functionally exiling) the people who could turn it around. Veronica's the latest, but they've been doing it since shortly after Fallout 1. The ones who wanted to expand their membership got exiled to Chicago, Lyons got shoved aside for being too goody two shoes, and I'm sure there's dozens more in between the big wipes. Just those exiles didn't go on to build empires.
The stone that was rejected becomes the capstone. Meanwhile, the stones they kept just get mossy.
Even in my goody-two-shoes playthroughs, I can't resist going into those situations swinging at least once. Like, take a shitload of drugs, and when you're inevitably disarmed just Hulk out, beat the crap out of the nearest guy, grab his weapons and go to town.
Sadly, the BoS are one giant No Fun Zone for this approach. I don't even remember if you get the chance to fight out of their little intro quest, at least not until you're on the surface again.
Unfortunately, all that power armor won't help them with what I have in mind.
It involves power armor, anti material rifles, and Boone.
I was more thinking that such a small group doesn't nessecarely reflect the Brotherhood as a whole. Just like some parts of the NCR are out of line.
I suppose it doesn't make a difference though, as any choice you make in New Vegas only really relates to the piece of land you get to explore and nothing beyond that.
I've only played 3 and New Vegas, so I can't be absolutely positive, but my impression's always been that the New Vegas and "outcast" brotherhood in 3 are really the Brotherhood orthodoxy. I'm sure whatever other chapters there are are probably making do a little better than the Mojave one though, as it's been absolutely hammered since the NCR swallowed up the region.
I've only played 3 and New Vegas, so I can't be absolutely positive, but my impression's always been that the New Vegas and "outcast" brotherhood in 3 are really the Brotherhood orthodoxy. I'm sure whatever other chapters there are are probably making do a little better than the Mojave one though, as it's been absolutely hammered since the NCR swallowed up the region.
Hopefully in all regards. Not military might but moreso beliefs and political desicions.
I've only played 3 and New Vegas, so I can't be absolutely positive, but my impression's always been that the New Vegas and "outcast" brotherhood in 3 are really the Brotherhood orthodoxy. I'm sure whatever other chapters there are are probably making do a little better than the Mojave one though, as it's been absolutely hammered since the NCR swallowed up the region.
The Mid West Brotherhood in Tactics is probably the strongest by far. Even the weakest "good" ending has them discovering a massive stash of technology inside Vault Zero. All the other ones have them re-tasking a massive prewar stock of robots into their armed forces. The largest is this:
Those are quad linked 50. cal machine guns. It will turn a squad of Brotherhood soldiers in advanced power armor to bloody chunks in seconds.
Now, I know people distrust Tactics' canon status, but it's gotten enough references to be broad strokes at this point. Vault Zero may not have been the command and control center for all Vaults, but it's likely it was just an advanced bunker to preserve whomever the US Government/Vault Tech wanted (which is hinted in the game anyway).
Now I want something mechanical and behemoth sized that I can kill, raid for parts, limp back to base, and rebuild. Preferably decorated with deathclaw corpses and decorated along the design philosophy of an Ork Gargant.
Now I want something mechanical and behemoth sized that I can kill, raid for parts, limp back to base, and rebuild. Preferably decorated with deathclaw corpses and decorated along the design philosophy of an Ork Gargant.
Fallouthammer 40K: Tau Vegas: Brotherhood of Human Kickassery
Tactics got a lot right, I'm sad it takes so much flak from a certain subsect of fans. The Robot kill sheds where humans are horribly mutilated and dissembled are as dark as anything in the other games. The special encounters were hilarious too.
The ending cutscene was badass too, literally the Fallout version of Terminator. Quite fitting since those films are in the post apocalypse genre, and referenced by the other games.
I'm going to try it now, but if I kill the Brotherhood the NCR won't stop working with me right? I'll just fail whatever quest they sent me on to recruit them?
That was a strange rampage, but cathartic. I killed Paladin jerk face or whatever his name was and a good part of the Brotherhood. However, when I went back to grab some loot and revive Boone I noticed several of the Brotherhood initiates hadn't gone hostile. I ripped off as much as I could carry, and put on the T-51b. Of course, now I was disguised as a member of the Brotherhood, and waltzed out of the place having just punched the heads off all their top badasses.
Veronica is pretty adorable, she still seems peppy even though I just wrecked half her crew.
Tactics got a lot right, I'm sad it takes so much flak from a certain subsect of fans. The Robot kill sheds where humans are horribly mutilated and dissembled are as dark as anything in the other games. The special encounters were hilarious too.
The ending cutscene was badass too, literally the Fallout version of Terminator. Quite fitting since those films are in the post apocalypse genre, and referenced by the other games.
Yeah, all told I really enjoyed Tactics. The extent to which it fits in canon is debatable (I think it fits fine with some simple adjustments) but I thought it did a fine job as a strategy game in the Fallout universe. Progressing to new threats felt properly dangerous, and required major adjustments to weapons and tactics. By no means perfect - there are certainly better strategy games on the market - but I enjoyed every mission.
The "Brotherhood" in New Vegas consists of all, what, 30 Troopers? Probably less. Engine/Production cost issues aside, the NCR feels like a major faction far more. They're covering a far larger territory, are holding THE key positions - Hoover Dam, Helios, Vault 22 to an extent, - and they actually get things done. The Brotherhood feels as much a proper representation of their whole regime as the Atomic Wrangler does to the Strip.
I'd say the Vegas chapter is a better representation of what the brotherhood of steel is really like as a whole rather than something like Lyons' renegades.
They have no real endgame, they had an idea of how to start out but they never really figured out what to do with all that machinery. Civilization is returning to the world like the NCR and they're refusing to accept it, even as they get their ass kicked by it.
The real BOS aren't heroes, they're just crazy tech nerds who have no idea what they're doing anymore.
Agreed. They had a mission, once, but they got stuck on Step 1, "Gather all the tech you can find." There were other steps, when the time was right... but the time will never be right, the outsiders will never be "worthy" of access to the Brotherhood's hoards. And so they just sit on their piles of useless relics, becoming fewer and fewer and more and more out of touch each year, each decade, as the civilization that their founders may have intended to help rebuild does so without them.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Agreed. They had a mission, once, but they got stuck on Step 1, "Gather all the tech you can find." There were other steps, when the time was right... but the time will never be right, the outsiders will never be "worthy" of access to the Brotherhood's hoards. And so they just sit on their piles of useless relics, becoming fewer and fewer and more and more out of touch each year, each decade, as the civilization that their founders may have intended to help rebuild does so without them.
Well, back in Fallout 1 they were onto step 2 "Work on making it better" and in Fallout 2 they reached step 3, "Slowly distribute to the locals" after splitting with the faction that advocated step 3(a) "while kicking the ever-loving shit out of anyone who thinks about getting in our way"
It's just Jeremy Maxson was an asshole who figured step 3 was for suckers.
Game keeps freezing when I get Waking Cloud's perk....
Woot! Bug avoided! Although burned man shuffle is still weird.
Let the murder of tribals commence!
Joshua Graham is awesome, but you all already knew that. People weren't kidding about him being the strongest ally in the game. The climactic battle with the White Legs was more a case of, "duck behind Graham's aura of awesome as he kills fools from a half mile away with his 45."
The Survivalists story is incredibly screwed up. It's a nice contrast with Graham's story but its downright depressing to read through. The ending has a tiny bit of hope, but it's not much.
I liked Daniels character more than I thought I would. He's not weak, but he does have unrealistic expectations of how the world works. I don't think he considered that you could work with Graham to crush the White Legs without him becoming a monster again.
The Yao Guai in Zion are terrifying.
manwiththemachinegun on
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Joshua was my favorite character in the game.
I can only imagine how crazy he would be if they had stuck to the original version of him as this ultimate version of the evil companion.
I think that the destruction of the Enclave was what really pushed the BoS towards their current position. They were afraid of what would happen if so much advanced technology fell into the hands of those who weren't ready for it. In a way they were right and their fears were realized with what happened at the Divide. It's too bad they didn't work that more into the BoS's reasoning for wanting to hoard tech.
I'm going through New Vegas again, currently doing Old World Blues. I forgot how much that place was a pain for a character who doesn't have any Energy Weapons skill.
I did learn two things that, in combination, i'm quite grateful for.
1) Cazadors can't open doors, and
2) Hunting Shotgun is absolutely absurd when it's all modded up and it's using slug rounds.
So apparently I completely sequence broke recruiting Cassidy. I went spoiler free as far as locating companions went, and finally started exploring each city top to bottom. Apparently she's one of the first NPCs you can meet, though her quest bounces you around to the Crimson Caravan.
Anyway, chatted with her, got her dad's mouth for sure. But when I spoke to her for the first time she referenced settling a score with the Van Graffs, since I had killed them already for the Brotherhood of Steel (at least to get my power armor training).
So... I'm hoping it doesn't mess up her actually joining my party. I'm doing the quest trail now.
Oh yeah and I uh... visited Vault 11. Milgram eat your heart out.
I think that the destruction of the Enclave was what really pushed the BoS towards their current position. They were afraid of what would happen if so much advanced technology fell into the hands of those who weren't ready for it. In a way they were right and their fears were realized with what happened at the Divide. It's too bad they didn't work that more into the BoS's reasoning for wanting to hoard tech.
The problem though is that wasn't their call to make. As survivors of the pre-war U.S. government they just set up shop with relative ease and went back to being assholes. The Enclave had nothing to do with technology "falling" in to the wrong hands, they MADE the technology. The Brotherhood just hordes it.
I think that the destruction of the Enclave was what really pushed the BoS towards their current position. They were afraid of what would happen if so much advanced technology fell into the hands of those who weren't ready for it. In a way they were right and their fears were realized with what happened at the Divide. It's too bad they didn't work that more into the BoS's reasoning for wanting to hoard tech.
The problem though is that wasn't their call to make. As survivors of the pre-war U.S. government they just set up shop with relative ease and went back to being assholes. The Enclave had nothing to do with technology "falling" in to the wrong hands, they MADE the technology. The Brotherhood just hordes it.
And the BoS was worried about what was happening after the Enclave fell. There was a great risk of Enclave technology and secrets being proliferated into the Wasteland after the destruction of the Poseidon Oil Rig.
NCR was actively making a grab for all that Enclave tech seeing as how they actually took over Navarro. The BoS was concerned with the NCR meddling with tech they didn't understand and causing some huge catastrophe. The BoS's greatest fear was probably the NCR or some other unprepared people getting their hands on a WMD like the FEV or nuclear missiles and then accidentally unleashing it upon the world (or the BoS).
I think that the destruction of the Enclave was what really pushed the BoS towards their current position. They were afraid of what would happen if so much advanced technology fell into the hands of those who weren't ready for it. In a way they were right and their fears were realized with what happened at the Divide. It's too bad they didn't work that more into the BoS's reasoning for wanting to hoard tech.
The problem though is that wasn't their call to make. As survivors of the pre-war U.S. government they just set up shop with relative ease and went back to being assholes. The Enclave had nothing to do with technology "falling" in to the wrong hands, they MADE the technology. The Brotherhood just hordes it.
And the BoS was worried about what was happening after the Enclave fell. There was a great risk of Enclave technology and secrets being proliferated into the Wasteland after the destruction of the Poseidon Oil Rig.
NCR was actively making a grab for all that Enclave tech seeing as how they actually took over Navarro. The BoS was concerned with the NCR meddling with tech they didn't understand and causing some huge catastrophe. The BoS's greatest fear was probably the NCR or some other unprepared people getting their hands on a WMD like the FEV or nuclear missiles and then accidentally unleashing it upon the world (or the BoS).
I'll take your word for it, there's so much dialogue in the game I'm bound to miss something here or there.
The radioactive Vault was a pain to get through. So many twisting halls and no real clue how you're supposed to work through it.
You can learn more of what happened to the Enclave by doing Arcade's quest. And Chris Avellone gave more details about what happened to the Divide on his blog on Obsidian's site.
That's a reasonably good motivation for the BoS to want to prevent the proliferation of advanced tech in the wasteland. Of course, they're probably more worried about self preservation and don't want something like what happened to the Divide to happen near them.
Yeah....that needed to be in the game. Too much in Lonesome Road was left unexplained and things are said that feel like there's an assumption that you should know stuff that the game never tells you.
That stuff.
Which is actually kinda cool.
And should have been in there. Anywhere.
You can kind of piece it together from everything Ulysses says to you over the course of the DLC but there's still a lot of 'huh?' there without that kinda important information.
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Nope, I've decided. Gonna kill em this run through.
and it's really fun if you do it with conventional arms, too
my survivalist guy used a .50 rifle and improvised explosives
felt like a total hard-ass by the end of it
And you find the Paladin exactly where you expect, blown to pieces by howitzer rounds.
They simply have no connection to the world anymore, and have completely lost touch that their technology does not make them the strongest. It's a shame to see how far they've fallen from the cloistered, but helpful order you meet in Fallout 1. THAT Brotherhood, the real Brotherhood, had no problem trading for supplies with locals, even sharing some of their lesser guns. They helped Shady Sands get on their feet, and fought the armies of the Master. Some guys like Rhombus were jerks, but on a whole they were good guys. Flash forward a few hundred years and their proud order has rusted away.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Sadly, the BoS are one giant No Fun Zone for this approach. I don't even remember if you get the chance to fight out of their little intro quest, at least not until you're on the surface again.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
Rhombus was a good guy. He was just a jerkish good guy. Ending slides confirm it.
And the reason the Brotherhood is so screwed up is twofold.
1) Jeremy Maxson is the worst leader ever.
2) The Brotherhood just keeps exiling (or functionally exiling) the people who could turn it around. Veronica's the latest, but they've been doing it since shortly after Fallout 1. The ones who wanted to expand their membership got exiled to Chicago, Lyons got shoved aside for being too goody two shoes, and I'm sure there's dozens more in between the big wipes. Just those exiles didn't go on to build empires.
The stone that was rejected becomes the capstone. Meanwhile, the stones they kept just get mossy.
Why I fear the ocean.
Unfortunately, all that power armor won't help them with what I have in mind.
It involves power armor, anti material rifles, and Boone.
It will not end well for the Brotherhood.
I suppose it doesn't make a difference though, as any choice you make in New Vegas only really relates to the piece of land you get to explore and nothing beyond that.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Hopefully in all regards. Not military might but moreso beliefs and political desicions.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
The Mid West Brotherhood in Tactics is probably the strongest by far. Even the weakest "good" ending has them discovering a massive stash of technology inside Vault Zero. All the other ones have them re-tasking a massive prewar stock of robots into their armed forces. The largest is this:
Those are quad linked 50. cal machine guns. It will turn a squad of Brotherhood soldiers in advanced power armor to bloody chunks in seconds.
Now, I know people distrust Tactics' canon status, but it's gotten enough references to be broad strokes at this point. Vault Zero may not have been the command and control center for all Vaults, but it's likely it was just an advanced bunker to preserve whomever the US Government/Vault Tech wanted (which is hinted in the game anyway).
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Fallouthammer 40K: Tau Vegas: Brotherhood of Human Kickassery
The ending cutscene was badass too, literally the Fallout version of Terminator. Quite fitting since those films are in the post apocalypse genre, and referenced by the other games.
I'm going to try it now, but if I kill the Brotherhood the NCR won't stop working with me right? I'll just fail whatever quest they sent me on to recruit them?
Just don't murder all of them or you can't get her as a companion ... her punching ability is second-to-none.
Veronica is pretty adorable, she still seems peppy even though I just wrecked half her crew.
Yeah, all told I really enjoyed Tactics. The extent to which it fits in canon is debatable (I think it fits fine with some simple adjustments) but I thought it did a fine job as a strategy game in the Fallout universe. Progressing to new threats felt properly dangerous, and required major adjustments to weapons and tactics. By no means perfect - there are certainly better strategy games on the market - but I enjoyed every mission.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
They have no real endgame, they had an idea of how to start out but they never really figured out what to do with all that machinery. Civilization is returning to the world like the NCR and they're refusing to accept it, even as they get their ass kicked by it.
The real BOS aren't heroes, they're just crazy tech nerds who have no idea what they're doing anymore.
Well, back in Fallout 1 they were onto step 2 "Work on making it better" and in Fallout 2 they reached step 3, "Slowly distribute to the locals" after splitting with the faction that advocated step 3(a) "while kicking the ever-loving shit out of anyone who thinks about getting in our way"
It's just Jeremy Maxson was an asshole who figured step 3 was for suckers.
Why I fear the ocean.
Woot! Bug avoided! Although burned man shuffle is still weird.
Let the murder of tribals commence!
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
The Survivalists story is incredibly screwed up. It's a nice contrast with Graham's story but its downright depressing to read through. The ending has a tiny bit of hope, but it's not much.
I liked Daniels character more than I thought I would. He's not weak, but he does have unrealistic expectations of how the world works. I don't think he considered that you could work with Graham to crush the White Legs without him becoming a monster again.
The Yao Guai in Zion are terrifying.
I can only imagine how crazy he would be if they had stuck to the original version of him as this ultimate version of the evil companion.
I did learn two things that, in combination, i'm quite grateful for.
1) Cazadors can't open doors, and
2) Hunting Shotgun is absolutely absurd when it's all modded up and it's using slug rounds.
Anyway, chatted with her, got her dad's mouth for sure. But when I spoke to her for the first time she referenced settling a score with the Van Graffs, since I had killed them already for the Brotherhood of Steel (at least to get my power armor training).
So... I'm hoping it doesn't mess up her actually joining my party. I'm doing the quest trail now.
Oh yeah and I uh... visited Vault 11. Milgram eat your heart out.
The problem though is that wasn't their call to make. As survivors of the pre-war U.S. government they just set up shop with relative ease and went back to being assholes. The Enclave had nothing to do with technology "falling" in to the wrong hands, they MADE the technology. The Brotherhood just hordes it.
And the BoS was worried about what was happening after the Enclave fell. There was a great risk of Enclave technology and secrets being proliferated into the Wasteland after the destruction of the Poseidon Oil Rig.
NCR was actively making a grab for all that Enclave tech seeing as how they actually took over Navarro. The BoS was concerned with the NCR meddling with tech they didn't understand and causing some huge catastrophe. The BoS's greatest fear was probably the NCR or some other unprepared people getting their hands on a WMD like the FEV or nuclear missiles and then accidentally unleashing it upon the world (or the BoS).
I'll take your word for it, there's so much dialogue in the game I'm bound to miss something here or there.
The radioactive Vault was a pain to get through. So many twisting halls and no real clue how you're supposed to work through it.
That's a reasonably good motivation for the BoS to want to prevent the proliferation of advanced tech in the wasteland. Of course, they're probably more worried about self preservation and don't want something like what happened to the Divide to happen near them.
That stuff.
Which is actually kinda cool.
And should have been in there. Anywhere.
You can kind of piece it together from everything Ulysses says to you over the course of the DLC but there's still a lot of 'huh?' there without that kinda important information.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand