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Volkswagen Is Told to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software
176
A Volkswagen assembly line in eastern Germany.
JENS MEYER / ASSOCIATED PRESS
By CORAL DAVENPORT
SEPTEMBER 18, 2015
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Friday directed Volkswagen to recall nearly a half million cars from the road, saying the German automaker used software intentionally designed to circumvent environmental standards for reducing smog.
The Environmental Protection Agency issued the company a notice of violation and accused the company of breaking the law by installing software known as a “defeat device” in 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15. The device is programmed to detect when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and to only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. Those controls are turned off during normal driving situations, when the vehicles pollute far more heavily than reported by the manufacturer, the E.P.A. said.
“Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health,” said Cynthia Giles, the E.P.A.’s assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance. “Working closely with the California Air Resources Board, E.P.A. is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules. E.P.A. will continue to investigate these very serious violations.”
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TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
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SUBSCRIBELOG INBusiness Day
Volkswagen Is Told to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software
176
A Volkswagen assembly line in eastern Germany.
JENS MEYER / ASSOCIATED PRESS
By CORAL DAVENPORT
SEPTEMBER 18, 2015
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Friday directed Volkswagen to recall nearly a half million cars from the road, saying the German automaker used software intentionally designed to circumvent environmental standards for reducing smog.
The Environmental Protection Agency issued the company a notice of violation and accused the company of breaking the law by installing software known as a “defeat device” in 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15. The device is programmed to detect when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and to only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. Those controls are turned off during normal driving situations, when the vehicles pollute far more heavily than reported by the manufacturer, the E.P.A. said.
“Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health,” said Cynthia Giles, the E.P.A.’s assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance. “Working closely with the California Air Resources Board, E.P.A. is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules. E.P.A. will continue to investigate these very serious violations.”
Please send all your R32s to me, we don't smog them here in FL and it's not really cheating if there's no test.
Volkswagen intentionally installed software in nearly a half-million diesel vehicles that helped the cars evade substandard results on emissions tests, the federal government charged Friday.
The Environmental Protection Agency issued a notice of violation to the German automaker, saying the company's software broke the law by violating two provisions in the Clean Air Act. Circumventing the standards meant affected cars emitted as much as 40 times the allowable level of certain pollutants.
Both the EPA and California Air Resources Board have launched investigations. In its notice of violations, the EPA said Volkswagen officials admitted to installing and concealing what they call a "defeat device," which was designed to detect when the cars were undergoing official emissions tests – and only turn on emissions controls during that time.
I assume the "defeat device" just turns on the EGR valve when emissions tests are being run. I can't think of anything else software-controllable that would affect emissions and engine efficiency but also not be noticeable. Something like a software-activated cat bypass valve would've been too obvious since it would require a physical difference in the exhaust system.
I assume the "defeat device" just turns on the EGR valve when emissions tests are being run. I can't think of anything else software-controllable that would affect emissions and engine efficiency but also not be noticeable. Something like a software-activated cat bypass valve would've been too obvious since it would require a physical difference in the exhaust system.
You can also play with ignition timing, air/fuel ratio, and variable valve timing to affect emissions.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I assume the "defeat device" just turns on the EGR valve when emissions tests are being run. I can't think of anything else software-controllable that would affect emissions and engine efficiency but also not be noticeable. Something like a software-activated cat bypass valve would've been too obvious since it would require a physical difference in the exhaust system.
You can also play with ignition timing, air/fuel ratio, and variable valve timing to affect emissions.
Can you dicker with ignition timing on a diesel? Glow plugs and all that. You could inject early, but... it's kinda a different situation than gas.
On the other hand, are these tdi? Fair amount of playing with boost and waste gates and such could be going on in that case. They don't look at power delivery do they? With a turbo you could basically make the motor a lot smaller than how you'd typically want to run.
The scandal broke Friday, when U.S. regulators said the German company had programmed some 500,000 vehicles to emit lower levels of harmful emissions in official tests than on the roads.
Volkswagen stunned investors Tuesday by admitting that the problem was much bigger than that: internal investigations had found significant discrepancies in 11 million vehicles worldwide.
Yeah, so...how does one say "fucked sideways" in German?
The scandal broke Friday, when U.S. regulators said the German company had programmed some 500,000 vehicles to emit lower levels of harmful emissions in official tests than on the roads.
Volkswagen stunned investors Tuesday by admitting that the problem was much bigger than that: internal investigations had found significant discrepancies in 11 million vehicles worldwide.
Yeah, so...how does one say "fucked sideways" in German?
They said it probably wasn't doing anything outside of the US, since the regs are different and the US is particularly harsh on NOx and not on CO2 like other countries. It's just the common ECU software for this engine. They're still in a mess of trouble, but doubt the additional cars means much for penalties.
The scandal broke Friday, when U.S. regulators said the German company had programmed some 500,000 vehicles to emit lower levels of harmful emissions in official tests than on the roads.
Volkswagen stunned investors Tuesday by admitting that the problem was much bigger than that: internal investigations had found significant discrepancies in 11 million vehicles worldwide.
Yeah, so...how does one say "fucked sideways" in German?
They said it probably wasn't doing anything outside of the US, since the regs are different and the US is particularly harsh on NOx and not on CO2 like other countries. It's just the common ECU software for this engine. They're still in a mess of trouble, but doubt the additional cars means much for penalties.
It's still a device meant to defeat testing, and it's still installed on those cars. Regulators all over Europe are asking pointed questions of VW.
Edit: It's worth remembering that this all started when a European clean air group, trying to prove that diesels are clean, tested VW TDI cars, and found discrepancies. They then asked their sibling group in the US to analyze as well, and, well...the dominoes began to topple.
I really wouldn't have pegged VW as a company to do something like this. I'm not a big fan of their cars or their sketchy reliability, but I'm shocked they tried a stunt like this.
I do, however, find it deliciously ironic that they were only found out because somebody was trying to prove how clean they were. Can you imagine the dawning horror of the researcher who just realized that the cause they were championing was a fraud?
I really wouldn't have pegged VW as a company to do something like this. I'm not a big fan of their cars or their sketchy reliability, but I'm shocked they tried a stunt like this.
I do, however, find it deliciously ironic that they were only found out because somebody was trying to prove how clean they were. Can you imagine the dawning horror of the researcher who just realized that the cause they were championing was a fraud?
I have to applaud the group for not just burying it to meet their agenda.
I really wouldn't have pegged VW as a company to do something like this. I'm not a big fan of their cars or their sketchy reliability, but I'm shocked they tried a stunt like this.
I do, however, find it deliciously ironic that they were only found out because somebody was trying to prove how clean they were. Can you imagine the dawning horror of the researcher who just realized that the cause they were championing was a fraud?
In general, trying to brag about who's car is cleanest is trying to find the shiniest turd. I own a TDI because it's cheap as hell to drive, not because I thought it was clean and I need a car even though I'd rather not drive if I could avoid it.
Of course, nobody else gives a crap about co2 anyway so we'll all be on venus2 in 100 years.
"Tesla’s just the start. Wait until we don’t even drive our cars anymore. Google’s prototype autonomous car is capsule-shaped and adorable, a design style meant to make robot cars familiar and non-threatening. But also: identical. Imagine, eventually, a sea of Google capsule cars and robotic Tesla Ubers whirring through the quiet streets that used to host a discordance of distinctive shells for their owner-occupants. Once commoditized, there’s little need for customization, since our identities, desires, and dreams will attach to other matters—the apps we run inside these cars, perhaps, or the ones we code furiously, heads buried in future tablets, while riding in them. And if you think the hypothetical Apple Car, rumored for 2019, will be any different in this respect, I invite you to take a look at the phone in your pocket."
"Tesla’s just the start. Wait until we don’t even drive our cars anymore. Google’s prototype autonomous car is capsule-shaped and adorable, a design style meant to make robot cars familiar and non-threatening. But also: identical. Imagine, eventually, a sea of Google capsule cars and robotic Tesla Ubers whirring through the quiet streets that used to host a discordance of distinctive shells for their owner-occupants. Once commoditized, there’s little need for customization, since our identities, desires, and dreams will attach to other matters—the apps we run inside these cars, perhaps, or the ones we code furiously, heads buried in future tablets, while riding in them. And if you think the hypothetical Apple Car, rumored for 2019, will be any different in this respect, I invite you to take a look at the phone in your pocket."
Don't really buy it, on account of car culture and the fact that the autonomous cars are still cheating pretty heavily.
Google's "car" isn't, really. Not at this point at least. They're designing it primarily as an interurban transport. The self-driving tech they have is meant to be used by the bigger manufacturers, though.
Plus they still have to figure out how to make them work in rain or snow.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I really wouldn't have pegged VW as a company to do something like this. I'm not a big fan of their cars or their sketchy reliability, but I'm shocked they tried a stunt like this.
I do, however, find it deliciously ironic that they were only found out because somebody was trying to prove how clean they were. Can you imagine the dawning horror of the researcher who just realized that the cause they were championing was a fraud?
It's not that surprising. They were the first or second car company that got caught cheating emissions standards in the 70's by the EPA. At some point during the 70's and 80's almost all car manufacturers did it. GM got busted for it in 95. They made sure the air conditioning was off, because the onboard computer had a higher idle speed when climate control was on. And if you tested the Cadillacs with the 4.9 liter engines with the AC off, they pass. Turn it on and they fail. Honda and Ford got caught in 98. Then it was kind of a quiet period till VW got caught again.
My favorite part about this is that adding the Adblue system which would have caused them to pass increased the manufacturing cost by $335 dollars. Even with markups and so forth, that adds about $900 to the consumer cost.
Adblue is such a simple thing that some of the manufacturers seem to be making as difficult as possible. PSA Peugeot Citroen in particular - apparently they have some kind of bag system for it so that you need to buy a prefilled container from a dealership instead of just fitting the vehicle with a tank that you can fill at a petrol station.
I can't help but feel that's going to come back to bite them.
Adblue is such a simple thing that some of the manufacturers seem to be making as difficult as possible. PSA Peugeot Citroen in particular - apparently they have some kind of bag system for it so that you need to buy a prefilled container from a dealership instead of just fitting the vehicle with a tank that you can fill at a petrol station.
I can't help but feel that's going to come back to bite them.
The problem is that urea is nasty stuff to handle, so there may be concerns from that standpoint.
Adblue is such a simple thing that some of the manufacturers seem to be making as difficult as possible. PSA Peugeot Citroen in particular - apparently they have some kind of bag system for it so that you need to buy a prefilled container from a dealership instead of just fitting the vehicle with a tank that you can fill at a petrol station.
I can't help but feel that's going to come back to bite them.
The problem is that urea is nasty stuff to handle, so there may be concerns from that standpoint.
Normal adblue bottles have a valve that mates with a screw fitting on the tank. You screw it on and push down and that opens up the valve. If the bottle only part drains before the tank fills, unscrewing the bottle closes the valve.
You can't really spill it unless you're really trying, plus it's not really any worse than say, brake fluid.
Germany is coming down hard on its biggest carmaker over the diesel-emissions crisis, giving Volkswagen just over a week to come up with a fix to a problem eight years in the making.
Yesterday, VW received a letter from Germany’s Federal Motor Transport Authority, signed by transport minister Alexander Dobrindt, demanding that it deliver a binding plan and schedule to fix the 11 million “cheat code” diesel cars by October 7.
If Volkswagen can’t present a viable solution by then, according to Dobrindt, the German government would have no choice but to ban the 2.8 million affected cars from driving on that country’s roads. Switzerland has already banned affected cars from being sold, new or used, and other countries continue to investigate their options; the U.S. arm of VW issued a stop-sale order on new diesel VWs last week.
Volkswagen plans to present its solution within days to repair the affected cars, a spokesman said, and will notify customers and regulatory authorities around the world in writing. That’s not the only issue for VW, though, with German prosecutors opening up a criminal investigation of former Volkswagen Group CEO Martin Winterkorn over his role in what it is calling a “fraud scandal” that has shattered public confidence in the world’s biggest carmaker. The U.S. Department of Justice also has opened a criminal investigation.
winter tires on a non-performance, fwd car in colorado
necessary, indulgent luxury, somewhere in between?
As others said, if the snow sticks or you go places it does - not a bad idea. You're really only out the cost of additional wheels and/or changeover cost, as using snows will make your summers last longer. Also all of these things are less costly than an accident.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
winter tires on a non-performance, fwd car in colorado
necessary, indulgent luxury, somewhere in between?
As others said, if the snow sticks or you go places it does - not a bad idea. You're really only out the cost of additional wheels and/or changeover cost, as using snows will make your summers last longer. Also all of these things are less costly than an accident.
Yup. Good snow tires help with stopping and cornering, which no matter what car you drive, is pretty important.
winter tires on a non-performance, fwd car in colorado
necessary, indulgent luxury, somewhere in between?
As others said, if the snow sticks or you go places it does - not a bad idea. You're really only out the cost of additional wheels and/or changeover cost, as using snows will make your summers last longer. Also all of these things are less costly than an accident.
Yup. Good snow tires help with stopping and cornering, which no matter what car you drive, is pretty important.
Stopping is the big one because all vehicles use all four wheels for stopping.
winter tires on a non-performance, fwd car in colorado
necessary, indulgent luxury, somewhere in between?
As others said, if the snow sticks or you go places it does - not a bad idea. You're really only out the cost of additional wheels and/or changeover cost, as using snows will make your summers last longer. Also all of these things are less costly than an accident.
Yup. Good snow tires help with stopping and cornering, which no matter what car you drive, is pretty important.
Stopping is the big one because all vehicles use all four wheels for stopping.
I also live in Colorado, and I bought snow tires for my wife's civic. It is really wonderful. If you have the money I would definitely get them.
I have an AWD Subaru and honestly I need the winter tires for it. Stopping sometimes gets a little scary even when keeping huge following distances.
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
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The New York Times
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SUBSCRIBELOG INBusiness Day
Volkswagen Is Told to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software
176
A Volkswagen assembly line in eastern Germany.
JENS MEYER / ASSOCIATED PRESS
By CORAL DAVENPORT
SEPTEMBER 18, 2015
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Friday directed Volkswagen to recall nearly a half million cars from the road, saying the German automaker used software intentionally designed to circumvent environmental standards for reducing smog.
The Environmental Protection Agency issued the company a notice of violation and accused the company of breaking the law by installing software known as a “defeat device” in 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15. The device is programmed to detect when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and to only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. Those controls are turned off during normal driving situations, when the vehicles pollute far more heavily than reported by the manufacturer, the E.P.A. said.
“Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health,” said Cynthia Giles, the E.P.A.’s assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance. “Working closely with the California Air Resources Board, E.P.A. is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules. E.P.A. will continue to investigate these very serious violations.”
Please send all your R32s to me, we don't smog them here in FL and it's not really cheating if there's no test.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
You can also play with ignition timing, air/fuel ratio, and variable valve timing to affect emissions.
Can you dicker with ignition timing on a diesel? Glow plugs and all that. You could inject early, but... it's kinda a different situation than gas.
On the other hand, are these tdi? Fair amount of playing with boost and waste gates and such could be going on in that case. They don't look at power delivery do they? With a turbo you could basically make the motor a lot smaller than how you'd typically want to run.
Yeah, so...how does one say "fucked sideways" in German?
They said it probably wasn't doing anything outside of the US, since the regs are different and the US is particularly harsh on NOx and not on CO2 like other countries. It's just the common ECU software for this engine. They're still in a mess of trouble, but doubt the additional cars means much for penalties.
It's still a device meant to defeat testing, and it's still installed on those cars. Regulators all over Europe are asking pointed questions of VW.
Edit: It's worth remembering that this all started when a European clean air group, trying to prove that diesels are clean, tested VW TDI cars, and found discrepancies. They then asked their sibling group in the US to analyze as well, and, well...the dominoes began to topple.
I do, however, find it deliciously ironic that they were only found out because somebody was trying to prove how clean they were. Can you imagine the dawning horror of the researcher who just realized that the cause they were championing was a fraud?
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
I have to applaud the group for not just burying it to meet their agenda.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
In general, trying to brag about who's car is cleanest is trying to find the shiniest turd. I own a TDI because it's cheap as hell to drive, not because I thought it was clean and I need a car even though I'd rather not drive if I could avoid it.
Of course, nobody else gives a crap about co2 anyway so we'll all be on venus2 in 100 years.
Sadly, autonomous driving will probably rule that out long before pollution regs will.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
"Tesla’s just the start. Wait until we don’t even drive our cars anymore. Google’s prototype autonomous car is capsule-shaped and adorable, a design style meant to make robot cars familiar and non-threatening. But also: identical. Imagine, eventually, a sea of Google capsule cars and robotic Tesla Ubers whirring through the quiet streets that used to host a discordance of distinctive shells for their owner-occupants. Once commoditized, there’s little need for customization, since our identities, desires, and dreams will attach to other matters—the apps we run inside these cars, perhaps, or the ones we code furiously, heads buried in future tablets, while riding in them. And if you think the hypothetical Apple Car, rumored for 2019, will be any different in this respect, I invite you to take a look at the phone in your pocket."
Don't really buy it, on account of car culture and the fact that the autonomous cars are still cheating pretty heavily.
Plus they still have to figure out how to make them work in rain or snow.
It's not that surprising. They were the first or second car company that got caught cheating emissions standards in the 70's by the EPA. At some point during the 70's and 80's almost all car manufacturers did it. GM got busted for it in 95. They made sure the air conditioning was off, because the onboard computer had a higher idle speed when climate control was on. And if you tested the Cadillacs with the 4.9 liter engines with the AC off, they pass. Turn it on and they fail. Honda and Ford got caught in 98. Then it was kind of a quiet period till VW got caught again.
My favorite part about this is that adding the Adblue system which would have caused them to pass increased the manufacturing cost by $335 dollars. Even with markups and so forth, that adds about $900 to the consumer cost.
I can't help but feel that's going to come back to bite them.
The problem is that urea is nasty stuff to handle, so there may be concerns from that standpoint.
Normal adblue bottles have a valve that mates with a screw fitting on the tank. You screw it on and push down and that opens up the valve. If the bottle only part drains before the tank fills, unscrewing the bottle closes the valve.
You can't really spill it unless you're really trying, plus it's not really any worse than say, brake fluid.
I'm not a huge fan of the Roadster though, but then I'm not a huge fan of the Elise either (but love the Exige... Doesn't quite make sense to me).
"Jackie Stewart flying at the Nürburgring, 1969. Unknown photographer."
I mean, it says 1969 right there. They'd barely invented downforce yet!
necessary, indulgent luxury, somewhere in between?
If you see snow that sticks around, then a good idea.
Hoo boy. Mueller has a lot on his plate.
As others said, if the snow sticks or you go places it does - not a bad idea. You're really only out the cost of additional wheels and/or changeover cost, as using snows will make your summers last longer. Also all of these things are less costly than an accident.
Yup. Good snow tires help with stopping and cornering, which no matter what car you drive, is pretty important.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Stopping is the big one because all vehicles use all four wheels for stopping.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
I also live in Colorado, and I bought snow tires for my wife's civic. It is really wonderful. If you have the money I would definitely get them.
I have an AWD Subaru and honestly I need the winter tires for it. Stopping sometimes gets a little scary even when keeping huge following distances.