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Relationship, Jealousy, and Friendship
JebusUD
Adventure!Candy IslandRegistered User regular
Adventure!Candy IslandRegistered User regular
I've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for 8 years, lived together for 5. Things have been generally smooth, mostly, and we normally get along great. I kind of knew she had jealousy issues, but it had never been too bad. We recently moved to a new area and I transferred to a different location in my company. At my job I became friends with a female I work with. We get along great and talk often at work, and sometimes text outside of work. We exchanged some non-fiction books we had, and mostly those books are what we talk about, or topics branching off of conversations on those books. Generally intellectual kinds of conversations.
Nearly every week I go to my friends house and play boardgames and cardgames with them. Game of thrones, BSG boardgame, even goofy light stuff like Life. So, at work one day I mention one of the games we play and describe it to my friend. She seems interested in it, so I invite her to come to game night.
Now here is the part where things go off the rails. I tell my girlfriend the day before game night that I'm bringing my friend with. She kind of gives me a dirty look, but that quickly passes. Everything seems fine. Everything was decidedly not fine. I wake up to my girlfriend crying a bit. She says she feels like I am replacing her with this other girl. I remain calm, as usual, and explain that that isn't it at all. We are just friends. Besides, my girlfriend would be at work, and has said repeatedly before that she didn't like playing boardgames with my friends anyway. I've also said before that my girlfriend had a standing invitation, and if she didn't want to go then that was fine, but whenever she did want to go that was good too. She calms down and everything seems fine. Once again, definitely not fine, I later find out.
My friends live about 40 minutes away, so my friend drives to my place and we carpool over there. We talk about normal friendly stuff, we get there, we play games, we have a good time. I drive home, same, everything is normal.
I walk into my apt. afterward and my girlfriend starts yelling at me immediately. Saying she is "so pissed at me right now, and I am disrespecting her". I told her to calm down, and said "I hadn't done anything wrong". Then she starts crying all over the place. You'd think I had cheated on her, I'd said. She then said that she knew I hadn't cheated on her because she had read all my texts to my friend (mega-wtf?). Now, I haven't cheated on her, so the texts were in no way salacious. In fact, I'd say most people would think those texts were downright boring, being either about draw-something or behavioral psychology or economics.
My girlfriend says that being alone with this other girl when I am in a relationship and having deep intellectual conversations with her is wrong. She argues that I will inevitably grow feelings for this other person and leave her, and that her being upset is just her protecting our relationship. My girlfriend and I don't have intellectual conversations most of the time, but sometimes we do also. My girlfriend must feel like we don't most of the time. She feels like she doesn't match up to my friend intellectually, I'm sure. My girlfriend never reads nonfiction, and grew up in a family that didn't value learning a whole lot over entertainment. But my girlfriend is a smart person.
So, the past few days have been me getting yelled at and cried at, with me and the girlfriend arguing about whether what I have done is inappropriate or not. I'm very upset. I feel like I'm not trusted. She claims it isn't normal behavior for someone who is basically married (which is what it is like) to be alone with someone of the opposite sex in any friend-like situation. I was hardly alone with my friend though. It was just in the car. I'd even tried before game night to get my friends to drive over to my place, in which case there would have been zero "being alone" time.
Now, on top of all that, today I was reading the book my friend borrowed me. I tried to text her my thoughts about what I had read so far. When I try to send the text I get "error: text message cannot be sent". I can text anyone else though. My girlfriend pays the phone bill, and I saw her on the computer earlier today paying it. I think when she did she blocked my phone from sending or receiving texts from my friend, which for me, seems to totally push how she has been acting into the realm of batshit insanity. That is totally manipulative and not okay at all.
I don't really want to break up with her, but I feel like she is driving me away. I've felt sick about it for days. I feel like I can't eat. I find myself staring off into the wall for no reason. I feel totally depressed about this. I know my girlfriend has jealousy and some self esteem issues but this is ridiculous. I just want things to go back to normal.
At the same time, I don't want to just roll over and never talk to my friend again. I know this would make everything better, if I just said I wouldn't be friends with this person anymore. But I don't feel like that is fair to me at all. I feel like she is making it my friend or her and I feel like it is wrong, or maybe abusive even to me.
What can I do? How can I fix this? I don't want to be a doormat, but I feel like that is my only option. Roll over and take it, stop talking to my friend anywhere outside of work.
Help?
edit: and anyone on here that I play video games with. Please don't talk about this to my irl friends. I'd prefer if they didn't hear about this. I just didn't want to have to make an alt account.
edit edit: What I did wasn't wrong, right? It is okay and normal for me to have female friends right?
Nearly every week I go to my friends house and play boardgames and cardgames with them. Game of thrones, BSG boardgame, even goofy light stuff like Life. So, at work one day I mention one of the games we play and describe it to my friend. She seems interested in it, so I invite her to come to game night.
Now here is the part where things go off the rails. I tell my girlfriend the day before game night that I'm bringing my friend with. She kind of gives me a dirty look, but that quickly passes. Everything seems fine. Everything was decidedly not fine. I wake up to my girlfriend crying a bit. She says she feels like I am replacing her with this other girl. I remain calm, as usual, and explain that that isn't it at all. We are just friends. Besides, my girlfriend would be at work, and has said repeatedly before that she didn't like playing boardgames with my friends anyway. I've also said before that my girlfriend had a standing invitation, and if she didn't want to go then that was fine, but whenever she did want to go that was good too. She calms down and everything seems fine. Once again, definitely not fine, I later find out.
My friends live about 40 minutes away, so my friend drives to my place and we carpool over there. We talk about normal friendly stuff, we get there, we play games, we have a good time. I drive home, same, everything is normal.
I walk into my apt. afterward and my girlfriend starts yelling at me immediately. Saying she is "so pissed at me right now, and I am disrespecting her". I told her to calm down, and said "I hadn't done anything wrong". Then she starts crying all over the place. You'd think I had cheated on her, I'd said. She then said that she knew I hadn't cheated on her because she had read all my texts to my friend (mega-wtf?). Now, I haven't cheated on her, so the texts were in no way salacious. In fact, I'd say most people would think those texts were downright boring, being either about draw-something or behavioral psychology or economics.
My girlfriend says that being alone with this other girl when I am in a relationship and having deep intellectual conversations with her is wrong. She argues that I will inevitably grow feelings for this other person and leave her, and that her being upset is just her protecting our relationship. My girlfriend and I don't have intellectual conversations most of the time, but sometimes we do also. My girlfriend must feel like we don't most of the time. She feels like she doesn't match up to my friend intellectually, I'm sure. My girlfriend never reads nonfiction, and grew up in a family that didn't value learning a whole lot over entertainment. But my girlfriend is a smart person.
So, the past few days have been me getting yelled at and cried at, with me and the girlfriend arguing about whether what I have done is inappropriate or not. I'm very upset. I feel like I'm not trusted. She claims it isn't normal behavior for someone who is basically married (which is what it is like) to be alone with someone of the opposite sex in any friend-like situation. I was hardly alone with my friend though. It was just in the car. I'd even tried before game night to get my friends to drive over to my place, in which case there would have been zero "being alone" time.
Now, on top of all that, today I was reading the book my friend borrowed me. I tried to text her my thoughts about what I had read so far. When I try to send the text I get "error: text message cannot be sent". I can text anyone else though. My girlfriend pays the phone bill, and I saw her on the computer earlier today paying it. I think when she did she blocked my phone from sending or receiving texts from my friend, which for me, seems to totally push how she has been acting into the realm of batshit insanity. That is totally manipulative and not okay at all.
I don't really want to break up with her, but I feel like she is driving me away. I've felt sick about it for days. I feel like I can't eat. I find myself staring off into the wall for no reason. I feel totally depressed about this. I know my girlfriend has jealousy and some self esteem issues but this is ridiculous. I just want things to go back to normal.
At the same time, I don't want to just roll over and never talk to my friend again. I know this would make everything better, if I just said I wouldn't be friends with this person anymore. But I don't feel like that is fair to me at all. I feel like she is making it my friend or her and I feel like it is wrong, or maybe abusive even to me.
What can I do? How can I fix this? I don't want to be a doormat, but I feel like that is my only option. Roll over and take it, stop talking to my friend anywhere outside of work.
Help?edit: and anyone on here that I play video games with. Please don't talk about this to my irl friends. I'd prefer if they didn't hear about this. I just didn't want to have to make an alt account.
edit edit: What I did wasn't wrong, right? It is okay and normal for me to have female friends right?
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
but they're listening to every word I say
JebusUD on
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Yeah, no. This is in no way wrong.
And you're not wrong to be friends with this girl at all.
Your girlfriend blocking your friend's phone number without even telling you about it is completely, utterly out of line and you need to bring this up and tell her it is not OK. You need to tell her it's not OK for her to be flipping out over someone you're friends with.
This is not a problem with you. Don't treat it as such.
Try to understand why your girlfriend is feeling this way and why she's making such a thing of it. Try to help her get past it. At no point should you even hint that this is anything but a problem with your girlfriend.
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I know why she feels like she does. It is insecurity. And I think she has anxiety issues on top of that. She thinks about me alone with this girl and then it eats away at her, until she thinks I'm going to leave her. I've never done anything to betray her trust either. I don't understand.
She claims that if I cared about her feelings I wouldn't be alone with this girl or text her so much. I have sent texts late at night. But, as my girlfriend has apparently seen, they were all normal. I'm at work late, often until 1130, and so is my friend. So if I send a text to my friend about something we were talking about at work at midnight, it isn't because anything weird is going on.
but they're listening to every word I say
The issue is your girlfriend is having trust issues and does not trust you anymore. This may have been due to her upbringing, past boyfriends, something you did, something she did, something else, or any combination of random factors. You need to find out and confront why she feels the way she feels. Until you can address that you are just doing damage control. At this point she has gone through your phone without asking, and blocked you from communicating with a coworker in a massive display of passive aggressive bitchery. You will need to work out how you want to handle this first off, because ultimately if you are not going to stay in the relationship your plan needs to be how to separate yourself. Secondly as unless the problems are external in nature (i.e. someone is telling her bullshit, she cheated and is feeling guilty, etc) you are going to have to work with her to help her get over this problem. That may include doing things you find distasteful in order to let her feel comfortable such as breaking off contact with your friend.
Telling someone they are wrong to feel the way they do just tends to push them away.
That's just for starters, without getting into a sudden mistrust after 8 years, or her trying to tell you that you aren't allowed to have a friend without a dick, or completely and utterly failing to have a reasonable conversation with you about this.
It is not abnormal behavior, or even particularly uncommon, for married people to have friends of the opposite gender. They manage to stay married, and the world keeps turning.
By all means do damage control, but in that "calm, rational, blameless discussion" you might suggest a visit to a couple's counselor. Having a third party to mediate can help. If she can acknowledge that she's just feeling insecure, then you might suggest she see a regular psychologist, but I'd be wary of suggesting that outright, because you don't want to sound like "Listen, you're wrong about this, so you should go see a shrink to help you feel differently."
It might be to your benefit to make more of an effort to show her that she's important to you. If you've been neglecting her any recently (even if it's just some small things) it might have exacerbated her normally low-level of insecurity. Make sure that she knows you're not trying to get out of the doghouse, but you still want her to know how much you love her.
Regardless, if she did in fact block your friend's number, that is not okay. That is not how adults handle problems.
She suggested we see a couples counselor, which we very well could do at little cost since we are both covered by insurance. I was resistant to the idea because I dont feel like I have a problem. But that is probably the wrong way to think about it. At least she might see how she needs to work on her own issues. Maybe ill just go for that.
but they're listening to every word I say
The snooping? The passive aggressive bullshit? The yelling? Those would be dealbreakers for me, regardless of the length of the relationship, but however you choose to deal with that it's going to be unpleasant. Does she admit to having a jealousy and/or anxiety problem? Is she dealing with it via therapy? If not, you could consider counseling as a third neutral party would help with the communication.
Going to couples counseling does not mean you both have a problem, it's just a way to facilitate communication. In this case I think you should totally do that while your stuff is a safe distance away. If she's just going to go through your shit anyway it pretty much completely undermines the whole process. Right now she is not communicating. She is reaching her own conclusions without justification and then taking them out on you, without actually listening to what you have to say.
Partners don't satisfy every need of one another. And neither should friends. They should all be different. It's what makes everyone great. I mean I love my partner and she fills in a great big ol spot in my heart but I can't really talk to her about work in any great detail. Nor can I go into a huge spiel about a forty meter splitter crack. And that's ok because I go to her for plenty of other stuff. She's one of the few people I get to do long rambles about doctor who or hunt through areas looking for restaurants or just be my girlfriend and that's great.
It's definitely a trust issue and while its fine to sometimes feel a little jealous your girlfriend is raising it to an incompatible level which stems from cheating happening to or by herself or her parents.
Satans..... hints.....
Have female friends or continue to be in a relationship with your gf. Choose one.
By no means at all is this something that would make everything better. It would just cover things up temporarily and you'll end up experiencing it again in the future. Not only is it not fair to you, but it also re-enforces that her behavior got what she wanted. This won't solve anything and shouldn't be considered as an option of something to do.
edit: If you don't feel like you're in the wrong, you will also most likely resent her at some point in the future for making you have to do something you didn't want to
However, I agree with others. Go to the counseling. There's no healthy way past this point without communication, her being passive aggressive and angry while you are distant and mopey will lead to the whole relationship breaking apart eventually. It may survive for now, but cutting off contact with a friend is not the answer. What happens with the next friend? Or the one after that? You both need to be able to sit down and talk with someone, and maybe she will need private counseling aside from that. It's hard to say.
One thing I do know is that if you are at the point where you're snooping through your partners things looking for evidence of them cheating... you are either very paranoid, or you have already lost a great deal of trust in them.
It's wrong, but in her mind it was probably justified, even if she knows it was bad. She needs to own up for it and the accusations already, but demanding she fess up now would do more harm than good. Just stay cool, try and get her talking about it rationally, and set up a meeting with the counselor as soon as possible... just don't let these things fester into a bigger issue by ignoring them or putting them off too long.
Bottom line is she sees this woman as being a much better match for you than she is. She may even be right. It may not help if she or you have just been coasting through the relationship. Or if you two haven't been having any sort of regular quality time. Date nights, etc. 8 years is a long time for a relationship to go without marriage or kids. Is that ever a thing you've fought about? That one of you wanted, and the other put the breaks on?
It sounds like you two have conflicting work schedules from what you've mentioned. How much time would you really say you get to spend with your girlfriend?
You didn't DO anything wrong, but you may have not done something right. I experienced something like this with my girlfriend after she moved in. We were both relatively new to an area and she started to make plans with friends for things she believed I had no interest in. I got upset because it felt like she was trying to live her life without me, and the feeling of being purposefully excluded made me feel unwanted.
So, my suggestions:
1) Do see a couples counselor. The counselor should give you both space to explain yourselves and your feelings and should be able to give you insight into how to move through this situation.
2) Do NOT talk about relationship trouble with your female friend. It's normal to talk about relationship hurdles with friends, but in this case the friend is the personified "cause" of this problem. If you talk to her about your relationship, she will likely give you ideas or suggestions, which will inevitably filter into your own thoughts and the last thing you want to do is say "Well, I was talking to [girl] about this and she said" to your girlfriend.
3) Don't give up your friendship, but take it easy on inviting her to things for a while.
Your girlfriend sees you interacting with someone else in a way that she feels she's unable to, and yeah, she's jealous. It makes her feel bad because she isn't interested in those things or didn't realize how important those things were to you. One step for you may be to see about being more active with engaging her in these outside things. For example, your girlfriend isn't a big non-fiction reader, but you are. That doesn't mean she's not interested in the subjects; she's just not interested in reading the books. I can relate; I don't don't like reading non-fiction either. But I'm happy to discuss it with someone and appreciate the interaction.
How much quality time do you have with your girlfriend? How much time do you spend together where you're actually spending time together, and not just existing in the same space?
if you really want to salvage things (personally, i wouldn't. going into your phone/email/whatever is a SEVERE breach of trust, and i second what other people have said, it's a dealbreaker) counseling is probably your only recourse.
Frankly, quite often there is more than meets the eye at work in situations like this (she's frustrated with lack of commitment, thinking of cheating or feeling guilty about cheating, etc.).
Keep in mind we were both 22, so our ability to deal with a relationship in a mature way was just above non existent, so this is in no way damning evidence of any infidelity on her part. But I definitely felt guilty about the cheating and sort of projected all of that onto her. Every guy she was hanging out with just as friends even in a group setting was a sign of her being unfaithful or thinking about being unfaithful.
While I never read her text messages if the opportunity had presented itself and if phones back that had stored more than a days worth of texts, I would have. I definitely read her emails and AIM chat logs. Obviously now that it's 6 years later and I'm a different person I can look at it all as irrational and fucked up on my part, but at the time it somehow all made perfect sense to my mind.
So again, not saying your GF is cheating on you, but the one time I cheated on anybody my behavior was basically EXACTLY what she's doing. Couples counseling could be a great solution and may bring all kinds of things to light. If nothing else it may help you guys separate amicably.
I'm 26.
We have talked about marriage, but we aren't religious, we don't have a lot of money, and we have never been big into tradition. We both have anthropology degrees, and I think that puts these kinds of institutions in a different light. Lately she has been saying that we should get married more, but we just don't have money even for a simple wedding. Both of our cars are probably going to break soon and that is going to take most of our saved up money.
This is the only real relationship I have been in, but I just don't know. We have a life together. I habe a hard time even thinking about how I would do even day to day things without her.
And she comes home from work after I talk to you people or my friends and feel so sure that I am right. That I haven't done wrong. But I talk to her and then I feel so confused. Everyone she works with agrees with her. That I am disrespecting her and her feelings. And her best friend agreed that I shouldn't be putting myself in that situation( though her bestfriends husband, who is my good friend, seemed to think that I did fine). And her mother agrees with her. That hurts since I really like her parents and we get along so well. They have really been a second family to me.
But they are ready to pack her shit up and have here out of here. It seems as if everyone I talk to agrees with me. But everyone she talks to agrees with her.
I just feel like I'd be lost without her.
but they're listening to every word I say
To be brutally honest, if she is unable to comprehend you having a good friend who is a member of the opposite sex and it is strictly platonic, then she has major self esteem issues.
If she was a bit jealous of your friend then that would be fine. That's normal. I've been there with past girlfriends and I'm sure other people on H/A will agree. But the difference is that I trusted her. At no point did I feel the need to go through her emails/texts etc.
If she feels the need to violate your privacy then your relationship has serious (possibly irreparable) issues. Has she even apologised for what she did? Does she even think she's in the wrong?
Also to echo other people here, yeah you could cut this friend out. Short term your girlfriend will be placated. Long term, this sets a precedent that you will ditch friends at her request and she will make you do it again if she knows she has that kind of influence.
I would definitely take her up on the couple's counseling. But don't just go to a counselor she has picked out because her friends told her about it, either; find one off the internet or something.
This at least borders on emotional abuse.
So either she's spicing up the story big time, or there's more to this that we're not aware of. Or both?
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Im sure it is just like thanatos says. It comes out differently from her.
I'm sure the counselor would just be picked off the list the insurance company provides of in network people.
but they're listening to every word I say
but they're listening to every word I say
Where this quite obviously breaks down is that, well, the men they are "just friends" with, by their own admission, are fervently trying to sleep with her. But somehow that just is never allowed to become part of the dialog. Just the assertion that your friends of the opposite sex are bad, her friends of the opposite sex are good.
Also, I'm with others on this. She's probably spicing up the story big time. It's funny how you add tears to any story and it immediately sounds horrific. Like sitting on Santa's lap as a kid.
I feel like I'm im alternate reality saudi arabia or something.
but they're listening to every word I say
O_o
That is my face. Right now. Whilst reading that comment.
And what's her reasoning for this?
If you're talking about marriage, but haven't really dated others, I guess my only real input is a question:
Do you like her as a girlfriend, or do you like the idea of a girlfriend?
I ask this because you don't have much experience with dating others. I mean, there are tons of women out there, and not all of them get jealous like this. You write about how breaking up would be devastating and everything, but you haven't really experienced it. You're talking about how she's ready to go back to her parents and stuff, and you're looking ahead at the hurt that could happen. I'm thinking you've already kinda broken up over this, you just have to accept it. Take months or years or whatever off, and try dating around some. Maybe, in a couple of years, try getting back together after she's discussed her issue with a professional. To many people, the privacy thing is a deal breaker. There's a reason for that.
I guess ultimately, I'm just working my way up to this:
P.S. It's probably best to take everything I ever type with a huge grain of salt, probably some tequila won't hurt.
But I do think it is important not to gloss over something. You need to be careful when you make opposite sex friends. Typically the sooner you introduce them to your significant other the better. The more you can make your significant other feel included the better. Minimize as much as you can any vibes of her being pushed aside. And this isn't just women. I was shocked to hear the elaborate ritual a female friend of mine has when she's trying to make male friends, but is already in a relationship.
If this is true you may want to be prepared for this to be an irreconcilable difference. Alternative universe aside, Is there any actual cultural difference between your backgrounds?
You said you "knew she had jealousy issues" but they weren't so bad before? Do you not really have any other long standing female friends?
Well, here is how it goes when directed towards me. You cant help how you feel. You have a connection with this other girl and talk a bunch. She will see how cool and smart and nice I am and fall for me( remember my girlfiends words not mine. Im not concieted), if she doesnt have a crush on me already (which the gf thinks she does because why else would we talk so much is the reasoning). Therefore, this girl will obviously fall in love with me, I'm friends with this girl, therefore I'm putting myself in a situation where I might be presented with a choice of this other girl over my girlfriend. Therefore I am disrespecting her and our relationship by makinf this choice an inevitability with my actions.
That is the gist of her thinking. Im sure for her it is just that but in reverse, sort of.
but they're listening to every word I say
Okay she is right about one thing. You do have a connection with this other girl. Or you wouldn't get on so well.
But connection does not automatically equal either of you falling in love with each other. I'm going to assume you've told her this.
If she has this view when it comes to friends (you can never be friends with members of the opposite sex) and you don't agree.....you have a major incompatibly.
I'll be honest. You may need to think about walking away from this relationship.
I met my ex-wife at the very beginning of 2000, and we divorced mid-2011. We had what felt like a whole life together. It was often surreal to realize life without her, but it is what it is. Getting out of a relationship that turns toxic and strange isn't the end of the world, if it comes to that.
The troubling thing is that she sounds like she's already made up her mind, and is now looking for an excuse to prove her right. Snooping is never a good idea because it says "I don't trust you, and I don't care about your privacy." She's painting you as the bad guy to her friends, rather than try to work through this with you, and they are, perhaps inevitably, siding with her story. They want her to move out because you have a friend she disapproves of.
I mean, at this point, you basically need to sit her down and say "Look, I do not find my friend attractive, I am not interested in kissing her, holding her hand, or any of that stuff. That's for you; that's one of the many reasons I'm with you. I'm concerned that you don't believe me, and the fact that you snooped through my phone makes me feel that you don't trust me. I don't see how we can move past this if you're unwilling to trust me."
H/A really loves to tell people to break up with their SO, but this issue is probably just a manifestation of some other anxiety that she is feeling but can't quite verbalize (money problems, social/family pressure to get married, poor self-image, depression, etc).
So yeah, go to counseling a few times and then evaluate your relationship - don't throw away 8 years of your life because people on the internet are telling you to.
Relationships inherently have bumps and snags. Nobody is a robot, nobody is perfect, but it sounds like your girlfriend is at least willing to talk about it with a counselor, which is a great sign.
This.
Also, in my experience if you become friends with someone of the opposite sex, try to make it a couple-friendship. For example, your girlfriend might have felt more comfortable if she could have gone to the game-night with you and your female friend; then she could see that there isn't anything going on. I dated a guy for a number of years that had quite a few straight female friends, one he even lived with. When I met them I could see that they weren't trying to sleep with him and thus it didn't bother me. He did have one female friend who behaved as if she did want to sleep with him and he limited his interaction with her (although they still talked on a regular basis). If your girlfriend could meet and get to know your co-worker perhaps she would be more comfortable with you having a platonic relationship. Instead she is imagining and projecting all these things onto a blank slate since she has never met your co-worker. Try to include your girlfriend when you hang out with the co-worker so it doesn't seem like you are excluding her and so she can actually observe that there is nothing going on. And yes, I agree with other people that her going through your texts was really shitty and untrusting, but it seems like she was probably in a completely irrational state.
but they're listening to every word I say