Yeah, Ostagar the first time, sorry. You can go to his tent and pass a (pretty simple) Persuade to get his guard to allow you an audience and he mentions that Calian told him about his promise to you (to bring Howe to justice) and such on.
Oh, well that's a lot less clear, then.
All he has is your word that Howe did anything at all. And you're a grey warden, a group he distrusts due to their Orlesian ties.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Yeah, Ostagar the first time, sorry. You can go to his tent and pass a (pretty simple) Persuade to get his guard to allow you an audience and he mentions that Calian told him about his promise to you (to bring Howe to justice) and such on.
I had a slight hope that how you handled the conversation with him would lead to some slight dialog change or some such later down the line. Like he would respond to you differently or some such. Sadly that doesn't happen. I wasn't surprised, but I was a tad disappointed.
Curious was it a viable option for Loghain to just
assassinate Cailan? That is if he had the stomach to do it
Or would it have caused a power vacuum... It seemed like Anora was respected enough that power would have been defaulted to her. I didn't see many signs of in-fighting in DA:O amongst the nobles but I haven't played in awhile. The most I recall is some strife over who sided with the Grey Wardens and who didn't a long ass time ago in the Warden's Keep DLC.
The thing about Spirit Healers is that they are not some random event that happened to Wynne and Anders, but an actual branch of magical study.
I used to think Wynne was unique and DAA Anders was just a spirit healer in name only, to fill a gameplay role, but he was an actual spirit healer in DAA by lore. Meaning that he already had a spirit he was bonded with.
You learn this in Witch Hunt, there is a book talking about Spirit Healing as a branch of magical learning that is, technically, legal in some Circles. Though it is looked down upon and some Templars see little to no difference between Spirit Healers and abominations.
So benevolent spirit bonding was a thing well before Wynne. Anders also had some form of formal training in Spirit Healing. So that means Anders either binded with two spirits, or drained up/released the spirit he used in DAA. Either one sounds pretty bad.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought the game made it pretty damn clear that the retreat had been his plan all along.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
My view of the situation was:
Loghain fucked off at Ostogar as part of a power play to install himself as ruler to prevent Cailan marrying the Empress of Orlais . In the Return to Ostagar DLC, its hinted at that Anora's lack of producing an heir had lead to Cailan potentially leaving her and marrying the Empress of Orlais.
Logain would risk the entire country to a Blight in his blind hatred for Orlais.
The thing about Spirit Healers is that they are not some random event that happened to Wynne and Anders, but an actual branch of magical study.
I used to think Wynne was unique and DAA Anders was just a spirit healer in name only, to fill a gameplay role, but he was an actual spirit healer in DAA by lore. Meaning that he already had a spirit he was bonded with.
You learn this in Witch Hunt, there is a book talking about Spirit Healing as a branch of magical learning that is, technically, legal in some Circles. Though it is looked down upon and some Templars see little to no difference between Spirit Healers and abominations.
So benevolent spirit bonding was a thing well before Wynne. Anders also had some form of formal training in Spirit Healing. So that means Anders either binded with two spirits, or drained up/released the spirit he used in DAA. Either one sounds pretty bad.
Spirit Healers don't actually let any spirits possess them. They just talk to them and get them to do shit. Wynne is pretty much a unique existence, since she's technically dead she would be a revenant instead of an abomination, but even in that she differs, since the spirit attached to her is basically killing itself to keep her alive. So yeah, spirit healing =/= possession, Anders is a retard.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought the game made it pretty damn clear that the retreat had been his plan all along.
Nope. There's nothing that ever makes that explicit at all. People always assume that because villain, lol.
but my perspective is
The losses were too great, the enemy forces greater than anticipated. It was either retreat or lose everyone. And I don't think before the battle began his goal was to abandon any part of the army. Indeed, if you take him as part of your crew he says that doing so was wrenching but he had to do so to save even a portion of the army.
The bounty on the wardens was a separate issue, tied into his Orlais racism.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought the game made it pretty damn clear that the retreat had been his plan all along.
Nope. There's nothing that ever makes that explicit at all. People always assume that because villain, lol.
but my perspective is
The losses were too great, the enemy forces greater than anticipated. It was either retreat or lose everyone. And I don't think before the battle began his goal was to abandon any part of the army. Indeed, if you take him as part of your crew he says that doing so was wrenching but he had to do so to save even a portion of the army.
The bounty on the wardens was a separate issue, tied into his Orlais racism.
Oh, huh, it's been a long time since I played DAO and maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
It was never outright stated, but I thought it was heavily implied. Dude mistrusted Cailan and the Wardens, and guess who he conveniently lost by retreating when he did. Also, wasn't there that scene where Anora asked him if he did it on purpose, murdering Cailan, and he hesitates in his answer? It just seemed to add up.
Most of my hate for Loghain was through his assosiation with Howe.
I did let him live on a couple runs. He's actually a very engaging character. If it wasn't for that other Grey Warden (forgot his name), speaking on his behalf, I'd chop him down every time.
Alistair is a bro, but that Warder was tortured for who knows how long by Howe's minions, yet was willing to let that go to serve the greater good. I couldn't help but admire that type of selflessness. Dude chose pragmatic mercy over personal vengeance. Allistair couldn't do that.
Back to Anders. He's not a character I love to hate. I hate-hate him. I could understand if they wanted Anders to fall, but he wasn't even the same character anymore when you meet him. Sure, he looked the same and had the same name, but he might as well have been a different character. The game takes place over ten years. They should have had fun, aloof Anders in the beginning. In order to tie him to the character we loved in DAA, then have him slowly spiral into Vengeance. DA2 Anders was a jerk from scene one. Only same in name. Not a shred to show who he used to be.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought the game made it pretty damn clear that the retreat had been his plan all along.
Nope. There's nothing that ever makes that explicit at all. People always assume that because villain, lol.
but my perspective is
The losses were too great, the enemy forces greater than anticipated. It was either retreat or lose everyone. And I don't think before the battle began his goal was to abandon any part of the army. Indeed, if you take him as part of your crew he says that doing so was wrenching but he had to do so to save even a portion of the army.
The bounty on the wardens was a separate issue, tied into his Orlais racism.
Oh, huh, it's been a long time since I played DAO and maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
It was never outright stated, but I thought it was heavily implied. Dude mistrusted Cailan and the Wardens, and guess who he conveniently lost by retreating when he did. Also, wasn't there that scene where Anora asked him if he did it on purpose, murdering Cailan, and he hesitates in his answer? It just seemed to add up.
The important thing to remember about that point, something that I belive was mentioned several times, was that
The Wardens were the only ones convinced that it was a Blight; pretty much everyone else had convinced themselves it was just a surface raid by the Darkspawn.
It was untill after Loghain left the king and Wardens to die did they realise it was the Blight Duncan and the others were talking about, and in his pride/arrogance, thought that Ferelden could kill it by themselves.
Most of my hate for Loghain was through his assosiation with Howe.
I did let him live on a couple runs. He's actually a very engaging character. If it wasn't for that other Grey Warden (forgot his name), speaking on his behalf, I'd chop him down every time.
Alistair is a bro, but that Warder was tortured for who knows how long by Howe's minions, yet was willing to let that go to serve the greater good. I couldn't help but admire that type of selflessness. Dude chose pragmatic mercy over personal vengeance. Allistair couldn't do that.
Back to Anders. He's not a character I love to hate. I hate-hate him. I could understand if they wanted Anders to fall, but he wasn't even the same character anymore when you meet him. Sure, he looked the same and had the same name, but he might as well have been a different character. The game takes place over ten years. They should have had fun, aloof Anders in the beginning. In order to tie him to the character we loved in DAA, then have him slowly spiral into Vengeance. DA2 Anders was a jerk from scene one. Only same in name. Not a shred to show who he used to be.
An important thing to remember is that at that point Other Warden Dude knew that a Grey Warden would need to die to stop the Blight. Alistair and the PC Warden did not. They just thought that a Grey Warden could stab the Archdemon in the face and then walk away to be a hero. So when Alistair hears "Hey, let's make him a Grey Warden" he is hearing "Hey, let's ignore everything he's done and give him a chance to be a huge hero" not "Eh, send him to die against the Archdemon instead of just killing him here."
Most of my hate for Loghain was through his assosiation with Howe.
I did let him live on a couple runs. He's actually a very engaging character. If it wasn't for that other Grey Warden (forgot his name), speaking on his behalf, I'd chop him down every time.
Alistair is a bro, but that Warder was tortured for who knows how long by Howe's minions, yet was willing to let that go to serve the greater good. I couldn't help but admire that type of selflessness. Dude chose pragmatic mercy over personal vengeance. Allistair couldn't do that.
Back to Anders. He's not a character I love to hate. I hate-hate him. I could understand if they wanted Anders to fall, but he wasn't even the same character anymore when you meet him. Sure, he looked the same and had the same name, but he might as well have been a different character. The game takes place over ten years. They should have had fun, aloof Anders in the beginning. In order to tie him to the character we loved in DAA, then have him slowly spiral into Vengeance. DA2 Anders was a jerk from scene one. Only same in name. Not a shred to show who he used to be.
An important thing to remember is that at that point Other Warden Dude knew that a Grey Warden would need to die to stop the Blight. Alistair and the PC Warden did not. They just thought that a Grey Warden could stab the Archdemon in the face and then walk away to be a hero. So when Alistair hears "Hey, let's make him a Grey Warden" he is hearing "Hey, let's ignore everything he's done and give him a chance to be a huge hero" not "Eh, send him to die against the Archdemon instead of just killing him here."
The Orlesian guy was kind of a douche for not explaining that sooner...
or alternatively Duncan
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Kyoka SuigetsuOdin gave his left eye for knowledge. I would give far moreRegistered Userregular
If there's one thing I want for dragon age 3 it's redesigned darkspawn.
If there's one thing I want for dragon age 3 it's redesigned darkspawn.
They looked awful in DA2
They've always looked awful I'd say they were blander in Origins (undead/orc mash-up. I'd say fleshy undead in Orc tones) . In the second they just look like weird henchmen of Skeletor, more unique but far less threatening and much more goofy.
And yeah I agree the Qunari and Elves had a lot more character in the second game.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
If there ever was a movie for the events of DAO, this is probably the best way to portray Loghain. Knowing that Cailan was a total fuck-up, knowing that the Wardens weren't enough in number to make a difference, and knowing that the Wardens would be an easy patsy for the crime of his "saving" the remaining forces, Loghain comes out of that smelling like a rose . . . . if not for Flemeth's intervention.
I, as a person, see Loghain not as evil, but as twisted. He allowed himself to be driven by his own prejudices, and viewed his situation through them. It ended up with him making some really bad choices for what he felt was the greater good. This does not excuse his actions, however, and he should have to pay the price.
As for my characters, well, it really depended on what character I was playing. For my City Elf Rogue, Loghain was an evil bastard who deserved death for what he did. My City Elf viewed Duncan's recruitment of him into the Grey Wardens as not only saving his life, but as rising him above his previous station and giving him a chance to make a real difference for his people. Loghain's betrayal hit him hard, and he killed him for it.
My human noble, on the other hand, completely understood where Loghain was coming from, and even respected him for it. He was completely willing to cross almost all of the same lines (helping slavers was about the only line he wouldn't cross) to get whatever power or forces he needed in order to kill Howe and get revenge. Of course, part of that was marrying Anora, so he needed Loghain alive at least temporarily. He was originally just going to toss Loghain into the meat grinder of a Darkspawn Horde, but the fact that he was able to feed Loghain to the Archdragon and kill two enemies with one stone was simply good fortune.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought it was implied that Loghain was the one who left the passage used by the Darkspawn to get into the tower unguarded. So basically that's what he wanted it to look like, but the existence of general Ostagar survivors (such as Wynne) and the Warden and Alistair surviving threw a wrench in that?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Most of my hate for Loghain was through his assosiation with Howe.
I did let him live on a couple runs. He's actually a very engaging character. If it wasn't for that other Grey Warden (forgot his name), speaking on his behalf, I'd chop him down every time.
Alistair is a bro, but that Warder was tortured for who knows how long by Howe's minions, yet was willing to let that go to serve the greater good. I couldn't help but admire that type of selflessness. Dude chose pragmatic mercy over personal vengeance. Allistair couldn't do that.
Back to Anders. He's not a character I love to hate. I hate-hate him. I could understand if they wanted Anders to fall, but he wasn't even the same character anymore when you meet him. Sure, he looked the same and had the same name, but he might as well have been a different character. The game takes place over ten years. They should have had fun, aloof Anders in the beginning. In order to tie him to the character we loved in DAA, then have him slowly spiral into Vengeance. DA2 Anders was a jerk from scene one. Only same in name. Not a shred to show who he used to be.
An important thing to remember is that at that point Other Warden Dude knew that a Grey Warden would need to die to stop the Blight. Alistair and the PC Warden did not. They just thought that a Grey Warden could stab the Archdemon in the face and then walk away to be a hero. So when Alistair hears "Hey, let's make him a Grey Warden" he is hearing "Hey, let's ignore everything he's done and give him a chance to be a huge hero" not "Eh, send him to die against the Archdemon instead of just killing him here."
You'd think at the very least Riordan would have been on board with that plan.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
Since I'm on a roll with false equivalencies:
Loghain:Protecting Fereldan::Ahab:Moby Dick
Spoilered for the few who haven't finished it yet.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought it was implied that Loghain was the one who left the passage used by the Darkspawn to get into the tower unguarded. So basically that's what he wanted it to look like, but the existence of general Ostagar survivors (such as Wynne) and the Warden and Alistair surviving threw a wrench in that?
I seem to remember something about tunneling. (it's a couple hours in to the game, do we really need spoilers?)
Spoit on
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I do not like the Qunari or their psychotic religious war that they wage on everyone else.
Yeah, I really felt like Bioware never really fully committed to the idea of them being evil zealots, but there's really no other way to take them. Even earning Sten's trust just grants you revelations like, "Yep, I murdered innocent children because of cultural guilt over a misplaced sword. And?"
I've never turned Isabella over to the Arishok, so I wonder how that plays out. If DA3 doesn't deal with the qunari, I'd really love DA4 or a DLC pack to deal with the qunari threat head-on. That war just needs a place, not a time -- it's going to happen sooner or later.
Apparently you can get all of the upgrades on the key. You just have to position one person at each of the pillars, pause, and have them each activate their pillar before unpausing.
Cheap as hell, considering some of the upgrades, but kind of nice if it's not your first playthrough.
I do not like the Qunari or their psychotic religious war that they wage on everyone else.
Yeah, I really felt like Bioware never really fully committed to the idea of them being evil zealots, but there's really no other way to take them. Even earning Sten's trust just grants you revelations like, "Yep, I murdered innocent children because of cultural guilt over a misplaced sword. And?"
I've never turned Isabella over to the Arishok, so I wonder how that plays out. If DA3 doesn't deal with the qunari, I'd really love DA4 or a DLC pack to deal with the qunari threat head-on. That war just needs a place, not a time -- it's going to happen sooner or later.
I can't imagine their neverending war with the tvinters going that well, considering their supreme military leader was sitting on his ass in a backwater for half a decade. And orlais is kinda far away from tvinter anyway too
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Amen.
Oh there's a blight going on, let's willingly destroy part of our army in an act that will demoralize the surviving troops and cause a civil war. Make sure to kill all members of the order whose whole existence centers around ending blights. Let's do literally everything possible to weaken our nation at this crucial time.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
That the Warden was a failure at lighting the beacon because of all the unexpected darkspawn in the tower, so when he finaly got the signal, the forces fighting the darkspawn were already in too deep, so he decided to save the rest of the army, instead of throwing all the people away just for the foppish king and a bunch of wardens he didn't like anyway. Still doesn't explain why he went out of his way to put bounties on the wardens though
I thought it was implied that Loghain was the one who left the passage used by the Darkspawn to get into the tower unguarded. So basically that's what he wanted it to look like, but the existence of general Ostagar survivors (such as Wynne) and the Warden and Alistair surviving threw a wrench in that?
I seem to remember something about tunneling. (it's a couple hours in to the game, do we really need spoilers?)
What I remember is when you enter the tower Alistair says something like "There weren't supposed to be any darkspawn here" And with a high enough wisdom you get the option of saying basically, "the only reason they'd be here is if they knew the plan." Probably as close to accurate as the Warden could get with the information available to them at that point. And if your Wisdom isn't high enough you never see that choice.
Posts
Oh, well that's a lot less clear, then.
I had a slight hope that how you handled the conversation with him would lead to some slight dialog change or some such later down the line. Like he would respond to you differently or some such. Sadly that doesn't happen. I wasn't surprised, but I was a tad disappointed.
Three words: The Long Road
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Also bring along Isabela.
I don't think he's evil, but he is an incredible dumbass
Or would it have caused a power vacuum... It seemed like Anora was respected enough that power would have been defaulted to her. I didn't see many signs of in-fighting in DA:O amongst the nobles but I haven't played in awhile. The most I recall is some strife over who sided with the Grey Wardens and who didn't a long ass time ago in the Warden's Keep DLC.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I used to think Wynne was unique and DAA Anders was just a spirit healer in name only, to fill a gameplay role, but he was an actual spirit healer in DAA by lore. Meaning that he already had a spirit he was bonded with.
You learn this in Witch Hunt, there is a book talking about Spirit Healing as a branch of magical learning that is, technically, legal in some Circles. Though it is looked down upon and some Templars see little to no difference between Spirit Healers and abominations.
So benevolent spirit bonding was a thing well before Wynne. Anders also had some form of formal training in Spirit Healing. So that means Anders either binded with two spirits, or drained up/released the spirit he used in DAA. Either one sounds pretty bad.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Amen.
I killed him for being the single most incompetent character in the game. I wouldn't want that dude bringing down the average of my awesome warden club.
I don't personally believe it, but some of the rationalization I've heard was
My view of the situation was:
Logain would risk the entire country to a Blight in his blind hatred for Orlais.
Spirit Healers don't actually let any spirits possess them. They just talk to them and get them to do shit. Wynne is pretty much a unique existence, since she's technically dead she would be a revenant instead of an abomination, but even in that she differs, since the spirit attached to her is basically killing itself to keep her alive. So yeah, spirit healing =/= possession, Anders is a retard.
Nope. There's nothing that ever makes that explicit at all. People always assume that because villain, lol.
but my perspective is
The bounty on the wardens was a separate issue, tied into his Orlais racism.
Oh, huh, it's been a long time since I played DAO and maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
Alistair is a bro, but that Warder was tortured for who knows how long by Howe's minions, yet was willing to let that go to serve the greater good. I couldn't help but admire that type of selflessness. Dude chose pragmatic mercy over personal vengeance. Allistair couldn't do that.
Back to Anders. He's not a character I love to hate. I hate-hate him. I could understand if they wanted Anders to fall, but he wasn't even the same character anymore when you meet him. Sure, he looked the same and had the same name, but he might as well have been a different character. The game takes place over ten years. They should have had fun, aloof Anders in the beginning. In order to tie him to the character we loved in DAA, then have him slowly spiral into Vengeance. DA2 Anders was a jerk from scene one. Only same in name. Not a shred to show who he used to be.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
The important thing to remember about that point, something that I belive was mentioned several times, was that
It was untill after Loghain left the king and Wardens to die did they realise it was the Blight Duncan and the others were talking about, and in his pride/arrogance, thought that Ferelden could kill it by themselves.
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or alternatively Duncan
They looked awful in DA2
I generally liked the redesign of the Qunari and the Elves. But the darkspawn were fairly bad. At least they should do something about the Ogres.
Agreed. All I could think of when I saw an ogre's face in DA2 was
They've always looked awful
And yeah I agree the Qunari and Elves had a lot more character in the second game.
If there ever was a movie for the events of DAO, this is probably the best way to portray Loghain. Knowing that Cailan was a total fuck-up, knowing that the Wardens weren't enough in number to make a difference, and knowing that the Wardens would be an easy patsy for the crime of his "saving" the remaining forces, Loghain comes out of that smelling like a rose . . . . if not for Flemeth's intervention.
As for my characters, well, it really depended on what character I was playing. For my City Elf Rogue, Loghain was an evil bastard who deserved death for what he did. My City Elf viewed Duncan's recruitment of him into the Grey Wardens as not only saving his life, but as rising him above his previous station and giving him a chance to make a real difference for his people. Loghain's betrayal hit him hard, and he killed him for it.
My human noble, on the other hand, completely understood where Loghain was coming from, and even respected him for it. He was completely willing to cross almost all of the same lines (helping slavers was about the only line he wouldn't cross) to get whatever power or forces he needed in order to kill Howe and get revenge. Of course, part of that was marrying Anora, so he needed Loghain alive at least temporarily. He was originally just going to toss Loghain into the meat grinder of a Darkspawn Horde, but the fact that he was able to feed Loghain to the Archdragon and kill two enemies with one stone was simply good fortune.
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You'd think at the very least Riordan would have been on board with that plan.
Spoilered for the few who haven't finished it yet.
Qunari arrive in Ferelden and save everybody and everybody converts
Best case scenario:
Qunari arrive in Ferelden, and Ferelden slaughters them all, unites, and goes on a rampage eliminating the rest.
...
I do not like the Qunari or their psychotic religious war that they wage on everyone else.
I don't like the elf redesign, especially for zevran, but they did a fantastic job of 'othering' them
I seem to remember something about tunneling. (it's a couple hours in to the game, do we really need spoilers?)
Yeah, I really felt like Bioware never really fully committed to the idea of them being evil zealots, but there's really no other way to take them. Even earning Sten's trust just grants you revelations like, "Yep, I murdered innocent children because of cultural guilt over a misplaced sword. And?"
I've never turned Isabella over to the Arishok, so I wonder how that plays out. If DA3 doesn't deal with the qunari, I'd really love DA4 or a DLC pack to deal with the qunari threat head-on. That war just needs a place, not a time -- it's going to happen sooner or later.
Cheap as hell, considering some of the upgrades, but kind of nice if it's not your first playthrough.
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I agree with you 100%.
What I remember is when you enter the tower Alistair says something like "There weren't supposed to be any darkspawn here" And with a high enough wisdom you get the option of saying basically, "the only reason they'd be here is if they knew the plan." Probably as close to accurate as the Warden could get with the information available to them at that point. And if your Wisdom isn't high enough you never see that choice.