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Cyberpunk 2077 - It Can't Get Darker Than Night City, Right?

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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Well I mean normally I wouldn't say anything but the game is called "Cyberpunk."

    So?

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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    So I thought I would point out that the trailer didn't strike me as very cyberpunky.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Cyberpunk to me is the setting itself and has little to do with who the actual protagonist is.

    Take Deus Ex for example. If you worked for UNATCO throughout the entire game and they were the good guys the whole time (or at least the lesser of several evils) I'd still say it was a cyberpunk game.

    But, that is just my opinion on it.

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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Cyberpunk without punk protagonists is pretty much exactly what postcyberpunk is (which is what Taranis dubbed it on the last page).

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    It is not your idea of cyberpunk that applies, it is Mike's vision. The grit of Blade Runner impregnates the streets of Night City and the struggle to survive of its inhabitants in such dehumanized place.

    Check around minute 7.

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    What about Blade Runner? I mean it is the quintessential cyberpunk movie, but the main protagonist is a cop.

    Or Ghost in the Shell.

    I'm not saying that what you think is cyberpunk is wrong, I mean I agree it is cyberpunk. I just think that there is more to the setting then just, well, punks.

    I mean you could have a movie set in the Blade Runner universe about a kid who works at future McDonalds and is trying to compete in the workplace against a dude who has cybernetic arms that unfold in to six spatulas and I'd still say it was cyberpunk.

    edit- The actual setting itself means a lot to me, but of equal importance is the question; is there underlying theme of what it means to be "human". That isn't absolutely necessary to me, but it does go a long way to solidify itself as cyberpunk in my eyes.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    Taranis
  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, it is not about individuals but about the effects of the environment on people. Stop thinking of cyberpunk in which the stars are master hackers who can barely handle the recoil of a simple handgun.

    I would dare to say it is about how it has perverted the world.

    Gilles Lipovetsky says we live in hypermodernity. Then what is 2077?

    Archsorcerer on
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Cyberpunk without punk protagonists is pretty much exactly what postcyberpunk is (which is what Taranis dubbed it on the last page).

    Wasn't that actually the point that Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age had if anyone read it.

    He basically makes a cyberpunk protagonist then kills him off in like the first ten pages to show that the setting isn't cyberpunk.

    Dragkonias on
    TychoCelchuuu
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Axen wrote: »
    What about Blade Runner? I mean it is the quintessential cyberpunk movie, but the main protagonist is a cop.

    Or Ghost in the Shell.

    I'm not saying that what you think is cyberpunk is wrong, I mean I agree it is cyberpunk. I just think that there is more to the setting then just, well, punks.

    I mean you could have a movie set in the Blade Runner universe about a kid who works at future McDonalds and is trying to compete in the workplace against a dude who has cybernetic arms that unfold in to six spatulas and I'd still say it was cyberpunk.

    edit- The actual setting itself means a lot to me, but of equal importance is the question; is there underlying theme of what it means to be "human". That isn't absolutely necessary to me, but it does go a long way to solidify itself as cyberpunk in my eyes.

    Blade Runner is less a cyberpunk, more a future noir. Think Dashiell Hammett. The concept of "cyberpunk" itself didn't really exist until Gibson penned Neuromancer, and is punctuated chiefly by such genre staples as cyberspace and cybernetic augmentation--the internet and robot arms, basically.

    Hacksaw on
  • TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    What about Blade Runner? I mean it is the quintessential cyberpunk movie, but the main protagonist is a cop.

    Or Ghost in the Shell.

    I'm not saying that what you think is cyberpunk is wrong, I mean I agree it is cyberpunk. I just think that there is more to the setting then just, well, punks.

    This.

    There's plenty of examples of cyberpunk that don't have protagonists living/working on the fringe. Mostly what matters is if it takes place in a dystopian society and how much the narrative plays up evil corporations and oppressive governments. As far as I'm concerned we haven't really seen enough to determine whether or not it's classical cyberpunk or some derivative thereof.

    EH28YFo.jpg
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Rick Deckard in Blade Runner is so far from a simple cop that it's not even funny. He starts off retired, spends most of the movie fucking up, then ends it on the run from the police, and oh also he's a replicant himself so really he has been killing his own kind and oh god it's so complex and it is the best movie ever. But yes, Blade Runner is really skirting the edges of cyberpunk - it's much more classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction.

    And yes like Dragonkias says that was the point of Diamond Age's opening. Neal Stephenson owns.

    Really, here's what I'm tying to say:

    Wikipedia on Cyberpunk:
    "Classic cyberpunk characters were marginalized, alienated loners who lived on the edge of society in generally dystopic futures where daily life was impacted by rapid technological change, an ubiquitous datasphere of computerized information, and invasive modification of the human body." – Lawrence Person
    Like Case, many cyberpunk protagonists are manipulated, placed in situations where they have little or no choice, and although they might see things through, they do not necessarily come out any further ahead than they previously were. These anti-heroes—"criminals, outcasts, visionaries, dissenters and misfits"[21] call to mind the private eye of detective fiction. This emphasis on the misfits and the malcontents is the "punk" component of cyberpunk

    Wikipedia on Postcyberpunk:
    Many writers who grew up reading in the 1980s are just now starting to have their stories and novels published. To them cyberpunk was not a revolution or alien philosophy invading science fiction, but rather just another flavor of science fiction. Like the writers of the 1970s and 80s who assimilated the New Wave's classics and stylistic techniques without necessarily knowing or even caring about the manifestos and ideologies that birthed them, today's new writers might very well have read Neuromancer back to back with Asimov's Foundation, John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar, and Larry Niven's Ringworld and seen not discontinuities but a continuum.
    The "manifestos and ideologies" here referred to are of course the punk aspects of cyberpunk, and the "flavor of science fiction" being talked about is what we see in Ghost in the Shell and this video game where you take cyberpunk aesthetics and marry them to more traditional narratives.
    Person's essay advocates using the term postcyberpunk to label the new works such writers produce. In this view, typical postcyberpunk stories continue the focus on a ubiquitous datasphere of computerized information and cybernetic augmentation of the human body, but without the assumption of dystopia (see Technological utopianism). Good examples are Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age and Bruce Sterling's Holy Fire. In television, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex has been called "the most interesting, sustained postcyberpunk media work in existence.

    In any case, the trailer has been causing some conversation. Here's what my twitter feed looks like and some other articles/posts:
    Oh man that Cyberpunk trailer thingo gave me a really weird feeling like wow did you get a single woman to look at it for feedback? =/
    Seriously the WORST thing about the Cyberpunk trailer is the boring-ass, classic "invincible woman" trope. NO. GO FUCK YOURSELF
    not enough punk barely enough cyber see me after class
    MY HIGH-WAISTED CYBERBIKINI CHROME SOURCEBOOK CYBERLADIES
    Aren't cyberpunk universes supposed to question authority and power structures, not celebrate them?
    Also, traditionally we should be empathizing with the woman losing her humanity - not turning her into an FPS monster.
    This is like a trailer for a cyberpunk game made by someone who saw Blade Runner once and decided shootin' replicants sounded fun.
    Breaking news, guy behind "Hitman S&M Nun" trailer gets more work, seemingly
    Yeah that Cyberpunk trailer is just a little bit on the Hitman side of problematic.
    It's okay to like problematic things!
    Is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer just more misogyny in gaming?
    Cyberpunk 2077′s New Trailer Is Incredibly Violent, In Not So Obvious Ways

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    Rick Deckard in Blade Runner is so far from a simple cop that it's not even funny. He starts off retired, spends most of the movie fucking up, then ends it on the run from the police, and oh also he's a replicant himself so really he has been killing his own kind and oh god it's so complex and it is the best movie ever. But yes, Blade Runner is really skirting the edges of cyberpunk - it's much more classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction.

    So you're saying that there's more to cyberpunk than the protagonist's profession?

    I really don't know how you've already managed to conceptualize the entirety of the game's narrative from that teaser trailer alone.

    EH28YFo.jpg
    ArchsorcererElvenshae
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    it's much more classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction.

    I was just saying to myself as I was making my bed. Get out my brain you thought hacker.

    TychoCelchuuu
  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Wow spoilers! I was planning on seeing that movie!

    Anyways, the guns and noir and oppressive society aren't exactly unique things in video games. What I'm more excited to see is definitely how they portray the impact of technology on society. Given how much it has advanced since the 70s, why not update cyberpunk to be more in line with our current expectations for the future.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Neon is never out. You take that back. You take that back THIS INSTANT.

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  • TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Well classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction is also a pretty good description of cyberpunk itself.

    Also how can anyone be surprised that a CD Projekt Red game would be rife with misogyny? Women-as-sexual-conquests was kind of the Witcher's thing.

    Taranis on
    EH28YFo.jpg
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Taranis wrote: »
    Rick Deckard in Blade Runner is so far from a simple cop that it's not even funny. He starts off retired, spends most of the movie fucking up, then ends it on the run from the police, and oh also he's a replicant himself so really he has been killing his own kind and oh god it's so complex and it is the best movie ever. But yes, Blade Runner is really skirting the edges of cyberpunk - it's much more classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction.

    So you're saying that there's more to cyberpunk than the protagonist's profession?

    I really don't know how you've already managed to conceptualize the entirety of the game's narrative from that teaser trailer alone.
    Well, from the trailer and from the article I linked it sounds like we're playing as members of a sick-ass group of super-cops trying to figure out what's causing people to go crazy-psycho and kill others. If I'm wrong then sure, this might be traditional cyberpunk, but as it stands it's basically as close as you can get to anti-punk without playing as the anti-graffiti-and-hackers-and-drugs police squad of square police who hate punks and fun.

    edit: also my earlier post about twitter stuff got fucked up (never embed quotes and nothing else in URL tags I guess) but I fixed it

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    In any genre that has existed, does exist, and will exist there will always be various groups of fans who will say "Y" is what makes the genre what it is and there will be other groups that say, "No, it is X, Z, or A!".

    Which is pretty much where this discussion is at the moment. :P

    You cite the wikipedia page for Cyberpunk, but even that seems to be fairly, uh, scattered as to what cyberpunk is. Right off the bat it says Blade Runner is the quintessential cyberpunk film and that Ghost in the Shell is prime example of cyberpunk in anime. It goes on to say that hard-boiled detective stories and film noir are also a part of the style of cyberpunk.

    At the end of the day we each have our own opinions on what makes cyberpunk, well cyberpunk.

    edit- And that is just fine by me. At the end of the day we have a sweet teaser trailer for a game that, if nothing else, looks to be awesome.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    What about Blade Runner? I mean it is the quintessential cyberpunk movie, but the main protagonist is a cop.

    Or Ghost in the Shell.

    I'm not saying that what you think is cyberpunk is wrong, I mean I agree it is cyberpunk. I just think that there is more to the setting then just, well, punks.

    I mean you could have a movie set in the Blade Runner universe about a kid who works at future McDonalds and is trying to compete in the workplace against a dude who has cybernetic arms that unfold in to six spatulas and I'd still say it was cyberpunk.

    I don't know about Blade Runner, but Ghost in the Shell is practically the poster child of what it is to be post-cyberpunk. There's a reason why no one in Section 9 is "punkish", because they have less in common with punks than they do with civil servants in the Health and Welfare Ministry, and even more so the National Police Agency. That's about as anti-punk as it gets.

    Now, I don't know if something be post-cyberpunk automatically makes it not actual cyberpunk. I thought it was a subsection of that area. But Ghost in the Shell is one of the most successful post-cyberpunk stories.

    Looking at the trailer, I did think, "Hmm, this is a bit more post-cyberpunk that cyberpunk, especially with the 'twist' at the end," but it's a little early to call it. After all, the early teaser for Bioshock could have been taken as playing not the crazy crack addict, but the Big Daddy.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    MegaMekTychoCelchuuu
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    Well classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction is also a pretty good description of cyberpunk itself.

    Also how can anyone be surprised that a CD Projekt Red game would be rife with misogyny? Women-as-sexual-conquests was kind of the Witcher's thing.

    So you've played the game already? How much misogyny is in it? I'm simply dying to know.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    It is not your idea of cyberpunk that applies, it is Mike's vision. The grit of Blade Runner impregnates the streets of Night City and the struggle to survive of its inhabitants in such dehumanized place.

    Check around minute 7.

    Yeah I watched this back when it came out. The definition he gives of cyberpunk at around 7 minutes is very specifically a definition of "Cyberpunk" the universe he created for his RPG, not 'cyberpunk' the genre. In fact you can see what he wanted to make it isn't cyberpunk precisely because his description of it is basically dystopian noir with cyberenhancement rather than anti-authoritarian celebration of hacker culture.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    In any genre that has existed, does exist, and will exist there will always be various groups of fans who will say "Y" is what makes the genre what it is and there will be other groups that say, "No, it is X, Z, or A!".

    Which is pretty much where this discussion is at the moment. :P

    You cite the wikipedia page for Cyberpunk, but even that seems to be fairly, uh, scattered as to what cyberpunk is. Right off the bat it says Blade Runner is the quintessential cyberpunk film and that Ghost in the Shell is prime example of cyberpunk in anime. It goes on to say that hard-boiled detective stories and film noir are also a part of the style of cyberpunk.

    At the end of the day we each have our own opinions on what makes cyberpunk, well cyberpunk.

    edit- And that is just fine by me. At the end of the day we have a sweet teaser trailer for a game that, if nothing else, looks to be awesome.
    Yeah, I don't really care in any abstract way about what genre anything is in, but for a game called "Cyberpunk" I'm kind of disappointed that it looks like they're going anti-punk, at least from what we've seen so far. I love the punk in cyberpunk as much as I love the cyber and it hurts to see a game LITERALLY NAMED CYBERPUNK move away from that in the harshest way possible.

  • TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    Rick Deckard in Blade Runner is so far from a simple cop that it's not even funny. He starts off retired, spends most of the movie fucking up, then ends it on the run from the police, and oh also he's a replicant himself so really he has been killing his own kind and oh god it's so complex and it is the best movie ever. But yes, Blade Runner is really skirting the edges of cyberpunk - it's much more classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction.

    So you're saying that there's more to cyberpunk than the protagonist's profession?

    I really don't know how you've already managed to conceptualize the entirety of the game's narrative from that teaser trailer alone.
    Well, from the trailer and from the article I linked it sounds like we're playing as members of a sick-ass group of super-cops trying to figure out what's causing people to go crazy-psycho and kill others. If I'm wrong then sure, this might be traditional cyberpunk, but as it stands it's basically as close as you can get to anti-punk without playing as the anti-graffiti-and-hackers-and-drugs police squad of square police who hate punks and fun.

    edit: also my earlier post about twitter stuff got fucked up (never embed quotes and nothing else in URL tags I guess) but I fixed it

    That article doesn't really describe any of the game's narrative. One could easily summarize the Witcher as a game about a guy who was part of a badass warrior who was a member of an elite monster hunting group, but even that would be a rather reductionist summary that fails to capture much of the back story and any of the moral dilemmas present in the game.

    I'm going to wait until we know more, or even until I play the game before I pass judgment.

    EH28YFo.jpg
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Honestly, as long as the story is in the future and deals with transhuman issues that should be interesting.

    That said I get what you saying having a cyberpunk protagonist in the game would probably be pretty fun.

  • TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    Well classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction is also a pretty good description of cyberpunk itself.

    Also how can anyone be surprised that a CD Projekt Red game would be rife with misogyny? Women-as-sexual-conquests was kind of the Witcher's thing.

    So you've played the game already? How much misogyny is in it? I'm simply dying to know.

    what

    EH28YFo.jpg
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    I'm going to wait until we know more, or even until I play the game before I pass judgment.
    Well you can be Mr. Sensible Susan but for the year and a half or whatever the fuck that we have to sit around in this thread with nothing else to talk about I'd rather speculate wildly about how I might not like this game as much as I could like this game.

  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Taranis wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    Well classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction is also a pretty good description of cyberpunk itself.

    Also how can anyone be surprised that a CD Projekt Red game would be rife with misogyny? Women-as-sexual-conquests was kind of the Witcher's thing.

    So you've played the game already? How much misogyny is in it? I'm simply dying to know.

    what
    Woman start with more empathy but have a stronger psychosis reaction?
    Attaching breasts increases battery life or jamming radius?
    Removing the wiener removes capacity to pick locks or shoot bullets from the hip?

    rRootagea on
  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    It is not your idea of cyberpunk that applies, it is Mike's vision. The grit of Blade Runner impregnates the streets of Night City and the struggle to survive of its inhabitants in such dehumanized place.

    Check around minute 7.

    Yeah I watched this back when it came out. The definition he gives of cyberpunk at around 7 minutes is very specifically a definition of "Cyberpunk" the universe he created for his RPG, not 'cyberpunk' the genre. In fact you can see what he wanted to make it isn't cyberpunk precisely because his description of it is basically dystopian noir with cyberenhancement rather than anti-authoritarian celebration of hacker culture.

    Why do the hackers need to be the stars instead of the habitat?

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    Cyberpunk is wearing your sunglasses at night.

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  • TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    rRootagea wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    Well classic noir mixed with dystopian science fiction is also a pretty good description of cyberpunk itself.

    Also how can anyone be surprised that a CD Projekt Red game would be rife with misogyny? Women-as-sexual-conquests was kind of the Witcher's thing.

    So you've played the game already? How much misogyny is in it? I'm simply dying to know.

    what
    Woman start with more empathy but have a stronger psychosis reaction?
    Attaching breasts increases battery capacity?

    I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about, I was responding to claims that the trailer was misogynist.

    EH28YFo.jpg
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    I'm going to wait until we know more, or even until I play the game before I pass judgment.
    Well you can be Mr. Sensible Susan but for the year and a half or whatever the fuck that we have to sit around in this thread with nothing else to talk about I'd rather speculate wildly about how I might not like this game as much as I could like this game.

    Would you deny someone the right to complain about Chesty McTubeTop and her amazing ability to deflect anti-personnel rounds?

    That's what I thought.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Braindances would solve the age old question of whether sexual intercourse is more pleasurable as a women or as a male.

    rRootagea on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    So "braindances" is a classier way of saying "swapping (cyber)brain cases?"

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    More like copying personal memories I'd think

    So I guess its a universe where memories can be stored on a computer chip, but cannot be easily modified.

    rRootagea on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Synthesis wrote: »
    So "braindances" is a classier way of saying "swapping (cyber)brain cases?"
    It's a clever way of saying "we are making a Strange Days videogame without the license."
    Why do the hackers need to be the stars instead of the habitat?
    Because that is what the "punk" part means. It's not just a cool word people bolted to cyber for shits and giggles (although it IS used that way in most other *punks, like steampunk, which almost never has any punk).

    TychoCelchuuu on
    Fawst
  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    As forumpunk TychoCelchuuu looked over his finished rebuttal, he felt a hint of relief. Smiling to himself once more, he hit the Post Reply button.
    These were the moments.

    rRootagea on
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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    rRootagea wrote: »
    Braindances would solve the age old question of whether sexual intercourse is more pleasurable as a women or as a male.

    Heh, IIRC, in Ghost in the Shell the answer is that it'll result in pain or extreme discomfort for a person of the opposite sex since a person's brain (in the context of the show anyway) is incapable of properly processing the feelings of having genitals of the opposite sex.


    . . . I hate myself for even knowing that. :P

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I thought in the television series at least, the main character was asked once why she always kept her female body instead of swapping to a male one?

    rRootagea on
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    rRootagea wrote: »
    I thought in the television series at least, the main character was asked once why she always kept her female body instead of swapping to a male one?

    I think that was the answer she gave. However, it is also entirely possible that the pain/discomfort only applies to men who switch to female bodies.

    edit- Ah, looked it up (hate myself for that as well). Turns out it is pain/discomfort for heterosexual sex. Which just boils down to a misogynistic excuse for lesbian orgies. :(

    edit 2- it also only pertains to, ugh, "e-sex".

    edit 3- Heh, saying "misogynistic excuse" isn't even hyberbole in this case, in the words of the man himself; Whatever the technical rationale for all this, Shirow said in his poster-book, Intron Depot 1, that "I drew an all-girl orgy because I didn't want to draw some guy's butt."

    At the very least you gotta admire his honesty. :P

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    Technicus Rex
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    The better example was when a certain cabinet official turned out to have a perchance for swapping bodies with nonliving gynoids, and this was exploited to quite literally brain-nap him.

    It's one thing to do it once or twice in a lifetime. But every time you go out for a hard night of drinking....Like everything else in life, you have to stick with it, heh.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    Axen
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