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[PA Comic] Wednesday, October 30th, 2012 - Your Cosplay Headquarters
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At this point I think they need users to install Windows 8 far more than users need Windows 8. They should probably pay us to install it instead of the other way around. Given their gigantic advertising budget it may be a valid strategy. Unlike Vista they can't just wait a few years and repackage it. If Windows 8 fails it fucks this entire device ecosystem that they are trying to build.
http://www.zeldawiki.org/Groose
Maybe I truly am an old man now who just hates new shit. Or maybe it's that there's nothing wrong with the UI as it has been for the last couple decades and arbitrary change actually does suck. Look at people's reactions to Facebook and Twitter when they change shit for the sake of changing it. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. I can understand streamlining for people like my mother who are really 'bad' (which is a harsh term, I don't expect people to be skilled by any means) with computers, but don't remove the shit most of us are used to.
I think that's Thomas' tongue
What's Tycho dressed as?
I mean that in the *strongest* term possible.
When they say that it will only run Metro apps, they are not kidding. I was able to compile a native ARM "Hello World" console executable for RT and tried to run it from the DOS window.
Nope, even command-line programs require a digital signature. What kind of puts me on-edge about that is the PC version of Windows 8 version *also* has the same digital signature enforcement, it's just turned off.
Kevin Flynn, played by Jeff Bridges in Tron: Legacy. Div as Finn is brilliant.
Would've been neat if Div dressed his plug up like a tiny Jake
http://www.zeldawiki.org/Groose
They are only temporarily selling it cheap during a promotional period, it will be $199. Also, I have been using Windows 8 for a while (Consumer Preview actually) and it is actually kind of hard to go back to Windows 7 now. There are a few reasons for this, one of which is the fact that the move from Windows 7 to 8 was about the same experience as moving from Vista to 7. Windows 8 is faster, has better file system management by a large degree, and it syncs across the OS, even if you are on someone else's computer you can log in as yourself and have your desktop history in front of you. The touch aspect does take getting used to, but like I've said I have used it for a while and barely notice it now.
I have to say, and I really don't mean to insult anyone, it just seem like those that don't like the idea of Windows 8/RT are those that are scared of change. I mean, cavemen were probably pretty comfortable once they got used to living in caves, but that does not mean they should have stayed there.
The problem isn't that people don't like the idea of Windows 8, it's that no one gives a fuck.
No offense taken, but since I've been working with computers since the punch-card days, I think I can tell the difference between an upgrade that benefits the user, and an upgrade that benefits the company's revenue stream.
I have no incentive to upgrade, except to wonder about the file-management system. Does that mean, if I search for a fucking word that exists in a fucking Word document, Windows will actually find it?
I understand their strategy in trying to move towards a semi-unified ecosystem between their desktop operating system and their mobile platform, but I don't use a Windows Phone, have no interest in getting a Surface, and the resulting experience in the PC environment seems half-baked and compromised.
The task manager is also much more vast than in Window 7, even if initially it looks like a kid's toy, when you show more detail it becomes a powerful tool for determining what program is in need of attention. The task manager even breaks programs into different categories like which are background processes, Windows processes, and active processes (and all of them show how much of the computer resources they are using with a different highlight color). There are more differences, but I do not abide writing an essay in the PA forums.
To be clear, and possibly clarify what I said earlier, the criticism that gets to me is how people complain that Windows 8 is of no use with a mouse and keyboard. The mouse and keyboard part is a key point that I have a hard time tolerating because it just says to me that the person making the criticism has not used the platform, nor do they even wish to try it and see if it grows on them. If you are happy with Windows 7 that's fine, I'm not trying to convert anyone to the Windows 8 cult here, I just want to clear up the air because there are a LOT of Microsoft trolls out there that act lie their whole family was murdered by Microsoft. Windows 8 is an improvement over Windows 7, the touch UI is not meant for mouse and keyboard (though it is not entirely unlikeable either), and I only wish that those who criticize the platform at least use it so they can make original criticisms rather than regurgitating the same tired shit that EVERY ELSE HAS FUCKING SAID ALREADY. It's starting to sound like the Apple antennagate thing. The touch UI in Windows 8 is not an actual problem, it is just different.
This turned out longer than what I originally intended, sorry.
Right but people aren't trying it because there simply isn't any reason to. The existing system works fine - hell, I still have a perfectly viable gaming rig running XP 64. I do not like what Microsoft is doing with the Games for Windows thing, I do not like the way the new UI looks, and I don't partake of their existing product ecosystem beyond the OS. Also, let me be clear that I'm a PC person - I think Apple is as guilty of this OS refresh bullshit as Microsoft currently is. If there were any compelling reason for me to actually spend the time to like the thing, I would do so, but at this time there is no such reason.
The crux of your post is that Vista and up were better than XP, had advantages over it which on balance made them superior (which in the case of Vista many people would dispute, incidentally). The issue is that many people do not believe this to be the case with Win8 compared to Win7.
The Kernel was left pretty much untouched again
And the kernel will probably not change for quite a while.
And at least Apple's OS refreshes are rather cheap (or at least they are nowadays, they used to be similarly expensive). Mountain Lion is only $30.
So I guess I have two questions, then.
1. What hardware are you using Windows 8 on currently where you're having a good experience? It sounds like it's something with a touch screen, so maybe a tablet? A smart phone? I doubt it's a laptop or desktop with a touch screen interface, but if it is, I'm sure you're aware that that's not a typical setup, right?
2. I think most people aren't resistant to Windows 8 on a hardware platform that has a touch screen interface because it seems like it's borrowing in a lot of ways from existing iOS / Android / etc control schemes, which absolutely work. The resistance is mainly from people who have a desktop computer, or laptop computer where their current interface is keyboard/mouse. So the obvious question from those desktop/laptop users is "Is Windows 8 for us?".
My current take on it is that it seems like a perfectly functional OS if I had the control scheme that it was designed for. Since I really don't, I'm going to stay Windows 7 for a while and see what happens. Maybe Windows 8 SP 1 will include a "classic" interface or something, at which point I'd consider it.
Vista made a whole bunch of the changes you're griping about not happening here, including the major version number going from 5 to 6. Know what happened? A whole bunch of people's shit quit working. Compatibility was a big reason for Vista getting the reputation it got. The version number specifically caused a preposterous number of issues. 3rd-party software would check the major version number, and if it didn't find "5", it would bomb out, assuming it was being run on a legacy OS.
Is your complaint seriously that you can write something for 7 and it still works the same on 8? God, what a nightmare.
FULL DISCLOSURE: I AM A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE OF MICROSOFT CORPORATION. ANY OPINIONS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE MY OWN, AND NOT THOSE OF MICROSOFT CORPORATION OR ITS SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES. I DID NOT ACTUALLY WORK ON ANY OF THE PRODUCTS MENTIONED ABOVE; ANY STATEMENTS MADE THEREIN ARE PROBABLY BASED LARGELY ON CRAP I READ ONLINE OR IN OTHER PUBLIC SOURCES. ANY LIKENESS TO ANY PERSONS OR EVENTS, LIVING OR DEAD, ARE COINCIDENTAL. THIS DISCLAIMER NOT TO BE REMOVED UNDER PENALTY OF LAW EXCEPT BY THE END CONSUMER. THIS TELECAST IS COPYRIGHTED BY THE NFL FOR THE PRIVATE USE OF OUR AUDIENCE. ANY OTHER USE OF THIS TELECAST, OR OF ANY PICTURES, DESCRIPTIONS, OR ACCOUNTS OF THE GAME WITHOUT THE NFL'S CONSENT IS PROHIBITED.
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
I will stick with 7 as long as I can, but sadly, as a MS technet subscriber, they disbaled all the versions of 7 excluding pro that I was able to download the week before. They are pushing 8 very hard not just to consumers but limiting access to professionals of the older OSes as well. It looks like it is here to stay for better or for worse.
And to the poster who suggested I should just install a trial and use it before daring to have an opinion on what I consider to be a good use of my money I can only point out that researching a purchase I wish to make is my job. It is not my job to install Windows 8 and see if I can stomach using it. Installing OS upgrades for shits and giggles is not a hobby of mine - if MS wants me to upgrade to Win 8 it has to show me that there is some tangible benefit to ME that compensates me for shelling out the time, energy and money.
As things stand, based on common opinion and on the advertising I've seen for Windows 8, I believe it to have been designed to maximise sales of Microsoft consoles, tablets, phones and other devices that will all be able to integrate into some sort of cloud-based lifestyle. As things stand, I use my mobile for phoning peeps, gmail for emailing peeps and if I want to share pictures with my friends, there's facebook.
I wish to interface with my computer in the most DIRECTED AND SUCCINCT method possible. I don't want to interface with it by standing on one leg and waving my arms around, so you can keep KINECT. I don't want to interface with it by smooshing bodyparts across the screen of my viewing device like some sort of half-trained chimpanzee, so you can keep your Touchscreen interface.
I wasn't complaining at all, in fact I was saying that people complaining that win 8 is some horrible plague from Microsoft are just whining about windows dressing. The guts of the system has not changed much from Vista, in fact it's trivial to just add the start button back with a utility and never ever see the metro interface on boot if it's that bad for you.
When The kernel went from version 5 (win2k/XP) to version 6(vista/7/8) lots changed under the hood. The big thing was the change to driver architecture. However, that wasn't Microsoft's problem either. They had to update the driver system because it was massively archaic, and told manufacturers for two years previous that it was going to happen. If the hardware manufacturers wrote their drivers using the up-to-date specs they would of worked on XP and on 7, but they didn't. Many of the printer and scanner manufacturers found it an awesome "out" to use the driver change to obsolete their hardware. To make an updated driver would of cost them money, and to sell them a new printer would of made them money. It was an easy decision to make for them.
The other major change was system access separation. If you program was trying to drop DLLs in c:\windows\system or trying to run as the SYSTEM user, STOP IT! Is a service trying to use GUI components to pop something on your screen or alert you in the systray, CUT IT OUT! Is the program trying to do something you don't have access to, ESCALATE! UAC was a nice compromise for normal users. It was either UAC popups, or forcing you to put in a password every single time that prompt comes up.
In fact, from what I can gather, as Vista was getting such a bad rap, MS did an experiment to see if it was just a perception issue. They rolled out Project Mojave and told everyone in a blind test that it was the next version of the OS, when, in fact, it was just Vista. Lo and behold, everyone like it, even though it was the same OS.
I think what happened was Microsoft decided to throw Vista under the bus, tweak explorer with a new theme and windows snaps, and called it windows 7.
TL;DR: For all intents and purposes Windows Vista, 7, and 8 are the exact same OS with simple cosmetic changes. Windows 8 hate is dumb.
This is kind of like saying that if three cars all have the same engine under the hood, it's dumb for people to pick between them on the basis of interior features like leather seats, amount of legroom, power windows and locks, etc. Guess what, those may not be the essential features which make the car go, but they are the ones which define a huge part of your everyday use of and experience of the car.
Amusingly enough, cars also share base platforms too. Which means My Chevy Cobalt most likely drives exactly like a Saturn Ion.
Or I could stick with Win7 and save myself some cash instead of buying a new operating system which is, as you've pointed out, essentially the same anyway and modding it to look like what I had before.
I...guess that might be amusing if you're discovering it for the first time? :-/
And yet, more people bought the Chevy than the Saturn. In fact, the Saturn brand no longer exists.
Can't imagine why, it's the same platform!
or i can save money and stick with an OS i've come to be familiar with and even *gasp* like :P
i'm not seeing myself jumping to Win8 any time soon. if the kernel is more or less the same, and the interface requires some getting used to, and admin tools are even more hidden, i don't see the benefit upgrading.
if WinXP : Windows Vista, then Win7 : Win8. not so much hate of anything new, or anything "M$", just more of saving $$$ and unnecessary effort.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
("would have". I don't want to sound like an asshole, it's just one of my pet peeves.)
I think that's a bit oversimplified. Everything on top of the kernel is just cosmetics? Storage pools, bootable thumbdrives, WinRT, Refresh/Reset... There are a lot of feature-level additions and improvements.
I mean, I obviously agree that irrational hate is dumb, but you're basically saying "Everything is the same except the UI, which a lot of people don't like or don't want to bother getting used to." Kinda damning with faint praise, you know? There are actual reasons to switch beyond it being newer.
FULL DISCLOSURE: THAT THING I SAID BEFORE. I WORK FOR MICROSOFT. I WOULDN'T HAVE PUT THIS ON HERE AGAIN, BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE IF THIS ENDS UP ON THE NEXT PAGE OR SOMETHING AND SOMEONE GETS THE WRONG IDEA OR SOMETHING AND I END UP LIVING ONE OF THOSE STANDARDS AND PRACTICES VIDEOS THAT END WITH SOMEONE ALL LIKE "OH NO, NOW I GOTTA TALK TO LAAAAWYERSSSS" THAT ALWAYS MAKE ME FEEL BAD FOR THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THE PREMISE IS ALWAYS BASICALLY THAT TALKING TO LAWYERS IS THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN OH WAIT AM I NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT THOSE VIDEOS OH NO FORGET I SAID ANYTHING.
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
Future game art lady!