Dad wants to start a comic book "lounge"

Beril

My dad wants to start a comic book "lounge", a place where people can go for a beer, a cigar, the latest issue of Batman, and a game of Magic. The space he's looking at is a little more than 2000 square feet, including a large patio area (used to be a garden center). The idea is to reserve the cigars and such to the patio and keep that like a private club. The difficulty stems from a number of things: 1. There's already 3 established comic book shops in the city(Fort Worth), but each caters to different clientele. 2. Maybe most importantly, my dad knows beer and cigars, not comics, his intention is to have myself and my brother help him in that aspect. 3. I'm moving away to college in the coming year, so cannot actually help at the store for very long.
If it gets any further than this conceptual stage, what are brands of cigar and beer to carry, and with which companies would/should we deal with to get the shop started?

Lord Palington

For comics, you're going to have to go with Diamond Distribution, there just isn't another game in town. As a former employee of one of those Fort Worth stores, I'm not sure there's a huge demand for something like this? I'd definitely stop by once or twice, but I'm not a big cigar or alcohol person.

There seems to be a lot of local talent in the area though, so maybe carrying some local books that the other shops don't might work, along with some local microbrews. Really play up the Fort Worth angle.

Deebaser

By combining a comic book shop with a cigar bar you're catering to a very specific market. Make sure that it actually exists.

supabeast

This is a horrible idea. Magic has been on a downward trend since at least 1999 and comic book sales drop dramatically every year. Most of the people who buy comics and play Magic are teenagers whose mothers won’t let their kids hang out in a cigar bar. Unless your dad is a rich guy and he’s doing this as a tax shelter it’s your duty as family to convince him to do something else with his money.

Esh

Deebaser wrote: »

By combining a comic book shop with a cigar bar you're catering to a very specific market. Make sure that it actually exists.

It doesn't. Not in any sort of concentrated enough form to sustain a business.

naporeon

supabeast wrote: »

This is a horrible idea. Magic has been on a downward trend since at least 1999 and comic book sales drop dramatically every year. Most of the people who buy comics and play Magic are teenagers whose mothers won’t let their kids hang out in a cigar bar. Unless your dad is a rich guy and he’s doing this as a tax shelter it’s your duty as family to convince him to do something else with his money.

While I agree with the thrust of your post, you are dead wrong about both Magic and comics. 2011 was Magic's highest selling year ever, and its events had record attendance. As for comics, by most relevant metrics, the industry moves about $100 million more now than it did 10 years ago, annually; sales fluctuate from year to year, but the success of comics-based entertainment has contributed to dramatic long-term gains.

But again, I agree that the OP really ought to convince his father that this is a bad idea. Because it is.

Pure Din

I don't think I would spend a lot of time at a comic book store with alcohol and cigars, but my friends and I have spent a lot of time and money at bars and cafes that are a little bit nerdy like letting people set up DnD for a few hours on a quiet night, or have bar trivia nights with questions about science and Harry Potter instead of only questions about sports, or have games like apples to apples and dominion for people to play instead of darts or pool. Perhaps your dad could appeal to more people by making a space that is just a little nerdy but not specifically for comic books and magic.

JaysonFour

If you offered alcohol, wouldn't you pretty much shoot your target market in the foot? How many parents of gamers are going to allow their kids to go into a place that sells alcohol? You'd be hoping to recoup your business by praying that all of your customers buy more product.

Is the OP's dad looking to open a game shop that sells cigars and booze or a bar that sells comics and games? I have to agree that both sound like a REALLY bad idea- why not just open the bar/tobacco shop and comic/gaming shop as two separate entities, or just pick one? I just don't see a combination of the two working.

bowen

Comic book stores tend to stay in business by catering to trend of the year type stuff like pokemon or yu-gi-oh, and hosting many tournaments.

Your father is not going to be able to sustain a business at all. Sorry.

Kyougu

Yeah you're pretty much catering to three different niche markets and then hoping that they intersect in a meaninful enough way where it would sustain a business.

amateurhour

Also unless you plan to strictly enforce a "no smoking" inside the store policy and make sure that everyone who sits down to read a comic and smoke a cigar buys said comic and sits outside, you're shooting yourself in the foot because cigar smoke is going to ruin your inventory.

We had a shop in college and the owner smoked in it, like a chimney, and the place smelt like burnt asshole 24/7 and all of the books reeked of cigarette smoke. In his case it basically was a tax shelter/storage unit for his personal comic collection of which he happened to sell some of them from time to time.

Gaslight

If your dad has money to burn and just wants to run this as a tax shelter and little clubhouse for his buddies, fine.

But there is literally no chance of this being a successful business venture.

Darkewolfe

Yeah, if your dad wanted to actually make money off this it's probably a bad idea.

Unless, I guess, he already has a plan for a successful gentlemen's lounge, what with the cigars and scotch, and knows he can do that. If he just wanted to offer some comic books as a side service for schtick, that MIGHT work? I don't really know the business of cigars and liquor. I DO know that opening a store which is built to sell comics and games is a great way to lose a lot of money.

Quoth

Has your dad done an analysis of what his revenue would have to be to offset the store expenses? Depending on the rent he's looking to pay, that may give him a better idea of how feasible this is. It's generally reasonable to assume that expenses for just the store itself (taxes, insurance, utilities, etc.) will run something like 30-50% of the rent, which most retail leases would have the tenant pay rather than the landlord. So if you're paying $15 per square foot per year for rent, it will probably be more like $20-$23 per square foot including expenses. Then you'd add to that the business costs--inventory, payroll, local taxes, accounting, that kind of stuff.

In terms of what others have said, I would tend to agree that having a bar/lounge with the other stuff as a gimmick will likely work better than the opposite. It's challenging to stage an all-ages event at a place with liquor and tobacco as the other main selling points. And then it's also true that you're catering to a pretty specific clientele, since I think most people go to bars to watch sports? A local bar here used to stage gaming events but had much more lucky with sporting ones. And karaoke, to a certain extent. But mostly sports.

EggyToast

It makes much more sense to have a geeky bar, but these are generally run/owned by geeks. I think the big question, even ignoring all the naysayers, is to simply ask why your dad wants to add in the gaming element if he a) doesn't know anything about it and b) doesn't seem to have an interest in it?

Hewn

EggyToast wrote: »

It makes much more sense to have a geeky bar

As a geek who loves bars, there's your answer. I love the idea of an upscale geek bar. But I wouldn't give a damn about the comics. You could cast a pretty wide net by catering to lovers of games, fantasy, and general science.

The benefit here is that even if somebody doesn't enjoy those things, you've still got a nice bar going on. I've been in dozens of "Irish" bars, had fun, and I can't say I ever gave a shit about the dressing of the Irish theme.

If it's within your means, you might consider looking at brewing your own beer. That's on the uptick. It's competitive, but if you carve a niche, you'll bring in the ever growing population of folks traveling to sample locally brewed beers. Bonus points if you can attract your target market by naming them after geeky things like NASA spacecraft, Lord of the Rings weapons, and comic book references.

It's still a gamble, but at least you'd be hedging the bets by investing in a brewery, which is a little more proven than a comic book lounge.

Inquisitor77

Why doesn't he just open up a bar/cigar lounge? I'm confused as to why the comic book thing is necessary...

Maybe he just wants to include you guys somehow? Because that's literally the only good reason I can think of for him to throw these two things together.

Invisible

Besides all the other reasons listed, cigar smoke will absolutely destroy the comics if he plans on keeping for any length of time.

Simpsonia

A comic/cigar shop does sound like a truly terrible idea from a business standpoint. On top of that there are a lot of business/legal issues that need to be resolved, and whatever you dad does end up doing, he should see a local business attorney before he does.

With regards to a geeky bar, unless your dad has extensive experience in the bar/restaurant industry I would also advise against it. Bars and restaurants easily have one of the biggest failure rates of any business type in America. It is really hard to make it in that industry without years of experience on how to properly run them. Not to mention there are a ton of upfront costs, such as obtaining a liquor license (at least in my city) and remodeling whatever space you want to go into.

It sounds like your dad just wants a lounge where he and his friends and like minded compatriots can chill. Which is, fine but trying to shoe-horn in other business types is usually a recipe for disaster. In small business the simpler things are, typically the better.

Hewn

Simpsonia wrote: »

In small business the simpler things are, typically the better.

To emphasize this, the latest brewery that's doing well in my area only serves beer. That's it. No mixed drinks. No food. Beer. Only beer they brew.

What's nice is they have provided ample space for people to gather (lounge areas) and you can bring your own food. So it's become a pretty popular place to gather for functions.

Beril

I'm thankful to see I'm not the only one who sees this as poor idea. It seemed like a fun idea, not a viable one though. Bringing a bit more advice and info to the field will hopefully convince him. I'll pass the info onto him.

Beril

So on a similar note, what would be a good idea for a location that costs a little over a thousand a month, in a somewhat upscale neighborhood? Along the same vein as a comic shop, geeky bar, or lounge?

Quoth

When you say it costs a little over a thousand, do you know what the expenses are for the unit? Would it be a full service lease, with the landlord paying expenses, or would it be triple net, with your dad paying everything? That makes a big difference for costs.

I think bars are generally easier and cheaper to run than restaurants, so I'd say to shy away from too much food service unless your dad already has major experience in that area. Brewery is probably not allowed by the zoning rules for the district, but a brewpub may be okay; check the laws for your city/county/whatever. A lot of regulations are available on a site called Municode.

E: It's worth noting that while the property may be in Fort Worth, it may not be under the jurisdiction of the city of Fort Worth. Make sure you're looking at the right zoning code. I know how to look this up in Florida but not in Texas; you may try looking for your county's property appraiser's website, usually that will have the property's specific information with regards to municipality or whatever.

Djeet

There's pub here that's pretty popular that has vintage arcade games (coin-op pacman, galaga, joust, street fighter 2, that kind of stuff), and it starts filling up by early evening (9-ish). By 11 I have to leave cause the time waiting around to play vs time to play ratio gets intolerable. Something like that might work. It's gong to be more capital intensive (a few K per machine, and you need a guy who can source parts and fix them up when beer inevitably gets spilled on them).

Deebaser

Maybe rip off these guys

http://barcade.com/

They do well in hipsterville.

noir_blood

The dallas area alread has one exactly that.

Newblar

Why does your dad want a business? Will this be his primary income, supplementary income, just something to keep busy, etc.. How is he going to finance this, what amount of capital will he have to work with, what sort of risk can he tolerate with this capital, how long can he go before he needs to break even and what sort of income does he require from this? These are more important questions to answer than what sort of business he wants to run as they will affect what sort of business he has a chance of actually viably running.

After figuring that out he can look at what business to run and he'll need to do multi-year financial projections not only for acquiring credit for his capital (if needed) but also to get a more realistic idea of the financial realities of his business.

Bars and comic shops are notorious for failure. I'm not saying he shouldn't run either but the little you mentioned in your first post about a possible timeline sounds like he's sort of jumping the gun before getting the planning done that is needed for him to have a decent chance at success.

Potentially some entrepreneur classes at a local college/university may be a good investment and at the very least should help connect him with some other people that are looking to start business that could provide him with some advice and a support network.

ANTVGM64

From breezing over this, let me say I would happily, HAPPILY, partake in your cigar / beer / Comic book store, especially if you offered marked down prices so I could buy a Trade Paperback of Ultimate Spider-man, pick up an Acid Cigar, and get a little woozy on the porch.

Consider adding hookah! and Snacks!

Zoku Gojira

I'd say that, regardless of the merits of the actual plan, this part...

my dad knows beer and cigars, not comics, his intention is to have myself and my brother help him in that aspect. 3. I'm moving away to college in the coming year, so cannot actually help at the store for very long.

Makes incorporating comics into the mix rather a bad idea, whether the core concept is sound or not, and it doesn't sound much like it is.

Also...

If it gets any further than this conceptual stage, what are brands of cigar and beer to carry

Your dad should probably have a good idea, as this is his area of expertise.

Personally, I'd be a fixture in a neighborhood bar that had good import and microbrew ale, an ample selection of quality scotch and cognac, and fine cigars kept in a carefully climate-controlled humidor and permitted to be enjoyed by patrons both indoors and out on the patio, and a few tables surrounded by couches set up for parties to share in hookah. Slowly turning ceiling fans overhead, with lighting arranged carefully so as to cast a shadow through the fans. Bartender in a suit who will answer to 'Rick' or 'Lloyd' no matter what his real damn name is. Palm tree on the patio, even if it has to be fake on account of the climate.

Deebaser

ANTVGM64 wrote: »

From breezing over this, let me say I would happily, HAPPILY, partake in your cigar / beer / Comic book store, especially if you offered marked down prices so I could buy a Trade Paperback of Ultimate Spider-man, pick up an Acid Cigar, and get a little woozy on the porch.

Consider adding hookah! and Snacks!

This concept alienates most cigar aficianados and comic enthusiasts, but your target demographic doesn't seem willing to pay a premium for the service.
Run away from this concept as fast as you can.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Esh

Vanguard wrote: »

Yeah, f he doesn't know anything about comics, tell him to remove them from the equation and focus on putting together a longe that doesn't suck.

I'm going to guess he knows nothing about running a bar either. There's another business killer.

Comahawk

This seems like a terrible idea for many of the above named reasons. Additionally, opening a brewpub, bar or restaurant without years of experience in the industry is a good way to have your business go under quickly. Brewpubs are prohibitively expensive, with bars and restaurants running a close second.

With a brewpub, not only do you need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on kitchen/restaurant equipment, you must also purchase brewery equipment and the supplies to begin producing beer. Combine that with a lack of knowledge and you are pretty much guaranteeing you will produce shit beer (remember, you are competing with professional brewers) or lose batches to infections. Piling that stress on top of running a restaurant - which are stereotypically extremely difficult to manage - without previous experience and you are setting yourself up to fail.

Basically, your dad sounds like he wants a place to hangout and smoke cigars. Throwing in gimmicks to make this "profitable" will not work. Running a business is a job and tends towards being unenjoyable and very difficult, at least in the first few years. If his sole goal is to have somewhere fun to spend his day while also turning a profit, I can pretty much guarantee his business will tank as he is likely to lose motivation once his hobby begins to consume every waking hour of his life.

Edith Upwards

He would be better off building a galounge out of pro-panel and pipe.