VP victory for Tzeentch (@Magic Geek) with 51 VP Gratulations for that
2nd: Nurgle (@blahmcblah) with 41 VP 3rd: Khorne (@Zombie Hero) with 35 VP 4th: Rat (@SeGaTai) with 33 VP (But one tick away from Dial victory) 5th: Slaanesh (@MrBody) with 26 VP
So my theory about Morrslieb that's been kicking around for a while:
By default, the game is largely a contest between Khorne and Tzeentch.
Special circumstances make the rat a contender. Usually a combination of lucky Skaven tokens and cards at the right time.
Nurgle kind of putts around behind those 3. Eeking out a win usually relies on the 3 other gods tying each other down.
Slaneesh, ugh. Get a festival card first turn or go home. The win statistics reflect this.
Tz is strong in the Morris. It just is. Tz cards are SO GOOD.
But Tz does have some real problems. The Rat just existing means more cards are in peoples hands, and they get played faster over more provinces. Eg turn 1 (3+2), +2, +2, +2 or an extra 11 cards in this particular game that just weren't there in a Base Game. Tz is trying to empty his hand every turn, but the equivalent of a whole Province disappears by the time Tz wants to play it's third card (if Rat plays 2 cards). Mystical Disregard does kinda trump this problem, a bit, and my it is strong, but it aint quite balanced.
I am coming around to the Acolyte Upgrade. I think it is fair to say it won me the game.
Also, Tz is REALLY unlikely to score a Dial victory.
Khorne in Morris is very much two different games. Well three really. Points, Kills, or get the fullstrength Bloodletter upgrade and just win.
Khorne going points is something I specialised in while playing the base game. I wrote Lots & Lots of words about it on BGG, but no one believed me. Then I started winning games, and one stranger won on turn 4. But people on BGG still believe me to just be a verbose idiot, (like Raz) and do not believe, or want to try. Khorne Points is VERY strong in base, possibly the strongest strategy, but not in Morris.
Khorne going points in Morris is HARD. Rat especially makes this difficult. Without the Upgrade at all, I think it should be very hard, but certainly possible.
Khorne going Dial seems entirely likely in Morris, easier even. There are the same number of provinces, and there are more pieces.
HR is tricky, complex, odd and different. I really like it. I have not mastered it, but I know it can be extremely strong. I do not believe I am qualified to type about Rat, but it does beat me.
Nurgle only putts around behind those 3 when the player does not know what they are doing. Nurgle is STRONG, and really hard to play perfectly. It requires a lot of experience and planning to get right. Mostly this is because Nurgle's cards are complex, require timing and sometimes need to be played outside of Populous regions. In a truly Expert level group, I think Nurgle may well be the strongest and most winning God. But that is just supposition. Nurgle is very easy to play in a simple manner, which is how most people play Nurgie.
And then there is Slaan.
Slaan is hard to win with, and extremely easy to play to a middling position.
If Slaan gets ignored, it can easily win. But to win in a glorious way with Slaan requires real planning so the cards get to function right. Slaan's cards can easily go very wrong. As can getting the Mr Slappy upgrade and giving points to somebody else.
In my opinion Slaan is the least affected by the Big swings in the Expert cards.
The reason Slaan got NAILED by the Vermin Outbreak was because it fought Nurgle for Estalia. That was just never going to work. Slaan trying to intimidate people is just a bad idea, and then the province is going to be ruined, as it was this game.
In a 5 player expert game, I think Slaan has a significant chance of Dial victory, well, more than anyone except Khorne, but it requires some luck and the right upgrade choices.
Slaan trading on the fact it is weakest is also a pretty important fact. Tz & Nurgle should be the primary targets for Khorne. If Khorne forgets or ignores this, Tz or Nurgle will win.
When I was making robots for the 4 base set gods, Slaan was the last one for me to figure out.
Then I realised that all a standard, middle path Slaan really did was take Norsca+TrollCountry or Badlands+Border Princes and sit there for the entire game. While playing that, on a regular basis Slaan had absolutely nuthin' to do with its points on a regular bassis. There is 6+6+3 points worth of figures, of which the Warriors & Demon are really just not very good. The good end of its forcepool is less than 1 turn of points to buy. Compare that with Rat. Rat has 11 cultists, 3 warriors and a Big Rat. 11+6+3 . Fully 20 points of goodness. ALL of which is extremely useful. The Warriors count in corruption, and there upgrade is OK-ish. & the Big Rat is good. 20 good points in forcepool, compared to 6.
This is why I simply do not rate Festival of Sinew.
This is why the Pleasure & Pain upgrades giving 9 PP per turn in the base game was just silly.
What are you going to buy with it?
ALL of Slaans cards want to be played in Slaan's areas. (Except move a token).
Playing in the same regions as others clutters Slaans Areas with other gods cards. This is good reason to avoid Nurgle especially. Nurgle tends to clump into one area, and corrupt it. Slaan absolutely does not want that.
I think Slaan is the weakest of all 5, but it does still win games.
I think my opening moves in this game as Slaanesh would have been 3 cultists in Norsca & then 3 in Troll Country depending on how close Khorne was coming.
Turn 2 of Mr Slappy in Kislev with Debaunchery, and suddenly the game is entirely different.
Maybe Khorne will go to Norsca, maybe not. Maybe Rat would not have doubled so often since Troll Country is Purple-ish. If Norsca is left alone until turn 4, thats about 20 points or a little less if it pops on turn 3 because of company. Nobles in troll country might work too, just coz noone else want s to go there, and Khorne should be killing Green & Blue. You could even move the skaven counter out to Kislev so Rat goes away..... Anyhoo, speculation is loverly.
I think playing with JUST the expert OWC is actually really fun.
I think mixing them is not a great idea. Mixing them means they stay for too long, meaning that the crushed god does not get the chance to recover.
Mr Body, I would discuss your quite interesting description of Morris Dancing in the sign up thread, . . . But my words are not wanted there.
you post poorly written stream-of-consciousness shit that is exhausting to argue over. Especially in the greater context of a fucking board game. You are not interesting, you are annoying, and after you contradict yourself within the first two sentences I just quietly yawn and skip your post. Do confuse infamy with interest.
Know anyone infamous that is not interesting? Yeah, me neither. I did a google search ... http://listphobia.com/2011/06/01/10-most-infamous-people-throughout-history/
Their list is Adolf, Genghis, Brutus, Judas, Cain, Osama, Saddam, Jack, Vlad, & Lee Harvey Oswald
I knew all 10 of those names, all have had movies made about them because they were interesting. (And Awful, dont get me wrong)
Khorne - Adolf, Genghis, Cain, Saddam,
Slaan - Vlad, Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack
Tz - Judas, Osama, Brutus
Nurgle - None - A good example of an Infamous Nurgle is Typhoid Mary.
Rat - None - A good example of an Infamous Rat is Julian Assange
Two weeks ago I was researching Genghis.... omg . . . omFg.
Now there is a guy that changed the course of history. And Khorne would be Proud to claim him. The weirdest bit I found was he probably had Red Hair and Green/Blue eyes!
Hey, we are playing a game where the board is made from stretched human skin.
I am just some guy typing about tactics in a board game. I hope I did not post poorly written shit in this thread. I hope I did not annoy or bore you, or contradict myself too much.
In a 5 player expert game, I think Slaan has a significant chance of Dial victory, well, more than anyone except Khorne, but it requires some luck and the right upgrade choices.
Slaan trading on the fact it is weakest is also a pretty important fact. Tz & Nurgle should be the primary targets for Khorne. If Khorne forgets or ignores this, Tz or Nurgle will win.
The thing about Khorne going dial strategy is I think it makes for a boring game, both playing as and against Khorne. Your moves are 90% prescripted. Just plop down one warrior in every region with other guys. The only decision is cards, and those are mostly just when to lock cultists down with hate or move them to you with terror or get a free dial token from rampage. Playing against this strategy is frustrating because Khorne has no choice in who to target; he goes after everyone equally and ends up being kingmaker by inaction.(I
Going with the "2 VP per region" bloodletter upgrade just reinforces this. It's a redundant point mechanic for his usual dial strategy.
I'm not a fan of the expert cards because they're all about restricting what you can do. I prefer variety by opening up more options. There haven't been too many games where everyone wasn't begging for Vermin Outbreak to just go away.
Posts
Image at start of phase:
Link
VP victory for Tzeentch (@Magic Geek) with 51 VP Gratulations for that
2nd: Nurgle (@blahmcblah) with 41 VP
3rd: Khorne (@Zombie Hero) with 35 VP
4th: Rat (@SeGaTai) with 33 VP (But one tick away from Dial victory)
5th: Slaanesh (@MrBody) with 26 VP
And ... Wooooooot!
Tz is strong in the Morris. It just is. Tz cards are SO GOOD.
But Tz does have some real problems. The Rat just existing means more cards are in peoples hands, and they get played faster over more provinces. Eg turn 1 (3+2), +2, +2, +2 or an extra 11 cards in this particular game that just weren't there in a Base Game. Tz is trying to empty his hand every turn, but the equivalent of a whole Province disappears by the time Tz wants to play it's third card (if Rat plays 2 cards). Mystical Disregard does kinda trump this problem, a bit, and my it is strong, but it aint quite balanced.
I am coming around to the Acolyte Upgrade. I think it is fair to say it won me the game.
Also, Tz is REALLY unlikely to score a Dial victory.
Khorne in Morris is very much two different games. Well three really. Points, Kills, or get the fullstrength Bloodletter upgrade and just win.
Khorne going points is something I specialised in while playing the base game. I wrote Lots & Lots of words about it on BGG, but no one believed me. Then I started winning games, and one stranger won on turn 4.
Khorne going points in Morris is HARD. Rat especially makes this difficult. Without the Upgrade at all, I think it should be very hard, but certainly possible.
Khorne going Dial seems entirely likely in Morris, easier even. There are the same number of provinces, and there are more pieces.
HR is tricky, complex, odd and different. I really like it. I have not mastered it, but I know it can be extremely strong. I do not believe I am qualified to type about Rat, but it does beat me.
Nurgle only putts around behind those 3 when the player does not know what they are doing. Nurgle is STRONG, and really hard to play perfectly. It requires a lot of experience and planning to get right. Mostly this is because Nurgle's cards are complex, require timing and sometimes need to be played outside of Populous regions. In a truly Expert level group, I think Nurgle may well be the strongest and most winning God. But that is just supposition. Nurgle is very easy to play in a simple manner, which is how most people play Nurgie.
And then there is Slaan.
Slaan is hard to win with, and extremely easy to play to a middling position.
If Slaan gets ignored, it can easily win. But to win in a glorious way with Slaan requires real planning so the cards get to function right. Slaan's cards can easily go very wrong. As can getting the Mr Slappy upgrade and giving points to somebody else.
In my opinion Slaan is the least affected by the Big swings in the Expert cards.
The reason Slaan got NAILED by the Vermin Outbreak was because it fought Nurgle for Estalia. That was just never going to work. Slaan trying to intimidate people is just a bad idea, and then the province is going to be ruined, as it was this game.
In a 5 player expert game, I think Slaan has a significant chance of Dial victory, well, more than anyone except Khorne, but it requires some luck and the right upgrade choices.
Slaan trading on the fact it is weakest is also a pretty important fact. Tz & Nurgle should be the primary targets for Khorne. If Khorne forgets or ignores this, Tz or Nurgle will win.
When I was making robots for the 4 base set gods, Slaan was the last one for me to figure out.
Then I realised that all a standard, middle path Slaan really did was take Norsca+TrollCountry or Badlands+Border Princes and sit there for the entire game. While playing that, on a regular basis Slaan had absolutely nuthin' to do with its points on a regular bassis. There is 6+6+3 points worth of figures, of which the Warriors & Demon are really just not very good. The good end of its forcepool is less than 1 turn of points to buy. Compare that with Rat. Rat has 11 cultists, 3 warriors and a Big Rat. 11+6+3 . Fully 20 points of goodness. ALL of which is extremely useful. The Warriors count in corruption, and there upgrade is OK-ish. & the Big Rat is good. 20 good points in forcepool, compared to 6.
This is why I simply do not rate Festival of Sinew.
This is why the Pleasure & Pain upgrades giving 9 PP per turn in the base game was just silly.
What are you going to buy with it?
ALL of Slaans cards want to be played in Slaan's areas. (Except move a token).
Playing in the same regions as others clutters Slaans Areas with other gods cards. This is good reason to avoid Nurgle especially. Nurgle tends to clump into one area, and corrupt it. Slaan absolutely does not want that.
I think Slaan is the weakest of all 5, but it does still win games.
I think my opening moves in this game as Slaanesh would have been 3 cultists in Norsca & then 3 in Troll Country depending on how close Khorne was coming.
Turn 2 of Mr Slappy in Kislev with Debaunchery, and suddenly the game is entirely different.
Maybe Khorne will go to Norsca, maybe not. Maybe Rat would not have doubled so often since Troll Country is Purple-ish. If Norsca is left alone until turn 4, thats about 20 points or a little less if it pops on turn 3 because of company. Nobles in troll country might work too, just coz noone else want s to go there, and Khorne should be killing Green & Blue. You could even move the skaven counter out to Kislev so Rat goes away..... Anyhoo, speculation is loverly.
I think playing with JUST the expert OWC is actually really fun.
I think mixing them is not a great idea. Mixing them means they stay for too long, meaning that the crushed god does not get the chance to recover.
Mr Body, I would discuss your quite interesting description of Morris Dancing in the sign up thread, . . . But my words are not wanted there. Hmmm ...looks like a giant wall of text with the word "Khorne"
Oh well, why not just read the first two sentences, skip it and ignore me.
Know anyone infamous that is not interesting? Yeah, me neither. I did a google search ...
http://listphobia.com/2011/06/01/10-most-infamous-people-throughout-history/
Their list is Adolf, Genghis, Brutus, Judas, Cain, Osama, Saddam, Jack, Vlad, & Lee Harvey Oswald
I knew all 10 of those names, all have had movies made about them because they were interesting. (And Awful, dont get me wrong)
Khorne - Adolf, Genghis, Cain, Saddam,
Slaan - Vlad, Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack
Tz - Judas, Osama, Brutus
Nurgle - None - A good example of an Infamous Nurgle is Typhoid Mary.
Rat - None - A good example of an Infamous Rat is Julian Assange
Two weeks ago I was researching Genghis.... omg . . . omFg.
Now there is a guy that changed the course of history. And Khorne would be Proud to claim him. The weirdest bit I found was he probably had Red Hair and Green/Blue eyes!
Hey, we are playing a game where the board is made from stretched human skin.
I am just some guy typing about tactics in a board game. I hope I did not post poorly written shit in this thread. I hope I did not annoy or bore you, or contradict myself too much.
Also, I have just realised that most of you have no idea what Morris Dancing is. Funny.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=morris+dancing&docid=4880763062714758&mid=8F41BA1859130C79C3D08F41BA1859130C79C3D0&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1
The thing about Khorne going dial strategy is I think it makes for a boring game, both playing as and against Khorne. Your moves are 90% prescripted. Just plop down one warrior in every region with other guys. The only decision is cards, and those are mostly just when to lock cultists down with hate or move them to you with terror or get a free dial token from rampage. Playing against this strategy is frustrating because Khorne has no choice in who to target; he goes after everyone equally and ends up being kingmaker by inaction.(I
Going with the "2 VP per region" bloodletter upgrade just reinforces this. It's a redundant point mechanic for his usual dial strategy.
I'm not a fan of the expert cards because they're all about restricting what you can do. I prefer variety by opening up more options. There haven't been too many games where everyone wasn't begging for Vermin Outbreak to just go away.