Ok, so my partner that had boosted me was Grimmy. After revealing that I was up to level 3 already in the thread we talked about it in PM. The two suspect people that Grimmy said knew he was linked with me were Smasher and TRV. It obviously made Grimmy a prime target as we basically had a days headstart to hit lvl5 s link.
although there is an earlier vote for you asking yourself to explain things, so i'm sure i'm missing some other parts from the latter half of day 3 as I wasn't really reading anything in this thread at that point and then there was about 200 new replies.
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
edited January 2013
Sigh.
GrimmyTOA January 22
Hey. Re: Phallona and special abilities.
I'm sure that there are status effects that can be applied to players (definitely negative, potentially positive). Just if you're collecting info.
TheRoadVirus January 22
This is definitely good to know. Thanks!
May I ask how you came across this knowledge?
GrimmyTOA January 22
Sure. My social link last night gave me the ability to remove status effects from my buddy (unfortunately, only my buddy).
TheRoadVirus January 22
OH DERP. Hahahaha. Mine did too and I didn't even put two and two together.
Jesus I need some coffee
GrimmyTOA January 22
Hah -- that's amazing.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Now I sound fishy as hell.
SO! I am a fire elemental guy, and am looking for people to share info with. Would you be willing to tell me what element you are aligned with?
GrimmyTOA January 22
That would be my Arcana, or... ?
TheRoadVirus January 22
I'm bad at terminology. I am fire, and my secondary attack is fire based.
So if you feel comfortable sharing both of your whatevers (not weakness!) we can share!
GrimmyTOA January 22
Ah, fair enough. Yeah, I won't be telling anyone my weakness, but I'm a Lover and my secondary attack is Sonic.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Sound? Or Hedgehog?
GrimmyTOA January 22
That would be so great if I could wander around firing spiny red-shod mammals at people.
Unfortunately, it's Sound. I am sad now.
This is us talking about making a phalla. Read if you want!
TheRoadVirus January 22
Hit someone and make gold rings fly out of them. Collect them as XP.
Brb, writing down phalla ideas.
I want to make a super smash phalla. Like, a lot now.
GrimmyTOA January 22
Sweet. I'd play.
TheRoadVirus January 22
I'd need to write everything up, but I think it could be a pretty fun mini.
Not sure how I'd break the playerbase down.
Maybe give everyone a certain % of damage they have to stay below or they die to the next hit?
And different characters can do different %s of damage
and then you have randomly spawning item containers that you can try to open yourself (chance of explosion!) or you can pick up and throw at someone else. If you hit them with it, they take x% damage, but get the item inside if they survive the night.
GrimmyTOA January 22
People could set their own stats a bit to represent different characters (or choose a character when they sign up, maybe). Bowser would be slow (his attacks go second) but weigh a ton (he can take more damage before he hits his threshold).
How do you decide who gets to the item containers first? The battleground could have three levels and init determines order of action....
TheRoadVirus January 22
I'm not sure. Was thinking maybe there can be three different stages that everyone is fighting on, and as people are killed, stages close off?
Maybe let people choose what they want to do. Everyone gets two actions a night.
Move to another stage: takes both actions
search - higher chance to find item containers
attack - normal at full initiative, 1.5x attack at half initiative
dodge - 25% dodge chance? always takes place first
GrimmyTOA January 22
I like it a lot. You'd have to watch for people just going full survival (high init, move a lot, dodge when necessary) but if you make stage transfer happen after all other actions they won't be able to just hop around indefinitely.
Maybe up dodge's chance a bit to compensate.
How about an area attack? Hit those around you at 25% strength each, happens last.
You could do preset stat blocks:
kime signs up and chooses Princess Peach. He then finds out that she's Init: 5, Str: 2, DamLim: 3, representing someone quick but relatively weak and fragile. She gets a permanent +20% to dodge, representing her ability to float above the battlefield on her little umbrella.
GrimmyTOA January 22
Mafianess would have to be a separate layer RNG'd over the characters in that case. Alternately, you could do it blind and have Bowser et al be the mafia.
I just sort of like the idea of people rushing to sign up so that they don't get stuck with someone terrible.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Ok this is a thing that needs to happen. You wanna help me set it up?
It would mean you wouldn't be able to play, sadly. But I like the way you think.
I need to add this to my list of phallas I want to do. The other I'm kicking around is an ongoing series that follows the discovery, landing, transformation, and growth of a new planet after Earth goes bye bye.
GrimmyTOA January 22
I'd love to help. I.. uh... I also really like the sound of that Landphall on New Earth series a lot.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Saber and I were working on that one together and it sort of petered out a bit. So I'm not sure if that's one we will pick up or if I'll work on that one solo or not. I think it would be a lot of fun either way. It'll be like Obi's with a bunch of the surviving characters living on through the story and such, but it won't have any existing universe to tie it to, so I think there will be a lot more freedom as far as the storyline goes.
I need to make a word document of all of these things. I keep having ideas I want to fire off at people, and then forget them. I had a borderlands phalla in my head but I forgot most of it. It sounded fun too haha
GrimmyTOA January 22
Well, he's listening in now (maybe we should slough off the other discussion). I've been mulling over a Phalla of Earthsea in my head. There's got to be a way to leverage the idea of True Names in the phalla setting.
TheRoadVirus January 22
He said we would talk about it after the phalla was over hehe. I'm not trying to move around behind his back or nothin'!
Still throwing my brainthinks onto a word document now so afterwards I can be like HEY LOOK WHATCHA THINK?
And if he doesn't like it, then I can make my own phalla! With blackjack! And hookers!
GrimmyTOA January 22
I just meant because they're a) likely getting flooded with PMs anyway and b) might want to play so they don't want to know all of our secrets. If we're going to keep talking Super Phalla Brothers Melee we should stop pestering SOE and INANTP about it.
TheRoadVirus January 22
SO who is striking you as mafia this game?
GrimmyTOA January 22
---REDACTED---, always.
---REDACTED--- was apparently helping to organize a hit squad last night -- which seems out of character for someone who has played as much Phalla as him. The people he was working with (or at least the one who approached me about it) are relatively unpracticed, so... I don't know. It's sticking with me a bit.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Hmm that is a bit suspicious
GrimmyTOA January 22
Yeah, I think it's just something to keep an eye on for now, but if things get tight he's where I'll likely be putting my vote.
So yeah, if you can tell me where in there he told me who he was linked with, that'd be super.
Why is 38thDoe and TheRoadVirus having secret fantasies about me? Is this something that happens often which I am just now finding out about?
Who doesn't have secret fantasies about you?
Well I'm not really sure on that one. But I always figured the fantasies involved me dying in some gruesome way. Especially by that person living with me.
Why is 38thDoe and TheRoadVirus having secret fantasies about me? Is this something that happens often which I am just now finding out about?
Who doesn't have secret fantasies about you?
Well I'm not really sure on that one. But I always figured the fantasies involved me dying in some gruesome way. Especially by that person living with me.
We weren't planning on summoning you. Just wanted the bitchin' rings. Earth or water are probably best. Fire has limited utility.
Why is 38thDoe and TheRoadVirus having secret fantasies about me? Is this something that happens often which I am just now finding out about?
Who doesn't have secret fantasies about you?
Well I'm not really sure on that one. But I always figured the fantasies involved me dying in some gruesome way. Especially by that person living with me.
We weren't planning on summoning you. Just wanted the bitchin' rings. Earth or water are probably best. Fire has limited utility.
I guess that means I have limited utility. :winky:
So why would Grimmy tell Bradicus that you knew they were linked, TRV?
Your guess is as good as mine on that one. I wish to have some words with him after the game, because that's straight liartown business right there.
Is this necessarily the case? Why do we assume Bradicus was telling the truth? Why did the mafia kill his partner rather than him?
Right, that's what's really sticking out for me here. If the mafia wanted to knock down an S-link that was further along than most others, they could have just taken down Bradicus. But Bradicus mentioned that it was his partner that had the boosting ability, not him, so the fact that Grimmy ended up dying leads me to believe that the mafia had inside knowledge of their link. And supposedly, the only two people who knew were a now-dead innocent and TRV.
Might not be a terrible idea to make sure that both TRV _and_ Bradicus go down tonight. It seems awfully likely that one or the other of them is mafia.
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
I am pretty sure I'm dead either way tonight, but I'd really rather the mafia have to waste abilities killing me as opposed to the village wasting the vote, which is why I asked that we vote somewhere else.
I know that probably sounds suspicious or whatever, and I'd probably be suspicious of me if the tables were turned.
Anyway, these are the folk that I find suspicious at the moment:
38thDoe - Due to previously cleared up stuff. I feel with his wording, he was intentionally misleading you guys and painting me in a bad light.
Bradicus - Due to previously cleared up stuff. I think he is trying to push focus onto a (rather easy at this point) scapegoat, which would buy the mafia time to do whatever noodling they're doing. It's his word against mine at this point, but I've given you all the evidence I have to support my case.
ObiFett - He hasn't contacted me. It's not much, but it's unusual for him.
Retaba - Also hasn't contacted me save for a quick PM, and has been rather quiet as far as I can tell.
Might not be a terrible idea to make sure that both TRV _and_ Bradicus go down tonight. It seems awfully likely that one or the other of them is mafia.
Please do. If it will help to steer the conversation in a more productive direction tomorrow, I am totally willing to die for that.
so you're suggesting bradicus is the mafia and wasted grimmys time slinking with him then killed him off before he could find out the truth?
That's a possibility considering that a max level social link might be similar to MrT and I's ability to know each other's identities (in this case we are masons).
I'm going to out Bradicus for him, don't think it is a useful enough power to not do something the way things are swinging.
Bradicus was able to maintain 2 social links at the same time, but not advance both past lvl 1 or something like that.
Now I was able to S link successfully day 1 with him and Grimmy was as well since they were telling us what power they were getting from teh boost ahead of everyone else.
This seems like a really weird power for a shadow to have-not saying it's impossible but just sorta odd since it would allow them to be even more deceiving.
Now I don't know if Grimmy ever acknowledged there S linking, I think we just learned about it after his death-someone else can probably back this up.
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Known Social Link effects:
Level 1 : Remove status affects. Seems like mafia are the only ones who cause status affects, so this ability is only helpful to the village
Level 2: Attack Bonus. This ability is great for mafia
Level 3: One way buddy Busdriver? Only helps mafia if they can get their buddy to take their hits.♣
Level 4: ??
Level 5: Mason??? Obviously bad for the mafia♠
♣Right now only confirmed by Bradicus
♠Right now only guessed by Mrt & Mi-go
*If* the mafia actually get the same effects from linking, then it would seem like to be most efficient mafia would want to link up to level 2+ with someone and try and coordinate attacks on villagers, and then stop their link sometime before level 5.
Mafia already are hard to track down using the mechanics, maintaining 2 S links with villagers would make it impossible to catch him. Also don't know why he would have warned me that I couldn't S link past lvl 1 with him if he was also linking with Grimmy and told me to find a new partner.
Unless I've just been linking with mafia all game-that would suck.
PSN SeGaTai
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mi-go hunterOnce again I'm back in the lab.Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered Userregular
PM me if you need an s link, someone doesn't have a buddy right now.
If Bradicus was a 2 for 1 SLinker, then there either has to be a second one, or somebody got left in the cold (or the second link of the 2 for 1 was not used). Do we know if someone never linked on day 1?
Sega is absolutely correct in this. I'm some sort of a chatty kathy at high school. The reason I was announcing earlier in the thread that I needed a new partner was that I had just found out that my second s link partner could only reach level 1. It was like 30 minutes to vote close and I felt like poop leaving sega high and dry so I attempted to find him a new partner. The plan of a true evil mastermind
Baidol, Gdon
Langly, Yamatano-Orochi
Heffling, Lachesis Gandalf_the_Crazed, Orthrus
jdarksun, Mothman
Megafrost, Throne
Xenogears of Bore, Ganga NeoToma, Sylph GrimmyTOA, Cybele Smasher, Ose
The_Anonymous, Jack Frost Stever777, Thoth
Munkus Beaver, Orobas - Christa Marley
Malkor, Nidhoggr - A Shadow Rawkking Goodguy, Slime - Richard Duncan Infidel, Dominion - a shadow
Enlightenedbum, Belial - Mr. John Gerstmann
So the non vanillagers all have the format:
[Forum Name], [type?] - [Game Name]
With two of the mafia having the format:
[Forum Name], [type?] - A Shadow
One of the green names REALLY looks like it belongs in the red name list. Can someone with more knowledge about Persona explain what Orobas is and why its different from Nidhoggr, Slime, and Dominion, and therefore is likely not a thrall?
Determining wether or not Munkus was a Thrall could go a long way towards vote analysis.
It was. I didn't notice it until I actually tried to go to level 2 with Sega. I found him another partner and I went partner-less that night. The next night it was to be me and someone else who I did manage to link with.
"One of the 72 demons of the Goetia. He appears as a horse and answers questions of the past, present, and future. He is faithful to his conjurer."
—Compendium Info
Orobas (オロバス, Orobasu) is a Level 8 Persona of the Magician Arcana.
It can be obtained from Shuffle Time in the Midnight Channel dungeon Yukiko's Castle and Steamy Bathhouse
Orobas inherits "Fire" skills from other Personas in Fusion.
Posts
actually I believe this is what started your votes?
although there is an earlier vote for you asking yourself to explain things, so i'm sure i'm missing some other parts from the latter half of day 3 as I wasn't really reading anything in this thread at that point and then there was about 200 new replies.
Steam
Hey. Re: Phallona and special abilities.
I'm sure that there are status effects that can be applied to players (definitely negative, potentially positive). Just if you're collecting info.
TheRoadVirus January 22
This is definitely good to know. Thanks!
May I ask how you came across this knowledge?
GrimmyTOA January 22
Sure. My social link last night gave me the ability to remove status effects from my buddy (unfortunately, only my buddy).
TheRoadVirus January 22
OH DERP. Hahahaha. Mine did too and I didn't even put two and two together.
Jesus I need some coffee
GrimmyTOA January 22
Hah -- that's amazing.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Now I sound fishy as hell.
SO! I am a fire elemental guy, and am looking for people to share info with. Would you be willing to tell me what element you are aligned with?
GrimmyTOA January 22
That would be my Arcana, or... ?
TheRoadVirus January 22
I'm bad at terminology. I am fire, and my secondary attack is fire based.
So if you feel comfortable sharing both of your whatevers (not weakness!) we can share!
GrimmyTOA January 22
Ah, fair enough. Yeah, I won't be telling anyone my weakness, but I'm a Lover and my secondary attack is Sonic.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Sound? Or Hedgehog?
GrimmyTOA January 22
That would be so great if I could wander around firing spiny red-shod mammals at people.
Unfortunately, it's Sound. I am sad now.
This is us talking about making a phalla. Read if you want!
Hit someone and make gold rings fly out of them. Collect them as XP.
Brb, writing down phalla ideas.
I want to make a super smash phalla. Like, a lot now.
GrimmyTOA January 22
Sweet. I'd play.
TheRoadVirus January 22
I'd need to write everything up, but I think it could be a pretty fun mini.
Not sure how I'd break the playerbase down.
Maybe give everyone a certain % of damage they have to stay below or they die to the next hit?
And different characters can do different %s of damage
and then you have randomly spawning item containers that you can try to open yourself (chance of explosion!) or you can pick up and throw at someone else. If you hit them with it, they take x% damage, but get the item inside if they survive the night.
GrimmyTOA January 22
People could set their own stats a bit to represent different characters (or choose a character when they sign up, maybe). Bowser would be slow (his attacks go second) but weigh a ton (he can take more damage before he hits his threshold).
How do you decide who gets to the item containers first? The battleground could have three levels and init determines order of action....
TheRoadVirus January 22
I'm not sure. Was thinking maybe there can be three different stages that everyone is fighting on, and as people are killed, stages close off?
Maybe let people choose what they want to do. Everyone gets two actions a night.
Move to another stage: takes both actions
search - higher chance to find item containers
attack - normal at full initiative, 1.5x attack at half initiative
dodge - 25% dodge chance? always takes place first
GrimmyTOA January 22
I like it a lot. You'd have to watch for people just going full survival (high init, move a lot, dodge when necessary) but if you make stage transfer happen after all other actions they won't be able to just hop around indefinitely.
Maybe up dodge's chance a bit to compensate.
How about an area attack? Hit those around you at 25% strength each, happens last.
You could do preset stat blocks:
kime signs up and chooses Princess Peach. He then finds out that she's Init: 5, Str: 2, DamLim: 3, representing someone quick but relatively weak and fragile. She gets a permanent +20% to dodge, representing her ability to float above the battlefield on her little umbrella.
GrimmyTOA January 22
Mafianess would have to be a separate layer RNG'd over the characters in that case. Alternately, you could do it blind and have Bowser et al be the mafia.
I just sort of like the idea of people rushing to sign up so that they don't get stuck with someone terrible.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Ok this is a thing that needs to happen. You wanna help me set it up?
It would mean you wouldn't be able to play, sadly. But I like the way you think.
I need to add this to my list of phallas I want to do. The other I'm kicking around is an ongoing series that follows the discovery, landing, transformation, and growth of a new planet after Earth goes bye bye.
GrimmyTOA January 22
I'd love to help. I.. uh... I also really like the sound of that Landphall on New Earth series a lot.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Saber and I were working on that one together and it sort of petered out a bit. So I'm not sure if that's one we will pick up or if I'll work on that one solo or not. I think it would be a lot of fun either way. It'll be like Obi's with a bunch of the surviving characters living on through the story and such, but it won't have any existing universe to tie it to, so I think there will be a lot more freedom as far as the storyline goes.
I need to make a word document of all of these things. I keep having ideas I want to fire off at people, and then forget them. I had a borderlands phalla in my head but I forgot most of it. It sounded fun too haha
GrimmyTOA January 22
Well, he's listening in now (maybe we should slough off the other discussion). I've been mulling over a Phalla of Earthsea in my head. There's got to be a way to leverage the idea of True Names in the phalla setting.
TheRoadVirus January 22
He said we would talk about it after the phalla was over hehe. I'm not trying to move around behind his back or nothin'!
Still throwing my brainthinks onto a word document now so afterwards I can be like HEY LOOK WHATCHA THINK?
And if he doesn't like it, then I can make my own phalla! With blackjack! And hookers!
GrimmyTOA January 22
I just meant because they're a) likely getting flooded with PMs anyway and b) might want to play so they don't want to know all of our secrets. If we're going to keep talking Super Phalla Brothers Melee we should stop pestering SOE and INANTP about it.
SO who is striking you as mafia this game?
GrimmyTOA January 22
---REDACTED---, always.
---REDACTED--- was apparently helping to organize a hit squad last night -- which seems out of character for someone who has played as much Phalla as him. The people he was working with (or at least the one who approached me about it) are relatively unpracticed, so... I don't know. It's sticking with me a bit.
TheRoadVirus January 22
Hmm that is a bit suspicious
GrimmyTOA January 22
Yeah, I think it's just something to keep an eye on for now, but if things get tight he's where I'll likely be putting my vote.
So yeah, if you can tell me where in there he told me who he was linked with, that'd be super.
What an amazing contribution.
Well I'm not really sure on that one. But I always figured the fantasies involved me dying in some gruesome way. Especially by that person living with me.
We weren't planning on summoning you. Just wanted the bitchin' rings. Earth or water are probably best. Fire has limited utility.
I still like cheez!
ooooooooOOOOOOOOOOooooooo
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
Your guess is as good as mine on that one. I wish to have some words with him after the game, because that's straight liartown business right there.
Is this necessarily the case? Why do we assume Bradicus was telling the truth? Why did the mafia kill his partner rather than him?
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I guess that means I have limited utility. :winky:
Right, that's what's really sticking out for me here. If the mafia wanted to knock down an S-link that was further along than most others, they could have just taken down Bradicus. But Bradicus mentioned that it was his partner that had the boosting ability, not him, so the fact that Grimmy ended up dying leads me to believe that the mafia had inside knowledge of their link. And supposedly, the only two people who knew were a now-dead innocent and TRV.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I know that probably sounds suspicious or whatever, and I'd probably be suspicious of me if the tables were turned.
Anyway, these are the folk that I find suspicious at the moment:
38thDoe - Due to previously cleared up stuff. I feel with his wording, he was intentionally misleading you guys and painting me in a bad light.
Bradicus - Due to previously cleared up stuff. I think he is trying to push focus onto a (rather easy at this point) scapegoat, which would buy the mafia time to do whatever noodling they're doing. It's his word against mine at this point, but I've given you all the evidence I have to support my case.
ObiFett - He hasn't contacted me. It's not much, but it's unusual for him.
Retaba - Also hasn't contacted me save for a quick PM, and has been rather quiet as far as I can tell.
Not to mention we can't really confirm that's what Grimmy said because... well... he's dead.
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
I am a magician arcana, I am strong to fire and weak to ice.
Standard village wincon
Steam
That's a possibility considering that a max level social link might be similar to MrT and I's ability to know each other's identities (in this case we are masons).
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
Pretty much.
Ok, Let's find out what the people think: Bradicus
Some other time, CesareB...
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
Bradicus was able to maintain 2 social links at the same time, but not advance both past lvl 1 or something like that.
Now I was able to S link successfully day 1 with him and Grimmy was as well since they were telling us what power they were getting from teh boost ahead of everyone else.
This seems like a really weird power for a shadow to have-not saying it's impossible but just sorta odd since it would allow them to be even more deceiving.
Now I don't know if Grimmy ever acknowledged there S linking, I think we just learned about it after his death-someone else can probably back this up.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Level 1 : Remove status affects. Seems like mafia are the only ones who cause status affects, so this ability is only helpful to the village
Level 2: Attack Bonus. This ability is great for mafia
Level 3: One way buddy Busdriver? Only helps mafia if they can get their buddy to take their hits.♣
Level 4: ??
Level 5: Mason??? Obviously bad for the mafia♠
♣Right now only confirmed by Bradicus
♠Right now only guessed by Mrt & Mi-go
*If* the mafia actually get the same effects from linking, then it would seem like to be most efficient mafia would want to link up to level 2+ with someone and try and coordinate attacks on villagers, and then stop their link sometime before level 5.
Unless I've just been linking with mafia all game-that would suck.
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I still think Infidel put Assuran's name out there knowing he was about to die red in hopes it would help his mafia buddy.
Can we talk about this:
So the non vanillagers all have the format:
[Forum Name], [type?] - [Game Name]
With two of the mafia having the format:
[Forum Name], [type?] - A Shadow
One of the green names REALLY looks like it belongs in the red name list. Can someone with more knowledge about Persona explain what Orobas is and why its different from Nidhoggr, Slime, and Dominion, and therefore is likely not a thrall?
Determining wether or not Munkus was a Thrall could go a long way towards vote analysis.